Awesome.

Giga, you have yet to disappoint me.

Did this guy just blow his million dollar idea on an open source proposal rather than lawyering it up with Nintendo?

mlai
Did this guy just blow his million dollar idea on an open source proposal rather than lawyering it up with Nintendo?

Yes. Yes he did.

So infrared camera, small lights on side of head...

Holy freak...that is awesome.

If they did implement something like this on a game, I doubt they would do it that way. They would either develop a new perifferal altogether or reverse it so that the wii remote is the device attached to your head. I think a new perifferal is more likely, though.

Also, this isn't really anything special in terms of technical prowess. It's been done before. VR technology was doing this long ago and we've seen games in the arcades which change your perspective based on location. It's also a pretty common technology in the movie business. Police 911 also came to the PS2, using a webcam to approximate the player's position relative to the screen. The newer cameras for the 360 and PS3 could probably do an even better job with the more advanced motion detection.

Holy crap, that's cool! I love all the things people are doing with the Wiimote.
I need to get me some kind of bluetooth adapter for my PC and start playing with all the Wiimote applications people are doing.

They need to figure out how to turn this whole deal into an anyglyph. Then it's look 3D to the people who have two eyes. That might be difficult to integrate into a good looking game cause it would have to render twice as much.

LIZARD_B1TE

mlai
Did this guy just blow his million dollar idea on an open source proposal rather than lawyering it up with Nintendo?

Yes. Yes he did.

Yeah he was an idiot for posting that up on YouTube. Still, that's a freakin' awesome concept there. If I was smart enough, I would try that with my Wii.

LIZARD_B1TE

mlai
Did this guy just blow his million dollar idea on an open source proposal rather than lawyering it up with Nintendo?

Yes. Yes he did.

Nope. No he didn't. I saw a copyright at the end. He can also use this video and its release date as proof that he created the programming. He showed us how the hardware works, but not how he got the software to work, which is the important part.

Well, from his tone at the end, it sounded like he didn't so much care about profiting from his idea... He just wanted game companies to use it to make better games. At least, that's what it sounded like. I hope somebody does it.

It doesn't really matter, anyway. The actual uses for this idea are so incredibly limited, I doubt anyone would want to actually put in the effort to program it into a game. All it does is create a sort of "looking through a window" effect. In terms of gameplay, the actual uses for this are incredibly limited. You can't use it as a control scheme for a FPS since in order for it to work, the player has to be facing the TV and within the cone of detection of the sensor bar and Wii remote. Seems a little gimmicky and expensive for something that amounts to simply an alternative method for looking around corners.

What's more, the camera with motion detection method actually works better since it simply detects a position in space and isn't reliant on a heading. It gives the player the freedom to move how they want within the detection area.

Also, this particular use of the wii remote and sensor bar poses the same problem you get with other pointer functions. The size and position of your TV will greatly effect how well this works. Regardless of the size and positioning of the TV, the perspective will always change to the same degree, meaning you have to have a TV of a particular size and the controller must be positioned in the exact right location or the perspective won't look right.

isukun
Logic.

Why must you ruin our fantasies with logic!?

isukun
It doesn't really matter, anyway. The actual uses for this idea are so incredibly limited, I doubt anyone would want to actually put in the effort to program it into a game. All it does is create a sort of "looking through a window" effect. In terms of gameplay, the actual uses for this are incredibly limited.

I would think that this could provide excellent game play for first person shooters. However it would be pretty limited for anything else.

While Isukun provides excellent logic here, I think he's completely missed the boat. IMO he'd be 1 of those experts who curses himself for missing the gravy train because he's too cynical and expected too much from consumer intelligence.

I mean, he's the type of person who would have thought that the PS3 would outsell the Wii (not that this is Isukun's stated opinion; I'm using an example).

Actually, I'm thinking more in terms of cost to develop. I always assume consumers are not that intelligent, but in this case, the actual gameplay uses for such a feature are too limited. Developers would need to spend time and money developing a more consumer-friendly way of implementing this, most likely involving new hardware. They can't exactly rely on the consumer to make custom mods to their hardware to make this sort of thing work, especially when you have the technical issues I mentioned before.

Then the developer has to come up with at least two solid, sellable game ideas which utilize the hardware. If you can't push software with the hardware, then development is a waste of time and money. They have to convince consumers that it isn't just a gimmick and adds some unique gameplay element that makes the game totally different from other games. In most cases, though, the hardware is built around a unique software concept and not the other way around. In most cases where you have the opposite, the hardware has been a flop.

Well the consumers won't be making their own mods. Like the video said, all the dev needs to do is get a goggle, put 2 lasers on it, and stamp 'Nintendo Wii' on the front. I don't think that guy in the video made any more hardware mods besides that (and his own program of course).

If Nintendo can sell a stupid plastic gun frame, include a Link mini-game, and call that a new peripheral, it can surely do this.

I think this peripheral is basically for adding a new *unobtrusive* function to all games. Of course it's best for FPS, but it'll work just was well for RTS, for RPG, for sports, etc etc etc. It can be an option in the game menu. "Turn to ON if you have Wii goggles plugged into 2P port."

IMO it's like saying the option for Stereo Surround is just a gimmick, with too narrow a consumer target.

As for the "limited movement range." Where's the problem? The Wii remote has the same problem (and lag, and all the other shortcomings you mentioned) and Wii's still selling.

Like the video said, all the dev needs to do is get a goggle, put 2 lasers on it, and stamp 'Nintendo Wii' on the front.

Odds are, the developer would have to strip down a wii-mote to use the sensor in the wii-mote rather than reverse the controls like the guy in the video. Besides being more confusing for the consumer, the controller has a few other issues that make it impractical for this use. Plus I doubt Nintendo would let a developer do it the way it's done in the video. They could make more from licensing the actual wii remote hardware than the could from a pair of glasses with IR emitters (also it works better the other way since your head has a greater range of detectable motion and simply strapping an IR sensor to your head only detects position, not direction).

Of course it's best for FPS

Actually, what I said was that it's not ideal for FPSs. Because of the limited range of detection, you can't use it as a control device in a FPS. Even using it to look around corners would be a pain since it wouldn't work up close and players would be forced to get up and actually walk five feet or so to simulate a simple lean.

but it'll work just was well for RTS, for RPG, for sports, etc etc etc. It can be an option in the game menu. "Turn to ON if you have Wii goggles plugged into 2P port."

Which is precisely the kind of implementation they tried to get out of devices like the Eyetoy and the 360 camera, both of which never went beyond being a gimmicky control device that never sold. The wii zapper has more appeal because it is built around certain gamplay mechanics. As I said before, you're working in reverse here and generally that doesn't work as well, especialy when you're talking about an accessory that's sold seperately.

IMO it's like saying the option for Stereo Surround is just a gimmick, with too narrow a consumer target.

Many games still don't support surround sound. Even so, though, most people aren't buying a surround sound system for the wii. It is an element of their home theater system that is widely used for movies, music, and gaming. Consumers generally buy home theater systems for all three functions, not just a single game on a single system, and quite honestly, home theater setups are getting incredibly common these days. More common than HDTVs.

As for the "limited movement range." Where's the problem? The Wii remote has the same problem (and lag, and all the other shortcomings you mentioned) and Wii's still selling.

Because developers work around the limitations of the system. This is a proposed function which can't work around those limitations. You can't ignore the fact that the player has to look at the TV constantly to maintain a connection with the game. They may need to make larger motions than if they were simply using the remotes as intended (something that could potentially be dangerous if their attention is dedicated to the TV screen). Any obstruction (like waving your hands in front of your head) would break the connection with the game and that could pose problems for programmers.

Honestly, I think all these problems you're listing, Isukun, wholly depend on what level of immersion one is looking for from this device. If you're looking at it as a control system, it's got a lot of flaws. Essentially if you see it as just making the game more immersive, it works fine. All it does is make the stuff on screen alter slightly based on how you move your head.

Still, I don't think that this thing is going to do so well in the market. There's just no real demand for it, and the problem with the peripheral is that it's essentially a separate piece of hardware. Devices like the Wii remote have existed for years, and basically have seen no use in the gaming market. The only reason it's doing well now is because it's been made the standard, as opposed to the exception. It's rare for exceptions to do so well on the market as to be regular implements of programming. How many lightgun games have you seen on home consoles over the years?

What I think it would work well for is an on-rails light gun game like Keisatsu-911 (can't remember its American name). It's the motion-detecting arcade game where you're a cop in Japan and you can duck behind objects for cover.

Really, this idea is ideal because nobody wants to purchase and build a motion-detecting armature in their home. With this, they can just put on those glasses and it's even more reliable than the arcade game's sometimes glitchy motion detecting. The glasses and wiimote stand would be pretty dang cheap to create, and the only other limitation is that the player must own a second Wiimote.

That's just applying it to games we already know. I imagine you could have some pretty neat games where you're dodging things (like punches or fireballs) by leaning.

I wanna see this happen.

Police 911 was ported to the PS2 using a light gun and a webcam (not the eyetoy since it ame out before that) and worked just as well as the arcade version. The problem with this method is that the web cam version doesn't require the player to be facing the TV at all times in order to detect where they are, making the game function more like the arcade version, while a wii equivalent using this control method would require the player to be further back from the TV and always facing the sensor bar.

The glasses and wiimote stand would be pretty dang cheap to create, and the only other limitation is that the player must own a second Wiimote.

That's another reason why the reverse detection method would never be as marketable as simply creating an all new controller (besides the power saver issue since the wii remotes automatically shut down after a certain amount of time if a button isn't pressed). No matter what, there is no practical way to market or utilize the reverse detection method. The sensor from the wii remote needs to be attached to the player, not the IR emitters. The guy in the video probably did it the other way around because it's easier to program that way, but there is no way to practically implement it.

isukun
Police 911 was ported to the PS2 using a light gun and a webcam (not the eyetoy since it ame out before that) and worked just as well as the arcade version.

Glitchy? Awesome.

isukun
The problem with this method is that the web cam version doesn't require the player to be facing the TV at all times in order to detect where they are, making the game function more like the arcade version, while a wii equivalent using this control method would require the player to be further back from the TV and always facing the sensor bar.

LOL! I've always wanted to play a videogame with my back to the TV! I imagine anyone using this Wii method to play a game would be incredibly disappointed that they couldn't look at their couch while playing. The couch is where the action is!

You just desperately want to disprove any Wii innovation, don't you?

isukun
That's another reason why the reverse detection method would never be as marketable as simply creating an all new controller (besides the power saver issue since the wii remotes automatically shut down after a certain amount of time if a button isn't pressed). No matter what, there is no practical way to market or utilize the reverse detection method. The sensor from the wii remote needs to be attached to the player, not the IR emitters. The guy in the video probably did it the other way around because it's easier to program that way, but there is no way to practically implement it.

That's conjecture on your part I guess. Who knows? Whether or not it's practical would be anyone's guess. But I still want to play a game like that. By the way, the remote doesn't turn off if it's tracking the infrared lights, so you wouldn't have to worry about it shutting off.

So you're suggesting they put another Wiimote camera on the glasses so it's looking at the same sensor bar that the aiming Wiimote is using? I suppose that could work just as well.

Glitchy? Awesome.

You must have a bad machine, when I would play out at the local DB back in the DC area, the controls were pretty spot on for me.

LOL! I've always wanted to play a videogame with my back to the TV! I imagine anyone using this Wii method to play a game would be incredibly disappointed that they couldn't look at their couch while playing. The couch is where the action is!

One may want to see the couch so they don't trip over it. Or possibly the coffee table or any other furniture that isn't directly in front of them. The way the system is designed, you couldn't even look sideways or even turn your head more than 45 degrees from the direction of the television without it losing track of you.

By the way, the remote doesn't turn off if it's tracking the infrared lights, so you wouldn't have to worry about it shutting off.

All four of mine do.

So you're suggesting they put another Wiimote camera on the glasses so it's looking at the same sensor bar that the aiming Wiimote is using? I suppose that could work just as well.

That's the most practical way of doing things, plus it would work a little better since consumers wouldn't have to have a second controller to make it work, plus the headset could detect some directional data rather than just the position in front of the sensor.

Hawk

isukun
The problem with this method is that the web cam version doesn't require the player to be facing the TV at all times in order to detect where they are, making the game function more like the arcade version, while a wii equivalent using this control method would require the player to be further back from the TV and always facing the sensor bar.

LOL! I've always wanted to play a videogame with my back to the TV! I imagine anyone using this Wii method to play a game would be incredibly disappointed that they couldn't look at their couch while playing. The couch is where the action is!

You just desperately want to disprove any Wii innovation, don't you?

OR maybe you might hear a loud noise and have to turn away from the TV, or you might just say "Oh, what's the cat doing over there?" Or maybe someone knocks on your door, or you have to answer the phone.

There are plenty of things to cause people from looking away from the TV.

Also, it's not really Wii innovation. ANY system could do this. Using the Wiimote for it is PROBABLY the most clunky and annoying way you possibly could. So it becomes "Use a new peripheral". Which ANY system is capable of.

So you look away from the TV for a second. And the game loses track of your head while you're looking away. So what? You're not looking at the screen so what do you care? As soon as you turn back to the TV, the game's immediately on track again.

As for the PS3-mote. Yeah ok, any system can have motes. That must be why we're seeing all these new PS3-motes on the shelves, not.

mlai
So you look away from the TV for a second. And the game loses track of your head while you're looking away. So what? You're not looking at the screen so what do you care? As soon as you turn back to the TV, the game's immediately on track again.

As for the PS3-mote. Yeah ok, any system can have motes. That must be why we're seeing all these new PS3-motes on the shelves, not.

Doesn't have to be and probably shouldn't be a mote. That's the point Isukun's been trying to make. It would be better as either the headgear thing (Which any system can do), or one of the Eye's (Which would probably be best since it's an existing piece of hardware).

Okay, here's a fun fact: if you're playing Metroid Prime 3, and for whatever reason you stop pointing at the screen, the game does not explode. The camera basically stays where you last left it, and re-orients itself once you point at it again.

...

Sooo... yeah. I seriously doubt that it's inability to keep track of where you are while you're not looking directly at the screen is going to be an insurmountable challenge.

I think the problem here is that you're assuming that this technology is going to require complex, full-body motions. That people are going to be jumping and ducking. And sure, some people are, but those are the same people who think they have to swing their whole arm as if swinging a sword to play Legend of Zelda.

Okay, here's an example from my life. When playing a first-person video game, if I'm looking straight up, I tend to habitually tilt my head upward. I don't stand up, crane my head, etc. Basically, with this technology, the slight tilt of my head would actually enhance my ability to see, instead of just making me look like a doofus. That's the potential of this technology; as a gameplay element unto itself its a bit lacking. But as a system by which it can enhance existing mechanics, it's great. I still don't think it's going to catch on (since there's no real "demand" for it, apart from some Asian guy on Youtube and a couple of people who saw his video), but I wouldn't dismiss the idea as wholly valueless.

I concede the thing about looking at the screen.

However, I continue with the thing about it being a new peripheral that can go on any system.

What's a PS3-mote?

Anyway, this is awesome. I've gotta tell Izzy11 (he has a wii, I use to try and go over to his house in an attempt to dominate it)