But if what you draw is "cute" how can anyone classify it as being a cliche when you're just doing what you're good at? That's like saying comic books in general are cliche because they have been around for 100 years, am I right?

Everything has it's origins. "Demon Babes" are most likely from succubi; female vampire-type creatures that are usually depicted as hot babes that seduce men and steal their souls/drain their blood. "Cute Demons" come from the juxtaposition of horrible monsters with the realm of child's art. It's kind of like irony; taking something that is usually disgusting and gross and flipping it around to being completely tolerable.

I see enough realistic demon designs in fantasy novels. I've never seen too many "cute demons" in my comics (although I usually avoid reading the stuff most of you guys read) but I'm sure they exist in the same realm of "done to death" as half-naked leather wearing elves, big buff he-men, heroes in tights, and harem manga filled with oblivious moe stereotypes.

But when you think about it, how much attention are given to experimental comics? You can call things cliche's all you want, but when a comic breaks the mold, it's usually too "weird" or "different" for most and they either complain about the way the industry is or go right back to reading the same crap again. Minus is criticized because the main character has god-like powers and her childish curiosity leads to the downfall or death of other characters yet these same critics don't pay attention to the small details or beautiful art that set it apart from everything else? The Rainbow Orchid that was one of the first comics to use a "comic-within-comic" format (I think Krazy Kat was the first, I'm not sure) or the equally absurd and oddly knowing Pokey the Penguin ?

My point is, people like what they like and do what they like doing. A cliche isn't a word or idea that's used to death so much as it's an expression that loses it's meaning yet is still used. For example, "One fell swoop" is an archaic expression yet is commonly used. How many people nowadays even know that fell once meant "fatal" instead of the past-tense version of fall?

If you don't like an idea because you think it's cliche, then fix it. Strive to do something different but make sure it's what you like. If you're not true to yourself and you aim for a demographic simply because you want their attention, then you lose respect in my eyes. I'd rather read a Goth comic from an actual goth or someone interested in goth culture than one from someone who only wants the attention of goths. I can't stand posers.

Urgh, what a rant.

As I see it in comic worlds, anything can happen. We can make demons being heroes and angels being the villains.

There are so many topics in comics that could lead to controversy but most of us get attracted to controversial topics and stories. It's something people would like to talk about.

Making demons cute is a way to play on someone phsycology. We can create a comic with everything that is inverted like white is evil and black is good.

Manga/Anime have tons of controversial storylines that could be disgusting yet attractive because that is a part of how you could put your creativity in a twisted way. Most of us on DD, we do put lots of twisted things to spice up our storylines whether you have to agree with it or not.

Not even manga, does Daredevil rings a bell? It's a superhero with a devil costume going to fight crimes. I'm a christian but I'm an open mind towards things that matters. So, having a demon being cute isn't as twisted as putting a brother and a sister having an intercourse... that's hardcore (in a bad way).

As Eric Bischoff once said: Controversy Creates Ca$h. So, if you'd want to make it a big deal or not, that is up to you. This is my point of view on the topic. I'm not trying to offend anyone.

usedbooks
like a supervillain who wants to destroy the world for no apparent reason

Actually, the current super villain fad/cliche is the opposite. These days it seems that every super villain has to believe themselves morally right and fighting for a good cause. Everyone seems to suffer from a dire case of "Magneto syndrome".

The reality is that there are people who are just plain nasty in real life, whether playground bullies, hired hitmen or mafia bosses and - if there were such a thing as a super villain community - that would have its share, too.

DAJB
The reality is that there are people who are just plain nasty in real life, whether playground bullies, hired hitmen or mafia bosses and - if there were such a thing as a super villain community - that would have its share, too.

I disagree. I don't think that anyone is really "evil" for no reason, from their own perspective. Even people who can be mindlessly nasty are just ordinary people: the fact is, mindlessly nasty people aren't some special case, anyone can fall into that trap and commit those acts. It just comes down to not caring about the negative consequences of your actions. Heh, I've known plenty of bullies and they were all really good people, apart from the bullying...

Sorry, but we are ALL like that to varying degrees. So it's not the capacity to commit the acts that matters so much, but the act of committing them, the reasons for it, and probably most important; the perspective of the victim. And it's only during the acts that the person is "evil". Ah philosophising... :P

Anyway, yeah, it's better to have "villains" who have a reason to be a villain. Even Hitler wasn't evil to his own way of thinking...

The way I like to handle it in my comic is just to have antagonists... There are no "evil" people, just people with divergent aims. If anything, evil is in the actions, both the protagonists and the antagonists.

ozoneocean
There are no "evil" people, just people with divergent aims.

Well, I disagree with that insofar as it relates to the real world, but that discussion has already been had in another thread, so I won't resurrect it here. I'll just agree to differ.

ozoneocean
The way I like to handle it in my comic is just to have antagonists...

Me, too. But that's because - in a work of fiction - a villain (or antagonist) is far more interesting to write and read about if he does the things he does for a reason, rather than just because he enjoys hurting others and destroying things.

Someone

Someone
So moral of the story:

Don't try so hard to be original.

you should all be trying to be flipping original, why the hell not?

i know my comics a bit out there, but at least im trying to bring crazy structure to my graphics and poetry to my narrative. You guys shouldnt be writing about demons or wind spirits just because thats whats become the popular web comic art form.

You should be being as original as possible it may be your chance to be your best chance to be different and acomplish something you never knew you could.

Most of us on DD, we do put lots of twisted things to spice up our storylines whether you have to agree with it or not.

because that stuff wont pass if this was published comics or mainstreamed. The beauty of the "underground"... :)

These days it seems that every super villain has to believe themselves morally right and fighting for a good cause.

Its much more interesting that way. Thats one thing I liked about X-Men and Naruto. Every villain believes he/she is fighting for a good cause.

Isn't that what the world's real "villains" are (according to one's perspective)? Al quaeda believes it is fighting the USA great satan infidels... While USA believes it is the fighting force of freedom and democracy and it has a moral obligation to spread it around the world. Same as every rebel group in any country. Look how they like to talk about revolution all the time in their propaganda.

Though I agree with you a bit on people being just plain nasty. Psychopaths. A psychopath doesnt necessarily mean foaming at the mouth like a mental hospital patient. A psychopath can be a CEO or can occupy high positions in society. A psychopath doesnt feel remorse or guilt when they do morally questionable things. In fact, those morally questionable things are planned and calculated.

Heh, I've known plenty of bullies and they were all really good people, apart from the bullying...

lol! They're good if they dont bully you right? lol

you should all be trying to be flipping original, why the hell not?

I think that too much originality can be bad. Fine. make something totally original and its not really gonna "click" with the general audience. Could be a possibility. Because like what I said about cliches. Cliches become cliches because they were considered things that work to get people to like em.

Originality requires INTELLIGENCE.

However, INTELLIGENCE is NOT COOL for everyone.

For example, how the hell did that SOULJA BOY CRANK DAT become popular? Like wtf?!? Look at its lyrics!!! That song has been dissed all over even by Rap fans. The INTELLIGENT black people condemned that song because it makes black people look stupid.

Whydid such a dumb song become popular?

I think it was the rhythm and beats... as well as the 17-year old factor of Soulja Boy.

Even in webcomics. I checked the featured comic section here at DD. And NOT all of them should be in there if you were to ask me. But you never know. Those are stuff that "clicked" one way or another.

just my 2-cents. :)

kyupol

Heh, I've known plenty of bullies and they were all really good people, apart from the bullying...

lol! They're good if they dont bully you right? lol

That's not really what I was saying Kyupol... I've known a lot of bullies, and even though during the act of bullying they're not good people, when they're not doing that they're just fine. It doesn't matter who they bully. I'm just trying to say that life is way more complicated than having people who you can put a label on their head and say they're "bad" and some are "good". ANYbody, all of us are all able to be the bad guy.

And if you take that attitude (that life is more complex), to your fiction, well then, you'll have a more grown up, intelligent piece of work. But perhaps it won't be as fun or as easy to read for younger, less discerning, or perhaps less able readers. :)

you should all be trying to be flipping original, why the hell not?

There's a difference between originality and absurdity. Every idea has been before; there's not a single thing you can write about that hasn't been established before in some form. The only way to innovate is with presentation and this is where good writing and art come in. You originate by being yourself. Tolkien's fantasy universe was nothing seen outside of religious text and old European myths but he created an entire universe with his own hands and filled it with rich and deep characters that ended up becoming stereotypes of the genre (haughty elf, angry dwarf, ignorant human, humble hobbit, etc.).

You guys shouldnt be writing about demons or wind spirits just because thats whats become the popular web comic art form.

What you fail to understand is that (and I'll bold this for extra effect) if what we want to write about is demons and fairies then that's what we'll write about. Spirits and demons have been around for centuries, are you going to tell me that the religions or faiths that believe in them are unoriginal because they still follow old context that they exist in the first place?

Spirits and demons are no more popular in webcomics as using black lines for borders are. If you can write an effective story involving spirits and demons, then you're a better person than someone who writes something original but sucks at it.

Why did such a dumb song become popular?

I think it was the rhythm and beats...

You just answered your question. It's a dance song, you dance to it. It doesn't have to be intelligent as long as you're moving your feet.

ozoneocean
I disagree. I don't think that anyone is really "evil" for no reason, from their own perspective. Even people who can be mindlessly nasty are just ordinary people: the fact is, mindlessly nasty people aren't some special case, anyone can fall into that trap and commit those acts. It just comes down to not caring about the negative consequences of your actions. Heh, I've known plenty of bullies and they were all really good people, apart from the bullying...
Sorry, but we are ALL like that to varying degrees. So it's not the capacity to commit the acts that matters so much, but the act of committing them, the reasons for it, and probably most important; the perspective of the victim. And it's only during the acts that the person is "evil". Ah philosophising... :P
Anyway, yeah, it's better to have "villains" who have a reason to be a villain. Even Hitler wasn't evil to his own way of thinking...
The way I like to handle it in my comic is just to have antagonists... There are no "evil" people, just people with divergent aims. If anything, evil is in the actions, both the protagonists and the antagonists.

I am pasting this entire post into my comics' scrapbook txt file, and in some way shape or form it will be incorporated into something my Big Bad says when he's bantering with the main characters.

Not "But not before I expound on the purpose of the universe while we stand perfectly still." pre-fight banter, LOL. Just normal fireside chatter.

Aw man... That does sound EXACTLY like the long boring speeches by the evil effeminate bad guys in most anime... ;_:

I am a cutout effeminate anime villain guy. T_T
I'm going to have to shave, bleach my hair white and wear robes with massive shoulderpads all the time now.
Aw jebus... :(

ozoneocean
Aw man... That does sound EXACTLY like the long boring speeches by the evil effeminate bad guys in most anime... ;_:

I am a cutout effeminate anime villain guy. T_T
I'm going to have to shave, bleach my hair white and wear robes with massive shoulderpads all the time now.
Aw jebus... :(

you forgot the sandels.

ozoneocean
I'm going to have to shave, bleach my hair white and wear robes with massive shoulderpads all the time now.
Aw jebus... :(

You don't have to shave. You just need this avatar.

mlai

ozoneocean
I'm going to have to shave, bleach my hair white and wear robes with massive shoulderpads all the time now.
Aw jebus... :(

You don't have to shave. You just need this avatar.

hey, it's beethoven! or some other composer!

I am pasting this entire post into my comics' scrapbook txt file, and in some way shape or form it will be incorporated into something my Big Bad says when he's bantering with the main characters.

wow. I guess I'm not the only one who does that.

I copy paste ENTIRE POSTS I find useful in other forums, news stories, and articles as well. Its useful in a way it helps you formulate dialog on your character.

I've known a lot of bullies, and even though during the act of bullying they're not good people, when they're not doing that they're just fine. It doesn't matter who they bully.

I guess thats where the "hate the SIN not the SINNER" mentality in moderate Christians came from. :)

kyupol
I think that too much originality can be bad. Fine. make something totally original and its not really gonna "click" with the general audience. Could be a possibility. Because like what I said about cliches. Cliches become cliches because they were considered things that work to get people to like em.

Originality requires INTELLIGENCE.

However, INTELLIGENCE is NOT COOL for everyone.

I dont belive you serriously think originalitys not good in this field man. You think allen moore when he wrote miracleman or neil gaimen with sandman, was being unoriginal or uninteligent?? WTF?? than?, sure they used cliches by turning them around on themselves putting them out of context sure. But thats being original
sure everythings a big roundabout but you gotta find new ways of using that or your nowhere.
theres plenty of other ways aswell ,new techniques theres plenty out there for you guys the softwares endless, anyone can make an animation now in a matter of hours or write a tune if they get there head outta there @~C$. you dont even need to be able to draw anymore and thats all good.

totally agree with the angry black guy, but its not just in the presentation its the ideas that hold the magic, you guys need to experiment more with being true to yourselves not whoring for readers who like your little cliches and ratings.

Who are u talking to?

not you milau your styles great, sort of like somewhere inbetween Dave Mckeans illustrations in Cages and more conventional comics.

F_Allen
not you milau your styles great, sort of like somewhere inbetween Dave Mckeans illustrations in Cages and more conventional comics.

McKean's Cages?!? LOL that's a new one. You must mean Ed's pages. I'm glad you like Ed's style.

What I meant in my previous post was that you were preaching to the choir.

yeah i realise, i didnt mean you guys lol, stressedbecause of an interview didnt take time to check out you guys comics. Cages is a comic by illustrator Dave Mckean who did all the funky covers for the sandman. Its an incredble book if you can find it.

All this talk about demons and no one says anything about my comic.
Well I'm trying to going away from sexy and cute demons.

Does my comic support the stereotype to steer away from it?
http://www.drunkduck.com/Demon_Eater/

usedbooks
Maybe I picked out the wrong words...

Topic title:

Someone
whats with all this cute little devils and the demon babes?

"all this" = cliche

It is "cute devils" that are being called cliche, not "cute" in general. (Though cutsifying all kinds of things can be seen as a fad too.)

Since when has cutsiying things been a fad at all? It's a style. If making things "cute" is a cliche than so is dadaism, cubism, and pop art and all sorts of other different styles. I haven't seen "demon babes" any more than actual demons themselves in comics.

JillyFoo
All this talk about demons and no one says anything about my comic.
Well I'm trying to going away from sexy and cute demons.

Does my comic support the stereotype to steer away from it?
http://www.drunkduck.com/Demon_Eater/

Its an abstract demon. Or at least maybe in the first few issues of it when Saturno kept on changing shapes.

As for stereotypes I dont think its about this cute sexy demon thing. Just the ugly terrifying type.

Have any of you guys ever BEEn with a demon babe? I'm just saying... >_>

Hyptosis
Have any of you guys ever BEEn with a demon babe? I'm just saying... >_>

well my 1 year old daughter was a brat at her birthday party...
oh you meant "babe" as in hottie...um...can't say that I have.
Also while I am typing this, "demon babe" could also be Babe from the oscar award winning movie with the talking sheep-herding pig.
That makes me giggle to imagine that babe being demonic...

I love all of my little demon babes (all over the age of 18). ;P

TheMidge28
Also while I am typing this, "demon babe" could also be Babe from the oscar award winning movie with the talking sheep-herding pig.
That makes me giggle to imagine that babe being demonic...

Wait... You that ISN'T what this whole threads been about!?

Hyptosis
Have any of you guys ever BEEn with a demon babe? I'm just saying... >_>

I did.

And you know what, I almost went to hell because of her (IF I did a murder and suicide).

Now I got an angel for a girlfriend. (see avatar... lol) lol!

Also while I am typing this, "demon babe" could also be Babe from the oscar award winning movie with the talking sheep-herding pig.
That makes me giggle to imagine that babe being demonic...

That BABE is possessed by the devil. lol!