Recently, I've been having some issues with my art teacher that have now escalated into full-fledged harrassment. She took me aside during class one day and told I was "too opinionated" and that I am "no longer allowed to speak my opinion in class." Now, I have never liked this teacher because she've never been supportive of my art style and disapproved of the fact that I drew comics a lot. She pretty much told me my art style was not a style and during her little tirade told me my art could "vastly improve to deserve any better grade" for what I've been getting. I honestly don't mind that she's been giving me lower grades because I've already been accepted into my college of choice, so whatever.

However, she made one comment about my self portrait that made me livid upon reading it. The self-portrait project we had to do was "express how you feel on the inside," pretty self-explanitory. I have always felt very stifled by my high school, and so I did a piece that expressed that. In doing so, I suppose she must have thought I was attacking her personally and on the back of these "artist's statements" we have to write about each piece, she wrote, "Your grade is not based on your concept or feelings, it is based on how well you meet the criteria." I felt that this was saying art was no longer about expressing yourself, but about how well you can meet someone else's standards. Now, I know that being a high school art teacher she needs SOME way to assess the art projects and have some set way of grading it, but I still found that comment to be the antithesis of what I had thought art was.

So, as to end my little story, I was just wondering what all of you guys thought about what art "is." What is your definition of art? Is it about displaying your inner thoughts, feelings, emotions, or is it about meeting someone else's standards? Is it about what other people think of it, or is it about the fact that you have something to say, and you feel that is the best way to say it?

Needless to say, I will be dropping this Advanced Placement art class at semester. I hear the school's jazz band needs a drummer.

art is what you make it.

My art teacher was very cool. She's the one who lent me her The Dark Knight Returns. Now that I think back on it, I can't believe she lent some kid her graphic novel.

All we did in our art classes was draw shapes and paint still-lifes, I swear to god. That's probably what brought on my hate of still-lifes actually...particularly ones of fruit and flowers.

My art teachers were nothing impressive, just very indifferent about it all. Though I did tend to get my art done early and had free time to sketch. ;)

Art is everywhere, there are lots of different types. I hate people who only limit themselves to a few things and ESPECIALLY ones that completely disregard some styles, maybe because of a few bad experiences with them. I've read many stories on the internet about art teachers that are very anti-anime or anti-comic. Makes me really want to go to some sort of special art classes or college. =/ I'm open to different things...but I still see anime and comics as art and I'll draw what I fucking want to, thanks.


Though if there is one sort of art I don't like, it's the type where someone scribbles a line and calls it "life and death". Looks more like "the death of talent" to me.

You are cheating a bit here, Mazoo, because you are asking about the meaning of art rather than the meaning of an art course. Your problem problem was the art course as run by this one teacher, not art itself.

From both the school's and the teacher's perspective her/his job was to turn out a student at the end of the semester that was at least theoretically more knowledgeable and more capable than was true at the beginning of the school year. The teacher must somehow cope with and supervise and encourage a certain number of students per class and without establishing a certain degree of discipline and mandating nearly rigid attention to covering and completing required curriculum the teacher and the class itself is a manifest failure. Oh yes, advanced placement courses generally run on a set of core requirements that are not under the instructor's control. She must push the curriculum and the implementation of the same according to the dictates of others in order for the school to retain its advance placement ranking for that course.

Mazoo
"Your grade is not based on your concept or feelings, it is based on how well you meet the criteria." I felt that this was saying art was no longer about expressing yourself, but about how well you can meet someone else's standards.

Her job actually is to render you knowledgeable in the requirements of the course. As a student your job is to obey within reason and do your best to fulfill the course requirements. Neither she nor you have to like each other nor even like those course requirements. Both of you simply have to obey.

She was, therefore precisely correct in her admonition even if she was simply wrong in her interpretation of your motivation in this instance. People can get things wrong. It happens every day. I may be wrong about all of the above and about all of the material to follow on this subject.

So that's the student and the art teacher and the course and its and the school system's requirements.

Now as for art itself.

Someone
I still found that comment to be the antithesis of what I had thought art was.

You would be absolutely correct; that is, you would have been correct if she were discussing the nature of art itself rather than her perception of your attitude regarding both the assignment and your role as her student in this course. As this is not the case, your observation in this instance is flawed.

Someone
I was just wondering what all of you guys thought about what art "is." What is your definition of art? Is it about displaying your inner thoughts, feelings, emotions, or is it about meeting someone else's standards? Is it about what other people think of it, or is it about the fact that you have something to say, and you feel that is the best way to say it?

Unless you are a professional artist working for an employer or a client then certainly art is about self-expression or anything else that you want it to be about. Unfortunately both professional artists and art students tend to have to concern themselves with meeting someone else's standards. That's just the way these things go.

Amateur artists have the greatest freedom in that they can express whatever they feel through their art. Of course they also have the freedom to starve unless they can earn a living by other means.

Now comes the advice segment. I base this on my age and on my profession and on my art path itself .

As an artist you are entirely correct that art is about self everything; that is, art is about self expression and self-interest, self motivation and the self itself as revealed in bits and pieces to a world that may or may not give a damn about you or your self expression. Welcome to the world of art.

As a student, however, you would benefit from a cynical attitude adjustment. Learn to play the role of a good student. If the teacher says something utterly insane, such as Pablo Picasso was a decent artist and a sincere man, instead of laughing and giving the memory of the great con man and the living teacher the figurative or literal middle finger, just smile weakly, nod your head, and think about cake. Ummmm . . . cake!

As a student practice the high fine old art of faking it 'til you make it. Although you will feel dirty for having done so, for your grade point average will thank you for the subterfuge.

Even for artists, life itself is one big compromise after another, and it's probably best in the long run to get practice in on executing this survival-based art form as soon as possible. Be an artist before or after classes. During classes be a student.

Charley's right Maz. A lot of us have been there... :)

In art school and most art courses, you're usually best of just letting go and going with the flow for a while. Don't lose your own style or repress your instincts and creativity though!!!! NO! Rather, adapt yourself to the situation a little more. Try new styles, loosen up your own, take suggestions on board, but maintain the rage and enthusiasm for your own stuff outside of class if you can't fully express it in class.

If you pursue art in tertiary education, it really helps to start off there with a wide portfolio and a willingness to be open and pursue different things: the more things you try helps you in the long run too. But as you advance through that, you'll find you'll have a LOT more freedom to do your own thing by the later years of it.

My art teachers does push me alot, and gets on my nerves to the point I would just love to stab her with a paint brush, but I know why she pushes me so hard.
She just wants to me to meet my full goal of becoming a artist. While everyone else in class dosen't care, and just slap something together and call it art, I put weeks of effort into my art pieces.
So the pain is worth the gain.

But YOUR art teacher needs to have a very large paint brush shoved up her ass.
Thank you.

I suppose you all are right, but that doesn't affect the fact that I will be dropping the course. As I had said, I know she has a curriculum to follow and output student who are "more knowledgeable" than they were at the beginning of class, but I am sticking true to my beliefs that she is doing something wrong. Despite any school's academic requirements, verbal abuse and harrassment are still wrong. However, I did not give you the whole story, nor did I give you her side of the story, so I can't expect to you to exactly sympathize with my situation. Besides, that's not what I was asking, as CharleyHorse pointed out.

It is in my own beliefs that a teacher should cultivate a student's natural talent, as well as try to draw them into sampling a myriad of different styles, interests or what-have-you. An art teacher should never tell a student that what they produce isn't art, especially in an AP class. An art teacher should also never tell a student that their art needs to "vastly improve" as a comparison to other students in the class. Everyone can improve in their own right, and an art class should not be about pitting students against one another. I'm sure that she can be very knowledgeable about specific techniques and materials in art, but the fact that this advice is coming from her is probably why I have a problem taking it; I have no respect for her, thus I can't respect anything she tells me. I do know, OZ, that having a background in a large amount of art styles and subjects is very beneficial to pursuing your own objectives as an artist. This I know from experience, and since I am pursuing an Art major in college, I'm hoping that the professors there will be at least somewhat more competent than her, and thus more approachable as a mentor and coach rather than an opposing force to go against. However, I am a realist and I know that I will not get along with all professors I have. That doesn't mean we won't at least have enough respect for one another to agree to disagree on things. Just because art is taught in a school with curriculum and grade requirements does not mean the basic meaning of the subject should be lost. Then it's not really teaching art, is it?

I thank you all for your advice, but I'm not going to change my attitude or art style to get a better grade. It may be a flaw of public school systems, or a flaw of my personality of being stubborn, but I refuse to stifle and specific art style of mine just to satisfy grade requirements. I want to improve and manipulate my art style, not necessarily change it entirely. If no one ever pushed the border and went against the norm, well, then I believe there would be no "greats" in the world, not that I am grouping myself within the "great" category, but I'm hoping you get my point. I do appreciate everyone who responded, even if I disagree with some of your points.

P.S. Happy Holidays everyone!

Merry Christmas Mazza! ^_^

You bring up some great points in your reply Mazoo.

I did want to second OzoneOcean's reply to you as he covered all the vital points as well. We all have different tolerance levels and snapping points, but you definitely seem to know yourself well, and this means you can monitor your own attitude as you sometimes bump heads with an instructor. This is great.

I must say though Mazoo...if you think its going to get easier in college with those professors and teachers, you are wrong. They will be more stringent and will oppose you most of the time. Most Art Professors are professional artists and have so much experience in various art fields and know what they are talking about and will be very specific and much harsher in there critique...and it won't stop there because your work will be critiqued by the other students as well. But that's the thing about art. It will be critiqued and you will need to be able to accept the good with the bad. You might even through up your hands and say screw it.

But as to pushing and fighting the boundaries...school may not be the place for that.
You really reconsider being open to what the teacher is trying to communicate whether in this class or future classes, even if it goes against what you feel it should be. I studied art in college and I butt heads many times over and appreciated being open to what the teacher had said even though it went against what I initial had felt was right.

To answer the question about what I think art is: Communication.
I think good art is art that communicates what the artist intended and what is being communicated is worth hearing. Subjective of course.

I saw some of your art. In my honest opinion, its NOT bad nor is it something that would make me go 'WOW'. In other words, you know how to draw but its not at a top level.

As for learning it, face it. we all gotta start somewhere. Your teacher was being an asshole. Ignore her and dont take it personally.

As for my art classes, in highschool, being a late starter (started at age 18) got me sorta laughed at. I was in GRADE 12 ART. Everyone else was doing good pictures while mine looked like it was done by a grade 8 or something. lol! Good thing my art teacher was nice and gave me a "70" at the end for my effort. I just showed her I was serious about it... that after class, sometimes she would sit down with me and teach me basic stuff.

I took it as a challenge to improve to where I'm at now (yep I still remember 2004 when I got drunkduck's 'most improved' award). As to where I am now, I can say the same thing about myself. I KNOW what I'm doing but I'm not at the 'uber-pro' level. There's at least 50 artists I saw here with a skill level that is a few notches above mine.

Just take it as a challenge. Learn it step by step. The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

Good luck with your natural progress.

Your teacher sounds terrible. Art is not about what anyone else thinks but about what the artist feels. I've been told that drawing "comics" isn't art and it pissed me off. NO one has the right to tell you or anyone what their art is or isn't.
There was this one class I had that I was fine with but after a while she started telling people: "You're not allowed to draw in a cartoon-ish style" which I loved the teacher but....D: you can't tell people that can't draw in their style. If the art class was ABOUT a specific type of art and you didn't to try something different I could understand...in this class we had an assignment where we had a piece of paper with a door in it and we had to draw what was behind the paper and it could be WHATEVER we wanted. If a teacher told me: "You can't draw cartoon-ish with this" I wouldn't stand for that.
Your teacher sounds terrible, I suggest you report her. That's just not right.