ozoneocean
Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, with no art at all, it's still not a comic... and you can still have a comic without text, the images can tell the (writen) story on their own. :wink:

You need both writing and art equally, although not in equal balance.

Well of course you need both. I don't think anyone is suggesting that either can be done away with completely :) I mean, do away with the art and you no longer have a comic :)

That said, you can (and should) use the artwork to tell part of the story, but you shouldn't use the dialog to reveal something about the art. Therefor there is writing in the dialog and the artwork, but there is only artwork in the artwork, not the dialog.

(and none of that crap about writing being an art. Of course it is. I'm using artwork to refer specifically to drawn works here ;) )

So you can say that the writing is more important, because it is a part of the whole comic, whereas the artwork is only in the visual aspect. Of course you can also say that the artwork is more important, because you can do everything with it.

Now that I've said that, I'm starting to lean back towards the artwork being more important, because of how much of the writing it can do for you :)

Australians just have such magnetic personalities mike Z. :-D

Now that I've said that, I'm starting to lean back towards the artwork being more important, because of how much of the writing it can do for you Smile

Ahhh Sam, coming around eh? :wink:
Naw, I still think it's a symbiosis.

ozoneocean
Ahhh Sam, coming around eh? :wink:

What can I say? I'm fickle :D

That's an easy question. The writing, no doubt. The only time art could beat that is when it's one of those fanservice-y comics that just has girls in revealing outfits.

Why the writing? Based on my avatar, you're probably willing to dismiss everything I'm saying because I'm a spriter, but hear me out. Almost all of the comics that I've seen come and go have been because of one simple thing, they don't know what they want to do with it. They might make a few cute jokes here and there, and once they hit 20 strips, they're flat out of ideas. Now generally, the more thought you put into the writing and what the plot is, the better the art turns out. But I've seen a few poorly drawn comics that are hilarious. White Ninja comics is a perfect example of that.

Plus, what's more memorable? The fact that someone can drawn manga or the fact that someone made an incredible chemistry between the characters where the reactions aren't forced? The reason I like Foxtrot is because of the character's personalities and how they manage to surprise and amuse me, without stepping out of their normal behavior.

Speaking specifically off of the topic of this forum (I didn't read through the other posts), I think when dealing with a comic, you are, in fact, dealing with art over story.

I'm not saying that for any personal reason, but I believe it's so. I think when people say they want a well-made comic, they want at least decent art, full proportions, coloring/shading/some form of art that is not pencil attempting to be photoshopped, and decent punctuation and grammar.

I could not BEAR to see a comic with AMAZING art have uncapitalized 'I's' and periods. I NEED those things in my comics. If, at the bear minimum, it tried to be funny, or tried to follow a simple story plot of revenge or rescue or SOMETHING in that genre, I would, most likely continue to come back.

However, I don't usually enjoy coming back to a comic, no matter how good it is, if I don't have enough work to read through...and I won't read through it if it has nothing of the upper listings available.

Bookmark comics are comics that appeal to certain people. All of my bookmarked comics have either great writing, great art, or even just great style (some have all three, some have just one!). If I see a comic, with bad pencil, and no textbubbles, with text typed in in paint? I will exit that SECOND.

Literally.

I've seen my share of crappy webcomics to not want to give a comic that even looks crappy a chance, no matter how much I hear good things about it. I need to be drawn in. But I digress.

Art, Story, Style. All three are the main factors in comics, and a good comic, can not be without one.

PS, as a side note: Comcis such as White Ninja are popular on account of their style. Their drawings are up-to-par (yes, that bad is still par), and the fact that the illustrator can draw poses, make well-made boxes, have a nicely designed website, add new characters and gags, and keep you coming back for more, is the reason it is very, very popular.

The comics I have bookmarked for example(listed in order of bookmark, not importance)?

http://www.pvponline.com

http://www.Ctrlaltdel-online.com

http://www.whiteninjacomics.com

http://www.vanvonhunter.com

http://www.comicswithoutviolence.com

http://www.gucomics.com

http://www.penny-arcade.com

http://www.vgcats.com

http://www.drmcninja.com

http://www.smbc-comics.com

http://www.elsiehooper.com (RECOMMENDED)

The only comic I like which has absolutly horrible art is this one.

They are both important in their own ways.

Art is like the stage of the plot. It is like a certain medium to show how the stories' images are displayed. The negative aspect is that when dealing with good and sophisticated art, one could be distracted to the art and forgets about the story.

Writing is a big part of the creativity. The story makes the audience to come back for more on the story. The negative aspect especially when you're doing updates, people can judge you before the story is even in the middle, like my comic for instance. I get it a lot of it (Hey, when is he gonna rock? this is your grade of your writing: F)

Writing can give excitement and with the art, the reult can be explosive.

Since a comic is BOTH writing and drawing. I believe that they are equally important.

The writing is the story, the dialogue, the jokes, the characters..

The art is the directing, the emotion of the characters, the setting, the action...

all very important.

Jillyfoo
Since a comic is BOTH writing and drawing. I believe that they are equally important.

The writing is the story, the dialogue, the jokes, the characters..

The art is the directing, the emotion of the characters, the setting, the action...

all very important.

exactly!

... a comic is like a movie... except with panels instead of POV and scene changes... a movie without writing gives no momentum to the picture, therefore there is nothing on screen, not even blackness... and a movie without picture is just a bunch of dialogue and sound. Both are vital to various kinds of success!

Relating comics to movies is a good analogy, especially since both have grown and matured in similar fashions and use very similar methods of story telling. Although, I have to admit that people get too hung up on the extremes. This isn't a black and white issue. It's not a case where there is a story or there isn't or there is an image or there isn't. Unfortunately there is no concrete way of arguing one way or another. Both artistic and literary quality are very subjective matters. What is one man's trash is another's treasure, so to speak. While some people may love a cookie-cutter story with generic character, no characterization, but pretty colors and artwork, another may prefer a comic with a more sofisticated storyline featuring crude drawings that look like they were drawn by a five-year-old. Both styles of comics sell in this country.

The same applies to movies. Some sell through the roof due to their action and special effects sequences, while others grab cult followings for snappy dialog and character development. One movie is not intrinsically superior to the other because individual people like different things.

.: isukun :.

Obviously, when a person runs into a comic, the art is going to be the first thing that catches their eye. A lot of times, if the art isn't appealing, then he/she will just breeze right past it without another thought. Not very fair, but that's just how it often is. Of course, good writing is also important. A reader might get bored with a comic if the writing isn't good. (And it goes without saying that correct grammer is also a biggie.)

All-in-all, most of the time it takes both good writing and good art to make a comic itself good. However, there are always exceptions to this; I've seen several examples of a comic that doesn't have particuarly great art, but the great writing in it makes up for it, so the reader doesn't focus too much on the art.

I don't think anyone can deny the fact that, regardles of the style of comic, the writing has to compliment the art so the art can compliment the writing. If the comic/graphic novel fails to do this, then you've lost readers.

There are comics out there that are beautiful to look at, but because the artist also wrote them (generalizing) ot s/he has a bad writer on board, you don't read it. Maybe not for everyone, but for me, if the writing is just horrible, I can't read it.

Then there are comics that are poorly drawn, but well written - but if you can't understand what's going on in the picture, then what's the point of having good solid dialogue? I don't know anyone that looks at these comics.

Granted, the drawing can be bad, but still get the point across, if what you're trying to do is a simplistic comic where all that's really important is the fact that you candistinguish guy a fro guy b. In these cases, plain, simple, even badly drawn art is fine, because you're not asking your reader to understand some phyicality of it - your not asking them to look at the final panel and get the visual gag. YOu're basically saying - see these two guys? They're talking. Read the balloons. I feel, in this case, something overly complex, and exceptionally well drawn would be too much for a reader.

I don't think one is more important than the other - that would be presumptuous. You have to know who your audience is, and draw and write for them.

The art has to work hard to show everything the writer wants it to show - to show off the creativity of the writer. But the writing has to work hard to showcase the art too. For instance, if an artist is horrible at drawing trees, it wuold be a poor writer who tells them to draw everyone in a forest.

Someone said it before - it's a symbiotic relationship - you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours type of deal.

Ha! I still say that NEITHER is more important than the other. You can have a comic without any writing at all though, without even a script written to create the pictures. Just put a whole lot of images together and people will interpret their own story from it. It’s been done more than a few times.
A story without pictures however is simply NOT a comic. Even a story with one or two pictures spaced through it every page or so isn’t a comic. :P

A debate about which is more important is stupid, if you care anything for comics at all then work out how you most prefer to make them. If all you care about is justifying why the thing you think you’re best at is the most important thing in the world, then you’re probably not a very well rounded individual. Everything has its plusses and minuses…

KC3T LV
I honestly thought this debate would be over by now. =(

...yeah...

In my option, it is the writing and pacing/layout that matter. Wether (bad english?) the art is pretty or ugly doesnt matter, its wether it fits the story or not that makes the difference. Ugly art can be good art.

I consider myself a writer but I think with comics it really is a marriage between the two, I think strong writing can make up for less than stellar art and beautiful art can make up for weak writing. I think it depends on the goal of the comic but I will always hold writing as number one in my heart.

The two have to work together with one another. A cool looking comic can be ruined by bad writing and vice versa. Thats something I'm trying to get better with currently, I finally have my art the way I want it and my writing skills are getting better. So its definitly a partnership between the two one helps the other as they trugde along.

Necroposter.

Mr. Neil
Asking whether art or story are more important when doing a comic is like asking which leg is more important when riding a bicycle.

Pffrrt, everybody knows it's the left leg.

use this simple forumalae:
Quality = Art X Writing

It isn't a matter of importance, the more you have of both the more the overall quality is. Bad art can bring down good writing, bad writing can bring down good art, either one can compensate for the other.. but to be really good you must aim to maximize both.

Well I am probubly just rehashing but imo both are equally important. I don't particularly like looking at poor art and neither do I like a boring story. Sadly I think comics are one of the hardest things to do. To master both is truely a gift.

I think that if you're great at one, you can get away with being "okay" at the other. People aren't going to tolerate something that's terrible in either, but if one really is outstanding, it can rose tint people's view of the other from "okay" to "OMGAWESOME". ;)

Neither are more important, rather that the two work well together.

Well, Scott Mccloud and Art Speigalman have shown us that awsome writing can make up for slacked art.

However, having good art never hurts.

I think writing is probably more important when it comes down to it, I've read plenty of graphic novels or comic books that had lovley art, but when it came down to it they were plain and uninsipired to read, bad plot ruins a story in a worse way than bad art.

I heard someone say: A good artist is a dime a dozen. A good writer is a dollar a dozen. A good comic needs both. And thats where you get in to something worthwhile