Okay inspired by the steps to webcomic execution thread, this one is for the writing process, perhaps it may help some people who find it difficult. Dunno if this might be better in tips and tricks... guess it depends on how useful it is to people.


The initial gestation can come from anything for me, often I watch or read something that leaves me wanting more. Maybe a film that doesn't live up to my expectations or a story that inspires me but makes me think what if they did it another way.
Sometimes I will joke about something down the pub and the idea will stick. Sometimes I play with something very simple and the idea expands as thinking the possibilities.

Whatever the initial idea is I mull it over but I usually begin with a vague concept rather than a character. So Malefic was demonic apocalypse and the world changing. The hero factor was very simple, a super hero talent show. The platform (which is still being written) came out of a very serious conversation and the person I had the conversation is almost a co author on that.
I often think of the odd key scene and work out how to get the story to that point, if the I can't make it work I mull it over for another few days/weeks.

Once I have the basic idea partially fleshed out I think about core characters, or roles they will fill and how their personal journey may play out.

After the key characters are in place, or mostly in place I work out how they will feel/react to the situation. This can greatly affect how things play out and open new ideas.

When it comes to actually writing the script.
Well I don't do this that often, initially with Malefic and currently with underbelly I started drawing at this point and work it from there. One of the reasons there are a few typos on them.

I don't recommend this unless you have a really good feel for your story and characters. I started a comic called Elsewhere like this and quickly stalled, I still plan to do the comic but the idea has expended so much since then I'm glad I pulled it.

Script writing.
Currently none of the comics I put out scripts done to this level but I have several in the works for when I wrap some of them up. This is the process I am using on The platform, Equivocate and Elsewhere.

I decide on an opening scene and the general flow of the story then start writing the bare bones of a chapter.
some scenes get more thoroughly described than others and the dialogue is very formal, with little thought to the subtleties.
Once I have the chapter done I go through it and cut down the scenes and add a little more description where needed.
Once happy with the structure I then go back and work the dialogue and descriptions.

From there it is all fine tuning and rewrites until I am 100% happy with it.

This sounds really involved and time consuming, I guess some of it is, but I do it gradually and very spaced out. I often let ideas simmer for weeks or months before writing a word.

I guess I have mentioned two processes, one is the "get it done method" I use one what I have going out at the moment. This has been very useful to get me started and learn what works and what doesn't. The second is what many might consider a more sensible approach.


Over to you.

I basically have an "idea book". It is a small journal that I keep at my desk for jotting down ideas that come to mind. Rarely are they fleshed out, the format is usually:

(idea name)
(log line/premise)
(bullet points

So:
Books
"MC lives in an alternate world where books are banned thanks to the influential novel __*title pending*, which shaped the ideas of the western world like darwin and silent spring."
-MC meets author?
-MC supposed to hunt down librarians?
-Herpy Derpy?

I usually put 3-4 per page and have a bout a hundred. XP

After I pick one that doesn't seem too long or hard to end i jot down all the story and dialog ideas in a 25c notebook, with panels and page ideas. (this is soooo chaotic to look at @_@ You'd think i was deciphering some Egyptian code)

Then after that i pick up another 25c notebook and start thumbnails.

I struggle with the writing part, if I'm honest, but I love to tell my own stories, so I have a massive fight with the writing stage! xD

My initial ideas usually come from dreams, or from things I see/read.

Then I have the struggle of developing the tiny bit of plot I have into a fully fleshed plot. To do this I tend to mull it over, ask my sister for help (she wants to be an author, so she is a great help!), or wait til I have another dream that links into the previous idea nicely.

Once I have a fully fleshed plot, I try to develop the characters. I only decide their personalities at the writing stage; their appearance is of no consequence at that point.

After that, I work from my basic plotline (which is usually written as a few paragraphs depending on the story length) and break it down into bullet points which also flesh out the story even more, detailing key events.

From these bullet points I start scripting. The scripting takes the longest, usually, but it is also a lot easier than actually coming up with the ideas!

Just talking about Used Books, specifically, but I tend to do this kind of thing for all my story projects too.

I guess I'm really haphazard and backwards.

Usually, I envision a scene or a conversation, inspired by whatever (life, a dream, a movie), some piece of intense action or drama or just amusing/inspiring. The whole thing will come to me in vivid detail, and I'll write it down as I see it before the idea has a chance to escape or get corrupted. I have dozens of scripts just sitting around with no plot surrounding them. I try to keep them somewhat organized in folders, but I do lose them sometimes and have to reinvent.

In addition to those, I work on a framework for future plotlines. I have a variety of good "episodes" in mind, and I'll write titles or short descriptions on a brainstorming page. Then I'll try to put them in order like a one-dimensional puzzle. Which plots should happen before others? How can this lead to that? What else must I insert to make a good story that flows naturally. My vivid scene ideas usually fit in somewhere or inspire the idea for a chapter. I'll have the framework planned out months or years ahead of time.

Then I set to writing scripts in order from scratch. I just start at the beginning and take it where it flows connecting dots in a way. I insert my inspired scenes where they belong. I tweak them to fit. I usually have a full script for many chapters well in advance of actual execution. I write everything in script format with a focus on dialogue. I always think in dialogue. I add notes about motivation/emotion to remind myself where needed as well. Only particularly important or visual scenes have actions/visual descriptions.

When I sit down to work on a chapter, I rewrite, sometimes sections, sometimes entirely. Having had time away and a fresh eye, sometimes drastic changes must be made. These do occasionally alter the direction of future plot and I have to rework either the whole frame work or future scenes. Sometimes I'll rewrite those immediately (especially if I get a good idea how to rework them); sometimes I'll wait until I get close in my page-making process. Some scenes are rewritten a dozen times. But the end result usually feels the most natural and often comes after a "eureka" moment (usually stepping away and looking with fresh eyes or asking a friend for their take and getting a completely new slant).

I also rewrite/design individual pages during or after thumbnails and drafts if I'm not "feeling" the moment properly or if my original idea doesn't work well visually.

(For my novels/stories, I follow a similar patchwork/haphazard process. Then I reread and edit the story every time I pick it up again to read. Everything I write is a constant draft all the time. Only with comics do I have a "finalized" form, simply because I have an audience, a schedule, and it's much harder to edit a picture than a word document.)

~~~

Oh, and Used Books, like most of my projects, started with ideas for characters, carefully fleshed out and visualized. The plot concept came second and actually evolved from the pasts and personalities I envisioned for the characters. Much of my plot was also inspired or initiated by characterizations. I write primarily character-driven stories.

~~~

For my comic strip Gelotology, I SHOULD jot down gags when they come to mind, but I'm lazy about it and hope I can recall them from memory at 0th hour just before my update day. :P Usually I have two or three gags in mind, and I pick whichever one I can visualize the clearest.

Basic ideas will usually come from my own life, and I will "enrich" them by using fictional stuff that has impressed/influenced me at some point. Usually, when I write my own comics, I will start with something that's making me very emotional, and most likely frustrates me; something that I can't resolve in life but have to deal with - something I have to express somehow.

The typical situation would be: I've just made an experience that's brought out some deep emotion within me. It has to be a "deep" and basic emotion, because I can't base my comics on shallow emotions, otherwise my motivation will be as fleeting as they are.

Then, when I'm left to my own devices (usually, when I'm walking by myself), dialogue will come to me automatically. It's almost always dialogue - not plot or characters. I think in dialogue form.

The other elements will come together in a complicated way: I'll choose them for accommodating the primary dialogue and the general abstract "idea(s)" which I try to deal with, and they also have to be able to be developed along some sort of plot. But this process is like working on everything at once at the same time, like constructing a building starting from its every corner, building toward the whole, hoping to connect in the middle from multiple starting points.

I'll think about these ideas consciously from time to time, but I won't try to force them; often, my subconscious will come up with great solutions to this problem of connecting seemingly disparate ideas. And the more time I invest into this "subconscious development", the more concise and coherent things will be in the end. My first ideas, even if they work to some degree, will rarely be the best. Latter ideas tend to be more "unifying", accommodating my initial ideas in a better, more coherent way. But these are "connecting ideas", rather than "basic ideas". They build the plot which is supposed to express the basic ideas.

Then I'll eventually write a script which constantly remains under construction. It won't be too detailed; most of the time I'll just write down the dialogues as they come to me, so I won't forget them, along with basic events/actions.

By "enriching them with fictional stuff" I mean that most of what you actually see (or read) in my comics is in some way influenced by fiction. But the basic motivation is my life. For me, fiction can't be the fundamental starting point for it all, but it will always influence the way I express myself.

I've also written some scripts for Heroes Unite & Heroes Alliance, where the approach is completely different. Since these are community projects, my job is coming up with the best way of bringing together different people and their ideas. So, again I'll try to find plot points which are unifying, but in a very different way. I also don't tap too deeply into my own emotions here. I just think about what I'd like to see as a reader, and what would be fun to write, based on what I'm working with. Then I'll write several, very detailed drafts, as these have to be interpreted by several artists. Basically, the details I put into the script (along with reference pictures) have to make sure that the resulting pages are coherent even though several people draw them independently of each other.

If I can get some of my deeper, more abstract ideas to be reflected in these "commissioned scripts", the result will, however, be more satisfying to me than if I can't.

Haha, Genejoke wants a topic in the Quackcast ! :)

It's a good one and well done! Good contributions here, I've read them all.

I'd have to say that elements of what everyone has said here apply to the way I work in some way or another. I concentrate all my efforts onto the one work (Pinky TA), just because. All ideas for cool things that I come up with, I just adapt them to that. I have an idea that it'll make the whole thing richer and denser in the long run.
-If I want to put in something from the present day or the future I can adapt that in by saving it for somewhere down the timeline, like for Pinky's daughter to deal with for example.
-If I want to do a story about a cool African adventure or something like that, I can adapt it into a flashback chapter earlier in the timeline or whatever.
-If I want to do a fantasy collaboration, I'll turn it into a dream sequence!

I like to treat my story like Robert E Howard treated Conan for example: Over the years he'd jump around doing stories from periods all over Conan's life, making them about whatever took his fancy basically, but he'd always have a good idea of the overall timeline.

That makes writing for on thing a lot easier: You don't get bored of it that way because you're not as locked in and restricted. As long as you have a decent idea of the overall timeline and the world you're working in, you can do a lot of stuff within it.

ozoneocean
Haha, Genejoke wants a topic in the Quackcast ! :)

Yup! well sort of. I was going to post something related in the quackcast thred bout this and thought that by starting this thread it might give you something to tlk about.

Mine is alot simpler.

1) Listen to the following radio shows (or similar smaller shows on youtube or blogtalkradio):
- Alex Jones Show
- Coast to Coast AM
- Russ Dizdar Shatter the Darkness
- Richard Syrett Conspiracy show
- Gary Bell Space Man show
- Jeff Rense
- Truthseekers of the Matrix
- Cutting Through the Matrix
- any radio show about hypnosis, psychology, psychics, spirituality (from any religion's perspective), paranormal, etc.

2) Meditate and then draw from something in real life that had an impact on me or something. Real life experiences and/or that of other people Ive talked to are a literal goldmine.

3) Go combine number 1 and number 2. Exaggeration and made up baloney gets thrown in here.

4) Write the damn script.

I've described most of my writing techniques in other threads already. One aspect that I don't think I've mentioned before, though, is how I approach the question of pacing. For this, I like to use what I call the "five-page rule" (for reasons that are about to be made self-evident!)

When I'm planning the script itself, I break it down into twenty-page segments (e.g. chapters or issues etc). I know that once I start the nitty gritty business of actually writing, the segments will probably end up being a page or two longer than 20 pages, but I find that's a useful number for planning purposes.

Then, before I start writing the detailed script for one of the chapters or issues, I break that segment down further into four sequences of five-pages each. Two of those five-page sequences will be primarily action-based and two will be more concerned with exposition, moving the plot forward or allowing for some gentler character development.

Obviously, some of the sequences do end up being a page or two shorter or longer than five pages and there is very often overlap between the two types. (I've said before that I like my action sequences to include some form of plot-relevant dialogue and that I prefer my exposition sequences to contain some kind of movement.) Even so - by actually planning for two action-led sequences every twenty pages - I think it's possible to make even the most pretentious of high-concept stories suitable for a visual medium like comics, while - by planning for the more thoughtful sequences - it's possible to prevent the action from overwhelming the rest of the story.

For me, I find that this "five-page rule" helps me to manage the balance between telling the story and providing a spectacle. ('Cos I happen to think comics should do both!)

Now that is interesting, I might try that. Balancing action/drama and characterization is tricky nd any tips for doing that are always good.

DAJB
I've described most of my writing techniques in other threads already. One aspect that I don't think I've mentioned before, though, is how I approach the question of pacing. For this, I like to use what I call the "five-page rule" (for reasons that are about to be made self-evident!)

When I'm planning the script itself, I break it down into twenty-page segments (e.g. chapters or issues etc). I know that once I start the nitty gritty business of actually writing, the segments will probably end up being a page or two longer than 20 pages, but I find that's a useful number for planning purposes.

Then, before I start writing the detailed script for one of the chapters or issues, I break that segment down further into four sequences of five-pages each. Two of those five-page sequences will be primarily action-based and two will be more concerned with exposition, moving the plot forward or allowing for some gentler character development.

Obviously, some of the sequences do end up being a page or two shorter or longer than five pages and there is very often overlap between the two types. (I've said before that I like my action sequences to include some form of plot-relevant dialogue and that I prefer my exposition sequences to contain some kind of movement.) Even so - by actually planning for two action-led sequences every twenty pages - I think it's possible to make even the most pretentious of high-concept stories suitable for a visual medium like comics, while - by planning for the more thoughtful sequences - it's possible to prevent the action from overwhelming the rest of the story.

For me, I find that this "five-page rule" helps me to manage the balance between telling the story and providing a spectacle. ('Cos I happen to think comics should do both!)

This is a really good method! I could learn something here, I think!

I'm the writer half of a comic pairing.

The way we produce each chapter is similar to the way we plot a series overall and fleshing it out in the ways descried above.

1) We plan out the basic concept- including the ending *first*. Then based on the ending, what plot points we can feasibly include within a typical 19 page chapter.

2) Death and Fairy is a gag filled comic, so I write down all the plot points including jokes- and a rough page count for the artist- so he knows about how much space he has to pace and panel jokes and storytelling.

3) We thumbnail, and that's it.

We usually try to keep under 19 pages as a self imposed rule. It seems like a better (and professional) habit to keep the story under control, no matter how much you want to put an extra page or joke in sometimes.

Wow, I actually had to think about this for a while. I've been writing stories since I was maybe, eight or nine years old so it's like second-nature to me. It was hard to really think back and describe how I work, kind of like how it's hard to describe your own mannerisms.

I get plot ideas, first of all, from everything (almost literally), almost all of which have already been mentioned fml. Clockwork Atrium, for example, came from a comic I read once where everyone had chess-based nicknames. I thought at first it'd be about human chess but it turned out to be about completely unrelated things like shopping and psychics wtf, so I figured "well, thanks for the idea" and ran with it. And everyone thinks it's from Harry Potter fml again.

I've also gotten inspiration from, among others:
-dreams
-standing in line at a checkout behind two fashionable girls and being embarrassed because I was in my boring work uniform
-the name of a specific towel colour we sell at work

The very next thing I do is figure how many characters my cast will need and write down some names. Sometimes I use a random census generator (like this one ) but more often than not I end up refreshing those a lot trying to get a name that doesn't sound fake wtf.

Once I've got a bunch of names brainstormed, I sit down and work out what I want my characters to be like. I'm just going to keep using CA as an example, sure, why not, so for example I wanted my protagonist to be sort of naive and apathetic to what was going on around him, so that he would mature as the story progressed. Once I got basics down for a few characters, I matched up some names, and boom.

The next thing I do, which is kind of weird I guess, is figure out the climax. I don't like making it up as I go along, so I need to have this in sight before I can start building up the rest of the events that lead up to it. I do that next; usually (and this is sort of wrong of me too) I figure out how many chapters I want and write a short sentence about the major events that happen. This is what I wrote for chapter one:

-start with letter; introduce Anita + Lena; D talks to H/L/A

... that's it. Very tiny little blurbs that make little sense to anyone other than myself. Really they're just notes to help myself remember; I know that by D talks to H/L/A, I really mean "this is where I explain the plot to the readers" fml.

Aaaaand then I think. I do a lot of thinking. All the time. Even at work fml. I need to figure out minor events. I need to figure out when to work in character backstories without being cliche or "talky". I need to settle on a good sequence of events. And then even beyond that, I think about the nuances. What's a good way to word this particular concept? What should these people do when talking about such-and-such event? I once choreographed a fight sequence while walking to school.

By this time, I've also started writing the story as prose. Not for anyone to really read or anything, I don't plan on publishing or even really finishing these proses. In some kind of overly-detailed way, it's my first draft of my scripts. This is really my last step; I use the prose as a reference to thumbnail, and from there I write an actual script. But really I don't actually stop thinking things over and refining things until I actually complete a page and post it online.

... that took me like half an hour to really work out how to explain things, wow. Like I said at the beginning, it's kind of second nature to me by now, I don't even need to think about what I'm doing.

CZweig
The next thing I do, which is kind of weird I guess, is figure out the climax. I don't like making it up as I go along, so I need to have this in sight before I can start building up the rest of the events that lead up to it.

Nope. Not weird at all! This is sooo important for a story comic (and something not nearly enough writers do!)

I remember first being told this when I was about eight or nine and, being eight or nine, I naturally rejected it completely! I just had too much fun making things up as I went along to worry about the ending.

It took me a long time to understand why it was important. Now I compare writing a story to writing a gag strip. If you start writing a gag without knowing what the punchline is going to be, the pay-off is probably going to feel forced and not very funny. The build-up has to be preparing the reader for a specific pay-off, whether it's a visual pratfall or a play on words. For a story, the climax is the punchline and so it will have much more impact if everything that's gone before has been building towards that specific outcome.

Agreed I usually know the ending before I start writing even if I am doing it on the fly. Malefic was different as it is an ongoing thing with no specific end (at this point) but others have very definite endings.

DAJB
I remember first being told this when I was about eight or nine and, being eight or nine, I naturally rejected it completely!

This was me exactly. Looking back on what I wrote as a kid, it's all very inconsistent and nonsensical because I just wrote whatever I thought would be cool to happen next. I think I jumped the shark about five times.

It takes a very skilled writer to pull off a good story without knowing how they'll end it.

I started both of my comics without having thought about the ending (until much later). Even now, I have 2 possible endings for my 2nd comic, and I'm undecided on which one. And, the ending of the 1st comic has changed multiple times, in the script.

I like my current 2 comics so much precisely because they are more spontaneous and amenable to changes, compared to my previous "epic story." In fact my previous epic story (not on DD) can never be finished, because I don't think I can modify/update/improve it.

The future is always in motion. For that reason the ending I have in mind at the beginning of penning a story may not be the ending the story ends up with. I always try to have an ending in sight or else I will never finish it. It's a psychological thing for me to have that goal in sight.

My outlines range from a list of specific scenes to just a jumble of ideas. I am always experimenting as my muse keeps twisting my imagination. Right now I'm writing a script completely out of order with scenes leaping into my head and also wrestling with a pile of images I put together with little idea of story but there is a story.

I used to explain everything and now I'm playing with narrative ambiguity. I'm one of those geeks who used to feel that every option had to be considered by intelligent characters. Now I'm seeing that sometimes a series of events may happen without being to consider options and that the why doesn't exist and can't be consdiered until all the dust has settled. And how can I do that is the constraints of a comic narrative?

I once wrote what I thought was a straight forward horror story that instead ended up being a character sketch of a shattered and increasingly obsessive personality.

Agreed. IMO a good story must have room to grow during the years you work on it. Because the author will grow and improve during those years. If the story cannot grow in tandem (due to its structure or whatever), then it will be dropped and remain unfinished by the author.

I'm also 1 of those "geek" authors who used to love explaining all the stuff I researched in order to make my story. I learned my lesson the hard way (while doing earlier webcomics!) that ambiguity often makes for much better stories. Now I keep my babble in the Comments and out of the comics itself.

I have an overall story which I haven't got written down. But I started off with out doing any scripting, basicly each page was made up as I did the art. But as the story progressed, I started working on an outline for each arc, which I write down on my ipad. From that I can work on each page. Though sometimes as I work on the art for the pages the entire arc may change (Thats happened more than once) and with my arcs getting longer and more compex having that basic idea writtend own has helped me keep with the general idea.
I dont script each page usualy. Sometimes I have used the sketch feature on Manga Studio to do a stick figure outline for a page. but usualy I get stuck into DAZ Studio and create the page that way.

Synopsis.
Storyboard.
Art.
Dialogue.
That's pretty much it.---Al

I suggest purchasing some books on story structure. All you need is this concept, a basic idea and some imagination and everything will just fill it's self out logically.