going away - Comic Discussion (Print & Web!)

The Relationship Between Creator and Comic
Darth Mongoose at 3:43PM, March 29, 2007
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I was just thinking about this, and thought it'd be interesting to discuss.
Basically, what I was thinking about is how you feel about a comic based on what you know about the creator. Does your perception of a comic change if you learn some new fact about the person who created it? An example would be if a comic you thought wasn't brilliant turned out to be done by a twelve year old kid. I would probably re-evaluate that comic based on the new information that it was drawn by somebody very young, and in my eyes, it would go from being just a 'meh' comic, to being a 'pretty impressive for somebody of that age' comic. I might try not to, so that I'm impartial, but I'd inescapably have my perceptions of that comic changed.
Another example is if you really like or hate the creator of the comic. For example, maybe you'd read a comic you'd normally think was terrible, if the person drawing it was one of your close friends. On the other side, maybe if your only experience of a comic's creator was a stupid forum argument, would that make you view that person's comic with more jaded eyes and notice the bad more than the good? There are a few books and comics I read while actually disliking the creator as a person (for a book example, I love Phillip Pullman's books, but I find him to come across as an arrogant jerk when I see or read interviews with him. On the other hand, I know some comic artists who I think are lovely people, but who I'd never be able to tell that I hate their comics!). I think it's often a good idea to have at least some readers who either don't particularly like you, or don't know you well, just so you can get feedback that isn't coloured by their reaction to things like your gender, race, age or personality.
I would say that the most admirable comic readers are people who can hate your guts, but still say 'but I think your comic is good', or who can really like you and still be uninhibited with their criticism. On the other hand, though, sometimes I feel that knowing about a creator could enhance the experience. 'real life' style comics like 'This Ego of Mine' where the heroine is the creator of the comic, it's hard to separate the creator of the comic from the comic itself, and so you will learn about her without going out of your way. I sometimes wonder if knowing that I like to drink tea a lot in real life makes the frequent appearance of tea in my comic funnier or more meaningful and relevant to the readers who know it.

What do you guys think? Do you like to know about the person who's making the comics you read, or do you prefer to read the comic without knowing anything? Does it colour your feelings for the comic if you discover a creator say...I dunno, votes for a political party you hate, or is an attractive member of the opposite gender, or is much younger than you? Do you feel that your image, persona, personality or other factors effects how readers react to your comic?
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:08PM
JillyFoo at 5:14PM, March 29, 2007
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I think the creator does have a effect on the reader.

For fun I love to read webcomics and guess what the creator is really like. Get into their heads so to speak. Finding out why they had a scenario go one way or why they draw in this style, it really makes it interesting.
So... knowing the person already really makes it fun because you can talk face to face with them and when reading the comic try to connect their personality to their comic.
When seeing in person is not possible I like interviews; you really get some insight into how comic people think about their work.

I think the creator's personality really does have an effect on the reader. I do have the tenancy to avoid comics created by overfilled egos, emos that think their work sucks when it obviously does not, creators that won't respond to any communication because they are too popular, and creators that troll forums.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:08PM
ozoneocean at 5:54PM, March 29, 2007
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Oh... it has a small effect on how I view a creation, but I find it very easy to separate it if I want to evaluate the work.

I do have more time for a comic if I know the creator and I know they're a nice person though. Nice people automatically get attention from me. :)

...It doesn't matter who they vote for, or any of the rest of it.
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
FoxmanZEO at 10:58PM, March 29, 2007
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I tend to tune out to everything when I'm the viewer/reader/listener, so no effect.
'Who must do the hard things?

He who can.'


-Confucius.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:30PM
LIZARD_B1TE at 6:01AM, March 30, 2007
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ozoneocean
I do have more time for a comic if I know the creator and I know they're a nice person though. Nice people automatically get attention from me. :)


...
.....
Hello, Ozone! How are you on this beautiful day?


Anyway, I really don't pay that much attention to the author. I pay a bit of attention, but not alot.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:36PM
Eviltwinpixie at 6:33AM, March 30, 2007
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If

1. I like a comic very much

2. I talk to the creator, or see blog posts/forum posts by them, and they seem like a genuinely nice person

I'll often feel very fondly towards both comic and creator. I think liking a person often does make me appreciate their comic more, and liking their comic makes me more receptive and interested in them as a person, but usually the two go together.

There is one comic (not on DD) which I enjoy but don't find the creator to be a very nice person. I still enjoy the comic, but I don't feel as attached to it as I would if I felt it was written by someone friendly.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:24PM
ozoneocean at 7:34AM, March 30, 2007
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I read PVP... Even though I think the creator can be a bit of a dork sometimes, with some really stupid views, his comic's ok. ^^

Squidi's AMD was brilliant, but even though he was an ok guy he could be quite emo and irascible at times. It didn't take away from the comic.

Hard from Sexy Losers could be an arsehole, but strangely that was rather endearing... Much like Marine from Penis.

Maybe the fact that someone does a good comic can actually help you look past whatever might be negative and like them ins spite of all that? Yes, I think it can.

I'm going to have a look at your comic Lizard. :)
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
rainingbells at 8:05AM, March 30, 2007
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ozoneocean
Hard from Sexy Losers could be an arsehole, but strangely that was rather endearing... Much like Marine from Penis.


Clay is actually a really nice guy. At least, outside of maybe two skirmishes with him in IRC some nine years ago, I've never had a problem with him. What dickish behavior I have seen from him came from what he went through to keep Sexy Losers up and running, the people he had to fight with just because of the content, and some of the behavior of the fan base.
last edited on July 14, 2011 3:00PM
ozoneocean at 8:32AM, March 30, 2007
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He does seem a lot nicer again since Sexy Losers stopped... :)
But the other side of his behaviour was actually pretty cool. It reminds me of Blackadder in some ways ^_^
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
Inkmonkey at 4:15PM, April 2, 2007
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I remember back when Sean "Squidi" Howard of "A Modest Destiny" fame used to hang out in the Buzzcomix forum (and, consequently, back when I did the same thing). Anyway, he was a dick. Part of it came from him getting picked on and harassed so much after the whole thing with Penny Arcade, but basically the guy was really mean and stuck up about how great his series was. From what I've been told, he has a right to brag about his writing skills and mastery of the combination of words and pictures (or whatever he does to describe himself), since most people seem to agree that the comic is very good, but after seeing him hype himself so much the end result was real let down.

There was another kid on Buzzcomix by the name of "Pockybot". Every other post he made included a hamfisted plug for his comic, occasionally bragging about how great it was. Looking back, he had a very cool style and an interesting, if disjointed, storytelling method. But after seeing so much plugging and begging for attention, etc., I just couldn't stand to look at it.


So, yeah, that's what'll really ruin a comic for me. Not just the creator being an ass, but if they remind you at every opportunity how great their comic is, it's going to make it that much harder to take it seriously.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
ozoneocean at 6:24PM, April 2, 2007
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Ha! Squidi could be a dick... But he was OK on his own forums. That Pockybot guy had a good comic, really fun and strange. Yeah... that's a funny thing though, going from people's behaviour in forums it can feel a bit weird to look at their comics anyway, for anyone, don't you find?

BTW-check our my comic, it's brilliant!

...I'm joking of course...
 
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:26PM
Kristen Gudsnuk at 7:21AM, April 3, 2007
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I automatically look at comics with more fondness if I feel like I know the author a little bit. For instance, with people who post regularly in the forums here... that warm community feeling I get (heh!) kind of creeps into their comics and I immediately like the comic more.
Unless someone says something mean to me (I'm SENSITIVEEEE!!! ;_;!!!!!!!) I like everyone, and unless someone's comic is incoherent and an eyesore, I like it! ^_^! It's fun seeing people of different skill levels improve!
And when I find out people's ages, it automatically changes my perception of them. For instance, I've always been kind of jealous of Theorah's awesomeness (her comic's called Am I Still Here) but then I found out she's 17 and I'm 19, so now I'm both jealous AND awestruck. O_O!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM
Kristen Gudsnuk at 7:22AM, April 3, 2007
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wow, it sounds like I just found out I'm 19. I knew all along...
..really.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM
subcultured at 7:54AM, April 3, 2007
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i checked out kristen's comic because she's so bubbly
J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM
usedbooks at 9:11AM, April 3, 2007
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I don't think someone's personality impacts my perception of their comic, but it can make me check out the comic (or hesitate) in the first place, because I want to see what their minds will produce.

Finding out people's ages/experience leaves me awestruck most of the time too. So many very talented people around here. (And I'm fumbling and inexperienced myself, so it brings some hope to see how long it takes others to "achieve greatness." )
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:36PM
Neilsama at 11:44AM, April 3, 2007
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ozoneocean
Ha! Squidi could be a dick... But he was OK on his own forums.
I more or less remember his antics of trying to stop everyone from "stealing his art" that he made easy to steal in the first place. He'd get upset with fans for doing what fans do. I will never say a bad thing about his work, but his attitude fucking sucked, and I think he would have saved himself a lot of headaches if he just calmed the fuck down.

He did a good comic, not enough to sustain my prolonged interest though, and I admit, part of my ability to remain interested in it was impared by the fact that he was a raving lunatic.

Inkmonkey
There was another kid on Buzzcomix by the name of "Pockybot". Every other post he made included a hamfisted plug for his comic, occasionally bragging about how great it was. Looking back, he had a very cool style and an interesting, if disjointed, storytelling method. But after seeing so much plugging and begging for attention, etc., I just couldn't stand to look at it.
Oh my god! I had to really think about that one. I remember that guy! Didn't he have a gaming comic that never made any sense? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Actually, he didn't really bother me. He was IMPLICITLY annoying. I tend to get aggitated at more explicit forms of annoyance. I sort of remember his back-patting and how astonishingly unfunny his comics were. ASTONISHINGLY! But at least he actually got me to go to his site every so often, so he must not have been on MY shit list.

I guess I don't mind self-enthusiasm. I don't remember how he was with taking ciriticism though. If he expected to be showered with praises, then I can understand.

That was generally my pet peeve. If someone didn't understand that the point of a criticism is to help someone get better, then I would tend to lose interest more quickly in whatever they were doing. I hate people who are defensive about criticism, because it's not intended to be mean.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:10PM
Eunice P at 5:48AM, April 4, 2007
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I guess the attitude of an artist really matters. I'm generally attracted to artists who have nice attitude. I don't mind if the artist is emo, but as long as the artist don't start being a jerk towards everyone, I will still come and read his comics.

And I respect artists who keep low profile of themselves and constantly strive hard to improve despite achieving certain popularity for their comics.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:23PM
Kristen Gudsnuk at 6:26AM, April 4, 2007
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subcultured
i checked out kristen's comic because she's so bubbly


yaaayyy!!!! ^_^!!!!
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:22PM
mlai at 5:00AM, April 10, 2007
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I think the best thing a webcomic artist can do (in regards to readers' receptivity to his comics) is to:

1. Keep a low personal profile.
2. Remain humble and quiet.

If you absolutely must jump into the forum because you love discussions, then use a different name.

Not only will your comic suffer if you're obnoxious, but also if you talk too much about everything that comes up, you suffer from over-exposure. Your comics lose that mystique if ppl get to know you. They will see you when they read your comic, and that's not good no matter what. It hurts suspension of disbelief.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
Neilsama at 5:46AM, April 10, 2007
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mlai
1. Keep a low personal profile.
2. Remain humble and quiet.

If you absolutely must jump into the forum because you love discussions, then use a different name.

Not only will your comic suffer if you're obnoxious, but also if you talk too much about everything that comes up, you suffer from over-exposure. Your comics lose that mystique if ppl get to know you. They will see you when they read your comic, and that's not good no matter what. It hurts suspension of disbelief.
That's why I frequently post under my alias: Marine.



Kidding!
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:10PM
Mark at 5:51AM, April 10, 2007
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Well, there was an incident, shortly after I started R-I, where I traded a few E-mails with Ramon Perez of Butternut Squash, asking for tips and just being friendly in general. After a couple of responses, he stopped replying. I sent him a couple more E-mails, and made a few comments on his art blog, but without response.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the guy, I'm still convinced he's a nice fellow. But the whole fiasco made me view him in a slightly negative light.

Though my feelings towards Butternut Squash [butternutsquash.net] stay the same. I still think it's a friggin awesome webcomic and still enjoy it to bits.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:54PM
j giar at 8:40AM, April 10, 2007
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Since I'm completely new here and just started my comic a couple months ago it's kinda rude for me to jump in like this and..I know absolutely none of folks you guys have mentioned.. But I've found that during the last couple of years, as I've gotten back into the comics industry that pretty much the way my dad brought me up still remains true. It'll sound corny and old school but so far it's how I've lived my life and, for the most part, has gotten me along pretty good. You treat people the way you want to be treated, you respect those that have more experience as long as they treat you with respect. It's the only way you'll learn a little faster. And if your capable you help those that need your help. Pretty plain...pretty simple. I steer clear of those people and their projects, that treat people like crap. No excuse for bein' rude, other than bad manners...You can give me the slickest and most polished comic project and if the person comes across as an ass, the only way I can show my disatisfaction is to not buy or read their story. I don't care if 50,000 people buy the book purely for the story. An ass is an ass not matter how you dress it up! Sorry for buttin' in. J Giar

"Sometimes to get to the bottom of something, you have to kill your way to the top."
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
Darth Mongoose at 9:42AM, April 10, 2007
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I disagree with the whole 'keep a low profile' thing. Before I posted on here, next to nobody read my comic. It was rare for me to get a single comment on a page. They just didn't know it existed. When I started leaving comments on other people's comics, posting on the forums, and being involved with stuff like comics remix, my readership shot up. I'm not a fan of excessive plugging, especially the kind of plug where they go really over the top with how wonderful their comic is, and I'm aware that I'm running a risk because I could put people off my comic before they read it if they don't like my personality. Despite that though, I'd rather have it this way than how it was before, when I had no readers!
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:08PM
j giar at 10:43AM, April 10, 2007
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Darth Mongoose
I disagree with the whole 'keep a low profile' thing. Before I posted on here, next to nobody read my comic. It was rare for me to get a single comment on a page. They just didn't know it existed. When I started leaving comments on other people's comics, posting on the forums, and being involved with stuff like comics remix, my readership shot up. I'm not a fan of excessive plugging, especially the kind of plug where they go really over the top with how wonderful their comic is, and I'm aware that I'm running a risk because I could put people off my comic before they read it if they don't like my personality. Despite that though, I'd rather have it this way than how it was before, when I had no readers!


I agree 100%, get yourself out there and talk to people. I won't go out of my way to leave comments unless I genuinely like the comic...but I've run across several that I love and I'm finding new ones all the time...I've only been at this a month and a half and have yet to run into anyone acting like a schmuck! And I myself, been pretty low profile strictly because I've got so much going on.

"Sometimes to get to the bottom of something, you have to kill your way to the top."
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
junoblairb at 2:14PM, April 11, 2007
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Wow - I am for sure now that Squidi and Pockybot will forever remain immortalized because of the adventures on BuzzComix.

I'm pretty harsh I think - I will not read a comic if the creators are asshats. I just can't. Especially to their readers. I won't tolerate that. Other comics, not so much but I really can't stand that perverse sense of competition some people have. We're storytellers not stockholders, geez. I'm sorry but if you lack humility, I won't read you. I don't allow those kind of people in my life honestly much less anywhere else.

I love to know what's going on in my comic list's lives. But I'm also a creator. I can sympathize more than maybe the average reader. I get when things just don't jive. Art is a passion and I love to know where everyone's comes from.

Keeping a low profile? Only if you're trying to be a dick. I've never kept things quiet that I know of and I don't think that's ever really hurt me. But I try my best to be nice and helpful because afterall, that's what I would like in return. What goes around comes around. ^_^
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:11PM
mlai at 6:25AM, April 12, 2007
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Fact is if you're vocal and your work is popular, sooner or later you're going to get mired in politics or the usual bullshit. But if you're quiet and don't get involved, and just work on your comics, ppl can't find a handle on you.

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:05PM
junoblairb at 8:20AM, April 12, 2007
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mlai
Fact is if you're vocal and your work is popular, sooner or later you're going to get mired in politics or the usual bullshit. But if you're quiet and don't get involved, and just work on your comics, ppl can't find a handle on you.


This is incredibly true. Mlai here has a point. ^_^
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:11PM
j giar at 9:36AM, April 12, 2007
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By low profile I meant I'll speak up only when I have someting to say or that I'm passionate about. I've got no time for the pissin' and moanin' I've seen on other forums...No, I'm not that important..just busy. My comic, other art projects I'm involved in, fulltime job and a family...(Had to re-read that to make sure I'm not comin' across as a dick)... :)
I followed a couple of folks over from Digital Webbing. They spoke pretty highly of the work on here and the people. So far they're right. The other artists and readers have been great. And the mods have been fantastic to work with as far as answering questions....So I'm glad I finally made it over here...And yes "mlai" does have a very good point...which is why I'm tryin' to eek myself in little by little in your forums.

"Sometimes to get to the bottom of something, you have to kill your way to the top."
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:05PM
No_Parking at 10:18AM, April 14, 2007
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I've volunteered to work at the I-Con science fiction convention almost since the start, and I've met a whole lot of writers, artists and actors. There have been times where I really like someones work and when I finally got to meet them they turned out to be total #@!%$. After that I found my enjoyment of their works had diminished. I had trouble separating the body of work from the person.

Back in November someone wrote me and said they were trying to get my comic on wikipedia because they thought that it was a good comic from a female web comic artist. I wrote them back and told them thank you, but I'm not a woman (maybe she thought that because I alwayed signed my comic J. Sheehan, which is gender neutral). I never heard from her again, but I think she had an image in mind of who I was and when I shattered that she looked at my comic differently, just as I had with the people I met at the conventions (I never did get in wikipedia, but that's alright).

Still, I'm a little ashamed that I let the person colour what I think of the work, since the work should speak for itself regardless of how much of a jerk the creator is.

J.

last edited on July 14, 2011 2:19PM
subcultured at 11:16AM, April 14, 2007
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I think bieng friendly with readers help to solidify reader comments...if te author is distant, there might be readers, but they don't comment as much because they're not sure if the author is even gonna pay attention to them.

J
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:02PM

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