Saw the animations ,but never read the comics. There just seems to be too much of them and I never had the heart to pay around $5 for 20 pages with a big cliffhanger on the end. Manga has more bulk in a graphic novel. I know American comics have real drawing talent and coloring done to them ,but it's so hard to get into something that has a million previous issues to them.

What do you think of american comics? Story? Art style? Do you read them/ buy them?

As for DC and Marvel comics I have this to say: Amazing artwork, inking, and coloring (really awesome) but the stories fall flat. They rely to much on action. I love action, but with the kind of ability that these mainstream artists have I feel they could be doing something...more.

MisterSpook

Well, it sounds like all you're talking about is superhero comics. And if you think that is the one and only expression of "American" comics then you're sadly mistaken. I guess the big crux for American stuff is as much a question of when as it is a question of what.

I guess you are quite right about that. I don't just mean superhero american comics. I mean those comics books that are on the shelves of the adverage comic book store that are not manga.
I have checked out Bone the comic. It's very intriging. It's in a big volume now and I'm reading every so often when I'm in the library.

ccs1989

As for DC and Marvel comics I have this to say: Amazing artwork, inking, and coloring (really awesome) but the stories fall flat. They rely to much on action. I love action, but with the kind of ability that these mainstream artists have I feel they could be doing something...more.

Now I have to ask you man... did you read the american comic book cover to cover, all dialogue, to make that statement? Because I think their story is flat too, BUT I have only paged through an american comic book. I have never took the time to actually read one.

One thing I think that is incredibly funny is the still incredible fanbase for american comic books. I heard many unsuccessful stories of VERY popular webcomic makers that bring their stuff to an american comic cons and be completely ignored compared to comics of the generic superheros. It must be a whole other world there.

The thing about a lot of those sorts of comics is that they're franchises, not just creative works. Too many chefs, if you will. Batman isn't allowed to change too much because the advertising guys don't want to have to restructure their product line to match whatever new personality he ends up with.

Still, there's a lot of great work coming out these days. I'm really getting attached to some of the Ultimate Marvel stuff; check out Mark Millar's run on The Ultimates to see some great takes on what sort of effects real heroes would have. Speaking of heroes in the "Real World," The Watchmen is a comics classic for a damn good reason. The coloring is a bit slap-shod (which was just how things were done at the time, unfortunately) but it's built on a very solid story.


The problem with a lot of Superhero fare is that, since it's been going for so long it ends up with a very "been there, done that" feel. There's a tendency in comics these days to take a premise that looks really stupid by itself, then try to make something meaningful and deep out of it. Some people do it better than others, but you shouldn't discount them on that account.

Really, though, there's no seriously complaint I've ever had about an American comic that I couldn't find a facsimile of in Japanese (or any other country, for that matter) comics. It's close-minded to assume that the nationality of a comic is an automatic judgement of quality.


I will agree, though, that it's easier to get into a manga series since the graphic novel system is so thoroughly accepted, since you don't have to worry about keeping up with a monthly series.

I like some American comics, but usually the independent/creator-owned ones. There are no franchise titles that I can think of that I like. The further a comic strays from an individual person's vision, the weaker the comic... IMO.

Bone is excellent, I need to get ahold of book 9 and for some reason it's out of print (when none of the others are) :evil:

Mr. Blank and Sparks are also sexcellent... Goodbye, Chunky Rice.... Powers, Hellboy (some BPRD), comics like Preacher, Lucifer, Usagi Yojimbo, etc.

I think the only Japanese or Manga comic I collect is Blade of the Immortal, and I've been getting a bit bored with it now. The current storyline seems interesting though, so perhaps I will hang in a while longer.

Generally manga is too full of self-centered personal relationships for me. There are some ones I quite like, such as Spiral, which is weird and scary. But from the relationship-type mangas that I've seen, I find them less inspired than many American comics that the original poster is complaining about.

skoolmunkee
Generally manga is too full of self-centered personal relationships for me. There are some ones I quite like, such as Spiral, which is weird and scary. But from the relationship-type mangas that I've seen, I find them less inspired than many American comics that the original poster is complaining about.

I'm not complaining about American comics. I'm curious about them. They seem so subculture compared to the manga culture of Japan. American comics have such a stigma as being read only by young boys and creepy, nerdy men.

I only really heard of today's comic books from the Jay and Silent Bob movies like "Chasing Amy".

Manga has it's good ones and bad ones. I was disapointed going to a anime con a few weeks ago and not finding any good manga to buy. I think you mean "self-centered personal relationships" as in shojo manga right? There is only a few shojo mangas that I like yet even in the ones I like there seems to be too much love triangles and two guys staring too close in eachother's face in a near kiss.

Jillyfoo
Now I have to ask you man... did you read the american comic book cover to cover, all dialogue, to make that statement? Because I think their story is flat too, BUT I have only paged through an american comic book. I have never took the time to actually read one.

Yeah, I own quite a few American comics. Vertigo comics are usually all well written and illustrated, but the mainstream stuff, especially from Marvel, ususally relies on witty quips and art to pull it through. The dialogue is solid, but it's not exceptional or anything.

Actually, it was the HUGE amount of dialouge that made me STOP reading mainstream comics. I ended up reading smaller press comics, but those kept getting cancelled or bought up by bigger companies!

I have been loking through the Ultimate titles, though. Cool idea... but now I'm just getting confused.

i usually just buy tpb, lately i've only just purchased 100 bullets tpb. i hate cliffhangers and single issues. my comics are all spread out so when i want to read a single story i have to hunt them all down. i like shorter stories that only last 4 issues "red" "unkown soldier" "pride and joy" good stories wihtout having it stretch out too far.

im actually pretty pissed at the comic industry now. all these good stories that never ended properly. necrowar, weapon zero, battle chasers...etc

so im boycotting it. I only buy 100 bullets because i know azzarello and risso are dependeble and they wont stop unless they die or the comic ends at 100.

Now me, I have no money whatsoever, as well as a lack of comics stores around me, so I have to take what I can get from the local public library. The selection is mostly predictable (Marvel Super Ultimate Omega Infinity Justice Spiderman Three: The Extended Edition), but there have been some very unusual and surprisingly good selections there, too (Flight 1,The Rabbi's Cat, Summer Blonde, Narcissa, Leave It To Chance, Heavy Liquid, and, to my delight, Bizarro Comics). You just have to keep your eyes open, I guess.

Still... since I only read a few trade paperbacks and webcomics, my knowledge of the entire comics universe is actually very narrow. I'm assuming that American superhero comics are facing the same circumstance that punk rock did in 1979 or electronica did in 2001: The genre is dead as a doornail, but some people just won't let go.

Overall, I think that American comics can be good... if you know where to look. As far as I've heard, the West has a much more widespread independent comics population than the East. (And a lot of that stuff is on the Web instead of in print, due to publishing issues. That's why reading webcomics is important: We are the revolution, and the revolution is now! Yaaaaaaay!)

~IJ

Yeah, as much as people say Japan is the 'mecca' for comics, the whole country is mostly filled with people copying the animation house style and selling doujinshi. Boring.

Actually, more so than emulating punk rock, superhero comics seem to be going through nearly the same thing they did in the 90's: trying too hard to be "Hip and edgy", and forcing out huge, franchise-wide crossovers that require people to buy 5 or more titles a month just to keep up with the story. At least we haven't seen such a resurgence of alternate covers, foil covers, holographic stuff, etc. Y'know; the gimmicky junk that doesn't contribute in any way to the quality of the comic.

I don't know... for me, a lot of manga has a kind of "been there, done that" feel to it. I like manga, but not enough to read it regularly.

American superhero comics on the other hand, seem to have more substance. Many of the titles have had years, decades even, to flesh out characters and make them into real people. While they tend to carry the stigma of "sweaty fanboy", many superhero comics are read by the general populace. I'm a Marvel fan, X-men in particular, and I started by reading a plotline that was propably concieved when I was a toddler. I like the security that long running superhero comics carry; it seems almost like a promise that these characters will countinue to live and thrive and become real. Readers like me are the kind of people who ignore newer stuff at comic-cons, although if I found something eyecatching I'd visit it.

I do tend to wait until a whole storyline is printed in a graphic novel though, rather than reading each indivdual issue. I like to find out what happens.

yea....whats up with manga and pron. even light stories have a girl in a bathtub or in the shower added even though it doesn't have anything to do with the story.

Huh, freaky XD

Anyways, pretty much the only type of comic I ever read is web-based... so of the webcomics I read, the vast majority of 'em are definitely American, so yeah... I certainly recommend that type of American comic!

Besides, it's free that way ^^

I've been reading Preacher

..ugh.. Preacher. I read that about a year ago - don't get me wrong, it has great action, but for me the story falls kind of flat. To their credit though I read the whole goddamned series because every page was a cliffhanger. I also really enjoyed the art.

As for me? I stick with webcomics, and reading manga and comic books and graphic novels in the stores. I've read a lot of good stuff that way, and a lot of bad stuff. Read all of V for Vendetta and Preacher that way. Also some Kare Kano.

*shrugs* For my money, I'd rather buy the manga because there's more in it - not neccessarily more to it.

And, I've never understood the perpetual need for random panty shots in some animes and mangas, or the half naked in the bathtub scene. Just because it's a different culture without a taboo on sexuality the way America has a taboo on it, doesn't mean it makes any sense whatsoever, from a pure story-telling point of view.

Well you got me convinced. I should try some out. May 6th at the Source in St. Paul, MN is free comic book day. Gonna get me a big bag of free comic books.

Be careful; most comic shops only hand out one or two free comics per customer on Free comic book day. Personally, I recommend any smaller-press comic releases, if they have any. They have a tendency to try and put their best face forward (since the cost of printing comics for that day is more of a strain to them).

I read a lot more american comics than mangas. You just have to know where to look for good stories, so here is some recommended reading:

Pirate Club

Batman: The Long Halloween

Superman: Red Son

Lions, Tigers, and Bears

Hsu and Chan: Too Much Adventure

Lullaby

Invicible

I have pretty much stopped reading American and European comics since I discovered manga. But that is not really to say that I don't like American comics. As stated before, there is a great variety among the American comics as well.
When I was little I read X-men, Spiderman, Hulk, Superman, Fantastic Four as that was what was available for me - and I liked it a lot.
Later I started on TPB and have read and much enjoyed such modern classics as Bone, Preacher, Cerebus, Scud the Disposable Assassin, Concrete and my absolute alltime favorite GROO! (those was just the ones that are in my bookshelf). But basically now I read manga because I haven't explored it much yet and it is readily available at the moment.
Although I haven't found any new really interesting stuff for a while. I read Gunm (Battle Angel Alita), Blade of the Immortal, Shirow's stuff ( Ghost in the Shell etc.) Ranma½, One Piece, GTO, Nausicaa and hope that there will be a Spirit of Wonder 2.

subcultured
yea....whats up with manga and pron. even light stories have a girl in a bathtub or in the shower added even though it doesn't have anything to do with the story.

One thing I think is funny about that is the fact that when Marvel did that 'Mangaverse' they had nudity in it. As if to say 'We have nudity, therefore it's manga!'.

Also I find it weird that a conservative society such as Japan thinks sex is okay. You have to go to a special store to buy condoms with an ID, and it's not like abortion is legal over there. I think sex is actually more taboo over there than we think it is from reading their manga.

ccs1989
I think sex is actually more taboo over there than we think it is from reading their manga.

Maybe that's why it's so popular in entertainment then? :wink:

"I think the only Japanese or Manga comic I collect is Blade of the Immortal, and I've been getting a bit bored with it now. The current storyline seems interesting though, so perhaps I will hang in a while longer. " (skoolmunkee)

- yeah, I just finished the Trickster tradepaperback yesterday. Blade of the immortal is great, but it seems the author is delaying the story and (spoiler?) instead filling a whole book (150 - 200 pages) with a duel. That sucks.

"i usually just buy tpb, lately i've only just purchased 100 bullets tpb. i hate cliffhangers and single issues. my comics are all spread out so when i want to read a single story i have to hunt them all down. i like shorter stories that only last 4 issues "red" "unkown soldier" "pride and joy" good stories wihtout having it stretch out too far." (subcultured)

- I hate comics which do not end, but make the plot continue on and on. I prefer a begining, a middle and an end (webcomics too).

Manga has a distinctive art style. Do "american" comics have a distinctive art style, and WHY do you call it manga and american comics. What about comics from europe??

I pretty much hate superhero comics (isnt it funny that I read Blade of the immortal then?). I like the so called graphic novels; stories which happen to be a comic. The majority of my comic collection is manga. But some hot western comics include: Strangehaven (think Twin Peaks. Comes highly recommended).

And the manga: 2001 night (Future evolution of mankind), Blade of the immortal, Ghost in the shell (great. Ghost in the shell 2 sucked).

The reason why I hate superhero comics is the nerdy stigma they put on comics overall in europe (at least where I live), and I guess thats the reason I like the serious story driven comics... I think.

Ethnic? Heh, well...
I'm outside the US, but I wouldn't call American comics ethnic, but then I wouldn't call the comics from any other country ethnic either... In fact, I think that's probably a bit narrow minded.
At least it sounds that way. :wink:

Pshaw! It's STILL narrow minded because of the context.
What's this? American and "ethinic" comics? Jebus man, the world's a bigger place than that!

When I got back into liking comics again, I really enjoyed the ones in Heavy Metal magazine. The comics in there came from all over the world, but I suppose that's not important because they're just "ethnic"?

I don't read many comics personally. American comics are much like those from anywhere else that I've seen, except for there being more superhero stuff. "Alternative and Indie" things are pretty universal.

What I was addressing was of course this:

I enjoy American comics. =D

In many ways, I like them more than other "ethnic" comics.

I'm not changing my point :roll:
I took that as being "American comics" and the rest were "ethnic". I don't care if he snubs them. He can if he wants and that’s fine.

But maybe he was just using the term incorrectly… as you seem to be doing. If you need a word for comics that are not American, then “ethnic” in the context isn’t really what you’re looking for… This is very important semantically because the usage carries a lot of meanings.
If there is meant to be no insulting overtone of superiority to the statement then it should perhaps read:
“I like them more than comics from other countries.”

It’s not about being politically correct; it’s about understanding the nuisances of the English language and the fact that certain words and phrases are not interchangeable, even though they have similar meanings and usages.

And I never said that anything was the same, I said “"Alternative and Indie" things are pretty universal”, i.e. you get that sort of thing everywhere, not in the themes, but as in an alternative to more commercial styles. This is the logic of the publishing industry: less popular, niche, “interesting”, or experimental stuff always exists on the fringes, pretty much everywhere. –Not arguing a point, just stating a fact.

Oh?!! And what’s my assumption about you? That’s interesting… :D



Don't mind me. There's nothing happening in the debate forum, so stuff like this is all there is.

That statement assumes nothing; it's talking about my original point. -In a nice, striking, attention grabbing way. I rather like the way that sentence was put together actually. Short and sweet, appearing confrontational when it wasn’t really…

As for “other”, it’s irrelevant. The problem was:

”ethnic”

The inverted commas separate it clearly from American. If the intention was ever ethnic American comics and the comics of other ethnicities, then the quotation marks sort of kill that. ;)

Yep, that’s a funny typo, grammar can be funny too. :lol:

Negative assumptions? I'm just going by what's written and how it’s written. You’re doing all the second guessing about motivation here.

With American comics I wasn’t expressing any opinions.

I think the quotation marks on "ethnic" imply that the poster wasn't entirely sure if ethnic was the correct word, and instead intended a rough idea of what that implies to be used in the context of their sentence.