'Cuz I do.
Oh Streets of Rage 2, how I missed thee.

Occasionally... if I don't want to dig out my SNES or whatever it I feel like playing at the moment.

I have a large collection of SNES Roms, but I also own most of the actual cartridges. I had at once time started to get some NES and Genesis Roms as well, but time passed and I lost interest.

I only wish more companies would release their classic games in compilations so I wouldn't need emulators to enjoy my retro goodness. Atari did with their excellent 80 Games Collection. Why doesn't Nintendo start giving me those old classics I desperately want to play again?

Steely Gaze
I have a large collection of SNES Roms, but I also own most of the actual cartridges. I had at once time started to get some NES and Genesis Roms as well, but time passed and I lost interest.

I only wish more companies would release their classic games in compilations so I wouldn't need emulators to enjoy my retro goodness. Atari did with their excellent 80 Games Collection. Why doesn't Nintendo start giving me those old classics I desperately want to play again?

Because then no one would buy anything from the Virtual Console. lol!

Anyway, I don't use Roms.

Lord Shplane
Anyway, I don't use Roms.

Ha ha loser.

Without ROMs, there would so many SNES and N64 games that I would never have gotten a chance to play. No Chrono Trigger. No Ocarina of Time.

I'd like to thank NLTC for introducing me to the ROM world. If it wasn't for his TD-based Zelda hack, I'd have never gotten into ROMs.

That's pretty sad considering both Chrono Trigger and Ocarina of Time can be aquired easily (and cheaply) without the illegal download.

LIZARD_B1TE
Ha ha loser.

Man, what a stupid reply.

LIZARD_B1TE
Ha ha loser.

Wow, that's a really intelligent remark...

I don't see the point in talking about rom's, the only games I actually rom are games that aren't released in America, but it's much for fun to import them.

And as for the comment about never playing them, that never happened to me I grew up playing Chorno Trigger and Zelda.

isukun
That's pretty sad considering both Chrono Trigger and Ocarina of Time can be aquired easily (and cheaply) without the illegal download.

Hey, Roms are really only illegal if you don't own the original cartridge. And whereas it would be very easy to get some of these classics though someplace like Ebay, getting a good working system to play them on is practically impossible for me. I own three NES consoles, and not one of them works properly for more than ten minutes. My SNES console is starting act up. My Genesis is still going strong at least, but how long until that breaks down as well? Cripes, even my old Atari 2600 is doing poorly!

Basically, I'm just saying that releasing these old games for a Windows environment would give the companies 1: more money; 2: lessen the impact of "illegal" Roms; and 3: allow a new generation of gamers to experience these treasures. It'd been even better if they went whole hog like Atari did and add in the manuals and box scans, along with some trivia and original adverts.

The only (SNES) rom I ever played was the original Earthworm Jim, then I found it (boxed, with the booklet thingy and everything) at a car boot sale for fifty pee. So I dug up my SNES to play it and found a load of other games I loved so much.

Flashback didn't get any less awesome.

And whereas it would be very easy to get some of these classics though someplace like Ebay, getting a good working system to play them on is practically impossible for me.

Chrono Trigger was released on the PSX and can still be found at some EB Games and Gamestop locations (plus I've seen it at Walmart a few times, too). Even if you did have to resort to ebay (unlikely), you can't tell me you can't find a system which can play PSX games if you don't already have a PSX, PS2 or PS3.

As for Zelda, you can still buy the collectors disc for the gamecube from EB games (check the website) which includes every game from the NES, SNES, and N64 and will play on either the Gamecube or Wii.

Basically, I'm just saying that releasing these old games for a Windows environment would give the companies 1: more money; 2: lessen the impact of "illegal" Roms; and 3: allow a new generation of gamers to experience these treasures.

People who download ROMs will continue to download ROMs. No legal release of the games on ANY platform will resolve that problem. A pirate is always a pirate and will take the attitude of "why pay for what I can get for free?" Companies don't stand to make much money from a PC release on games, anyway. Sega, Namco, Capcom, and Midway have all released classic (and sometimes modern) games to the PC and all have sold poorly. PC gamers aren't always interested in classic gaming, it's more of a nostalgia trip aimed at console gamers who grew up on that kind of gameplay. The only console ports which do well, are games which fit into the genres which are already popular on the PC. Games like FFXI, Halo, and Bioshock. That pretty much sums up the problem with the third point, as well. The new generation of gamers on the PC could care less about old console games when they could be investing in playing new PC games.

*gasp* ROMS are illegal sir!

I would never use an emulator to play fine NES games all but lost to time such as MC Kids, Ducktales 2 and Cluclu Land.

No, that would be wrong

Wrong, so very wrong Isukun.

I didn't realize Chrono Trigger had been released for the PSX, so I had been referring to the original SNES version. Just a FYI.

As to your other argument. Wrong. When I bought that Atari collection, I no longer needed my Atari 2600 Roms and so I got rid of them. The Atari collection works better, has more stuff included, and is a real kicker for fans like me. Thus, they earned my money and made me remove my old Rom collection in one fell swoop. Not everyone is like me obviously, but when you offer a little carrot to a gamer they are always more likely to bite. That's the real reason console ports don't do well on the PC. Most gamers own one form of console and have probably played it already, and those that haven't aren't going to pay 50 bucks for a lackluster, sometimes almost unplayable (in the case of Crazy Taxi) edition of a game that worked fine on their friend's console.

You are determined that Roms are illegal. Good for you. That isn't strictly true. I know tons of people that have talked to me about playing older games their parents played, and what can I suggest to them? Go buy daddy's console or try and find a working C64? They aren't going to want to do that, and I wouldn't blame them at all if they turned to Roms.

At one point, I owned almost every NES cartridge under the sun. Even won the Bubble Bobble highscore for my TOWN. For me, ROMs are nostalgia. A few years ago, I was all over a collection of NES ROMs. I played Pac-Man in hopes of training for a competition at a local store 2 years ago, but alas, it wasn't the same as the arcade version. I did manage to hit the top 3 though. :)

I've always wanted to play ToeJam and Earl again (The robust randomization of the maps was a big draw for exploring), my favorite game from Genesis. I had such good times whiling away the hours with my younger brother on that one. But it just isn't the same playing it solo.

I have practically every retro game in existence on emulators on my xbox.

WHICH IS OF COURSE COMPLETELY LEGAL.

I used to play roms... Silly nostalgia again.
Mainly Sega stuff. At that stage the games just weren't available any other way any longer. But I haven't been bothered to do that again for a few years now.

But it was nice to play those old games again and to play others that were never released here and that I'd only read about.

Chernobog
I've always wanted to play ToeJam and Earl again (The robust randomization of the maps was a big draw for exploring), my favorite game from Genesis. I had such good times whiling away the hours with my younger brother on that one. But it just isn't the same playing it solo.

*Gasp* Another ToeJam and Earl fan! To be completely honest, that game was the sole reason I got a Genesis emulator. I used to rent the damn cartridge about twelve times a month just to play it with my sister. We had so much fun, and you know what? It's held up brilliantly over the years.

I use and emulator for a Metroid II ROM.

...That's it.

As to your other argument. Wrong. When I bought that Atari collection, I no longer needed my Atari 2600 Roms and so I got rid of them.

Good for you. You're one in a million, literally. The fact of the matter is that most people once they start getting things through free illegal venues, they aren't going to go out and buy the legal version just because they can. Another problem is that you make the typical assumption that classic games are in demand. In actuality, it is the fact that they can be aquired for free that makes them appealing. They aren't a product people would be willing to pay for. People like yourself and myself are exceptions to the rule, not trend setters.

You are determined that Roms are illegal. Good for you. That isn't strictly true.

Actually, it is strictly true. No matter how you look at it, unless a company releases a game into the public domain, ROMs of that game ARE 100% illegal.

As for availability of old consoles, most are pretty damn easy to find. First off, emulators aren't illegal. I play a number of old PC_Engine Super CD and Saturn games on my PC. I have legit copies of the games and I can play them through my standard CD ROM drive. That's perfectly legal. If the system is on a special formated media type like a cartridge, many can still be found on the market. Hong Kong manufacturers have been remaking old consoles and selling them under new names for years. And even if you insist on having an original, they aren't that hard to find. I've never had any trouble getting my hands on systems like the SNES, NES, Genesis, Master Drive, etc. And this is all assuming you don't go through one of the pay services which makes classic games available legally. There is a fairly large market for collectors and there is always a way to get what you want.

I've gotten roms for most of my old nintendo games where my battery has died in the game like FF, which you just can't play without saving.

Usually though I try to buy the games on Virtual Consold when they are put up for download not only to own them legally but to vote with my money on the stort of games I want to see being made. I love classic Shining Force for example but the new ones have all sucked, so I'm more then happy to NOT buy SF Neo (may it rot in Game Stops everywhere unsold) but I'll buy the remakes and rereleases to let the company know I want them to go back to their roots!

I just wish Nintendo would put up more real classics like Streets of Rage and Act Razor instead of all these crappy games like Bonks Adventure or Splatter House.

Got a whole bunch o snes roms.

But they took down cherryroms :(
Anyone got alternatives?

isukun
The fact of the matter is that most people once they start getting things through free illegal venues, they aren't going to go out and buy the legal version just because they can.

This is a pretty vauge statement, where are you getting your figures for "most"

If you carry this same statement over to illegal music sharing programs I'd have to disagree. I think most people download only music they want to hear but would never be willing to spend money on, like, say Bryan Adams: Summer of '69, or bands that are so new that they don't know if they like them yet like Fratellis B-Sides, or stuff that's so rare that they'd never be able to find it in a record store like Yer Man: Good Grief

I've bought several albums from bands I've discovered through downloading. And most people I know have done the same.

I think it's totally different with ROMs, I think you're closer to the truth with that, but I also think that your statement is just too broad and it assumes too much.

Besides, I own like 4 different versions of Tetris legally purchased, but then a ROM too, so I think avalibility comes into account too.

I'm big on reliving Earthbound and Kirby Superstar through Roms. When legal copies of both go up on the Virtual Console, I'll buy them. I also want the Superstar remake for the DS.

I have to bring up another point. Isukun said that all Roms are illegal, but does that mean MP3s I make of my music CDs are illegal? Does that make a spare copy of a DVD illegal?

If I own the original cartridge, and decide I want to play it on my computer, what should I do? Is it really illegal to own another version that plays on the system of my choice? If I didn't own the original cartridge, then yeah, I guess you might call it illegal, but otherwise I don't see the argument here.

Say I had children and they had a favorite DVD to watch. Now kids drop things, scratch things and do God knows what else to them, so I make a copy just for their use keeping my original DVD safe. Is that illegal? Not according to most fair-use laws I've read about. So long as I'm not selling it or sharing it, and if it's only for my personal usage, then it's not illegal.

I know this doesn't apply to most of the people who download Roms, but it is a factor to take into consideration when you say that all Roms are illegal. In that case you might as well make emulators illegal because most people use then for "illegal" purposes. Same goes for BitTorrent. Or the internet at all for that matter.

I deleted my Pokemon Snap ROM as it is going to be released on Monday on the VC.

Isukun said that all Roms are illegal, but does that mean MP3s I make of my music CDs are illegal? Does that make a spare copy of a DVD illegal?

Digital copies of any copyrighted material has to be authorized by the original publisher or rights holder in most cases. MP3s are generally accepted by the music industry and legislation was passed to support MP3 creation and distribution through licensed services like itunes. The MPAA also pushed for similar laws for DVDs (although backup copies of DVDs are not allowed under current laws, you can copy movies to other formats for personal use much like making MP3s off of a CD). Sofware does have a partial allowance for backups. Basically, a person who owns a legitimate copy can make two copies of their software. One is the installed copy with software that requires installation, and the other is a backup made directly from the original. A downloaded ROM is still illegal by current copyright law because it is at the very least a copy of a copy.

Another problem I see, is that you're confusing what fair use actually allows, which I find pretty common online, particularly among people who download illegal copies of software, videos or music. Fair use is an exception to copyright law intended for educational, scholarly, investigative, or journalistic purposes, not private or commercial. The rights to duplicate any copyrighted material are exclusively those of the copyright holder.

The biggest problem with your argument is we aren't talking morality here, but legality. You can rationalize your actions until the cows come home, but it won't make it legal. You're taking the stance that your actions don't hurt anybody so they should be legal, but the law doesn't work that way. I have a tendency to bring up the legality of these things in forums mostly because I like to see which people will try to argue the point and which will simply say, "I know it's illegal, but I don't care." I haven't found a lot of people who don't try to rationalize their actions, but the few that I have are far more honest about the issue. Quite honestly, I don't care about downloading ROMs (Hell, I watch fansubs all the time and those are just as ilegal), just about the hypocracy of claiming it's not illegal.

Steely Gaze
...but does that mean MP3s I make of my music CDs are illegal? Does that make a spare copy of a DVD illegal?

Even if they're illegal, I don't think there's anything morally wrong with them. It's the distribution of the copies that's bad.

CDs and DVDs have started to show evidence that they rot over time and cease to function. Because of this I've backed up all my CDs in MP3 format. I bought these songs, I should get to own them after the CD fails on me. Plus, I hate changing discs.

CDs and DVDs have started to show evidence that they rot over time and cease to function.

Rot on DVDs and CDs is actually a very rare issue. Most cases of digital media going bad can be attributed to poor care when handling the media. Most of the time, what people write off as rot is actually damage caused by poor handling.

With CDs, it's usually caused by small scratches on the label side which aren't immediately obvious when looking at it, but cause corrosion of the metalic layer underneath, creating holes in the readable portions of the disc.

DVDs are constructed a little differently and can be damaged if too much pressure is applied to the hub of the disc (this can cause the data layers to shift, making sections of the disc unreadable or causing adhesive layers to come undone).

This is entirely avoidable if you aren't overly rough with your discs and store them in proper cases. I've been buying DVDs since they first came out and CDs even longer. My DVD collection is well over a thousand store bought discs, about half of which are older than seven years, and I have yet to lose one to rot (or anything else for that matter).

isukun
The biggest problem with your argument is we aren't talking morality here, but legality. You can rationalize your actions until the cows come home, but it won't make it legal. You're taking the stance that your actions don't hurt anybody so they should be legal, but the law doesn't work that way. I have a tendency to bring up the legality of these things in forums mostly because I like to see which people will try to argue the point and which will simply say, "I know it's illegal, but I don't care." I haven't found a lot of people who don't try to rationalize their actions, but the few that I have are far more honest about the issue. Quite honestly, I don't care about downloading ROMs (Hell, I watch fansubs all the time and those are just as ilegal), just about the hypocracy of claiming it's not illegal.

Wow, that's the first time anyone's called me a hypocrite. And I think you completely misread my post. Yes, if you do not own the damn cartridge owning a Rom is illegal, I've acknowledged that and I freely admit I've downloaded Roms I don't own the cartridge to, but if you do own the cartridge I do not believe it is illegal. Can you please address this and maybe cite a couple sources? Here's a link to a Wikipedia page (not that they're the most trustworthy site on the web) that says the Roms are not illegal. Legality of ROMs [en.wikipedia.org].

Yes, downloading a Rom may or may not be illegal (depending on a large number of factors, including if the company has released the image for free), I still see some confusion there, but owning a Rom of your own game is perfectly fine and legal.

Wikipedia
In some countries, it is legal for an individual to personally make backup copies of a game they own.

Well, I don't know how important that wording is, personally, but it seems to imply that creating copies of games that one owns is only legal if one creates the copies themselves. This implies that, while owning a ROM is legal, offering one for download is illegal.