Notice how there seems to be less and lesser comic stores around lately? Not to be an alarmist, but we've had about 6-7 comic stores in or around Atlanta close within the last year, plus about 2 anime stores, 4 gaming stores, plus all the Media Play/Suncoasts getting booted. Now this might seem alot for some people who only have like 1 or 2 comic stores in their whole state, but it's a pretty sure indication that geek-related retails stores are getting serious phased out. Since alot of stuff nowadays is all internet and mail order, there's little need for actually going outside and driving to a store somewhere. But real collectors are more finicky than that. They need to make sure they're getting their Wed. worth of new comics. However, there's been a major drop in the market lately. This isn't so much due to the advent of bookstore chains with graphic novels, but partially. It's due largely to the changes the business itself has undergone with major distributors like Diamond forcing certain conditions on the retailers, plus the rise on postage and gasoline prices has also has a major toll on it too.

So, given all that, what's your input into how we as "geeks" should handle this situation, and what can be done to make it smoother on everyone.

Once the masses notice that there is a gap in the comicbook market and if there is still a large demand for the actual store, they'll come back once its profitable again. I imagine it will be. Comic books are becoming more popular in the media by them suddenly becoming the majority of movie scripts...and that's where all the profit is for comic book producers these days. So they don't have much interest in keeping the comic book store alive.



The books themselves have become moot but for the diehard fans, and they can get them elsewhere online, like you said. I guess comic stores need a new gimic to make them a more invaluable source to the fans, broad enough to appeal to the non-comic geek, and profitable enough to keep themselves open.

Dedicated stores aren't as necessary as they once were. There are still some dedicated fans to American comics, but most of the stores that stick around have to find other ways to attract customers. There are no dedicated comic stores around here. They all expanded their wares to include RPGs, CCGs, anime, manga, soundtracks, and videogames. Even with the expansion, though, most people can find the majority of those things in larger retail chains like Borders, Best Buy, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, and various other retail chains. I've seen a lot of people who prefer to hit the Borders on weekends and plant themselves in the coffee shop with a stack of manga rather than have a comic store clerk lecture them about reading in the store.

.: isukun :.

I know what you mean, jalford. A great comic store in my town closed September of last year because people weren't buying enough. It was a really awesome store. :(

Now I just use the Internet.

I blame manga.
I mean... it's the only print comics I read, and you can just get them at Borders. And I don't even read that much manga. Only two or three series pretty much.
But I used to love just browsing comic book stores and picking up an old issue of X-men or an action figure or something. There was a time when every town around here had one, but they've pretty much all packed up and left.

I get the feeling that many stores try to shun the casual buyer, which leads to becoming a niche market.

The few stores I've gone to back when I lived in Savannah, the second I stepped foot inside and wasn't jumping for the newest Spiderman, they rolled their eyes and went back to arguing over which villians would win in a fight.

They stopped carrying many of the books I bought, even after I requested multiple times that myself and a few friends DID indeed buy the damn thing monthly. Pretty much they lost my money after many months of this elitist BS.

Stores need to stop trying to be some 'secret club', and break this 'smells like mom's basment' sterotype they have.

Wonder why manga is selling so damn well? You can go to your friendly near by Boarders and get it. No need to brave the dark depths of a comicbook store anymore.

Personally, I wouldn't care if comic book stores died out. It might give the comic industry a better image, and maybe get a little more respect like it does in Europe and Asia.

Actually, that is kind of where web comics come in. They are the new venue for the little guy.

.: isukun :.

Behold the internet? I think the 'little guy' can do better than being tossed in the 'indie' bin at the local comic hole.

The internet can be a great and vast palce to pick up readers (and buyers) no matter what subject you write on, instead of only having your work out for sale only aimed at people who already read comics.

Maybe I've just jaded from being to so many shitty stores that only cater to those interested in spandex and capes, and couldn't give a flying frick about anything that might be slightly outside the box.

I hate to break it to you, but self publishing doesn't make you any money, either. It is actually easier to find income online than through self publishing and selling your stuff through small comic book stores. You have no printing costs and can get more exposure. The thing about web comics is that popularity is often determined by the quality of the comic, either visual quality or literary. If a comic sucks, it won't sell in a store, either, and then you've wasted a bit of money making up your low quality comics that nobody will even look at.

.: isukun :.

stardusty
I blame manga.

I blame Japan. I blame the american studio executives who have over-saturated the market to the point of an ever nearing bubble burst. At some point, everyone has to wake the fuck up and say "jesus christ, we actually liked Fred Durst?" Because trust me, six or seven years ago Fred Durst was considered to be a cool trendsetting awesome guy. Now everyone, and I do mean everyone (even Fred himself) realize how much of a terrible character that he is.

It just takes people a few years before fads die out.

Right now, the direct comic book market is where its at. Also hurting the stores is downloading comic book scans. Oh and webcomics. Who wants to read comic books when you've got thousands of rip offs that are drawn by even bigger drama queens then Mark Miller that update even less then they do, right on your internets for free.

stardusty
I blame manga.

I blame Japan. I blame the american studio executives who have over-saturated the market to the point of an ever nearing bubble burst. At some point, everyone has to wake the fuck up and say "jesus christ, we actually liked Fred Durst?" Because trust me, six or seven years ago Fred Durst was considered to be a cool trendsetting awesome guy. Now everyone, and I do mean everyone (even Fred himself) realize how much of a terrible character that he is.

It just takes people a few years before fads die out.

Right now, the direct comic book market is where its at. Also hurting the stores is downloading comic book scans. Oh and webcomics. Who wants to read comic books when you've got thousands of rip offs that are drawn by even bigger drama queens then Mark Miller that update even less then they do, right on your internets for free.

I think part of the problem is American comics aside from the small independent comics that hardly get any publicity(if any at all) have a serious problem with branching out.

Take spider-man for example. I LOVE spider-man, my all time favorite super-hero. Problem: Amazing spider-man has been going on since the 1960's up to today. It's already at issue 500 something and has had hundreds of different writers and artists over the years that have constantly changed things up.

What new comic readers today would suddenly just pick up an issue They'd be too lost.

I think that's part of why Manga is so popular from most of my own experience is that every manga series I've read has been done by one person, who created their own story, characters and ended their story at their choosing instead of having someone pick up writing it after they've gotten tired of it and keeping the thing going on and on and on. Most mangas start and finish their stories and that leaves room open for new story ideas for those eager to find them.

American comic books aren't quite set up that way. I think we've made attempts but they just never took root. With die hard fans of fifty year old comics series who would have a serious fit if say superman was finally 'finished' theirs no way that american comic book publishers are simply going to 'wrap up' those long lasting 'flash ship' titles.

Long story, short, as long as were still pumping out issue 1293 of Superman and spider-man and all the rest, the industry is going to be choked out leaving no room for new and interesting ideas that'll never even get a chance to shine and be seen by more than just a handful of comic book readers.

Do you even know how Eastman and Laird got their start? It sure doesn't sound like it. First of all, TMNT wasn't their first comic project. They had worked on a variety of dud independent comics before that. Second, despite self publishing the first issue of TMNT, they didn't sell their comics through stores, but placed an ad in Comic Buyer's Guide magazine and then sold directly to distibutors. Things worked out for them because they happened to have a product that appealed to people and they didn't try to sell their comics through their local comic book store.

There is a big difference between what they did and the typical small time self publisher who tries to get shelf space at his local comic shop. Also keep in mind, what they did was a risk, one that would be much more expensive in the current day and age and likely less effective.

The web poses little to no risk and can bring in enormous amounts of income if you have a popular product. Comics like Penny Arcade and Megatokyo make more than enough to support their respective artists. A better example may be Fans which started as a self-published print comic which was a flop and then turned around to be quite pofitable online. T Campbell started out selling his comics through comic book stores, found there was no income to be made in the market and took his product online. Today, he makes most of his money through web entertainment.

.: isukun :.

It doesn't matter. In fact, you just helped prove my point about the entire market. That if you have a good product, people will buy it. People that fail outside the web fail because they don't know what the hell they're doing. Period.

A fluke is not indicative of how the market works. What Eastman and Laird did is not how most independent comic artists sell their ideas. They either find a small time publisher or they sell directly to stores. Neither method makes a lot of money for the artist. Period.

You want a good example of how independent comics work, look at American Splendor. Harvey Pekar was able to build a pretty strong following self publishing his comics, yet he never made enough to quit his day job. That's your average "little guy."

Just because two people managed to hit it big by starting their own publishing house that doesn't mean the average Joe has that kind of money. As I stated before, what they did back in '83 is not nearly as cheap or effective today, especially when the market is so divided.

Online, you eventually hit a brick wall where your audience ends.

This statement doesn't mean much. It holds true for offline artists and franchises, as well. Modern web comics haven't shown any less staying power than modern print comics.

They both print. Proving once again that there isn't any kind of "war" that people keep talking about between print and web. I think you're really missing the point here.

I think you're missing the point here. Do you honestly think either Megatokyo or Penny Arcade would make any money from their print publications if they hadn't first been online? Fred Gallagher wouldn't have gotten the deal with Dark Horse if he didn't already have a following. Jerry and Mike gave up print publication for a while because their first book attempt was a flop. In both cases, the comics make more through advertising than through their print publications. That is the way it works with most popular web comics.

Now my biggest question is how does anything you've said support this idea:

Actually, comic book stores dying out would be horrible for the industry. The small guy wouldn't have any place to go to sell his book.

Quite frankly, Eastman and Laird didn't make their money by selling their comics to stores. Harvey Pekar seems to make more now that he has a web site. In fact, there are quite a few independent and underground artists who have moved their comics online to better promote themselves and offer a better environment for selling their comics and merchandise.

.: isukun :.

I live in a town between two college towns. There are six comic shops in the area. I can only see one of the shops staying alive for a long time.

The shop is run by a lawyer that plays Warhammer 40,000 and a tatoo artist that loves comics. While this store tries to get new customers, new people just don't come.

I think dedicated fans are going be the ones to support the shops. The people at my favorite shop, work for the shop. We bag the comics, shelve the comics, alot of us even have the shop uniform. I even done school projects where I worked for the store.

The casual reader will not help keep comic stores alive.

I'm curious, are American comic shops the only stores to sell comics? How about bookshops or newsstands? And only 2-10 stores in a state? It sounds pretty sad to me. :?

I dont know bout you americans but our comic shops sell playboys and hussler.

I said it a thousand times and I'll say it again. Its two completely different forms of art. Both sequential, but not in the same world. Whether or not one is superior, I can only guess, but don't care.

We're talking different venues. Whether on the web or in a store, they are still comics. The only difference is in how they appeal to their audience. Whether they sell them online or through a small comic shop, they are not fundamentally different. My argument is and always was that the web provides a viable alternative for small time publishers and independent artists to selling comics through comic shops. One that in this day and age is less costly and more profitable than selling directly to stores.

You seem to have interpreted this as a print vs web thing and that was never the issue.

I'm curious, are American comic shops the only stores to sell comics?

Most major book stores sell comics, but typically not the independent or self published comics that you occasionally find in comic book stores.

.: isukun :.

Hguyver
I think part of the problem is American comics aside from the small independent comics that hardly get any publicity(if any at all) have a serious problem with branching out.

Take spider-man for example. I LOVE spider-man, my all time favorite super-hero. Problem: Amazing spider-man has been going on since the 1960's up to today. It's already at issue 500 something and has had hundreds of different writers and artists over the years that have constantly changed things up.

What new comic readers today would suddenly just pick up an issue They'd be too lost.

I think that's part of why Manga is so popular from most of my own experience is that every manga series I've read has been done by one person, who created their own story, characters and ended their story at their choosing instead of having someone pick up writing it after they've gotten tired of it and keeping the thing going on and on and on. Most mangas start and finish their stories and that leaves room open for new story ideas for those eager to find them.

American comic books aren't quite set up that way. I think we've made attempts but they just never took root. With die hard fans of fifty year old comics series who would have a serious fit if say superman was finally 'finished' theirs no way that american comic book publishers are simply going to 'wrap up' those long lasting 'flash ship' titles.

Long story, short, as long as were still pumping out issue 1293 of Superman and spider-man and all the rest, the industry is going to be choked out leaving no room for new and interesting ideas that'll never even get a chance to shine and be seen by more than just a handful of comic book readers.

very good point. And the manga that is made by multiple writers and keeps on branching out and goes on and on and on ALWAYS ends up sucking without any exception... and then it gets bought by american executives who think their 500 episodes means its successful and gets butchered in translation to be sold in the states...


Quite frankly I have been in a comic store only a few times, and have only bought two peices there.

1. I don't want a million magazines, I want it in book format, that means waiting for the whole set.
2. Web comics are the way to go, you read them, enjoy them, and then buy them in book format when they come out with it, this makes more money for the author as they cut out the middle man, and he has wider dissimation then the indie basket in 3 comic stores.
3. The whole point of comic stores is that bookstores wouldn't deign to carry their merchandise, so they came about, now bookstores do and they die back out.
4. Ordering the marvel or whatever you want through the internet is better then going to a store, always.

i only buy paperbacks, monthly stories that never finish isn't for me. i've had too many experiences with comics I like suddely just dropped. take that comic industry!

Skulldog
I get the feeling that many stores try to shun the casual buyer, which leads to becoming a niche market.

The few stores I've gone to back when I lived in Savannah, the second I stepped foot inside and wasn't jumping for the newest Spiderman, they rolled their eyes and went back to arguing over which villians would win in a fight.

That sounds like the comic box (sorry, I live in Savannah, so... )

But what could help comic stores is actually trying to get kids to read comics. Set up comics for kids to openly read (i.e. bone or something of the like). Also treat your customers with respect (something that sometimes rarely happens).

And get the stores to look good.

That's the bad thing about comic shops, some look like they're run out of a garage

duck
That's the bad thing about comic shops, some look like they're run out of a garage

Is that universal or something? It's like a law of nature...
It must be because most comic book sellers are enthusiasts, with zero taste in interior design, and likely not enough funds to afford it even if they had any. -comic shops just aren't that profitable, leading to a vicious circle.

I see a gap in the market! How about a well funded chain of stylish, mass-appeal comic shops? It'll piss off the fanatics and likely put all the ‘real’ comic shops out of business, but it could be the start of a renaissance...

Woot! Start-up! The Hot-Topic of comic shops ^_^

(we don’t have Hot Topic here, but I know people hate it and it’s a chain store, so it’s a good analogue)

Ok, half the inventory will of course be Manga, and all comics that have just been turned into movies will be promoted HUGELY, with their own sections in the shops... Big focus on MASS appeal, massmarklet and big sellers... The lesser known comics won't get much of a look-in, maybe just a little space reserved for them...

Does that soud evil enough?

We've got two comic stores here in Savannah. One The Comic Box, which actually has kinda a layout. Not spectacular, but not harmful to the eyes. Two Comics and More, this one, has a lot smaller room to work with, so there are long boxes on the ground and such.

Really, if they just improve the look, they could get more people into the stores. I don't mean make it a hottopic like store. But, if you get it organized, and get it so things aren't on the floor or what not, belive me, thing's work better.

ozoneocean

duck
That's the bad thing about comic shops, some look like they're run out of a garage

Is that universal or something? It's like a law of nature...
It must be because most comic book sellers are enthusiasts, with zero taste in interior design, and likely not enough funds to afford it even if they had any. -comic shops just aren't that profitable, leading to a vicious circle.

I see a gap in the market! How about a well funded chain of stylish, mass-appeal comic shops? It'll piss off the fanatics and likely put all the ‘real’ comic shops out of business, but it could be the start of a renaissance...

Woot! Start-up! The Hot-Topic of comic shops ^_^

(we don’t have Hot Topic here, but I know people hate it and it’s a chain store, so it’s a good analogue)

Ok, half the inventory will of course be Manga, and all comics that have just been turned into movies will be promoted HUGELY, with their own sections in the shops... Big focus on MASS appeal, massmarklet and big sellers... The lesser known comics won't get much of a look-in, maybe just a little space reserved for them...

Does that soud evil enough?

its not evil, its "sound business practices"

Ok, I'll be CEO. ^_^
My trendy comic empire will rise llike a collossus, devouring all lessor comic shops untill there is but ONE single outlet for comics. NO ONE will be able to ressist or stand against me.

...

It's a good idea really. It could possibly make quite a bit of money... Maybe I'm wrong though and the fantasy has gotten to my head. What do you think?

duck
We've got two comic stores here in Savannah. One The Comic Box, which actually has kinda a layout. Not spectacular, but not harmful to the eyes. Two Comics and More, this one, has a lot smaller room to work with, so there are long boxes on the ground and such.

Really, if they just improve the look, they could get more people into the stores. I don't mean make it a hottopic like store. But, if you get it organized, and get it so things aren't on the floor or what not, belive me, thing's work better.

I use to live there. Fellow SCADite by any chance?

I wish I could afford SCAD. I went to AASU. But I do dig SCAD's comicing classes. But rent comes first y'know.

ozoneocean
Ok, I'll be CEO. ^_^
My trendy comic empire will rise llike a collossus, devouring all lessor comic shops untill there is but ONE single outlet for comics. NO ONE will be able to ressist or stand against me.

...

It's a good idea really. It could possibly make quite a bit of money... Maybe I'm wrong though and the fantasy has gotten to my head. What do you think?

Heck, I'd support you. But only if you put in a wide variety of independent comics and graphic novels. People deserve to see what the small press has to offer.

~IJ

I've actually seen somethin like that when I visited Austin. There were a bunch of Slave Labor comics and such. So it's quite feasble.

duck
I've actually seen somethin like that when I visited Austin. There were a bunch of Slave Labor comics and such. So it's quite feasble.

That is because Austin is a seriously awesome city (so I hear).

~IJ