I'm trying to put together info for a piece on Yaoi and Shonen-ai (Boy's Love) for my blog. I really want your opinion to why women have taken such a liking to this sub-genre of manga that is sometimes the equivalent to gay porn. If you have any opinions on the topic at all please share them...even if they sound silly or are just speculatory.

Also you can include your opinion about Yaoi and Shonen-ai. All comments appreciated. (so if you hate it don't be afraid to mention that...I want ALL opinions).

I imagine girls like it for the same reason that men like Lesbians.

I think it has a lot to do with the fact it hasn't really been all that accessable to the US until recently, in comic form.

Guys always had an easier time finding sexual comic material, while woman really didn't. Now it's more socially norm to put this sorta stuff.

for a genre targeting hetrosexual females, i find it odd that there isnt really a direct reverse equivalent targetting a similar male demographic, I don't think I have ever seen a single manga, or anime for that matter with a lesbian theme that focuses on relationships.

Meh Yuri's better, its got chicks in it.

Kennedy0
Trust me, girls are very different when it comes to things like that. Ask any one of them.

No...trust me, we aren't.

And actually in Japan and in the United States there is a sub-genre of manga that is aimed toward the gay male crowd, but most of what is mainstream Yaoi is written by and read by women...the statistics have proven that.

That's why I wanted to do this piece...its kinda like romance novels (have you ever read the smut in that crap?) for some reason it has become a common occurance for women to read hardcore Yaoi. If you think I'm joking ask any girl at a convention. I bet you at least 50% of them have read a hardcore boy's love comic.

Mimarin
for a genre targeting hetrosexual females, i find it odd that there isnt really a direct reverse equivalent targetting a similar male demographic, I don't think I have ever seen a single manga, or anime for that matter with a lesbian theme that focuses on relationships.

Would you like me to refer you to a few titles. They aren't very popular here, but there are a few good scanlations floating around out there.

thatreevesgirl
No...trust me, we aren't.

And actually in Japan and in the United States there is a manga that is aimed toward the gay male crowd, but most of what is mainstream Yaoi is written by and read by women...the statistics have proven that.

That might be because of the way all the male characters both look and behave like women (except with cocks) it seems more like a relationship between two female characters, or in the case of articles with one prodominatley "male" figure and a more efeminate character a traditional male-female relationship.

I think the only real draws are the fact that A) there is no female lead that makes the reader feel inadiquate and B) some other really comicated stuff pertaining to sexuality that I can't be bothered to go into right now that probably isnt even right.

equinox
[Now if it featured realistic relationships with sex scenes that didn't involve androgynous 'things' spraying cum and raping each other in the bleeding asshole, it might be respectable. No, I probably still wouldn't care for it if it featured normal realistic men, but I wouldn't be apalled by it.

QFT.

For a good part of my life I stayed as far away from yaoi as possible and denied that Zoisite was really a man in the japanese version of sailor moon.

Nowadays I'm the biggest yaoi fanatic around probably. How it happened? I have no clue. It probably came from reading Shoujo. I got bored of the lead characters in most shoujo mangas and I believe one of the series I read featured a gay couple and when I found myself enjoying their story more than the main I turned to yaoi. I think that's what happened but I don't remember. I think I was abducted!!!

I normally like yaoi for it's wacked out stories and smex. I'd be lying if I said I read it purely for the stories. Lots of nice eye candy!!

I also like the fact that it is completely far from reality. I'm not as interested in real-life gay men and have met too many who are only too happy to share every detail of their sex lives. *ugh*
I'd have to say there are more men that like lesbians than there are women who like gays. Women don't look at gay men the same way men look at lesbians. I think men want to get it on the action while women would probably just watch.

Most of the people I know who read yaoi are female. More and more "males" are popping up although who knows if they are really male because there are a lot of girls out there who read it and wish they were gay men and so pretend to be online.

As for hardcore yaoi......sadly I have become used to it though I remember a time when I would o.O at it. There are a few titles that I won't read though like the S&M ones and most shota. I just can't stand those.

Haha True true.

And I didn't mean that all gay men are like that. Of course I love my gay friends. Just that a lot of their friends are kind of gross when upon first meeting me they don't hold back on all of their sex tales.

I like it because it usually portrays homosexuality as an entirely normal thing, including interesting evolving relationships and characters that aren't just total sluts.

Also, all american artwork involving male nudity or relationships have that incredibly boring generic male look. All buffed up with very short hair. It's nice to see people supporting the idea that men are allowed to look different.

Or perhaps girls just get off on gay sex. Whatever.
That's just my personal take on the whole thing.

The only problem I have with both Yaoi and Shonen-ai is that there is too much of it, and much of it is crap. Most Shonen-ai today is made for one thing, to show "hey look at me, my parents died, I'm emo goth boy" and "I'm the quiet cool looking dude" doing it. Hell, I've seen one Shonen-ai webcomic that captializes on the fact that the comic itself has no plot, nor story, just guys kissing.

I wouldn't hate it so much if at least the people making them tried to make semi-interesting plots and new non stereotypical characters. (The same goes for manga that appeals to men.)

.: Myxomatosis :.

Last I checked most yaoi manga portrays homosexuality as full of violent rape and abuse. The usual relationship in said mangas usually involve "OMG! That guy is hawt! I want his cock!" right before the person gets raped by the guy they were just fawning over. A violent scene of bloody ass rape and forced bukkake quickly ensues.

I guess I'm not reading the same stuff as you.:?

KC3T LV

Mimarin
I think the only real draws are the fact that A) there is no female lead that makes the reader feel inadiquate and B) some other really comicated stuff pertaining to sexuality that I can't be bothered to go into right now that probably isnt even right.

I always thought this was one of the reasons women seem to enjoy yaoi at a noticibly higher rate than men in a lesbian case.

Personally, I am a guy, and don't read Yaoi, or Yuri. I find both of these sexual concepts less interesting to me.
I guess I find the natural way of sexual intimacy most beautiful. But maybe that's just me. :?

**cough** Homo **cough cough**

the Yuri part >_>

Kennedy0
Actually, I kind of figured the gay porn thing had more to do with gay fans than it did girls. Girls generally don't like gay porn.

You're wrong on that front. Believe me, anime fans aren't like a lot of other people. They're a lot more open minded. Now I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but the point is:

A lot of female anime fans like yoai. Heck, I could tell you that by talking to any of the girls in the anime club at my school. They're yoai freaks.

Mimarin
for a genre targeting hetrosexual females, i find it odd that there isnt really a direct reverse equivalent targetting a similar male demographic, I don't think I have ever seen a single manga, or anime for that matter with a lesbian theme that focuses on relationships.

not to be random but...hen (by the person that does gantz) is a pretty good manga with a lesbian theme that focuses on relationships. It's about a woman who discovers herself attracted to a girl and how she deals with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEN [en.wikipedia.org]

another that is pretty much short sex bits would be maka-maka.

Kennedy0

ccs1989
You're wrong on that front. Believe me, anime fans aren't like a lot of other people.

....And I'm glad we don't. I am afraid of back acne.

wow, that stung and I don't even have back acne. just to vouch for nerds, the folks at anime cons seem to be getting better and better looking.

most guys I know get bored by lesbian porn, including me... when I was younger I would make quips about how awesome it is with my friends because i beleived it was expected of me, and infact actually beleived it to be awesome without actually watching it (go figure :P)... but as we grew we admitted to eachother and ourselves that it is boring as hell, when I talk with guys today (early twenties) we all agree that lesbian porn is unappealing... a guy and a girl getting it on in a non violent manner non discusting manner, now that is sexy. Ofcourse its really rare...

yaoi is usually as sick as most hentai, being predominantly violent rape... that is because porn gravitates to be more and more hardcore as people get jaded... Why women like it? maybe they think its expected of them because men supposedly all like lesbos, maybe they are "getting back" at males for liking lesbians by watching yaoi. Keep in mind that not MOST WOMEN read it, just that most of those who read it are women (and that is not the same thing)...

How do I know how yaoi is? thats because yaoi doesn't feature men, just like dickgirls aren't women... I have read yaoi before to its near completion before realising that BOTH people have a penis. The japanese sought to remove the guy from the porn targeted at males by slapping a penis on a woman and having her fuck another woman (so that the man isn't discusted by seeing another male naked, or feels inadequate in comparison)... and then to remove the female from porn by changing her into a "male" who is so effiminate the only way you can tell is the addition of a penis (not to be confused with the she male which has both a penis AND a vagina and breasts bigger then her head); this is done for the same reasons as for the males... so that a female is not discusted by seeing another female naked (or doubt her hetrosexualiy) and so that she doesn't feel inadequate in comparison...
Both of these are targeted exclusively at HETROSEXUALS who are insecure.

Western Hardcore: Blowjob, Pussy, Anus, Bukkake.
Eastern Hardcore: Demure fawning over someone, violent rape with blood and tears, shattered person quivering on the floor with fountains of semen comming out of their orfices.
Both are trying to be as hardcore as possible and just end up discusting.

And most of the people on the machan forums aren't 13 year old homosexual boys, they are 50 year old men and federal agents out to get the 50 year old men who pretend to be 13 year old homosexual boys. If someone really is a 13 year old homosexual boy there he would soon end up setting up a date with a real federal agent who, upon seeing its actually a boy and not a predator, will explain to his parents why they brought him home and the importance of NEVER EVER setting up a metting with a strange man you only met through the internet... Subsequently the parents would try to dehomosexualize their 13 year old son by confiscating his computer hoping that without exposure to yaoi he would "grow out" of that "phase"... it will not work though...

Ofcourse yaoi is as far as humanly possible from gay porn.. to begin with the only guys who look like that are little boys... and most homosexuals are NOT pedophiles.



Shonen ai btw are usually horrible horrible comics that substitute the fact that its shonen ai for plot, many of them even take PRIDE in the fact.. Some aren't shonen ai but just homosexual comics, which are basically the same only with western art...
Now I read some comics where there are gay characters and I have even found one GOOD comic with a gay main character, but that is it... Every other single comic that features homosexual leads that I came across forgoes plot entirely to glorify the fact that, gasp, they have a gay lead... I would love to filter those out from the comic lists when I view as they annoy the hell out of me (hint, not because i am straight but because they substitute that for plot)... and they are about 2/5 comics on keenspace, 2/5s are sprites, and the last 1/5 are neither of those... but often still suck.. makes finding new comics there a chore... here on DD its just 90% sprite to 10% other

equinox

taltamir
Every other single comic that features homosexual leads that I came across forgoes plot entirely to glorify the fact that, gasp, they have a gay lead...

If lesbians count, then EMD! defies that concept.

Lesbians ROCK!

equinox

taltamir
Every other single comic that features homosexual leads that I came across forgoes plot entirely to glorify the fact that, gasp, they have a gay lead...

If lesbians count, then EMD! defies that concept.

Well, according latest definitions by homosexuals gay is for men and lesbian is for women... so I used gay to describe it because that is how they define themselves... So yea ED doesn't count as it contains lesbian leads.. which for some reason is really really REALLY rare compared to male homosexual leads...
In fact in many male homosexual comics the entire population of the "world" is comprised of effeminate male homosexuals... in some they actually make a point of it by including one or two women who play the villian in the peaceful utopia of gay men... (i am not making this up). :cry:

And in ED you actually have a plot rather then say "OMFG look my leads are lesbians!" and leaving it at that.



I am just shocked at the amazing discovery I made last night though.. I was too tired to dwell on it at the time but I now realise the truth within it...
Yaoi is for females only, it is NOT the opposite of yuri (lesbian hentai for men) it is the opposite of dickgirl hentai.

Read the following line respectively (ie, the part to the left of / always matches the ones on the left of the other / in the paragraph)

Yaoi/Dickgirl hentai is for hetrosexual females/males. It removes the women/men from the picture by making them into effete men/slapping a penis on a woman. This is done to appeal to people who are hetrosexual and do not want to see a member of their own sex naked. It is also made for those who are insecure and don't want to be threatened by the perfect proportions of the people featured there.

i am afraid to tell you that it already exists... :) in fact there is more then one comic like that. ;P

Well not necessarily actually... I haven't actually READ those to completion so I don't know if they end by transforming the woman into a man... I think she is probably killed, and that half the men were also vampires...

Also the females are usually beutiful with long hair and very very very feminine... They don't want the readers feeling for the manly female villan, no she has to be completely female to be loathed properly...

What do you think of my dickgirl/yaoi theory though?

Kennedy0
You guys, the fact that you know so much about this stuff is something you should never ever tell anybody.

I second that.

i come from deviant art and am constantly surrounded by this kind of stuff everyday and i can tell you this that the majority of people on that site at least are girls that make these "parings" and from what i know most are straight but then again not many voice wether they are gay or not.

but if you want to know about this go on devaint art or fan fiction.net because out of most of the sites that i have seen those two have the most parings. there are even clubs on deviant art that are dedicated to yaoi. if you don't believe me go on the da and search that word, but i will warn you right now some stuff is pretty disturbing.

and no i do not have any parings.

everyone says that to me on just about anything :). Every time when I explain to someone what a gimp or a succubus means they tell me that its disturbing I know so much about the subject...

But honestly its just that I read and I have good memory. I went through the ENTIRE listing of keenspot and drunk duck... every single comic in the ENTIRE list. (ofcourse new ones have been added since) I was bound to see some things that were really horrible...

yeah there are some disturbing comics out there, i'm glad i haven't found any i just know because people on the da talk about them all the time. one is called twilight show or something well that's the most resent i've heard of. there was other one i found and i don't want to get into detail.

Kennedy0
But we're not talking about a gimp or a succubus, here. We're talking about derranged make-believe nerdy gay sex. People like Jeffrey Dahmer were into that.

No, not nerdy make beleive gay sex... Psudeo hetrosexual sex without women for women, just like dickgirl hentai is psudeohetrosexual sex without men for men.

my goodness you people brought up some stuff that I never thought of, stuff that I need to research more. Good theories, good conversation...a bit disturbing. Its gonna be an interesting article.

): dickgirl.

i personally don't want to know anything about dickgirl, it sounds wrong.