For me, it's 14 year old "elitist" players who don't like you because you're not playing the game "their way".

Lonnehart
For me, it's 14 year old "elitist" players who don't like you because you're not playing the game "their way".

Absolutely agreeing with you there. I just hate how they get sore because I kill them with a simplier technique that actually works.

I could've sworn this was a thread topic, but I can't seem to find it.

I just don't like the whiny kids who talk about sex (I just got out of a raid group and a kid was fascinated about how girls can poop in a cup and feed it to each other...would you talk about that during a raid group?!?) and they say things like "stfu" and tell me to "go to hell, bitch." I mean, seriously....where are these kids' parents? Did they not teach them manners? I think it's a power trip for them, and they know they won't get caught. Blizzard tries to instill things like a Verbal/Physical harrassment function where you can report such things to a GM, but I don't know if it works.

I also don't like elitist, clique-y guilds. The other night while I was logged off, I got kicked out of a guild that I had been in for only a week because they claimed I had "loot issues" and "behaivioral problems." They never heard my side of the story--they just decided to listen to this whiny kid who was the son of one of the guild officers, and he said I didn't "wear what I looted." ...Who ever does that? I'm going to sell what I loot in the auction house for gold--pretty much everyone does that. In terms of "behavioral problems," it's because I tell people the truth, and that can sometimes get me in trouble in MMO guilds. If I'm in a dungeon group or raid and we're sucking ass and dying a lot, I'll speak up and say something. I'm not going to lie and kiss up and fluff up fragile egos. So apparently I hurt these egos, and they couldn't take it.

A lot of times people (including me) tend to forget that it's just a game, and it's good to take a breather once in a while. Now excuse me while I rack up more PvP points.... ;)

I have Guild Wars which I play on occasion...but do you know what I think they should just completely get rid of in these games? The money and the leveling up. I played the very first beta of Guild Wars a long time ago, and in that beta everyone had the exact same level of skill and couldn't go higher or lower...all they could focus on was the teaming up with people and killing monsters part of the game, and the rest was up to them. It was loads fun.

It's just so depressing that a lot of the people on mmorpgs you can't really have fun with (the ones who aren't dummies anyway) because they're too busy becoming the UBER-GOD of the game or collecting those next set of cat ears or something to put on there head.

I say...the ideal mmorpg would get rid of all that, just let you have unlimited customization for no money so you can keep your character looking unique without people going on about that crap ALL THE TIME, everyone would be the same level, and battles would be all about how skilled YOU can be with those those controls of yours, and not whether you've made it to level 99.


.....yeah, so maybe I just want an mmorpg concept mixed with an almost shooter concept. XP Except...not as boring as a shooter can be sometimes.

Sorry, I don't have WoW.

But the free MMORPGS I tried started out really fun but later turned into boring grinding jobs. I guess that's how the free ones work. It starts out fun, but if you want it to STAY fun you have to pay for enhancements via microtransactions.

But it's okay... I don't have the time to spend on these types of games. I've seen WoW wreck the lives of a few people I know.

They have games like that, but generally they aren't all that fun after about a week or so. MMORPG gameplay isn't really exciting enough to keep you interested for all that long. That's why people play fanatically to up their levels and get loot and better items. It's really the only thing that keeps people addicted to the game.

I could've sworn this was a thread topic, but I can't seem to find it.

I think there was a topic about ideal games that mentioned MMOs and a similar topic about why people hated Xbox Live. I don't remember one specifically about this, though.

As for the aspects of the genre that bug me, it just seems like things get repetitive. For starters, there are very few games where you can just go out and do what you want. Most games will focus entirely on combat, and when games do have other activities, they are generally not too interesting and the game fizzles out as just an overblown chat room. Why not throw in more crafting elements like the original Ultima Online or even farming elements like in Harvest Moon? It doesn't need to be complex to be fun and interesting. It just seems like most of these elements today boil down to standing in one place and waiting, while they could be more involved and interesting.

Another thing which bugs me in MMO's is the reliance on the class system. It seems like every game forces you into a class that has specific skills and a preferred growth pattern. This just results in thousands of people in the game trying to match one of four or five preferred character builds. Everyone uses the same items and has the same abilities, which makes the game far less interesting. Eliminating the class systems and giving players true freedom to choose whatever equipment and abilities they want to learn, would really help to diversify the genre a bit.

The abundance of Korean free MMOs has also made me really despise kill-stealing. I'd love to see more instanced gaming. I know it happens pretty frequently these days, but I'd love to see it really take over. There is nothing I hate more than trying to earn some XP only to have some asshole who's 20 levels higher than me run through the area killing every monster in one hit, including the one I've widdled away to a fraction of its health. Some games have systems to reduce the effects, but really there is no better solution than just having the game be instanced.

Probably my biggest complaint is the almost total lack of story in these games. They have the ability to make them more dynamic with involved branching storylines, but insist on boring fetch quests and "kill X number of monster y" quests rather than any sort of multifaceted quest that feels more important and rewarding.

I'd also love to see traveling and exploration become more rewarding. Right now, it is for the most part just an excuse to find stronger monsters and more quests. I'd love to see some other purposes applied to travel. Perhaps you could have masters of different skills littered around the world. Players would be encouraged to find them to learn more powerful skills in battle. You could periodically add unique items and weapons to the game world and players could fight over possession of the most powerful items in the game. Give players reasons to start guild wars.

There are a lot of things I'd love to see in MMOs that are currently rare or nonexistent.

I'm going to use WoW as an eample here. What I find to be true for most MMO's is that when you start out it is like "OMG look at at what I did, YAYZ LVL UP AND WTF IS THAT?" Then you get deeper into the game and it stops being fun. I played WoW for about 2 months. I was an undead rogue and I loved it. From 1-10 it was awesome, 10-20 my first instance, 20-30 grind grind grind. amd 30-39 oh shit need money for mount start saving oh crap need that dagger crap spec wrong and ect.
The games stop being fun. It now takes forever to lvl up which you need to do in order to do the fun stuff. So you spend hours to days to weeks lvling and gearing up so some aholes will help you with something and its done in a few hours.
In the end you just end up playing like everyone else and doing what everyone esle is doing.
Can we have a lvl system where each level needs the same amount of exp. but make it so monsters below your lvl don't give exp. So you are not spending at least 10 hours of grinding and mindless soulcrushing repation for a an hour or less of fun.
Or make a game around PVP where skill not gear or levels is key. At least let me build my own chararcter and controll how it grows. Or even better make quests the can be only done by one person once. SO you have a sense of impact on the game world.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.

The ever so lasting GRiND!

I want MMO's to move away from the mono-track grind.

I'd really like them to start to diversify game play with more options. I don't mind the XP/Item set up of City of Heroes 'cause they don't make leveling and impossible and painful task just something that you happen to do over the course of doing missions, but like most MMO's their missions get reallllllly repedative.

Kill this thing, find that guy, raid this place. I wouldn't mind some mini-games or new out of the box content (as long as it isn't mandtory). Star Wars tried to do this by adding the Jump to Light Speed piloting section of the game which was radically different from the normal land based content but sadly SWG had so many problems that its good point are last in a laundry list of thing NOT to do in an MMO.

Last Call that is TRUELY disturbing. I wish I could unread that.

What don't I like about MMO's? I have a feeling there's a long list of whiney complaints coming from me. :dizzy:

Anyways, the things I hate the most about MMO's are definitely the childish, immature players who think that they are "uber" and "leet" enough to use their own strategies, instead of being willing to listen to someone who has some more experience in whatever they are doing at the moment. People like this are usually the main cause of losing in any competitive event you're doing, thus ruining the fun for the rest of the players.
Another kind of players that I hate are the ones that complain about things that come natural to the picked class/race, and think that this is a valid reason to spam the word "noob" at you in any way, shape or form. There players just can't accept to lose, and should just quit the game if they can't live with it.

Some other non-player related things I don't like about MMO's:

Rushed storylines. I, for one, like to know the backstory about the game and the story which the quests are supposed to follow. But in some MMO's I've noticed that the some stories resemble swiss cheese: filled with giant holes. If the companies want to get money out of me, I at least want to know what the game is actually about.
Expliotable bugs. Sure, a game has a lot of codes and it's hard to create, but if these certain bug still exist about one year after they have been discovered, that just doesn't make sense. This just shows that the company only thinks you're a talking bag of money, and so they just basically give a giant middle finger to the players who are annoyed by these bugs.
Dull quests. Sure, a quest which says "Go to this spot for money" is acceptable. But a quest which says "Kill 20 of this mob, then do the same with stronger mobs afterwards, then against with even stronger mobs, etc etc." is just plain boring. Most of the game is about killing monsters, yes, but the companies could actually try to get some variaties in the quests. For instance: "Kill 20 of this mob, then speak to this guy, bomb those buildings for him, and then solve that puzzle."

Okay, I think that I am done complaining now. And I have to admit, even though these points are really big downsides, there also are lots of good sides to the MMO's, so that's just the engine that makes me want to play them.

I hate the players who seem to be allergic to fun. Unfortunately, that seems to be most of them.

Hawk
But the free MMORPGS I tried started out really fun but later turned into boring grinding jobs.

I think pretty much every MMO I've played (especially WoW) is like that. Kinda sucks. And yet, they're good time killers if I have nothing to do. Hey wait, so is working on my comic. D'oh! ;)

Chaosord
Or make a game around PVP where skill not gear or levels is key.

You might want to try Dark Age of Camelot 's "Realm vs. Realm" system. DAoC is an old game (almost 7 years old), but WoW copies a lot of things from DAoC, including their PvP system. That new WoW expansion coming up, "Wrath of the Lich King," is having destructible buildings for PVP and that comes straight out of Dark Age of Camelot.

Anyway, DAoC's Realm vs. Realm is lots of fun. You basically build rams, trebuchets and ballistas and join up with hundreds of other people and try to take over castles without dying. You can hear war and skirmish noises as you fight. You make holes in the castles and run through the holes, or if you're a thief, you can scale the walls. ....The game also has a housing system, so you can have your own little cottage or mansion. You can dye your armor whatever color you'd like.

Anyway, I enjoyed it. I haven't played it since Mythic was taken over by EA, so it might have changed. Not sure.

I never liked the fact that you had to pay "rent" for your houses in some MMORPGs, namely Star Wars Galaxies. Soon as Jump for Lightspeed came out I made my space yacht my new home and only used buildings for my businesses on planets.

I miss that game, but I won't go back now that NGE is in place. :(

Lonnehart
I never liked the fact that you had to pay "rent" for your houses in some MMORPGs, namely Star Wars Galaxies. Soon as Jump for Lightspeed came out I made my space yacht my new home and only used buildings for my businesses on planets.

I miss that game, but I won't go back now that NGE is in place. :(

My husband also misses Star Wars Galaxies. He hasn't played it since Sony took it over, but he says it used to be a lot of fun. It was more of a social experiment than a grinding game like WoW. I've never played it myself. ...After Sony took over Matrix Online from Monolith and totally destroyed it, I've heard bad things about SWG and its downfall after Sony, too. ....You would think that Sony would get the hint and stop destroying MMOs.

I'm reading about that NGE thing on Wikipedia:

Wikipedia
New Game EnhancementsStar Wars Galaxies after the New Game EnhancementsAnother set of game changes dubbed the "New Game Enhancements" (NGE) was announced on 3 November 2005 and started testing the next day. It went live on November 15 via digital download, and became available in retail as the Star Wars Galaxies: Starter Kit on November 22. Changes included the reduction of the 34 original professions to nine "iconic" ones. The NGE changes also included a massive overhaul to the gameplay, deemphasizing the importance of tradeskills and replacing the CU combat system with a faster first-person shooter style game. Jedi powers and status, once obtainable only after extremely long hours of play, became available to characters as starting class.

The launch of the NGE introduced new bugs, broken quests, and induced client-side lag. There were criticisms of the changes in several reviews, and negative player feedback was noted by media outlets outside the gaming industry, including CBS News, New York Times, New York Post and Wired Magazine. On Slashdot, John Smedley explained that they felt it necessary to revamp the game to the NGE in order to reverse the deterioration they were seeing in the subscriber base.

The development team affirmed this is their desired direction for the game, and they are slowly modifying parameters to address players' desires. This progress includes the re-introduction of some pre-NGE features that were removed, such as creature handling, target locking, auto-firing, the ability to fire special attacks from their keys, and the option to keep the camera behind the character, rather than the NGE's over-the-shoulder perspective.

Since then, the development team has given each profession a set of "Expertise trees" to bring back some complexity and differentiation to characters.

After the announcement that SOE had acquired the MMORPG Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Smedley addressed that game's players, many of whom had come from Star Wars Galaxies, about the perceived threat of major changes to the game:

"We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players."

--John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment

....That last quote is my favorite part. lol!

so what's fun about them then? ^^
I was looking forward to WOW coming out back when I still used to play Warcraft 3... I was even looking forward to Ultima online back when I was playing Ultima 8.

But I never bothered to actually get those games when they did come out.

The only one I've played for any length of time was Anarchy Online. That was so very dull and I'm glad I was wise enough to pass on those others. It wasn't the game that was dull really, just the concept. Like stripping an RPG of anything that made it compelling and making it multiplayer.

They seem more like stunted, anti-social, gelded multiplayer games than RPGs. Social interaction isn't really encouraged by the format because you need to rely on NPCs/monsters etc for a lot of stuff- killing them, buying from them, learning... In those terms they'd work so much better as single player games where the NPCs could do more and the story could become more imersive.

Multiplayer shooters like battlefield 2 however really do encourage a lot of team and social interaction all the time. People can't really level (except to get slightly better weapons), and combat is mostly skill based.

From what I've seen, when you get those kinds of massive social group battles happening in a MMORPG, that's about the most fun thing in them that you can do. So, if it were possible to focus on and enhance that aspect... merge the MMORPG with the big battle team war games...?
Eh, there's probably one out there alread. -_-

I played Ultima Online back when it first came out. Possibly the most fun I've had plying an MMO. I never spent time grinding. In fact, I barely ever even killed anything. I spent most of my time dicking around, talking to people, making bizarre characters and playing them out, or trying to craft things. It was by far one of the most open systems I was able to play around with. I also loved the overly uptight morality system they had. So I kept skulls in my bag, it's not like I KILLED those people. Harvesting skulls shouldn't make you evil. Got me a few "WTF"s when people killed my character and then rooted through my belongings, though. I really wish someone would recreate that kind of atmosphere in more modern MMOs, I miss it.

I don't really see shooters as encouraging that much social interaction. I can't say I've done much conversing with the random people I've played online shooters with and the social circles that build up from MMORPGs in and out of the game are significantly larger. In terms of tactics, most players still don't coordinate much in shooters. Sure, they play team matches, but for the most part people just do whatever they want as long as it forwards the team's goals. Also, a lot of people still compete against their teammates for higher scores and that doesn't really promote team interaction. In most cases, if you want decent team tactics, you have to already know the people on your team.

In MMORPGs, you'll often find there are advantages to actually working with others. There is added experience and money earned when you form parties or added firepower for taking down large bosses with better loot. Shooters only have the benefit of possibly adding to the score, although even that can be an insignificant advantage, especially when it requires a level of coordination that simply isn't possible with most online communities.

I don't mean shooters in general. I meant specifically something like Battlefield 2 and the similarity in the coordinated social battle system of that to the large clan battles that happen in games like WOW ;)

There aren't just advantages to working with others in that. If you don't you just don't get very far and your team usually loses unless the loners are down to a minimum.

------
That was interesting about Ultima Online though ^^

What you're talking about is not what I would consider social interaction. Pushing team play and cooperation does not necessarily mean pushing social interaction. In fact, a lot of people hate it when you try to socialize in games like Battlefield 2. It is distracting and a lot of people don't want to associate a voice or face with the people they play with/against. I find the opposite to be true in MMORPGs. When people do make an effort to team up with others, they often make it a point to socialize.

I mean social interaction literally, not some cultural conception of it involving organising weekend BBQs. lol!
No, just the act in its pure sate- people having to cooperate, communicate and work together to achieve common goals ;)

I'm just thinking in terms of group game play and how to do it efficiently, not how to make people into a nice community... That's much harder.

The wasted time, the wasted money, the fact that all my efforts can't be reattained unless I go back (two level 70 characters with quite a few AAs on EQ). The noob who somehow finds their way into raiding guilds. I'm talking, brain-damaged noob, not the new-to-the game newb.

I've always found the grinding to bore me. I played WoW for a long time, but the times I had the most fun were actually involved.... OMG ACTUAL ROLEPLAYING!!! lol. The game is an MMO right? How hard is it to actually decide "I'm gonna make a story of my own and build off of it." Well... apparently it's a pain... I tried to look at it like that and was doing it with a few friends, but eventually people got busy doing other stuff and we couldn't do it anymore... so it just went right back to the same repetitive thing you get.

I think one thing that could fix these games better, is a better working simulation of every day life. Honestly, they set some of these things up where too many people have upper advantages over others. AND if one person decides to try and do something about it, the others push em out... or find a way to blacklist em. like seriosuly wtf is up with that?

Granted, most of the time it's kiddies who have no idea what a real social economy is... so they just be little whiners.

Here's something else about MMORPGs that I find frustrating. Spammers. They grab a bunch of free accounts then spam their virtual money for real money services all over the chat area. Luckily City of Heroes took care of that problem; trial can't use the broadcast system (among other restrictions). No more Virgames.Com advertisements to be annoyed at. :)

I think the only real way to foster community roleplaying as Ozone/Isukun describe, is to have humans as regional dungeonmasters to guide the players in an event/story. And to regulate out the annoying elements.

Guidelines and restrictions are part of any special interest social gathering. A ladies' knitting club wouldn't allow skaters off the street to barge in just to eat the cookies - it disrupts the club. So why should MMO's be different? Weed out and ban the noobs, ban the spammers, ban all who don't want to (or are too stupid to) role-play, and guide the events. You lose some income initially, but in the end, everyone who wants to actually roleplay will come to your game.

Ive notice that ALOT of MMORPGS are the same, Click, kill, move, potion, click, move, kill. That gets repetaive and i see some MMORPGS have something oringinal (Example: FLYFF had flying which thought was quite original, flying combat was done poorly as you often nerly got yourself killed trying to get your character lined up to the monster you were trying to hit. >.>)

i dont see alot of games that stick out now that i can sink my teeth into. >.>

mlai
Weed out and ban the noobs, ban the spammers, ban all who don't want to (or are too stupid to) role-play, and guide the events.

Well, what about the people who are there for the tactical/fighting aspect of it and don't give a damn about roleplaying? Or what about the people who are genuinely having fun, but just aren't very good at the game?

Lonnehart
..."elitist" players who don't like you because you're not playing the game "their way".

...just putting that out there.

Inkmonkey

mlai
Weed out and ban the noobs, ban the spammers, ban all who don't want to (or are too stupid to) role-play, and guide the events.

Well, what about the people who are there for the tactical/fighting aspect of it and don't give a damn about roleplaying? Or what about the people who are genuinely having fun, but just aren't very good at the game?

So when a group of 20-something AD&Ders are playing a pen/paper RPG in their living room, they would enjoy a bunch of 10 y/o's suddenly barging in, scarfing up the pizza, and chatting about headshots?

It's no different with MMORPGs. By endorsing the same no-holds-barred free-for-all atmosphere of regular internet, it's dumbing down the entire RPG to the lowest common denominator. Which happens to be move/click/kill/potion/move/click/kill. You can't elevate it to what it's supposed to be.

There should be elitist servers catering to ppl who actually want to role-play. Call it elitist or geek or drama club or whatever you want to call it.

Personally, I'm in favor of companies endorsing private servers. It's possible to do them these days, but not encouraged, and often against the TOS. I don't think how people play on public servers should be mandated too heavily, because not everyone enjoys playing the game in the same way. You're equating the game to a private get-together between friends at home, but really it's more of a get-together at a restaurant. I agree there should be punishment for spamming (the social equivalent of standing in the middle of a room and shouting loudly, getting in everyone's way), and if people are bothering you directly, that is a problem. But if you allow someone to sit at your table (join your party), and he doesn't feel like playing D&D so much as set up figures and try to knock them over with the dice, it should be up to you to get him to leave. I don't think we need some kind of MMO "Big Brother" watching over everyone making sure everyone's playing the same way.

Highwind017
Ive notice that ALOT of MMORPGS are the same, Click, kill, move, potion, click, move, kill. That gets repetaive and i see some MMORPGS have something oringinal (Example: FLYFF had flying which thought was quite original, flying combat was done poorly as you often nerly got yourself killed trying to get your character lined up to the monster you were trying to hit. >.>)

i dont see alot of games that stick out now that i can sink my teeth into. >.>

Well, there is an online game called Jumpgate Evolution coming out that will depend more on skill than on stats for combat. I have no idea when it's coming out, but when it does I'll be one of the first to sign up for it. I miss playing Freelancer online, though limited it was.

Hopefully they've figured out ways to keep griefers from ruining the game...

Jumpgate is just as grind heavy as any other MMO. You still need to fight random enemies, mine materials and complete quests to earn levels and money to upgrade your ship. Instead of stats, you're upgrading your firepower, speed, shields, etc. Plus, with what I've seen of the gameplay, it doesn't look like skill will be all that important outside of PVP play (where you'll still find that people with better upgrades will have an advantage).

Personally, I'm in favor of companies endorsing private servers. It's possible to do them these days, but not encouraged, and often against the TOS.

The only way I can see private servers working is if the game itself is nothing more than a core game play system and editing tools. Too much work goes into actually creating the world in an MMO to finance development without the supplemental income from monthly payments, cash shops or advertising, all three of which are impossible with private servers. I agree that calling in the RPG police to monitor games really isn't the solution to the problem, but I think there are other ways to address the issue with the game play or the way in which the world is constructed. MMOs need a simply set of tools for world construction so that the people who maintain the world can add stuff to it dynamically and frequently.