Dave Mckean, Neil Gaiman, Alan Moore and Marjane Satrapi.

Darth Mongoose
If you don't want a harsh response, don't make ridiculous statements like 'it all looks the same'.

That's barely a glimpse, and hopefully even a manga n00basaurus should be able to see, these are really different comics.

You might find this amazing but people in this forum actually retort intelligently and make recommendations without the need of sarcasm or in your case...name calling. I mean, seriously..."n00basaurus" - what is that? I teach for a living, so I fail to see how a response like that does ME any good when I ask a question.

What do you mean by ridiculous? Okay...Listen (or READ rather) - the whole point of why I said what I said was because I DON'T have full knowledge of manga.

I shouldn't get a harsh response if I'm asking a question about a style of art I'm none to familiar with...which is why they call this a FORUM, right? So you can DISCUSS these matters INTELLIGENTLY without someone on the other end of a computer using this forum to develop adversarial communication.

You made some recommendations - great. What's the deal with the hostility?

RobertTidwell
I think the point he is trying to make is that if you DONT take the time, they all look so close to each other that the average person who hasn't read any of the books doesnt see very much diversity. I certainly don't. Even when westerners make manga it looks the same to me. Same exact style with very few variables. In other words, if you took four panels from manga comics and showed them to someone who doesn't know manga at all and said "this was drawn by the same guy." they're more apt to look at it and say, "Yeah, it looks like it." but if you took a panel from Arkham Asylum, The dark Knight Returns, The Killing Joke, and Venom(the batman book venom) you'll be more hard pressed to convince even the most unknowing person they were drawn by the same person, and if you do, they'll say something about how versatile that person is.

I really appreciated this response - just to remind the readers...I said manga SEEMS to look the same. SEEMS. I really just want to discuss comic influences, not get into a forum brawl over someone's art sensibilities. I'm not about all that drama. In fact, I HATE it.

I notice that the magna fans have particular works that make them stand out - like I said, each artists has a trademark, whether it's the way they do profiles, the color schemes...whatever. And thus, as artists, we're influenced to try the same style. Even in storytelling.

My influences are pretty hard to list off.

John K. - Creator of Ren & Stimpy and spumco. He used two simple characters and gross low brow jokes to create some very memorable works. Also I'd have to list off the games episodes as well, some of them I really liked a lot. I listen to a lot of his rants about cartoons and try my best to get the non-moronic bits and use them for my own. For instance, he said somewhere the brilliance of Ren & Stimpy was like the old Looney Toons, the characters could work anywhere in any situation. Be it a western, space adventure, underwater sea divers, or just them living in a trailer. Thats something that stuck with me whenever I make new characters, although most of my penis characters have been around for over ten years or more.

Garth Ennis - I only discoved him about two years ago, and his work has been a major influence on my own. The way he weaves a story with so many influences and inspirations is a lot like the way I do my own. His bitingly funny and no bullshit style makes me like him a lot. I also like what he had to say about adaptations outside of his comic. "My books are still there, and I've got a fat movie check, whats the problem?" kind of attitude towards it all.

Howard Stern - A big influence on my comedic style. He's a blunt no bullshit kind of guy. Almost the entire show is giving people the dozens, and that shines through in my comedy. Everyones made fun of for things that they really didn't even do wrong, if they just make a simple mistake like pronconcing a cartoon wrong, it could haunt them for years. Also the focus on sexual topics is another major factor in my comic (after all, it is named penis)

As far as my artwork goes, I would list off -

Hanna-Barbera - Almost all of their works shine through my own, but probably the most noticeable is the Flinstones. Look at the way I structure faces and look at the Flintstones. I didn't even realize it until someone mentioned it to me when I had a guy who looked almost exactly like Barney Rubble last year.

Child scribble drawings/stick people - I like simplistic didactic kind of stuff. Its easy on the eyes and I can draw and manipulate stuff much easiar than if I had went with a manga or more traditinal style.

Other influences you guys will have to guess.

Some webcomic guys that have made me feel special along the way would be rabbit-comics, elftor, zxipi, droop, pig related, and a lot of my other contemporaries. I've spoken with the guy who makes Elftor a few times, and he's the next level up from me. Like I know guys look up to me now, I look up to him. He's not around like he used to be (nor am I really), but some of the stuff we spoke about shaped what penis became. Also his simple looking comic Elftor hides comedic genius, a big influence on penis's style. One thing I wish I did that he done was the cutting and pasting only in specific pages. I think the way I do it now works, but if I had simpler designs like he did, it would allow me more artistic range. I'm a fairly accomplished artist, it just takes me forever to do artwork that I like and even then, I hate it and don't want to show it off.

Here.



Even to an "outsider" who doesn't read or normally look at manga, I think it's pretty safe to say that it's obvious that these were done by four different artists. Yes? It's also safe to say that, if I didn't read superhero books and I just glanced at the covers when I walked past them in the store, they would probably all look pretty similar to me. Of course, they don't all look the same, but they don't interest me and I have no desire to look at them more closely, so they all kind of blend together in my mind and when I think about them, I see one style in my head.

It's really just a case of personal perception, but making sweeping generalizations like "doesn't it all look/sound/taste the same anyway" isn't really a good way to start a discussion on any topic, art or no. If you really want to discuss it, ask someone to explain the differences, instead of getting people's hackles up by unintentionally insulting something that they like.

:kitty:

Anyway. To not stray completely off topic. I didn't really read a lot of comics growing up, so I wasn't so much influenced by comic artists as I was fantasy artists and illustrators. (I have so freaking many fantasy illustration books at home I could probably sell them all and make a mint..) The main ones that influenced me growing up were Michael Whelan, Kieth Parkinson, and Yoshitaka Amano.

silentkitty
Here.

These are more varied than the ones I normally see, its true, but look at the first three and tell me you dont see overwhelming similarities. The shapes of the eyes and faces is what stands out to the non reader.

My ex girlfriend loves manga, she tries to make me read it and watch anime and everytime I try I just get bored with it. I dont understand some of the techniques they use. Scott Mccloud explains it a little in his books about comics but I still have a hard time getting into it, thats more personal preference.

I think until there is a manga with art like dave mckean, I will not really understand its sense of direction.









I wanted to find another picture of the dark/edgy batman and joker but couldn't so you get a cartoon one.

My point being though, Even though each picture has the exact same people, there are very few similarities. The pages you showed, show that manga has a variety to it that the average on looker doesn't see, but as you can tell from four batman pictures(three comcis, one animated series) that in the american comics the distinctions are a heck of a lot further apart.

In reading scott mcclouds understanding comics, he talks about how most manga was influnced from one man(though he claims this man had a huge variety of styles). this is why it doesnt have the variances that other comics have. It doesn't have the variety, yet. I'm sure as more americans take on the task, and as more japenese read western comics, they style will expand even beyond american style art.

RobertTidwell
In reading scott mcclouds understanding comics, he talks about how most manga was influnced from one man(though he claims this man had a huge variety of styles). this is why it doesnt have the variances that other comics have. It doesn't have the variety, yet. I'm sure as more americans take on the task, and as more japenese read western comics, they style will expand even beyond american style art.

Well put! THANKS! And yet every MANGA artist still has a distinguishing trademark with the art. Colors, shapes or lines...as explained by those who are influenced by MANGA.

I'm sure there are tragic stereotypes that offend the MANGA fans too.

Thanks again for the retort.

Okay, I just need to illustrate the point myself~



Yes, manga/anime art has a good number of stylistic traits - they are what make it manga! Eyes are usually larger, mouths and noses are usually smaller if they are even drawn at all, faces have delicate oval shapes and figures are drawn in a tall, slim manner... but like I said, these are trademarks of the style - they can be tweaked and changed to create different looks but in the end they all have roots in the same place so it makes sense that they look similar.

In the image you can see a load of examples of manga that I've just thrown together pretty shoddily... XD but I think they illustrate my point. Manga art can be highly stylised and simplified as in pictures 2 (Crayon Shin-chan, Yoshito Usui) and 11 (Doremon). Or more gritty and realistic looking as in 4 (Blade of the Immortal, Hiroaki Samura), 5 (Golgo 13, Takao Saito), 10 (Bleach, Kubo Tite) and 13 (Death Note, illustrated by Takeshi Obata).

Western art has the same scale - some of it is very simplified like the animated Batman series Robert Tidwell exampled or very detailed like the third Batman example Robert linked to. But to me the first and thirs Batman exapmles look quite similar to me - Batman is very broadly built, has a very strong square jaw, his eyes are proportionately small... I know these are traits of the character as well as the style but as manga artists rarely draw other people's characters it's difficult for me to give a similar example... well, unless I went posting people's fanart... Just search for "naruto fanart " on DA or something and browse through to see the scope manga art can have when applied to the same character.

I acknowledge some of it looks very similar but you need to acknowledge some of it looks very different too~! ^^;


And argh, this should be in the debate forum or something. D:

an interesting fact about the batmans I posted.

Pic number three was drawn by sam kieth, in the book he relates to three different batman comics. drawing batman similar to the batman of The dark Knight Returns(pic 1's batman), Joker similar to joker from Arkham Asylum(pic 2) and he mentions in dialog a joke told in the Killing Joke. So good eye on the similarities between the bats. I had wondered if anybody would see it.

There have been way too many artists for me to list that have influenced my style. Most recently though, I think Nate Powell and Michel Gagne have been my two favorite influences.

I recently tried to draw people for the first time and realized that my biggest drawing influence is who ever draws the simpsons.

gunpei yokoi - created the thing my comic is based off of.

At the top of my list of influences is George Perez. I still wish I could draw like he does.

Then the rest of the influences are kind of a hodgepodge. Comic book-wise, it's Jack Kirby, Bruce Timm, Alex Toth, Gil Kane, Curt Swan, Al Plastino, Walt Simonson, Jerry Ordway. Fantasy art-wise, rk post is the cat's meow for me. Writing influences include Terry Pratchett, Robert Asprin, Ben Edlund, Ray Bradbury, Robert Graves (yeah, Graves is a HUGE influence on me, almost as big as Perez), and lately I seem to really be into anything and everything Judd Apatow's been involved with.

Oh and Syd Barrett, the rest of Pink Floyd, Wu-Tang Clan, The Beatles, Kool Keith, Del, and Rakim all inspire my art with their music.

My two big comic influences are Kohta Hirano and Brian Clevinger. Two completely opposite sides of the spectrum. For Kohta, his work in Hellsing inspires me to come up with different perspectives, and of course, his famous "shadowy figure" work which appears in some of my comics.

Brian Clevinger influences the sprite side of my comic. Mainly the close-ups and the blurs.

For writing.. uh, Garth Ennis, Warren Ellis, Alan Moore, Mitch Hedberg and Simon Pegg.
Art I guess is Ian Mcconville, Mike Mignola and Craig Mullins.

I guess kinda my dad.After he kept on saying my comic was "cute." I began to get annoyed. (I now realize that he says that about almost all humorous things.) Because of him I started a comic about cannibalism (that is funny).
My art and humor style are very independent, but the looks of the cannibal Beta3 are similar to those of the cannibal from Sin City.

SteveMyers22
At the top of my list of influences is George Perez. I still wish I could draw like he does.


Oh and Syd Barrett, the rest of Pink Floyd, Wu-Tang Clan, The Beatles, Kool Keith, Del, and Rakim all inspire my art with their music.

George Perez and the Wu-Tang Clan on the same street! Yeah, I love George Perez too...Great detail in his art - Remember when he did Wonder Woman. Well...he didn't do Wonder Woman, but you know what I mean.

wyldflowa
And argh, this should be in the debate forum or something. D:

Great contribution of samples! You guess are really bringing this debate full circle! We have some passionate Manganians up in this forum! Great stuff! Yes, it's an excellent topic for debate. In fact...I have the PERFECT forum topic for Darth Mongoose...

blntmaker
George Perez and the Wu-Tang Clan on the same street! Yeah, I love George Perez too...Great detail in his art - Remember when he did Wonder Woman. Well...he didn't do Wonder Woman, but you know what I mean.

Yeah, those were some great comics. The olympus architecture. The way he drew the greek gods. Ares looked totally badass. Good times indeed.

:-)

marine
Hanna-Barbera - Almost all of their works shine through my own, but probably the most noticeable is the Flinstones. Look at the way I structure faces and look at the Flintstones. I didn't even realize it until someone mentioned it to me when I had a guy who looked almost exactly like Barney Rubble last year.

Child scribble drawings/stick people - I like simplistic didactic kind of stuff. Its easy on the eyes and I can draw and manipulate stuff much easiar than if I had went with a manga or more traditinal style.

Hanna-Barbera is also one I missed! I enjoyed the Jonny Quest art - still do actually and the art/storytelling of their entire mystery genre from back in the day! Scooby Doo, Clue Blub, Inch High Private Eye.

Good mention!

I dont read lots of comic books. I'm not a big fan of comic books. I dont know? Maybe its because some do feel like the art or the story is repeating, but that's just me.

My inspiration comes from many artist who isnt big name. Some of them are webcomic artist on DD. When I see artist commited to their work, it makes me want to focus, learn, and improve on mine. :)

mitch clem, joe dunn, r.k. millholland, zach miller, jeph jacques, sam logan, richard stevens, chris daily, zach wiener, drew (toothpaste for dinner), jin wicked, everyone at big cheese press, the explosm group, jason sigala, max shlienger, brian clevenger, and brad (of rebound comics)


they're all online comics cause those are better than regular comics in my opinion (they're free and i connect with them better)

Sam Logan, John Kricfalusi, the various artists in Looney Tunes, Bill Watterson, and various really cheesy Sci Fi shows.