I always appreciate a webcomic where the owner has put time into making the site design unique, it's like the packaging to the content inside...

This got me wondering; what do you notice/appreciate in a webcomic's site design? If anything?
-unique?
-theme goes with comic?
-Unobtrusive to the comic?
-Simple, you focus only on the comic?
-not a lot of ads?
-no huge banner?
-Doesn't rely on wordpress?
-Not a smackjeeve/Drunkduck template?
-Load time?
-no flash?
-extra content besides the webcomic(like a forum site)
-something else?
-Nothing?
(Please pick only 3 if you can)

My 3:
I appreciate unique above all else, and if the theme works with the comic even better. :) I used to care about load times on dail-up but now i don't. Oddly enough I dislike plain comicpress themes(i use one too) it takes the originality out of it

I'm also going to list some sites I think are cool looking and why;

http://www.shoncburysnox.com/
^Wow. Just wow. I don't like the comic personally but the site layout is one of the best I'v seen, it's use of transparency is something else. It's more focused on the layout then easy reading however.

http://blackbird.ashen-ray.com/
^more of a blog type thing but quite pretty. The comic reads like a book with folded in sides.

http://www.straysonline.com/index.htm
^amazing. The coolest part is the middle displays a piece of the latest update as a banner- looks cool with comic panels.

http://www.menagea3.net/
^his side designs are quite cool ^^

http://www.drunkduck.com/Pinky_TA/index.php
^IT has tons of ads yet they work into his layout and become part of it. I've never seen anything else like it.

http://surfboardrayguns.com/
^The theme matches the comic completely, awesome work

http://scholastic.com/amulet/
^not a webcomic but you can 'talk' to the characters. Seriously awesome.

Unique, unobtrusive, and simple.

That's pretty much it for me. If I can't navigate the thing or it has clashing elements/colors or bad animation (or any animation unless subtle and they really know what they're doing), sometimes it can be bad enough that I don't return. I like pages with personality/theme but never overpowering.

Ads are no big deal as long as they too are unobtrusive and fit in nicely. I also surf with scripts off, so it's best if a page doesn't rely on flash or java. Load times don't mean much to me, but browser crashes do.

I like uniqueness. That and the comic itself.

Uniqueness is important, because without it, every comic would be the same old thing. If people weren't to have done that, all manga would have been based on a quest with characters that look and act the same. And all American comic books would be about superheroes, and how their stories never end.

But thankfully, through innovation, we as artists are determined to change that. When people hear "comic book" we don't necessarily want them to think superhero, but rather just in general. Anything from Scud the Disposable Assassin, to some of our best DD comics.

The comic itself is also very, VERY important. Because there is two main ingredients to a good comic.

1.) Good Writing
For strips, this is basically a good joke. Not just some inside joke you and your friends come up with. Because when somebody comes and reads your comic, nobody will understand the joke. That's why it's also hard to come up with a good joke that everybody could understand.

For story comics, I personally believe it's harder. Story strips are probably the hardest, considering you're only given like, 3 to 4 panels per strip. But anyways, Story comics are the hardest because you not only have to focus on a good story, but also character development. You have to make sure EVERYTHING fits, and that everything makes sense.

If you throw something in it like, "Archound is a drunk," but never actually show him getting drunk, or being drunk, than what's the point? If you make a statement about a character in a comic, you better damn well show it! Also, if you write some cliche story, such as "They have to collect the 7 demon hearts and save the princess! But we're superheroes, just like the Power Rangers!" Nobody will want to read it.

So, basically, if a comic has good writing, than it's half good.

2.) Amazing art
For strips, this can be debate-able. There have been tons of successful comic strips that have rather, lacking art. I would give examples, but I'm not here to critcize anybody.

For story comics, it should always go halfway. Half writing, half art. If there's both amazing art and writing in a comic, then it's golden. No doubt will it suceed. But if it only has one of the qualities, it'll be a long and hard journey before they can get there. If a comic has none, I'm sorry to say, but you won't get many readers.

It really depends on your style too. Like if you're traditional, try testing out brushes (brush pens are cheaper, so go with those) or nib pens. I would only use microns for detailing myself, because they tend to run out fast, but it's all about using what you're comfortable with.

Oh wow. I'm going off-topic, aren't I?

Lemme finish this up real quick then.

Basically, just be unique, and have a good overall comic, and chances are, I'll read it ;)

Ryuthehedgewolf
Uniqueness is important, because without it, every comic would be the same old thing. If people weren't to have done that, all manga would have been based on a quest with characters that look and act the same. And all American comic books would be about superheroes, and how their stories never end.

That's great, but this thread is about site design, not the comic. Unique refers to the graphics, layout, interface, colors, font etc. on the website not within the comic itself.

Even some of the best comics on Drunkduck use the default site templates. Regardless of how unique the comics are, they have very non-unique site designs. Since your comment was about the comics rather than the sites, I'm guessing you probably don't really care that much about unique site designs. ;)

Okay, here's my $.02:
I prefer simple, easy to navigate sites that load quickly. The focus should be on the comic. Like if you were hanging art up in a gallery, you'd probably want it on a white wall. I feel the same way when I'm looking at comics. Maybe it's easier for me to list the things I don't like in a site design:

-I'm less likely to read a webcomic if the link takes me to a "news" page, instead of the most recent page/strip. A lot of times, if it takes me more than a few seconds to figure out where to click to see the actual comic, I'll do the "meh" thing and move on.

-Loud backgrounds, lots of colorful ads, or animation on a page bug me, too. I don't like anything on a page that competes with the main "information" (in this case, the comic). But I'm a bit of a minimalist when it comes to design. I like subtle fonts and unobstrusive backgrounds- "less is more". (Which is the polar opposite of how I like my art/comics. Weird.)

-The only "extra" pages I tend to read are the "cast"/"character" pages. If I really like the comic, I might check out the shop if there is one. I like the comment format more than the blog/forum as far as interacting goes. If there's a lot of different pages/links/whatever, I tend to get confused and move on.

However, I think site design (like any good design) should consider its audience. When I was younger, I definitely liked the "busier" stuff. Maybe young folks can process simultaneous stimuli better than older people? I know if 17-year-old Hyena saw 27-year-old Hyena's design, she'd probably call it boring, and attempt to punch me in the mouth. ;)

I like it when the comic itself is "above the fold" on the page (i.e., you don't have to scroll down before you can see it). Extra features are just that: extra. The main focus should always be the comic itself.

Besides that, I like layouts that are easy to navigate, with good use of color.

usedbooks

Ryuthehedgewolf
Uniqueness is important, because without it, every comic would be the same old thing. If people weren't to have done that, all manga would have been based on a quest with characters that look and act the same. And all American comic books would be about superheroes, and how their stories never end.

That's great, but this thread is about site design, not the comic. Unique refers to the graphics, layout, interface, colors, font etc. on the website not within the comic itself.

Aw man. I just ranted about the wrong thing!

Well. To me, the website design should be within the style of the comic. Mine's kinda punk, or darker. So I wanted to go with some simple black/blue stripes. Accompanied by the buttons with cool blue text.

But like UsedBooks said, even some of the best DD comics have the pre-designed layouts. But it's always better to make one of your own. One that fits the style of the comic of course ;)

Quick loading times are important to me - less so for a series of short stand-alone gag-strips but very important for long-form story comics. If there's a cliff-hanger at the end of a page, the suspense should be driven by the writing and the art, not by forcing the reader to wonder whether the next page is ever going to finish loading! This is partly related to the next point. In the main, the more "customised" a page is, the longer its load time seems to be.

Ease of navigation is vital - the comic itself should be the most prominent part of the design, closely followed by the Next and Previous buttons. Links to extras that the majority of readers might find useful or interesting (forums, maybe?) should be easy to spot. To avoid the page looking cluttered, however, links to other features which only a few might want to check out, should be tucked away somewhere unobtrusive.

Ads are a necessary evil - they do detract from the main comic and features but we all undertand why they're there. As long as they're built into the design in such a way that they don't overwhelm the main content, I can live with them.

Unique, unobtrusive, and simple, yes. There are a few comics I haven't read simply because their web design was atrocious. (There were banners everywhere, too, to top it all off - literally banners bordering the top, edges, and bottom of the page, totally outweighing the tiny comic.)

Quick loading time became less of an issue to me when I finally dropped my ten-year dial-up yoke, but I still consider it when I can. (It's just too tempting to use PNG-24s for all my pretty transparency needs...) Luckily, if you're a good designer, you know how to code so your web graphics cache and how to save so your pages aren't needlessly huge. ;)

Cluttered navigation (or cluttered anything, including the comic itself) is also a turnoff. A clear hierarchy of information is very important to me, as I will dig through the entire contents of a webcomic site if I like it enough. (That is to say, I'm also very fond of extra content and a little disappointed when comics don't have it, but it's not a huge deal.) A prevalent theme isn't necessary, but it sure is appreciated when people go that far.

For creative purposes (and to stretch my knowledge), I made 4 different CSS-controlled layouts for people to select on Lovefeast's main site. It was quite the fun undertaking with a light version of skinning. I'd like to see people do that more - it's actually not that time-consuming once you've made your decisions.

I'ma have to think for a bit on which webcomics' site designs really stand out to me. A lot of them I've seen lately very obviously run on Wordpress or variations thereof, and I haven't seen many of them break its mold. To mention a few quickly, Juathuur Gatecrash has its own unique look, Lackadaisy is one of the best I've seen based on graphics, Undertow has always had cool layouts, and while a little busy and Flash-reliant, Star Cross'd Destiny [starcrossd.net] has its own look.

(I'm a huge web geek lately and have spent a lot of my time these last few months designing, hehehe)

Skullbie
-unique?
-theme goes with comic?
-Unobtrusive to the comic?

Also, it's a good idea to have the comic on the front page, so it's the first thing you see, have first, forward, etc. buttons on the top and bottom of the comic, and keep the comic centred.

unobtrusive and load time.

i remember reading a gag webcomic but each page was a png that was around 1-2 mb.

"goddammit, why am i waiting so long just to read 3 lines!?"

i stopped after 5 pages.

megan_rose
I like it when the comic itself is "above the fold" on the page (i.e., you don't have to scroll down before you can see it). Extra features are just that: extra. The main focus should always be the comic itself.

I agree entirely with this. I can't stand webcomic sites that put the comic on a second sub-page. I'm not after blogs, opinions, and editorials when I go to a webcomic site.

I agree with Custard Trout, too. Put those navigation buttons right there next to the comic. Don't make me scroll past all the user comments to get to the "next page" button. Having them both above and below the comic page is nice.

Hawk

megan_rose
I like it when the comic itself is "above the fold" on the page (i.e., you don't have to scroll down before you can see it). Extra features are just that: extra. The main focus should always be the comic itself.

I agree entirely with this. I can't stand webcomic sites that put the comic on a second sub-page. I'm not after blogs, opinions, and editorials when I go to a webcomic site.

What's sad is, I used to break this rule myself.

In order of importance to me, a webcomic's website must be...

Easy to navigate. While I do look at extras and such, the first thing I look at when fishing for a new webcomic is how easy the website is to navigate. If the navigation bar is too cluttered, or if it is unclear where to find things, I will probably drop the comic from my bookmarks. It doesn't matter quite so much for the comics that are well written and/or drawn/rendered, but I appreciate it when the author makes it easier for new readers to get into the comic.

Aesthetically pleasing. Balancing the website's colors with the color palette of the comic itself is a plus. It's less distracting to the eye, and helps the reader identify a vague theme in the comic. (A lot of the more serious comics that I've read seem to have darker, richer, or more muted colors, for example.)

Uncluttered. This sort of goes with both ease of navigation and aesthetics. While I don't mind a banner here or there, I'm not too fond of an overload of advertisements. On that same note, I'm not a fan of having too many graphics on the main page of the website, or the archive.

I'd also like to add that a webcomic should have it clearly labelled when a comic updates, if it updates regularly. Alternatively, it'd also be nice if the sporadically-updating webcomics would tell the readers somewhere that a new page doesn't always appear once a week. (Normally, I try to avoid getting hooked on webcomics that I don't know will ever update again, but every once in a while it happens.)
But the point is... if you clearly label when you update (such as on the title image itself), you're more likely to have returning visitors. They know when to come back right from the get-go.

EDIT: Why does the "italics" button post my post before I'm done writing it?

Speck
EDIT: Why does the "italics" button post my post before I'm done writing it?

I had that problem for a while last year. Send a PQ to one of the admins or post a thread in the "Help! How Do I ...?" section. I don't know if anyone fixed it for me especially or whether it resolved itself in the last big site revamp, but mine works fine now.

Oh, be careful if you are sending a PQ. You'll probably find you have the same problem with those. Try to put anything in italics (or bold) and your PQ will be sent before you've finished!

As a stop-gap solution, you can type in the and manually. Not ideal, but it will tide you over.

Thanks for he compliment on my ad incorporating template Skull ^_^

Yeah I always hated ads on sites... But I got into the ad thing a couple of years ago for various reasons and needed to make them fit, so I did. I worked ok and since then I've helped a few others to fit ads into their sites as well. :)

I prefer simple stylish sites with fast load times. -and no stupid blogs to get through to get to the content.
-But getting through a blog first is OK if it's not a site I don't visit regularly.

-Getting to further content in the site must be obvious and easy to do, and navigation should be consistent.

-Not too much flash unless it's done really well like on Alphashade. Some people put in pointless flash navigations and silly intros everywhere. UGH! It's a huge pain.

-----------
There are a lot of challenges that prevent your site from being too simple. I had to deal with a lot of those when making my template:
-Pages of varying widths and heights shouldn't break the template.
-Lots of ads have to fit in with things.
-LOTS of links to other content have to be incorporated but not overwhelm.

... That's all quite tricky really. Making a simple stylish template is actually pretty easy, the problems is trying to keep it that way when you have a lot of content.

My .02$

-The comic should be the first thing I see. No scrolling or clicking on links. This is why I hate the mainpage or whatever template for drunk duck.

-Navigation buttons should be at the top and bottom of the comic; the top so I can scroll quickly when it's a strip I've read already and the bottom so I can scroll after I read a new comic. There should also be an archive link relatively close to the pointers.

-Keep ads to a minimum. A tower or header ad and maybe some buttons on the side but if ads start blending into actual links then you have a problem.

That's about it. Three simple things that can make or break a site for me.

DAJB

Speck
EDIT: Why does the "italics" button post my post before I'm done writing it?

I had that problem for a while last year. Send a PQ to one of the admins or post a thread in the "Help! How Do I ...?" section. I don't know if anyone fixed it for me especially or whether it resolved itself in the last big site revamp, but mine works fine now.

Oh, be careful if you are sending a PQ. You'll probably find you have the same problem with those. Try to put anything in italics (or bold) and your PQ will be sent before you've finished!

As a stop-gap solution, you can type in the and manually. Not ideal, but it will tide you over.

It only seems to do this in certain browsers- I think older versions of IE, or something? It's basically a bad matchup between the script used to pop the code in, and the browser trying to interpret it. There's not really a way around it other than different browsers, or just typing things in manually as you suggested. :[

Clicking any of the text formatting buttons in any version of Safari submits the post. It's weeeird.

Anyway, on both my comics' main pages, I have a large thumbnail linking to the latest comic page because the full pages would break the templates. They're at the top and very noticeable in all layouts. I always wondered if that turned people off, though.

I wonder if it'd be better to have a smaller sized version of the full page or keep them as a cropping of the page, as I have them now (oooh, suspense)? (But back when I did a smaller version of the full page I knew of someone who was "so busy" they "only read the small version" which I thought was a little odd, and I didn't want people just doing that, either.)

Hyena H_ll
I know if 17-year-old Hyena saw 27-year-old Hyena's design, she'd probably call it boring, and attempt to punch me in the mouth. ;)

i've said that many times now....if 18 year old, mohawk json met me now, he'd beat my ass.

i believe in the "less is more" rule, as well. i don't need a busy site. i just want to read the comic. and if it isn't a "big name" make some comments about the latest page. i don't like how on PA i'm always directed to the pretentious news page, when i could be reading the day's comic that isn't that funny.
(for the record, i do like their comics....they've just seem to be wanting to write 12-24 panel serials instead of the 3 panel strip they do......just f**k it and make a new serial site, or stick with a serial style format and break it up with an obscure joke that isn't that funny!)

Oh yeah, one more thing, specific to Drunkduck: "homepages" here annoy the piss out of me, as they're usually completely pointless and offer nothing extra but another bar to page-viewing. Of course, they have the potential to be very useful, like actual personal webpages, but not many people utilize that potential.

Matching the comic, Simple and easy to go through.

for everyone that hates the comic on a sub page, well comics is only 1 of the thing for my site (like gallery, tutorials and commission info) and well, 1 domain is enough for me now.

I do however, have a pic on the very first page that will show part of the new page and link directly to it. Plus the site is simple design enough.

is that enough of a compromise?

I've been thinking about this a lot since the topic came up. And I decided that my comic did not have a site design that had it been someone else's comic, I would not have been impressed.

So I have endeavored to update the design thanks to all you posters here :)


----------------

Now, I think web design is a very important aspect of what draws me to read a comic.

It is just like a book cover. Sure you are not supposed to judge a book by its cover, but really....when you are pressed for time and there are a million and one things to choose from, a certain amount of that gets pushed to the side.

I tend to read the comics which look like the author/artist has put a great deal of time/effort/love into. If the site is not good looking it unconsciously taints the product in the consumer mind. It is a bit like a hook in a story. You look deeper because of the layout but you stay because the comic has quality.

That is not to say that there are not GREAT comics out there with crappy layouts, there are. However, due to time, and the fickleness of man...well...these don't always get the views they deserve.

This does not mean that ALL personalized layouts are awesome. I've come across some frightening layouts (think bright oranges, yellows and purples with huge eye shattering shapes), and a layout does not have to be complex or even difficult t design in order to be clean an attractive to the eye.

As has been said above, the layout should reflect the comic to a degree as well. Color schemes, Font, and shapes are all important aspects of the layout.

http://www.flylanddesigns.com/theends/

Just found this one, VERY cool and simple.

Word! It's got the perfect blend of interesting design and simplicity. Great comic, too. My only gripe is that it's not centered on the screen; could just be mine, though.

Here's a nice-lookin' one I found recently .

-default Center comic pages (that's one thing that ticks me off about comicgenesis)

-archive or page jump nav

-Do not like calender navs (another thing that ticks me off about comicgenesis)

-Home pages are ok as long as they got a thumbnail clicky of latest page

-Nav buttons on top and bottom are ok

design hardly matters at all aslong as the comic is showing and the comic is good. Aslong as you see the comic the moment you open the page its all good. But if you have a huge banner and have to scroll down to see the comic then you better bet I'm not going to read your comic. Also if you use any sort of Gif I assume you're 5 years old and just got onto the interwebs. Honestly the design of the site doesnt matter to me at all, I've read comics with poorly designed sites and well designed sites its all about the comic being the first thing you see.