Something I've been thinking a lot about lately is the balancing act that my comic does(and I know a lot of others do as well) between the humor and the story.

The most traditional of all formats--the gag a day strip with roughly 4 panels--is one I've been following from the beginning. Not as a crutch or a cliche, but as a challenge. My first three strips have no story, save the little one told to get to the punchline. Then, with strip 4, everything changed and a story began which continued to run all the way to the present (I'm working on strip 92 as I type this).

As I approach strip 100 and that left turn that will make my comic more story intensive, I wonder if my readers will see that as a good thing.

I guess that's my question. What attracts you more to a comic in which humor is an element? The humor itself or the story (if there is one, obviously) being told? I know as a creator, it's the story.

But I wonder what you all think. A lot of you have been at this a lot longer than I have. What do you find most rewarding as a reader? What keeps you coming back to a "funny" strip? Humor or story?

I have different comics for different things. For example Modern Day Witchdoctor is really a more plot intensive dramatic strip, but like yours, its four panels. And I really did it for pretty much the same reason as you, for the challenege as a writer to make something that is good that conforms to these limitations. I tend to do bursts of dramatic storytelling with a series of humor strips in between them that leak out just enough detail to keep the story moving. As a writer, I generally find this breaks for comedy annoying, I want to move on to the story. But I think at the same time they're important to the tone on a whole. Being funny is part of these characters personality, its an important aspect to make them likeable.

On the other hand I have Children at Play, the plot of which is a thinly veiled contrivance to string jokes together. Character development occurs over the course of the comic, but plot is otherwise nihl.

I love doing both of them for their different traits. But I dunno, nobody reads my comics. Don't listen to me.

It depends on what you mean by humor as an "element."

With the "funny" strips I read, it is all about humor for me. I read them to get my regular dose of laughter, so really the story doesn't matter. It's just the framework upon which to create humor. A good and original premise/theme is important, but a continuing plot doesn't seem as important as a good punchline.

I read more story comics than comic strips. Most of those contain at least some humor too, but more of the slice-of-life or irony stuff, not daily punchlines. For those, I don't read expecting a laugh. I read them because I like the story. Any humor along the way is a nice little bonus (or a detraction if not done properly at the right moments) and necessary to maintain a sense of reality and mood.

Whew. Talk about making me analyze my own work with a fine tooth comb! Thanks a lot Brock! Now you're going to give me a complex or something.

:P

In terms of my work, I don't think I'm very good at the classic 4-panel gag strip. So to push my work forward I came up with a somewhat novel approach: I play it straight and let the props/settings get the funny out there. My main character is a straight-man. He is exactly what I say he is ... the world's friendliest super hero who is trying to save the world by befriending it.

It's somewhat ridiculous. And then everything else is ridiculous too. He's hairless and jaundiced. That's crazy. But it makes him basically a living smiley face. He lives in the suburbs. I did that because of the old adage about how one should write what they know. I'm not a city boy. I'm a suburban boy. So I set my book in a place I was familiar with. But it's definitely a treasure trove of silliness when it is combined with the super hero mystique. I have villains with cosmic ice cream cones. I have allies with amnesia and indestructible shields. It's just one silly thing after another. But I do try to structure my stories in a rather standard/classic super hero comic format.

One comment I got on an earlier page of Superchum is that the person said my comic didn't really make them laugh. But it made them smile.

I'll take that. That's fine with me.

I put gags in where I can. And I hope that they feel natural and work. But I don't try and force it because whenever I do, I end up failing. So I just keep trying to tell my stories in a somewhat straightforward way, and let the details sink in. I mean, the first superchum comic I ever self-published, had him saving the day with potato salad. That's funny. But it fit the story.

:)

Anyways, I think you're doing an amazing job Brock. SuperFogeys was one of the first comics I faved on DD. And it's been a blast watching it grow and evolve. I'm more than ready to stick around if you start telling a more intensive, longer reaching story arc. So no worries from this fan about what you have planned for the future.

Keep up the great work man. And quit making me think too hard about my own process! lol

This is a good question, and one I'm not sure I know the answer to. I like humor and I like plot. Personally, it depends on the quality of writing to keep me coming back. Ofttimes this means I'll be more likely to read a comic based on the story rather than the humor. Gag a day strips just feel like too little reward for the time invested in them, at least to me. I like to watch characters grow and evolve as the story plays out.

Of course I shouldn't be one to talk. My own comic tries to use a mix of comedy and serious storylines and is kind of faltering as I'm still trying to learn how to best transition from one to the other.

Really it's all a matter of opinion.

Let's take a former favorite of mine, Elijah and Azuu by Inkmonkey. It began as a clever gag-a-day strip and then roughly half way through its run it morphed into a more serious and dramatic strip that tended to leaven the drama with doses of humor wherever Inkmonkey could make the combination work.

As soon as he switched from the gag-a-day concept to dramatic storytelling I lost interest in the strip because the new premise would not have turned me into a fan in the first place, well not a strong fan of the work anyway. I kept reading the strip, but I put it way down on the daily read priority list.

But this shouldn't matter to an artist that is doing the work as a hobby. First you please yourself, you scratch that intense creative itch, and then you consider your fan base. With the professional cartoonist the priority should normally be the obverse.

Kingofsnake
I tend to do bursts of dramatic storytelling with a series of humor strips in between them that leak out just enough detail to keep the story moving.

That's one of the ways of making the switch to more serious work in your strip and this is pretty much what Inkmonkey did with Elijah and Azuu. Another is to keep a sense of ironic tongue-in-cheek humor line running though the unfolding dramatics, which is also something that Inkmonkey strove to do. Both methods do work, but there's no way that either methodology works as well as the pure gag-a-day -- even one with an unfolding plat/story line -- works in satisfying fans of gag-a-day strips.

Still, what are you going to do? Inkmonkey confessed that he had to make the changeover to a more dramatic and story intensive plot because he had simply run out of viable gag-a-day jokes. The initial concept was no longer working for him and so he had to change in order to continue with the strip. He probably did lose a few fans over the change up, but considering that he remained an overall DD favorite, obviously he didn't lose a really significant number of fans.

So to sum up, if the reader is a gag-a-day rather than story lead reader then you will probably eventually lose that fan. On the other hand you will gradually gain fans from the 'story is more important than jokes' group. As long as your quality of work and attention to detail remains strong, things should work out fine in the end.

Oh, and to answer the question, funny is more important to me than story for a gag-a-day strip, but I do definitely enjoy the gag-a-day format that follows a unfolding storyline as long as there is a punchline in every fourth panel. The gag comes first with me, though.

I think it's important that the story goes SOMEWHERE, but considering it's a comedy, it also has to be funny. So, I'm figuring that a balance between the two is what's important. If I HAD to pick, I'd say that the story is more important because it's where the characters are going. The comedy is the details, and what makes the story fun.

Story is more important than humor. Unless it is SUPPOSE to be a humorous story afterall.

Really great responses in this thread and I appreciate it. It seems that it's different strokes for different folks, but also I hear the argument that if you start it out one way then you should continue that way. I think a writer has a contract with his readers and it's important to respect that.

There's now way I could ever turn a strip called "The SuperFogeys" into something serious, but I also hope my readership forgives me if, once in a while (and usually to make a point) I don't end a strip on a punchline. I don't think I'll ever run out of jokes or the funny, but I'm not going to shy away from the more dramatic parts when they come along. Crud, the end of my first chapter was not funny at all. Well, that is unless you're just an inherently cruel person.

The model I always keep in mind is "For Better or For Worse." That strip may not be your cup of tea, but you have to admire the deft mix of humor, dramatics and an ongoing storyline. That's a balance I'd love to be able to achieve one day.

And...Hey, Steve! Thanks for the words of encouragement. Much appreciated.

Well, I guess if you can work those two together well, than you can say "both are important". For most comics, I'd have to say story is best for them.

A storyline keeps people reading. It's only a matter of time before humor comics lose their humor. You can always create more stories for you characters to experience, but for many humor comics I've seen, you reuse a lot of older jokes.

Priest Raven, yes there is a strong tendency for gag-a-day strips to lose their zing over time , but by no means all artists/writers suffer a similar fate. I don't think the BC gag-a-day strip ever lost its zing. I know of a few other strips that have managed to remain fresh in joke content. It's rare, though.

Yes, Brock, I agree that For better or For Worse is the epitome of strips blending humor with pathos and solid story lines. Good call there.

If there is no story, the humor will eventually become pointless or so niched that it will always have some audience but lose others.

Dueeast, Garfield immediately sprang to mind after reading your comment.

Here's a question then. (And while we all want people to check out our comic, this is not something I was intending on leading to) For those of you that do read the SuperFogeys (see how I'm not asking people to check out my comic?), which do you read it for? Story or humor? Or do you feel it's a successful blend of both?

Better yet, did you used to read SF and now don't?

My entire purpose in starting this thread was to explore this subject in the hopes that I can take what I learn and make SuperFogeys better. But why not just ask directly, right? Feel free, however, it ignore.

Story, humor does play a part but it dosen't build the plot.

Depends on what is more important in the comic to me. When I read strips I always do so for the humor. I never read Ziggy, Garfield, Dilbert, etc for story.

Now for a continuing story, I'll use Ninja Shizatch as an example. It has a story but the comedy is what got my attention. It goes through a few spells on occasion where it is just doing story stuff with little comedy but it keeps comedy it's primary goal.

Whatever your primary goal is, that should be the focus IMO.

Hey Brock,

One of the reasons I love SF is because it does have a story, coupled with good humor. Each of your characters has a background and a story and there's a main story driving the comic. Just keep dreaming up story and humor and you'll continue to have a loyal audience, in my opinion.

Due East is story, story, story -- but it would be depressing if we didn't add humor. The two are hand in hand, they move each other along. :)

Brock
Dueeast, Garfield immediately sprang to mind after reading your comment.

Here's a question then. (And while we all want people to check out our comic, this is not something I was intending on leading to) For those of you that do read the SuperFogeys (see how I'm not asking people to check out my comic?), which do you read it for? Story or humor? Or do you feel it's a successful blend of both?

Better yet, did you used to read SF and now don't?

My entire purpose in starting this thread was to explore this subject in the hopes that I can take what I learn and make SuperFogeys better. But why not just ask directly, right? Feel free, however, it ignore.

Thanks, Dueeast. I really appreicate that. That's precisely what I"m hoping for when people read SF.

This may not come as a surprise to anyone who's read any of my stuff, but I think story is completely unnecessary for what I look for in a humor strip. If you're doing an ongoing storyline you pretty much have to sacrifice humor. You're really gonna have to have a lot of strips that aren't that funny but necessary to advance the plot. Plus, you've lost the freedom to put your characters in any situation, the jokes have to conform to the situation that the story demands, not an easy task and can lead to a host of desperate, uninspired one-liners.

I don't really see that in SF, I think the because the author doesn't feel obligated to end every strip with a punchline. The humor becomes more an ancillary thing to keep the mood light, but the drive of it is the story, and the jokes aren't tacked on in the last panel like a lot of story gag strips I've seen, more natural and what not. Anyways, I think if you come into it knowing that you can't have it both ways, and to mainly focus on one aspect of it, it can work. Strips that try to do both though, that try to end every strip with some forced joke, don't really work from what I've seen.

between humour annd story, I think story is more important. I mean people dont read or watch Ranma 1/2 or Full Metal Panic for the humour now, do they?

Exzachly, your comments really ring true to me. It seems that if story is a part of what you're doing, then you have to be true to that. The rules of story say that story trumps all. If humor trumped the story in the decision making process...well, that's a bit like making a special effects-laden blockbuster with a weak script. That's a lot of time and effort on something that doesn't amount to much.

I also like what Exzachly says about using humor as a mood setter. I guess I've been doing that without really thinking about it. I keep it light because the concept is inherently silly and the humor provides that tone. And tone and character-based humor is always funnier and better than a gag. I think so, anyways.

Man, I'm getting some real clarity with this thread!

Brock
I also like what Exzachly says about using humor as a mood setter. I guess I've been doing that without really thinking about it. I keep it light because the concept is inherently silly and the humor provides that tone. And tone and character-based humor is always funnier and better than a gag. I think so, anyways.

That's so true. I am hopelessly addicted to oldish sitcoms like Night Court, Wings, Cheers, Barney Miller, etc. I definitely watch them for "humor" but it isn't about jokes and punchlines. It's all about the characters and situations.

I don't think either is 'more important', but I'll confess one thing I hate:
Gag comics that turn into sentimental story comics.
It will generally all go downhill in a gag comic when the main character gets a steady girlfriend, or when the artist decides to take that strip in a more serious direction. Their thought process is like, "Well, I started this as a gag strip because I didn't want to be too serious and stuff. But people are liking my art and characters, so I guess I could do a serious story and they'd all read it, right?" So instead of testing this theory with a new, more serious comic, they suddenly start introducing serious elements into their gag strip.
Reasons I dislike this:
-Gag strip characters are often not fully developed enough to support a serious story. Most 'gamer' gag strips feature a caricature of the creator, usually made extra dumb for comic effect. It can be quite difficult to imagine one of these really dumb gaming obsessed characters to function in an adult relationship. The point I stopped Reading Megatokyo was when hints of LargoxErika started to appear.
-Format. Short daily gag strips need a punchline. The whole point is every morning you check your computer and get your daily laugh. If you did a serious 'Garfield' comic on a newspaper page, people's reaction would be '...wha?' I feel the same goes for gag strips.
-Reader expectations. This is why I think if a gag strip artist wants to do serious work, they should start a new comic. If readers like a comic, it doesn't just mean they like anything you draw or write. They may just like that particular comic's formula or humour.

If a comic starts out partially serious, then it's easier to lean toward the serious or toward the comic to suit the demands of the story. Whatever the case, it helps to have a strong cast. There are short strips which balance humour and serious stuff well, like 'Angel Moxie' out there (and 'Real Life' often manages better than most). Always having the characters act consistently to their established personalities helps tie humour and seriousness together, and injecting comedy into serious situations.

As the artist of a comic which is partially comedic in tone, I can't say I like either style better, because I combine them all the time. Maybe it's because I'm English, haha. For me, the epitome of coolness is to be able to say something witty and understated when faced with a crisis. If I hadn't established that the characters like to be funny and that it's a humorous comic early on, the effect would be jarring, so I try to keep the comedy as an element on most pages if I possibly can.