Hi, i am a 4th year art student and i have a 6000-7000 word essay to write by january. i'm writing it on shoujo manga, and would be interested in your thoughts. im interested in the growth in popularity of manga in the west, and how manga in particular fills the niche of female readers. go into easons, dubray etc, and there will be a manga section. this was unseen until about 4 years ago. i have also noticed in my local easons, that aout 80% of their stock is aimed towards girls. comics in the west are generally geared toward teenage males. do u think manga is filling the gap for female readers?? this is just one area im interested in. if anybody has any other thoughts, please share them here!! =3

Hi, meztrait. I hope you don't mind, but I think I'm going to move your topic to the Comic Discussion section. You'll probably get a better response from people there.

That's a good question. I think manga does get people into comics that wouldn't be into comics otherwise. That being said I think that it has some role in bridging the gender gap but it's not the only thing in comics that does. I've met a few girls that were into artists like Dan Clowes, John Porcilino, Art Speigleman and Neil Gaiman. I'd say that a lot of manga is aimed at girls too, I don't know if 80% is accurate in the US because a lot of it is aimed at boys too. At least here it seems like a pretty even split.

What I like:
- the hot girls. I don't care if the story is crap. I like looking at the nice girls (unless they're a) too thin b) look underage). lol!

- sometimes, the plot is something that gets me in. I'm not normally a fan of "love stories" but there's always gonna be exceptions.

- Some of these cliches I like:
http://www.fenya.net/retarded/retardedshoujo.html [fenya.net]


What I don't like:
- I get bored after awhile because most of these comics are usually full of talk talk talk and more talk. Very little action (if ever).

- Its just girly stuff basically and its not really the stuff I'm interested in. No offense if you like that stuff. I respect whatever you like.

- Some of these cliches I don't like:
http://www.fenya.net/retarded/retardedshoujo.html [fenya.net]

In general, I'd say manga has definitely widened the market for comics, especially shoujo manga which has introduced many teen and pre-teen girls to the medium.

The interesting aspect to me is how little crossover there still is. There are always exceptions but, in the main, someone who begins reading Western style comics doesn't tend to become a fan of manga and someone who begins by reading manga doesn't move on to Western comics.

They're like two different styles of music with the fans of each automatically assuming the other is inferior. Fans of manga will criticise US mainstream output for its muscle-bound heroes and scantily clad heroines, all fighting with unnatural super powers. Similarly, fans of US comics will criticise manga's effeminate heroes and underage heroines all fighting with swords or wielding arcane magic.

The similarities are not far beneath the surface but the majority of the fans seem determined to stay in completely separate camps.

hi everyone again, thanx for adding your comments here. it's really intereting to get some debate going here.

Someone
I'd say that a lot of manga is aimed at girls too, I don't know if 80% is accurate in the US because a lot of it is aimed at boys too. At least here it seems like a pretty even split.

it's sbout 80% in my local easons, however they only sell tokyopop titles. there was a convention there last year where the guy running it was talking about tp's 2 biggest tittles, 'fruits Basket' and 'Battle Royal', fb just barely outselling its shounen rival but it's about even in the actual comic shops, like subcity and forbidden planet.

im sure anyone who reads comics will begin to see patterns in stories, and similarities. but there is always afew gems hidden inside. 2 titles i've read recently that are shoujo, are' loveless' and 'bitter virgin'. i've never read anything like b4 in my life, and i would recommend them. again they might not be for everyone, especially with loveless, as it's full of you bishounen, and is also a shotacon manga.(young boy complex) but, if u can see past that it's something else.

Someone
They're like two different styles of music with the fans of each automatically assuming the other is inferior. Fans of manga will criticise US mainstream output for its muscle-bound heroes and scantily clad heroines, all fighting with unnatural super powers. Similarly, fans of US comics will criticise manga's effeminate heroes and underage heroines all fighting with swords or wielding arcane magic.

i have noticed this myself. i personally, really do not like like western comics, yrt it's what i grew up with. batman and the x-men were childhood favourties of mine, but i simply grew out of them. also i wante to rea more than just hero fighting etc. because manga just had more variety for me and i prefer the art. but that brings me to my next issue. how do people stay interested in the comics they read? fans of western comics will have to help out here. i know for manga with its various publishing magazines will have sister mags for older/younger readers. josei and seinen are geared toward adult readers, but would one have to be reading from an early age. do you know anyone who would start reaing a comic if they were 25+? also if anyoe else woul like to post titles of comics or manga they fell have good merit, and are worthwhile. we could get some discussion going too!

I read mostly shonen comics, but the few shojo comics I read are my favorites.

I really loved Please Save My Earth and Guru Guru Ponchan.

I think the thing I liked about them is they had something unique in the story that pulled me in. PSME has a lot of scifi, past lives, and a lot of interesting back story. GGP was about a dog girl.

There has been shojo series that I grew tired of which were Fruits Basket and Kare Kano. It got really angsty to the point that it was just stupid. In FB I hated the horse girl. She was a drama queen and her back story didn't make any sense. It didn't have the funny animal transformation stuff any more.

In KK I didn't like Aruma's terrible past, the past that made him dark and evil and stuff. Even though not really at all. Ahhh!

I think with shojo it can be harder to find a good shojo manga series. In shonen, seeing a boy or man kick some butt with weird powers is really entertaining for a story. In shojo it's harder to relate to a meek/ditzy/lovey dovey/oblivious Japanese school girl. Second, school setting stories can be bland. I like seeing people go on an adventure away from school and home.

*coughcoughcough*

Erm. Since I'm a girl (biologically) I tend to like this genre as well. But don't get me wrong. I only like this genre because...

I like how they would discuss about love and all those idiotic, mushy girly-girl stuffs...

And the way that would make ordinary guys puke. ;D

But I hate most of the stories from the Shojou genre. I only liked Karekano and Boys over Flowers because it was slightly refreshing. Oh and Bitter Virgin too 8D

I avoid 'harem' shows though, like Clannad and the likes...

Shoujo manga can be good... just add ketchup :D

The only one that I recall reading at the moment (as in I know I have read more, but with the amount of things I try to read and my short memory I don't remember) is X... thus the ketchup comment :)

As a biological girl that grew up on fantasy novels and has only shifted to graphic style story-telling in the last half dozen years or so, shoujo manga can be OK. It's a little rarer to find good shoujo manga than graphic-novels-in-general (at least in my experience) almost entirely because I'm picky about the plots not being too cliche and the dialog making sense. (I don't care if it is translated from Japanese! Pay attention to what you're writing!) And if you don't narrow your choices down to just shoujo, you can find a decent array of interesting, experimental stuff stuck in odd corners in most comic book shops. Or behind the counter, on recommendation of the most eccentric clerks.

I'm not quite sure if I'd rather have badly cliche shoujo or old fashioned western comicbook hero. Shoujo can get very gag-worthy at times, but is often pretty. Western stereotype heroes are just as likely to be mindnumbingly boring, but are occasionally (accidentally) hilarious. (Spent more than one afternoon going through my Uncle's old comics giggling with friends.) But even "mainstream" superheros aren't often all that cliche anymore, from what I've seen. I still prefer to take my chances with a good, "Well, I've read it twice and I'm still not sure what the genre should be" book, but modern superheros are better than old ones, even if they lack their predecessor's hand-inked charm. Maybe shoujo isn't as cliched as I think of it? Or will change soon?

As far as art goes, I love it all. Really. Regardless of genre, well drawn art is fascinating. I can be pulled into quite a few things I wouldn't otherwise touch by good enough art.

Although, I wouldn't be able to tell you about "filling the gap" for female readers, I've never had a shortage of good stuff to read. On the contrary, I don't have anywhere near enough time to read everything I want to! Guess I'm just a freak, eh? Or maybe this "gap" isn't as big as it is perceived to be. (Perceived by both girls who don't read comics and people who make/market comics?)

Hope that made at least some sense. Good luck with your paper.

Manga definately has a wider appeal than "mainstream" american comics (i put mainstream in quotes because what the comic industry considers mainstream is ridiculous by normal standards) but only because of two reasons, IMO:

1. Its a very exciting and seductive style, and

2. It offers more ranges of story types.

However, while manga has more story types, those stories often fall into the same problems that american comics have...its essentially the same story over and over again. both in shojo and shonen. it may be different names, or different faces, and maybe a plot twist thrown in, but there has not been anything really revolutionary in mainstream manga for a long time *i say this because there are alot of good indy manga artists*

if you look at shonen...everything is, in a way, a regurgitation of dragonball z, which in itself was supposed to be a parody of the tough guy manga and instead became what it was making fun of.

in shojo, i havent read enough of it to know what the first one is, i have just read enough shojo stories to see that they do appear very similar.

while there is the odd manga about sports, or driving, or teaching (!), the majority of whats on the shelf when i go to barnes and nobles is the same thing as american comics; except instead of batman and superman, its naruto and one piece. same kool-aid, different flavor.

This is about shonen, because shoujo has no American equivalent:

While manga is indeed remixes of the same story formulas just like comics, it does the most important thing right: It repackages the story formulas in new faces, new settings, and new conflicts.

American comics makes the mistake of thinking that the same characters for 50 years is somehow interesting to readers.

The Asian novel Journey To The West is classic and ubiquitous. The American novel The Wizard Of Oz is classic and ubiquitous. But am I still reading about Monkey King and Dorothy? No, I'm reading different stories remixing the same formulas. DBZ was a global phenom. Are there still comics coming out about an immortal never-aging Goku? No. It's done. New stories with the same formula take over.

So why do they think ppl still want to read about Spiderman/Batman/etc? They're part of the cultural consciousness but it doesn't mean neverending stories about them every single month is still profitable/interesting.

mlai
So why do they think ppl still want to read about Spiderman/Batman/etc? They're part of the cultural consciousness but it doesn't mean neverending stories about them every single month is still profitable/interesting.

i was almost about to agree with this whole post until this paragraph. the sad part is, there is that comic readership that is still so tightly wrapped up int heir spiderman blankets that they really are satisfied with reading those stories over and over for the rest of their lives. even will eisner once said that he didnt pick up the spirit again after he came back from drawing for the military because he didnt think people would still want to read those stories.

and sadly, spiderman and batman ARE profitable.