I'm serious you guys. Cliche and trashy things are getting way more credit than they deserve. Look at the movie Narnia: it was amazingly done, had a beautiful message, and set the standard for fantasy stories that came after it.
Then look at The 40-year-old Virgin. I have heard people say it's their favorite movie. Why? They say because it's funny. I watched ten minutes of that movie and I felt like throwing up. Now I'm not picking on this movie particularly, but all others like it. The fact is that anybody can make a perverted joke; anybody can strip a woman down and put her in front of a camera. You may enjoy it, or think it's cool, but why?

Why do people enjoy these kinds of movies/games/TV shows? Ones that are filled to the brim with jokes we've heard over and over- people taking something simple like 'stick' and making it something sexual.

If you enjoy it, please help me try to understand why you do. And, if you don't, share your opinions. Why do you think this is?

I'm not trying to be judgemental, nor do I think I'm better than anybody. I just want to understand why.

Narnia? Why would you pick Narnia as your example? 2 reasons it's a bad example:

1. It's based on books.
2. Ppl will invariably say the books are better.

Use... say, Pan's Labyrinth as your example instead.

Because it's familiar. Most people are just comfortable braying like trained seals every time someone points out that Object A is slightly phallic.

Also, how can you not love the Forty Year Old Virgin? I MEAN HAHA HOLY SHIT HE'S LIKE FORTY AND HE NEVER HAD NO SEX. HAHAHAHAHAHA *VOMIT*.

Emirii
You may enjoy it, or think it's cool, but why?

Your question is why do people like what they like?

Emirii
I'm serious you guys. Cliche and trashy things are getting way more credit than they deserve. Look at the movie Narnia: it was amazingly done, had a beautiful message, and set the standard for fantasy stories that came after it.
Then look at The 40-year-old Virgin. I have heard people say it's their favorite movie. Why? They say because it's funny.

Why do people enjoy these kinds of movies/games/TV shows? Ones that are filled to the brim with jokes we've heard over and over- people taking something simple like 'stick' and making it something sexual.

If you enjoy it, please help me try to understand why you do. And, if you don't, share your opinions. Why do you think this is?

There is no "why". People like what they like and don't what they don't.

For example, you quoted Narnia as an example of a good film. I found it riddled with cliche, bad acting and special effects I'd seen done before. Far from "setting a standard", it fell well short of the magic of, say, LotR or Pan's Labyrinth. To me, it was nothing more than a cynical attempt to ride the popularity of the Harry Potter films. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong ... just that people see things in different ways.

As for the Forty Year Old Virgin, sure, it baffles me that anyone could list this among their favourite movies of all time but it was okay, light-hearted, slightly juvenile fun. I didn't think it was good but, on balance, I found it no worse a comedy than Narnia was a fantasy.

Maybe it's an argument about taste? Or maybe it's about "popular taste"; a slightly different thing.

I don't like Harry Potter on principal... I mean, I grew up reading books on exactly that theme, hundreds of the things and then a particular series by one person becomes SUPER MEGA FAMOUS, and she was basically following an age old trend that's been around for a hundred years or so.

I think part of the thing is the herd mentality, it's just part of being a social species: if something appeals generally and gets a good buzz around it for whatever reason, it'll pick up like wildfire and a huge majority will love it. So certain things become HUGELY popular and other things that are exactly the same, even better, or much more original or whatever never reach the heights because they weren't lucky enough to get that buzz at that time... Or their promotion just wasn't as good.

You can see that a lot if you look at bands from the 60's and 70's. The Beatles, Pink Floyd, The Kinks, Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones,- groups like that were massive and they were good, but there were a lot of others just as good and talented around at the same time that never reach the same level; I dunno... Soft Machine, Caravan etc.

Ha, we know from the world of webcomics that a lot of middling work is at the peak, while there's heaps of exceptional work on the fringes. And that's to do with circumstance rather than quality or "cliche".

So maybe that's the real answer?

ZOMG They don't like what I like! They R TEH SUX0RS!

*cough* sorry bout that.

Narnia was a beautiful story. Lewis has written some lovely stuff. At the same time, the 40 year old virgin was what it was -- kinda funny, kinda stupid. Oh well.

Emirii
Cliche and trashy things are getting way more credit than they deserve.

There are no original ideas in Hollywood anymore. Every time I see a movie that seems new and fresh it turns out to be a rewrite of a book or a remake of a movie I never saw from 50 years ago. The only "new" ideas are what a buddy calls "embarrassment comedies". Those lame comedies where the central idea is some "lovable looser" who keeps doing lame send ups of three stooges pratfalls and long strings of embarrassing moments. Blech.

I dunno. Cliche's do cause redundancy, but not all cliche's are a bad thing. Cliche's are familiar, and they make one feel good. Cliche's often include valuable points, and morals. They are inspiring, and take the pressure off a situation. When you know the good guy is going to win or learn the valuable lesson, and it happens, pressure is lifted. Now, when the cliche malfunctions, it's like losing a bet for your favorite team in a sports game. If you were cheering for the main character who you can relate to, and are inspired by, and he/she ends up with the goal unrealized, and winds up either forever unhappy, or dead, then what has the movie accomplished? What do you have? You've got two hours of shit. And when you get up, to walk out of the theater, all that excrement coats your shoes and pant legs, and you go home uninspired and unimpressed, only to be reminded that your garments are sullied, and you must cleanse them, and
DO YOU KNOW HOW DIFFICULT AND PAINSTAKING IT IS TO CLEAN
CRAP OFF YOUR SHOES!?

YoungNastyMan
If you were cheering for the main character who you can relate to, and are inspired by, and he/she ends up with the goal unrealized, and winds up either forever unhappy, or dead, then what has the movie accomplished? What do you have? You've got two hours of shit.

That is so wrong in so many ways. All a Character has to do to experience drama from Aristotle's point of view is learn something.

Think about a classic drama like Raging Bull, Does Jake LaMotta realize all his dreams? No, he ends up fat, broke and lonely. But he does learn something about the world and his place in it.

What about Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? They get shot to death at the end, does that make it a crappy movie?

Cliche's are like the same as typewriters, it depends on who's using them. When Stanley Kubrick cast Slim Pickens as Major Kong in Dr. Strangelove, he couldn't have cast a more obvious walking bundle of cliches, but it was brilliant and gives the movie its defining image of Kong riding the bomb down to earth bronco style.

Me and my writing pals like to kid each other that montage is the route of all evil, because so many filmmakers use montages to cover for lazy scripting, but that doesn't mean there aren't excellent montages in films.

If you are going to criticize something, you might try to do so on the individual merits of people's work instead of making such broad sweeping generalizations.

Mister Mxyzptlk
There are no original ideas in Hollywood anymore...


...The only "new" ideas are ...

Its nice of you to prove yourself wrong for us.

The use of the word "cliche" to describe something...seems cliche.
but to ask people to defend there personal taste seems laughable.

but as Ozone briefly alluded to their are comics on this site that boogles the mind as to why people like it while there are many which are overlooked.

*wink*
*nudge-nudge*

but lets not blow this topic out of proportion.

bobhhh
If you are going to criticize something, you might try to do so on the individual merits of people's work instead of making such broad sweeping generalizations.

And, you're right! But, a broad sweep does count for a lot of material. And, yes. Lessons learned do work just as good, if not better. And, movies that end sad can be very good. As long as a movie puts forth a message that is profound, y'know? There are always exceptions, and I don't believe at all that a movie needs a cliche to be good.(uniqueness is always a good thing.) I am just saying that not all cliches are bad. They can help people relate to a movie and put it into perspective. And what i meant by a movie being a waste of time, is basically if not only does a character not attain a goal, but he/she doesn't learn any lesson, and the movie doesn't have a message. But, there's always exceptions to all rules of storytelling. Like you said, it just depends on who's punching the keys of the proverbial typewriter.

hollywood needs an enema
im glad for the writer's strike.
i hope the industry falls apart

subcultured
hollywood needs an enema
im glad for the writer's strike.
i hope the industry falls apart

indeed

i never saw both those movies posted above , L of the Rs was soo boring i almost ran out of the theatre crying !!! a basic rule of thumb is if everybody likes it its prolly crap , and if anybody tells you how much money it cost to make it's prolly crap , and if you see a comercial for it its crap, and if it was made in the last ten years its most likely crap, and if its a remake of any kind start crying now and run away !!!
why do people remake movies anyway ? did anybody see the remake of Dune ? it was horrible !!! why do they need to remake a movie thats only been around for 20 years anyway? oh , right , $$$$ !
Everything these Robots are producing is garbage , its NOT ART !
art should make you think , it should fuck with your brains , even just a little . like this movie i just saw about hitler where everybody was blowing their brains out , that gave me nightmares that was a good movie !
lord of the rings is a pile of puke !!! its void of anything but the oh wow that looks cool factor ! the OWTLC factor is all over the place ; music movies COMICS !
if it doesn't frighten or disturb or in someway change you , its pointless as art , its just an activity
so to ask why people like trash stuff that has no redeeming value , is like asking why people like to eat at mc. donalds or masturbate . it's simply an easy alternative to something else that would otherwise take more effort , be it physicaly or mentally
and we humans are usually pretty lazy animals

lothar
if it doesn't frighten or disturb or in someway change you , its pointless as art , its just an activity

Um, that's pretty closed minded. I'll go ahead and say Duck Soup, or Raising Arizona do none of those things, and yet they qualify as artistic statemets and are very entertaining.

subcultured
hollywood needs an enema
im glad for the writer's strike.
i hope the industry falls apart

Enema, sure but fall apart? That's pretty harsh. Not everything that comes out of Hollywood sux, and not all bad movies and TV are the fault of the writers.

You know this place would start to get pretty boring if movies and TV suddenly stopped happening, so a tiny shred of respect for the people who toil at entertaining us wouldn't be out of the question here.

I agree that you all too often see movies, TV Shows, and comics go for the cheap cliche jokes. I think it really does have a lot to do with that fact that it's getting increasingly harder to find original ideas, but it also feels like writers aren't trying hard enough, either.

The base humor of 40 Year Old Virgin was a good example. I haven't seen it, but I believe that when somebody starts parading out the crude humor, it's often a sign that they can't think of deeper and more clever gags. Toilet humor is easy.

I remember when Disney put out their trailers for Home On the Range. It was basically 15 seconds of farm animals burping and farting. Is it any wonder not enough people went to see that movie?

Crude humor definitely has its audience, but it isn't me.

Hawk
Crude humor definitely has its audience, but it isn't me.

Me neither, Remember the Klumps? I don't need to part with ten bucks to enjoy farts.

Hawk
The base humor of 40 Year Old Virgin was a good example. I haven't seen it, but I believe that when somebody starts parading out the crude humor, it's often a sign that they can't think of deeper and more clever gags. Toilet humor is easy.

If you haven't seen it, why are you talking about it? If you bothered to give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised. I had very low expectations, for the same reasons you guys have, but it was actually much better than I thought it was going to be.

TnTComic

Hawk
The base humor of 40 Year Old Virgin was a good example. I haven't seen it, but I believe that when somebody starts parading out the crude humor, it's often a sign that they can't think of deeper and more clever gags. Toilet humor is easy.

If you haven't seen it, why are you talking about it? If you bothered to give it a try, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I saw it. His opinion is pretty spot on. Besides, you can get just about the entire movie from watching previews these days. But yeah, I gave it a shot, and it was crude low brow humor. Not much else.

Not that I'm elitist enough to say I don't find crude humor funny in some movies, if they are funny and clever in other ways too. Major League, Christmas Vacation, Planes, Trains, & Automobiles, South Park, The Blues Brothers, and Stripes are some of my favorite movies, and they also can be considered "low brow", "crude", or "toilet" humor. But they had more than that too, and that's what made them special. If all you have is cheap gags then you don't have much of a movie IMO.

But why pick on 40 Year Old Virgin when there are sooo many others that deserve to be trashed more? Austin Powers in Goldmember comes to mind for me. That movie was one cheap gag after another. I think it's one of the worst "comedy" movies I ever sat through.

I personally don't think too highly of the movie Narnia, either though. I don't think it set any new "standards". When a movie actually "sets a standard" tons of other movies copy the formula. If you want to talk about movies that actually "set the standard" you have to talk about movies like Casablanca, The Godfather, Citizen Kane, Star Wars, ET, Raiders of the Lost Ark or countless others.

Narnia was just Derivative of any other fantasy formula, nothing new.

What "crude" "toilet" humor was there in it?

I posted this in another forum but is implys the same feeling in this context.

THIS



PLUS THIS,



PLUS THIS,



EQUALS THIS




on topic...
with any movie someone will find fault, what you have here is a circular pointless argument.

TnTComic
What "crude" "toilet" humor was there in it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4VEj1V3J1Hc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pdmyOa8tDIg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rTO_oG3GpH4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fy3g1Lfua1w


But hey, in all fairness, Ebert and Roeper liked it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oOd-oXHrU5g

it's a bit hard to call narnia a cliche, it was writen quite long ago,
Why people like such "cliche", because they hav been smart enough to skip massprodused series on tv. ANyways if you can relate to the situation or something similar it's more apealing

Custard Trout
Because it's familiar. Most people are just comfortable braying like trained seals every time someone points out that Object A is slightly phallic.

Also, how can you not love the Forty Year Old Virgin? I MEAN HAHA HOLY SHIT HE'S LIKE FORTY AND HE NEVER HAD NO SEX. HAHAHAHAHAHA *VOMIT*.

...How can you love it? It had no remotely funny jokes. It's about some random guy who has never had sex before.

That's supposed to be funny?

People can choose not to ever have sex once in their lives, and stick by it. It doesn't actually matter what you do... sex is basicly just something everyone is presumed to have to have done by at least age 40. So, whenever someone who hasn't done so comes up, people laugh at that...

That's just... stupid.

Puff_Of_Smoke

Custard Trout
Because it's familiar. Most people are just comfortable braying like trained seals every time someone points out that Object A is slightly phallic.

Also, how can you not love the Forty Year Old Virgin? I MEAN HAHA HOLY SHIT HE'S LIKE FORTY AND HE NEVER HAD NO SEX. HAHAHAHAHAHA *VOMIT*.

...How can you love it? It had no remotely funny jokes. It's about some random guy who has never had sex before.

That's supposed to be funny?

People can choose not to ever have sex once in their lives, and stick by it. It doesn't actually matter what you do... sex is basicly just something everyone is presumed to have to have done by at least age 40. So, whenever someone who hasn't done so comes up, people laugh at that...

That's just... stupid.

Be careful about declaring subjective opinions as fact. You don't like it, but others do, so why not leave it at that?

SpANG
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4VEj1V3J1Hc

That's not toilet humor.

SpANG
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pdmyOa8tDIg

Link is busted.

SpANG
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rTO_oG3GpH4

Link is busted.

SpANG
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fy3g1Lfua1w

Not toilet humor.


I'm completely skeptical that the folks in this thread that are bashing on the movie have even seen it.

TnTComic
I'm completely skeptical that the folks in this thread that are bashing on the movie have even seen it.

Not unlikely, but some folks just differ. Personally i found the woman fucking a horse exchange funny because it showed the characters were kind of dense for wanting to watch that in the first place. I mean showing a woman fucking a horse is toilet humor, but showing a guy coming to realization that it's not what it was cracked up to be is ironic and funny in my opinion.

still, some will not like it, so i say to each his own.

ps, although i did watch that clip, i haven't seen the movie yet, but based on that and what i have heard its definitely on my cue.

bobhhh
ps, although i did watch that clip, i haven't seen the movie yet, but based on that and what i have heard its definitely on my cue.

When I first heard about it, I was in the same boat as many here. I figured it was going to be eye-rollingly predictible, with humor on par with the American Pie movies. I was very much surprised... While the subject matter is juvenile for the most part, the way it is approached is not, making it much different from the majority of shit comedies out there these days.

Point is, even if the title gives you hardcore skepticism, give it a shot before dismissing it entirely.

I will not discuss the definition of cliche, because it changes from person to person and from culture to culture. But the sad truth of society is that we do not appreciate the workmanship of an object, which is why Narnia is sometimes less highly regarded than The 40 Year old Virgin. Taking Narnia as an example the answer to why it is considered a cliche and boring by some is for the following reasons:
A. they have read the book or seen it somewhere else and find it a repeat of an already seen story (and if you know the story and have seen it somewhere else chances are that it wont be as good the second time)
B. They have seen a story with a similar plot, again with Narnia it is a very old movie concept for a group of kids to have a magical adventure of self-discovery (I swear if I get any sex jokes for this I will kill!). So when looking at Narnia they will not be drawn into the story because they are sceptical of its story line.
Ca. If any of the above comply then it is very likely that the person in question will not pay any attention to the animation, the costumes, the music, the acting or any other of those things that might make a movie great.

(Please note that this is my opinion based on my observations and beliefs)

Looking at the second example The 40 year old Virgin (assuming that the viewer did not like Narnia and falls into one of the categories above) he/she will see the 40 year Old Virgin and like it, why? Well even though the story of a loser who needs to find a girlfriend is less original than that of Narnia it does have something which Narnia does not: provocation. In every society there are social taboos, any media that breaks these taboos (or social norms) can go 1 of two ways:

A. It is shunned by the public for being crap.

B. It provokes feelings in the viewer: often laughter because it is considered dramatic irony. Example: the two people talking about seeing a horse have sex with a woman (this breaks the taboo of sex with animals), but when the guy (who we assume is a pervert) says: "it was actually disgusting" we laugh (because this is dramatic irony: we assume he will say "that was hot" or something along those line, yet when we are so unexpectedly confronted with a different reality, it is normal to laugh).

Then there is the discussion of why some people think A and others think B, well that has a lot to do with cultural background, social norms and personality.

My personal opinion was that both movies were bad. Though I can admire the technical aspects of Narnia and appreciate the detailed animation, I still do not like it. Because I have read the books and seen the cartoon, so I am not thrilled by seeing the same story again. I did not like the 40 year old Virgin either, because the acting was simply too bad and the humour was in my opinion to stupid and obvious.

Also note that movies are a social event (like most else in human society): A bad movie is always better with a friend, or people around you. A good example would be watching an episode of a TV show alone and say "wow this is crap". However when you watch the same episode with friends and they laugh, you will laugh.

What I am trying to say is that there is no simple answer to the initial question, but I hope this will give people something to think about, and if it makes sense... then consider it a bonus (you might also want to seek medical help :S)

.... phew... Im gonna go lie down for a while.