I just got done reading Watchmen again, and honestly, I really have a hard time seeing this as a film without major reinvention. To be quite blunt, an exploding spaghetti monster that psychically kills half of New York is.....ludicrous. No one will want to see that, and no one will want to see that and see the bad guy get away with it. For real, are you kidding me? The Black Freighter sub-comic book?


Can anyone see this as a remotely successful film? Please tell me how it would be possible.

Oh, I should mention that it is currently gearing up for a 2009 release.

Forget the prospect of making this a successful film, I don't know how he's going to make this one film at all. I always have said if they couldn't keep their damn mitts off it it should be a mini-series.

Black freighter, yes--and what about the important news articles at the end of the books? Those are integral to the storyline. What about the whole Dr. Manhattan in exile part? How can you possibly handled that in 2 hours and still make it meaningful?

This just seems like a monster of a project. You ever seen SlaughterHouse 5? Some works just aren't meant to be movies.

edit: MR. Manhattan, ahhh...

right...and how do you film this guy?

Dr. Manhattan.

It's an excellent comic, but just too weird. Rorschach? C'mon.

Vindibudd
Can anyone see this as a remotely successful film? Please tell me how it would be possible.

There's 3 ways to make this possible:

1- Keep the pirates. DITCH EVERYTHING ELSE. Pirate movies make money these days after all.

2- Add Tom Sawyer. Because that worked so well for League of Extraordinary Gentlemen!

3- Have Mark Millar rewrite it. Millar's already rewritten it once, and Marvel paid him well for that (it's called Civil War though). Pay him again. He'll rewrite it again.

I just lost any literary respect I had for you guys.

The Watchmen is not only going to be a great movie, its going to be even better as an extended directors cut dvd.

Its a perfect cold war era story, that is going to be very relevant in todays socio-political world. Who doesn't want to see Dr. Manhatten sitting on mars contemplating everything? Or the scenes with Roshach just beating people for information. Or how about The Comedian in vietnam with that prostitute? Or the Nite Owl & Roshach teamed up against the rioters? I've got to say the highlight of the book for me, IS the ending. It ties up the loose ends so perfectly, but at the same time has that ambigious "Will that guy reach for Roscachs diary and expose the truth of what happened? Even so, would anyone belive a sleazy tabloid?" Its stuff like that that made the watchmen so universally interesting. I've a lot of faith in Zack Snyder's abilities as a film maker. He managed to make a good remake and an epic comic book adaptation. If anything this is going to be one of the best MOVIES ever, let alone best comic book movies.

Just think what Terry Gilliam could've done with this material in the 80s/early 90s. It would've been perfect.

There are other reasons why its such a great piece of work, but honestly, it could be a dud. Its got so much to it, and especially with the dossier files at the end of each book that explain a lot of the expositionary details, its nearly unfilmable.

At least this guy has an idea of how to make a great movie, how should we feel about the asshole doing the Preacher HBO series?

I know Hollywood can make the film, but the question does remain: would anyone watch it or want to?

Alan Moore bailed on this movie project sometime last year, if that gives you any idea where this is heading...

And I did read Watchmen when it came out. I liked it, I understood what he was saying...but everything Moore does on his own is very dark, very depressing and ultimately noone wins -- even when someone wins -- because of the resulting consequences from the buildup (League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Excalibur were something of an exception to this rule...and Excalibur ended up trading hands a few times and became unrecognizable and unreadable).

Anyway, if you don't mind that, then it could be very enjoyable from a literary perspective. ;) Who they get to act in it and direct it could also save or doom the movie.

I agree with you, Marine, that Terry Gilliam would've been a good director for this material back then. And I can think of some 80s actors/actresses who would've done justice to it at that time, too.

marine
I just lost any literary respect I had for you guys.

The Watchmen is not only going to be a great movie, its going to be even better as an extended directors cut dvd.

Its a perfect cold war era story, that is going to be very relevant in todays socio-political world. Who doesn't want to see Dr. Manhatten sitting on mars contemplating everything? Or the scenes with Roshach just beating people for information. Or how about The Comedian in vietnam with that prostitute? Or the Nite Owl & Roshach teamed up against the rioters? I've got to say the highlight of the book for me, IS the ending. It ties up the loose ends so perfectly, but at the same time has that ambigious "Will that guy reach for Roscachs diary and expose the truth of what happened? Even so, would anyone belive a sleazy tabloid?" Its stuff like that that made the watchmen so universally interesting. I've a lot of faith in Zack Snyder's abilities as a film maker. He managed to make a good remake and an epic comic book adaptation. If anything this is going to be one of the best MOVIES ever, let alone best comic book movies.

Just think what Terry Gilliam could've done with this material in the 80s/early 90s. It would've been perfect.

There are other reasons why its such a great piece of work, but honestly, it could be a dud. Its got so much to it, and especially with the dossier files at the end of each book that explain a lot of the expositionary details, its nearly unfilmable.

At least this guy has an idea of how to make a great movie, how should we feel about the asshole doing the Preacher HBO series?

marine
I just lost any literary respect I had for you guys.

Really?

Why?

If you take a moment to think about Alan Moore writings that have been turned into film, you'll realize they don't translate well. Which is what the topic here is about.

League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was pretty much destroyed by Hollywood.

From Hell changed massive plot elements and left the source material far behind.

And even V for Vendetta had huge apsects of the plot updated, changed and Americanized.

Watchmen? A great story. But definitely anacrhonistic enough for Hollywood to update it for modern times. And certainly British enough for Hollywood to Americanize it again.

Its a perfect cold war era story, that is going to be very relevant in todays socio-political world.

Just like V for Vendetta, this isn't going to translate properly and need updating, because of how different things are today from the cold war.

Or how about The Comedian in vietnam with that prostitute?

Bet ya they change Vietnam to someplace else. Maybe Afghanistan.

how should we feel about the asshole doing the Preacher HBO series?

For preacher to work for me they only have to get one word of dialog from the entire series correct:

FNARP!

I love Watchmen to death, and that's precisely why I don't want this movie to happen. It's too big, it's too complex, and it's too medium specific to survive adaptation into any other medium without losing most of its depth. Terry Gilliam was going to film it as a miniseries, and that might have worked because it's the right format for it and Gilliam's a genius, but fucking Zack Snyder? What he did with 300 was okay, but this is Watchmen we're talking about here.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that this somehow never happens.

SteveMyers22
Watchmen? A great story. But definitely anacrhonistic enough for Hollywood to update it for modern times. And certainly British enough for Hollywood to Americanize it again.

Well, Snyder said he wants to do it as a Cold War story, and he wants to do the pirates, but apparently this is still all pending approval from the studio.

I honestly think the Watchmen movie is going to be a disaster and I am dreading it like the plague. Either it will try to capture the many layers of the book in which case it seems doomed to failure or it will jettison them all in favour of a simplistic tale of good guys vs bad guys which will be a travesty.

Of course, I said something similar about LotR: Fellowship and then sat in the cinema with a stupid grin on my face for the best part of three hours, so what do I know?!

:)

The only thing I dislike about the idea of watchmen being a movie is the excerpts. Are they going to just make those into movie clips? That doesnt feel right. Will they just ignore them? Probably.

they'll probably lose the pirates too. Why? Because it seems that movies need to take place on one level at a time and watchmen constantly jumps between levels. The pirates movie will seem out of place to anybody watching and unfamiliar with the story.

I think the story COULD make an GOOD movie but it would take a lot of work. I think the guy working on it has the intention of keeping it pretty close to the source material, so hopefully it is good, but the previous attempts at moores work have been so terrible that it makes you a bit nervous.

Hopefully though they do it right.

I never saw Alan Moores movie adaptations outside of Cravens Swamp Thing and V for Vendetta. Granted, V had some big things moved around, and they did some other unsavory things. But the most important ideas are there. It wasn't complete blasphemy though. The Punisher movie took a lot of ques from Welcome Back, Frank, but it really wasn't the direct translation it should've been.

Now take a look at what happened with 300. Take the book and the movie and take a good look. Some things were added sure, but who complained about the gigantic guy he was fighting? The stuff with the knife armed executioner guy was a bit much, but I'm sure someone thought that guy was cool.

It wasn't as good as Frank Millers Sin City's film translation, which was probably more material than the watchmen (Hard Goodbye's serialized stories, The Yellow Bastard six issues, Customers Always Right 2-3 pages maybe less, five issues) So thats about 12 issues worth of stuff. Certain bits of the Watchmen could be shortened down (Dr. Manhatten's reflections and flashbacks on mars for example could be condensed) Plus you've got to think about how stuff translates to film. Some pages are just a string of cut shots of scenery. I'm having high hopes.

Alan Moore strikes me as being an eccentric. More so than myself. I just don't really get why he makes such a big stink about movie adaptations of his work. If you just take your fat movie check, or refuse to sell the rights away before you even write your work, you've no excuse for harping about your movies sucking ass.

I saw a few minutes of the Leauge of Extrodanary Gentlemen movie on FX about a month or two ago, didn't look that bad. Looked like a fun adventure flick. I've not read those books, but eh.

marine
I saw a few minutes of the Leauge of Extrodanary Gentlemen movie on FX about a month or two ago, didn't look that bad. Looked like a fun adventure flick. I've not read those books, but eh.

League, the comic book, was a pretty astute revisionist look at 19th century literary figures set into a comic book formula. It had a clever wit about it. And was a very enjoyable read.

League, the movie, was a flat, shallow adventure flick that changed most of the elements of the comic book and did some really gaudy, unbelievable action sequences that had no place in the story.

Now, you have read Watchmen. How awesome would you find the film if when you went to watch it, it was "a fun adventure flick" that was on the level of Sharkboy and Lava Girl?

That's about the closest analogy I can give to what they did to League when going from comic to movie.

They pretty much did the same thing to From Hell also.

I liked V for Vendetta, the movie. But yeah, as you yourself state, they changed some pretty big important things.

Like the Robert states, Alan Moore stories in movies don't have a good track record. It is something that would make a fan of the work nervous about how it will all turn out.

Jesus, guys, can we stop talking about that abysmal From Hell movie please? I'd rather never be remindet of that thing. *barf*

Anyway, my impression is that Moore has gotten progressively more irritated with what Hollywood is doing to his comics and now reacts angrily to just about anything. His complaints about the V for Vendetta adaptation struck me as a bit... nitpicky. Far be it from me to say that I know better than him, but I really don't think that was a bad movie at all, and he was probably still pissed off about how shoddy the LoEG movie was.

If it was just a fun noir flick with Roshach as the main lead, I'd love that. It wouldn't bother me if they left out 90% of the material, just to see him in action on film would be incredible. I knew what the gentlemen comic was, but I'd not read it yet. From what I saw the movie was very colorful and had some overly elaborate action scenes. V for Vendettas additions to the film weren't all that terrible. I'll see if I can't locate From Hells book and movie this weekend and read/watch them so I have more of a frame of reference.

I wonder if Marvel Man's movie would be great or not? If they ever figure out who actually owns him and what they want to call him, it'd make a good movie.

What about Moores work on Supreme? I read a bit of it and thought it was rather interesting, but I never finished it. I more or less just flipped through it. Superman homage stories and DC stuff just doesn't interest me.

I tell you one thing Alan Moore wrote that went into a movie that was great: The Violator. Specifically, a mini 3 or 4 issue mini series where the clown gets his demon powers back from spawn. He has a speech where he names off all his brothers, I'm not the Vindicator, or the Victimizer, or the Vaporizer of the Viplator! I'm... THE VIOLATOR. Having read that mini and seeing it in the film was great.

What'd you guys think of Swamp things movies? I've not really read any of his swamp thing run. I keep telling myself to track it down. The first one wasn't so bad, but the second one went into the batshit crazy depratment. How about Constantine? He wrote a bit of Hellblazer stuff (I think he created him too but I might be wrong) right? Not as much as Garth Ennis, but enough to be credited, right? Or am I wrong?

marine
I knew what the gentlemen comic was, but I'd not read it yet. From what I saw the movie was very colorful and had some overly elaborate action scenes.

LXG gets a lot of stick because of what people wanted fom the movie. Go to see it as a lightweight, tongue-in-cheek popcorn movie and it's good fun. Go expecting to see even a hint of the wit and intelligence that Moore put into the book and you're going to be disappointed.

marine
V for Vendettas additions to the film weren't all that terrible.

I think Moore's problem with V for Vendetta is that the book is very personal to him. I may be wrong but, when I read V, it comes across as a very bitter attack on the Thatcher government of the 1980s. Therefore, although the movie stays true to some of the bigger themes in the book, for Moore, the shift in focus loses the real point of it all. (Of course, that's all guesswork on my part!)

marine
What about Moores work on Supreme? I read a bit of it and thought it was rather interesting, but I never finished it. I more or less just flipped through it. Superman homage stories and DC stuff just doesn't interest me.

I think Supreme: the Story of the Year is an excellent book. If you still have it, I'd really recommend you read it again. Personally, I don't see it as a simple Superman homage. Obviously the Superman references are all there but, like most of Moore's books, it works on several levels. I see it as (i) a potted history of the evolution of super hero comics, (ii) a barbed criticism of the drive to make comics ever more sensationalist and (iii) a "how-to" guide for many of the techniques used in writing comics.

marine
How about Constantine? He wrote a bit of Hellblazer stuff (I think he created him too but I might be wrong) right?

I'm not 100% sure (no doubt someone more knowledgeable will correct me!) but I don't think he wrote HellBlazer. I think he created John Constantine as a character in Swamp Thing and he span off from there into his own series. As I say, I may be totally wrong on that one, so don't quote me!

marine
If it was just a fun noir flick with Roshach as the main lead, I'd love that. It wouldn't bother me if they left out 90% of the material, just to see him in action on film would be incredible.

then they should not call it Watchmen but rather Roshach: From Pages Of Watchmen...or something like that and have a series of stories evolving off each other to tell the story/ies in Watchmen.

spacehamster
Jesus, guys, can we stop talking about that abysmal From Hell movie please? I'd rather never be remindet of that thing. *barf*

Anyway, my impression is that Moore has gotten progressively more irritated with what Hollywood is doing to his comics and now reacts angrily to just about anything. His complaints about the V for Vendetta adaptation struck me as a bit... nitpicky. Far be it from me to say that I know better than him, but I really don't think that was a bad movie at all, and he was probably still pissed off about how shoddy the LoEG movie was.

i think he was right on about his opinion for v for vendetta. Aside from Evey's imprisonment, everything was just wrong and no, it didnt have the same ideas. They dont even mention anarchy or fascism in the movie directly.

Also the fact that they took out billie holiday and replaced her with dianna krall. I love krall, but come on!

Just can't see 12 comic books where the frame of reference jumps time so quickly as working. Plus, the actors they've chosen... ugh.

It took years to get the project this far. They should have taken a few more.

I don't think any movie adaption would ever try to cover everything. The pirate comic and the extra details in prose at the end of each chapter can and should be cut. The story can be read without them and references can be made. It just means there will be a very good reason for people to read the comic. The movie will have to work in broader brush strokes, but I think the fractured nature of the narrative would work on screen and I would look forward to watching it.