Skullbie

faliat
1-17

I dunno man...shouldn't those comics at least get credit for having more then 5 pages and not being a 'No Thumbnail'? xP

I can't help liking taking my time on a script and character designs before starting a story so I don't have to redo them when I don't like what direction the story is taking.

And tell that to the people keeping mahlaste in the first 5000 with only five pages. And it's already got a typo, drastically changing balloon styles, pretty bad photoshop halftoning, bad and stupid filler art, is right to left and has only 5 pages including a chapter starting page.

It was actually because I hated those drawings even while I was uploading them that I've decided to take my time again.

Faliat don't let Skullbie rush you!
Perfection takes time!

Faliat
And tell that to the people keeping mahlaste in the first 5000 with only five pages. And it's already got a typo, drastically changing balloon styles, pretty bad photoshop halftoning, bad and stupid filler art, is right to left and has only 5 pages including a chapter starting page.

Huh, my comic Portal Shark is also in the top 5000, and it has one page, and that's a filler*, which was placed there on the 29th of April.

*The filler wasn't drawn by me.

^^ I guess your readers also read my comic.

@ Hark:

Ah, sorry. I didn't realize that you just wanted positive input. I thought you had the thickest skin here, since you put yourself forward so much, i.e. don't mind ppl taking jabs at you.

In that case, consider my previous post as a backhanded way to remind you to update your avatar and banner with newer art. Because I happened to see some other art by you on these forums, and they seem better than what you have in your avatar/banner right now. If my impression/memory is correct, then you're doing yourself a disservice, because the avatar/banner is your "public face."

Sprites.

zaymac
I don't really see why people are getting upset if people don't like a certain genre of comic that yours happens to fit into.

There isn't really anything you can do about that, unless you really care about pleasing everyone. Which is going to be pretty impossible.

What you should focus on is the art, writing, fonts, word balloons,coloring, pacing etc.

These may be things that turn people off of your comic, that you may actually be able to improve upon.

The genre stuff you really can't do much about.

I'd say this is the smartest thing said in this thread so far.



By the way, I'm a lot like mlai. The quality of the art has A LOT to do with whether or not I read a comic. It may sound shallow, but as spacehamster was talking about early in the thread, people who have taken the time to hone their artistic skills are usually older, smarter, and more skilled at writing as well. That's not to say there aren't people who write well but aren't good at art. It's just the correlation between good art and good writing is higher.

Plus, when people work hard to make their comic look good (as opposed to "LOL my comic's art is bad on purpose cause it's hilarious XD") you can tell they care about what they're doing and want to make a good experience for the reader.

crocty
Hmm...Let's see...
Well, there's the average furry and sprite comics. Although furry comics not so much. They can be done well, you know, when they're not eye blindingly terrifying.

Oh, man. See, I'm quite fine with furry, but a lot of the stuff that I've seen on the internet has been terrifying and mentally scarring. If it's not fetish furry, then I don't mind. So Hark, your comic is safe from my playa-hatin' eyes.

There's yuri and yaoi too. It's just that the stories seem to be the same "I'm not gay." "What if I constantly stalk you, and forcefully undress you" "I'm not gay" "*SMILES REALLY FLAMBOYANTLY*" "OMG I'M GAY"...Or something to the same effect. Not that there haven't been a yuri and yaoi (Long story) or two I've seen that don't suck. But mostly I'm completely indifferent to the genre~

STARFIGHTER STARFIGHTER STARFIGHTER AUGH STARFIGHTER. I'll also add that I like gay/lesbian style comics if they make sense. Like, they were already gay at the beginning of the comic. Because if they're straight, but go flaming for the boy that looks like a girl, I'm outta there. I don't care how hot someone is, I'm not going gay for them, I like my straightness very much, thank you.

Oh, and what hark said about the fanservice. Well, fanservice is all good and well, but if it's just where their clothes fall off CONSTANTLY, it just gets a bit annoying. Seriously, when something has me annoyed at naked people, they must have done something wrong. ):<

Agreed. But to be quite honest, I'd rather there be no fanservice. It's like the author is selling out to get more readers. At least, that's how I view it. As far as nudity goes, I'm fine with it if it's not sexualized, if you know what I mean. Like, it's there as part of the character or story, not to stir the pants of the readers.

This comic does a good job of just what I'm saying. http://www.meekcomic.com/2008/12/27/chapter-1-cover/

mlai
@ Hark:

Ah, sorry. I didn't realize that you just wanted positive input. I thought you had the thickest skin here, since you put yourself forward so much, i.e. don't mind ppl taking jabs at you.

Wow! Even your apology is putting me down!
No I don't just want positive input, but to single me out as the example of art you don't like seems kinda rude.
I don't think I'm the forum whipping boy.

Did I insult you earlier and not notice I was doing it? Because you really seem to have it in for me all of a sudden!

SSSSHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
That's enough guys.

Quit taking this stuff personally or applying it personally to other people! OK?

Or posts will be deleted or the thread will be locked.

hahaha i love some of these turn offs people have "i wont ever read superheroes! i wont ever read romance!" lolz!! i find it funny how someones turn off is something that someone else is doing. this thread has butthurt written all over it. "you dont like furries? well, i dont like whatever-it-is youre doing!"

and could you imagine what the reactions would be if people said "i wont ever read a gay/lesbian comic, or one with a non-white protagonist?"

I LOVE COMICS. PERIOD. there is nothing, and i mean NOTHING, that will put me off your comic from a simple glance or description. i will at least check it out and give it some pages. if it doesnt grip me i will tell you, but there is nothing that will repel me straight away.

I wont ever read black and white comics about muscle bound men doing kung fu and having afros!

Kidding!
I cant keep that up!
BOOOOOOM!

NickGuy
hahaha i love some of these turn offs people have "i wont ever read superheroes! i wont ever read romance!" lolz!!

I agree, but I think when people say that, they're just making generalizations. There are some genres that I don't seek out, but I know of comics that fit into those categories that I love because I stumbled upon them.

And I agree with the comment about not having to please anyone. I would never change my work to make someone happy, the only thing I want to change about what I do is to hopefully work hard and get better at it. :P

harkovast
I wont ever read black and white comics about muscle bound men doing kung fu and having afros!

Kidding!
I cant keep that up!
BOOOOOOM!

i hate all comics that arent computer colored! ;)

NickGuy
and could you imagine what the reactions would be if people said "i wont ever read a gay/lesbian comic?

People have said that in this thread. :nervous:

You'd read romance comics and gay comics nickguy? I've got to say i'm impressed, when i saw you'd posted in here i thought you'd have the most bigoted views thus far. That's what i get for making generalizations >0 *smacks wrist*

I think I'm inspired to try a comic type i said i wouldn't read before, Guess I'll try a genderbend and furry comic. YES HARKOVAST I WILL TRY TO READ YOURS TOO

You can't go wrong trying a furry comic! ;-)

Okay, I'll join in. So what kind of comic should I try that I haven't tried before?
Suggest I type and I'll go take a look at one.

Wow, I didn't expect so many people to post here! lol
Well one thing I'd ike to say is, with all the things that I said put me off, it tends to just mean I am less likely to read the comic. But the more of the things I find off putting that are in one comic the less likely I am to read it. I give almost everything a chance lol

Skullbie
You'd read romance comics and gay comics nickguy? I've got to say i'm impressed, when i saw you'd posted in here i thought you'd have the most bigoted views thus far. That's what i get for making generalizations >0 *smacks wrist*

im actually really open-minded *or id like to think so* when it comes to art and comics. i recently picked up the book EROTIC COMICS 2 at barnes and nobles, its a history of erotic comics and artists and creators to look out for. the gay lesbian section was incredibly interesting and it's also quite an eye opener to most people who didnt know that some of their favorite mainstream creators have done pretty graphic stuff (bolland, miller, and frank cho to name a few)

Hyena H_ll

NickGuy
and could you imagine what the reactions would be if people said "i wont ever read a gay/lesbian comic?

People have said that in this thread. :nervous:

Yaoi/Yuri never counts... At least to me. It's just hetero stuff disguised as gay. It's just that there's no threatening "parts" shown to put off the target gender.
It's a popular theory if you look it up.

Most lesbian porn is targeted at men for the same reason.

18. Your love interest is PERFECT FOR YOU IN EVERY WAY!

You never have main characters that are a couple that have conflicting morals or behaviours. I'd like reality to kick in more often before I even consider picking up anything at least 50% romance.

I know when you really like someone you can [can] ignore their flaws or find them appealing even.
What about piss stained underwear, leaving their shoes behind the bathroom door so that you hurt yourself when it bounces back unexpectedly and the doorknob hits you in the gut, crapping with the bathroom door open, leaving changing the lightbulb until after he/she's fallen over in the darkness, the fact that they can be an obnoxious and spoiled fucker at times?

I'd sure like to see more of that.

Faliat
It's just hetero stuff disguised as gay.

Wow right, i mean gay relationships are so totally different from hetero ones, so it must just be 'disguised'.

I think i'd agree BL comics/manga have a bit of shallowness to the writing because the authors are usually straight females, even if you know the medium you're still missing some crucial experience. But i've always found a head of truth in lesbian comics written by girls, because they can input their own emotions and experiences even if the comic is totally unrealistic in the romance(i tend to avoid those types though).

Even then hetero romance comics tend to be just as shallow and filled with unbelievable archetypes as well (wow a dreamy male model falls in love with the MC that is, quote, "average in every way" instead of his hot attractive actress girlfriend? yaaaaaaayyy). Every genre on the planet seems to have it's god tiers and shit tiers.

Skullbie

Faliat
It's just hetero stuff disguised as gay.

Wow right, i mean gay relationships are so totally different from hetero ones, so it must just be 'disguised'.

Actually, they are.

Research says so.

It's because both people are the same gender and less fixed into traditional gender roles of "the man" and "the woman".

Then there's the whole fact of them not being able to have a marriage-like ceremony in most parts of the world and the fact that entire groups of people want them DEAD for being what they are. To name a few other issues.

I could find a few links if you want about the former.

Faliat

Skullbie

Faliat
It's just hetero stuff disguised as gay.

Wow right, i mean gay relationships are so totally different from hetero ones, so it must just be 'disguised'.

Actually, they are.

Research says so.

It's because both people are the same gender and less fixed into traditional gender roles of "the man" and "the woman".

Then there's the whole fact of them not being able to have a marriage-like ceremony in most parts of the world and the fact that entire groups of people want them DEAD for being what they are. To name a few other issues.

I could find a few links if you want about the former.

A couple in a loving same-sex relationship are no different then a couple in a loving heterosexual one(in western cultures at least). On top of that the male/female role depends on the person just like it does with straight people. Some lesbians have ultra butch/femme and some gays have a definite top/bottom, just like many hetero's choose to do away with such an old fashioned notion. (and i'm willing to bet those couples don't divorce at an insane rate)

You're partly right, the external stimuli are a difference; straight couples can be more open in public with PDA and they can get married, no fear of being ostracized. But the actual relationship is not mars and venus differences, I doubt your 'research' is anything more then inane and biased theories.

And there's the other thing that people keep forgetting and that serious research on gay people is rather young :/ There's still no definite answer on what makes a person gay(besides androgen levels which seems somewhat likely) or why a lot of people have bisexual tendencies. I'd rather trust my own eyes and experiences then the same type of people that argued interracial marriage could never be equal.
((i don't want to hijack the thread so i'll leave it here, maybe discussion forum if said research offers something more))

Skullbie
A couple in a loving same-sex relationship are no different then a couple in a loving heterosexual one(in western cultures at least). On top of that the male/female role depends on the person just like it does with straight people. Some lesbians have ultra butch/femme and some gays have a definite top/bottom, just like many hetero's choose to do away with such an old fashioned notion. (and i'm willing to bet those couples don't divorce at an insane rate)

You're partly right, the external stimuli are a difference; straight couples can be more open in public with PDA and they can get married, no fear of being ostracized. But the actual relationship is not mars and venus differences, I doubt your 'research' is anything more then inane and biased theories.

And there's the other thing that people keep forgetting and that serious research on gay people is rather young :/ There's still no definite answer on what makes a person gay(besides androgen levels which seems somewhat likely) or why a lot of people have bisexual tendencies. I'd rather trust my own eyes and experiences then the same type of people that argued interracial marriage could never be equal.
((i don't want to hijack the thread so i'll leave it here, maybe discussion forum if said research offers something more))

I think the best way to answer that would be if someone in a same-sex relationship talked about it.
Like here:
http://www.breaktheillusion.com/?p=1204
If you still want to debate it, we could discuss this in PQ or D+D. I did a lot of research for one of my comics. Including a several pages long science article about it possibly being related to chemicals in the womb caused by the mother's immune system.


19. Bitchy Cheerleaders.
Maybe it's the fact that bitchy girls backstab enough to become cheerleaders, or that because they're cheerleaders they're bitches? Either or. I find the stereotype annoying and boring.
Yeah, I was bullied by a few cheerleaders (Rare as hell in Scotland. Though I guess we need more with our sporting track record.). But by far the worst bullying I got was from Irish Dancers!


There needs to be more bitchy Irish dancers in high school dramas/comedies.

Look at them... With their jiggly curly wigs from the darkest depths of HELL!!!

this thread is just plain ridiculous.

have fun tearing down every single thing about every single comic ever made. im going to work on my webcomic, im falling behind.

Faliat
19. Bitchy Cheerleaders.
Maybe it's the fact that bitchy girls backstab enough to become cheerleaders, or that because they're cheerleaders they're bitches? Either or. I find the stereotype annoying and boring.
Yeah, I was bullied by a few cheerleaders (Rare as hell in Scotland. Though I guess we need more with our sporting track record.). But by far the worst bullying I got was from Irish Dancers!


There needs to be more bitchy Irish dancers in high school dramas/comedies.

Look at them... With their jiggly curly wigs from the darkest depths of HELL!!!

D'oooooorrrrg. I agree. When I was in school, the cheerleaders were actually the nice ones. It was the choir kids and the drama jocks that were the douches of the school.

I guess which brings me to another thing that put me off a comic is when the author follows a very strict cliche story line or plot development. A lot of people scream originality, but it's the loudest that seem to stay within the comfort zone of predictability.

Comics with giant images. I just found one with a page so large I had to zoom out to 30% just to read the bloody thing. And it was only one panel.
I probably would have faved it if not for that.

There's a number of things that will turn me off from reading a comic any further, but here are the basics :3:

-unoriginality in story
-most sprite comics (Sorry x.x)
-the kind of comics that make offensive jokes about gender/race/sexuality
-comics that don't update but only once a month or less (Although there are a couple of comics that i've stuck to like this, but it's not the norm for me xD)

I guess you could easily dismiss this whole thread just by saying "to each their own" and "you can't please everybody", and those are pretty good answers, but perhaps the info that people have been putting here could be useful to more acurately pinpoint your target audience, don't you guys think? Like, people who like this genre generally don't like this stuff, and so on. Anyway.

There's been a lot of talk of certain things, so I thought I'd include a third category: things that many people seem to have a problem with, but I don't.

1. Furries. I don't get what's the fuzz. Perhaps people feel like it would be childish to read a comic with talking, humanized animals? They should read Maus. Now THAT's a kiddie comic.

2. Long archives. I'm a fairly impatient reader, so I like to read as much in one sitting as I possibly can. You know I really LOVE a comic when I read the weekly updates.

3. Subpar art. I know, comics are a visual medium, but being an artist myself I understand how hard, time consuming and sometimes bothersome it can be. And not all comics are about the art, you know. There are a couple of comics in my favorites list with art that would get you kicked out of a portfolio review at a con, but they are cleverly done and are pretty entertaining, so I can be forgiving about the art. I mean, c'mon, it's not like you have to pay for this stuff.

anyone who says furries cant be badass hasnt read bleach. Komamura FTW! lolz

I don't HATE furry comics, I've just not found one that I've liked. It's got nothing to do with talking animals being considered kiddy.

When people have finished reading Maus, I suggest "The Pride of Baghdad". Even though it's not furry... It's got talking animals!