CharleyHorse
I also love the fantasy that anyone impoverished can waltz right into some help organization and be fed and clothed and receive free medical care.

Don't even get me started!! While Chrysler was being bailed out for umpteenth time for making crappy cars on purpose, I suffered pneumonia and was in the hospital for 2 months nearly dying. When I was sent home, I had to go to the Red Cross to get free bandages to dress my wounds. While I was in the hospital the kind folks at the bank foreclosed on my home, and the government told me me I wasn't poor enough for medical assistance or food stamps, even though I still had tubes sticking out of my body still draining the abcess and a note from my doctor saying I was going to be bed ridden for at least a month after my release.

The case worker said she was unmoved by the loss of my only financial asset, my home. Most people don't have a home I was told. I guess I was lucky to have touched one for a while.

But hey at least I wasn't dead right? At least the dumpster at Safeway had some good partially unspoiled treats. At least the busses and subways are heated!!(and no I'm not exxagerating)

Woo hoo lucky me, thank god I don't have a dirt floor.

That's the funny thing. Assistance was supposed to keep people from living on the street, but in many cases, you have to be living in the street to get any assistance.

Its probably the most uneconomical way of looking at things ever.

TnTComic

imshard
Yet its not like the rich sit around thinking up new ways to make them stay poor.

Maybe not, but they certainly fight tooth and nail to avoid paying taxes. Take the estate tax, for example. Little Johnny Silverspoon has never lifted a finger in his life, and stands to inherit such a sum as to remain with un-lifted finger for the rest of his life. But oh, how he will fight to avoid paying taxes on that inheritance. And what about tax shelters? Corporations thrive on the business they acquire by operating in the country, but put a P.O. box in Bermuda and call it their headquarters to avoid paying taxes. It seems that once you make a certain amount of money you think taxes are beneath you.

I'm a firm believer in the death tax, as long as it has restrictions. I've worked extremely hard to escape poverty. Now that I have I'd like that hard work to live on if only so my kids won't have to endure what I did. Certainly its an ugly thought to think my house and belongings could be sold off and have hardships befall my family.
Because I'm not rich and anything I accomplished and the good I did would disappear. If the geniuses in washington successfully connive to abolish inheritance we'll have a nation of victims. Then everybody could be equal in their misery as the fatcats in politics rolled in our money even more than they do now. Enormous piles of riches could easily stand to be divided but thats a slippery slope to traverse.
A person has a right to their estate and to pass it on as they see fit.

Tax evasion however is a crime no matter what form it takes. Death and taxes have been guaranteed since before the dawn of history. Humanity seems dedicated to avoiding them both. With varying degrees of success. So I support the national flat sales tax movement and the abolishment of income tax. That way the rich and the corporations have no deductions or tax shelters and you and I on the common level get to keep our paychecks. We would see no real difference from the state sales taxes we already pay (for the states that have them) and little johnny silverspoon would need to find a job if he wants to stay rich. As well it wouldn't pay for companies to be incorporated anymore or locate themselves outside the US.

I've heard lots of debate on national sales and tax it has its own downsides, but I've heard convincing arguments on how it can be effectively and fairly executed.

bobhhh

Eat The Rich
There's only one thing that they are good for
Eat The Rich
Take one bite now - come back for more
Eat The Rich
I gotta get this off my chest
Eat The Rich
Take one bite now - spit out the rest

Well add poetry to the list of things you suk at.

It's the chorus from a song by Motorhead. Any lyrical failure is on their part, not mine.

Who said Motorhead sucks?!!!

TnTComic
Who said Motorhead sucks?!!!

bobhh did

Motorhead? You guys are a lot older than I thought!

So, when you boil it all down, realists are pessimists and those rose-colored glasses of the "Praise for the status quo" optimists show things as they SHOULD be. So if you have ever had to dumpster dive in order to feed yourself, be grateful that you had a dumpster conveniently provided by your lords and masters.

Oh wait a minute, in some cities in the United States, desperate people are now being jailed if caught dumpster diving, because -- after all -- they are misusing private property and causing an unsightly appearance and the ILLUSION that people in said cities could be so desperate when, after all, there is plenty to be had by one and all.

The problem with most leaders of a country is that they mostly came from the upper class. The rich. Born rich. Born with a silver spoon. Everything is provided to them. That is why they take things for granted and cannot comprehend the possibility of being dirt poor.

In my case, family instability almost made me a homeless man if I acted in a stupid manner (the teenager with no job running away from home!!!).

It is rare to see a leader who rose from the ranks of the poor. And those types of people tend to get the most respect and manage to be voted by the majority of the masses.

A leader who has came from the poor (or was under the looming threat of becoming one of the 'poor' due to a threat of a layoff or family instability) is more likely to understand the plight of the starving masses. They are more likely to understand what its like to be alone and be abandoned.

Though I'm not trying to point a finger at the rich and call them all a bunch of pigs. There are exceptions as always.

I've personally known a guy who was the son of a CEO in the Philippines who has multiple houses and cars. However he is more focused on helping the poor of the country. As a student council president, he was able to convince the teachers to abolish the prom for that year and replace it with an outreach program where everyone will build houses for the poor. Because a prom is supposedly 'frivolous' and 'does not show the teachings of Jesus Christ' (Catholic run school). He got alot of shit from the other rich kids but he didnt care.

I havent heard from him though but one day I wont be surprised if I go to the Philippines and see him as a politician who is loved by the masses.

Just my 2 cents.

kyupol
I've personally known a guy who was the son of a CEO in the Philippines who has multiple houses and cars. However he is more focused on helping the poor of the country. As a student council president, he was able to convince the teachers to abolish the prom for that year and replace it with an outreach program where everyone will build houses for the poor. Because a prom is supposedly 'frivolous' and 'does not show the teachings of Jesus Christ' (Catholic run school). He got alot of shit from the other rich kids but he didnt care.

I havent heard from him though but one day I wont be surprised if I go to the Philippines and see him as a politician who is loved by the masses.

Just my 2 cents.

I think that's why Catholics in the Phils don't bug me so much. Some of them actually practice what they preach.

Mind you, I know a priest who had an affair with a nun...but their hearts where in the right place.

TnTComic
Who said Motorhead sucks?!!!

Don't get me started on motorhead, thats a whole seperate thread.

And bob doesn't bring me flowers, anymore.

bobhhh
I suffered pneumonia and was in the hospital for 2 months nearly dying. While I was in the hospital the kind folks at the bank foreclosed on my home

Not to call Bullshit on you, but I'm involved in the home foreclosure industry and it takes longer than two months for the process to happen. You have to skip payments for at least two months before they even begin the process, which can take up to two months more depending on the State the home is in and the home State of the bank that holds the loan. Even then if you talk with the bank they will do their best to keep some payments flowing in instead of taking a home onto their books, they are in the business of money, not real estate.

Banks really don't do all that well when they foreclose on a home. They have to get an agent to list it, get the place cleaned up and any repairs made unless they want to sell it as is to a flipper. But then they will lose money on the deal. Any way you look at it, foreclosure is a last ditch effort for them, not the first thing on their minds. Even with the bank talking foreclosure you can find a "white knight" to buy you out of the home to put cash in your pocket and the foreclosure off your credit report.

You had to have been behind before you hit the hospital and you had to be totally incommunicado with them for it to happen that fast. Of course, judging by your winning personality here you probably pissed the banker off by being rude which likely made them not want to work with you. You probably deserved to have that house taken out from under you. Don't go blaming the bank that made the mistake of loaning you the money for a home you obviously couldn't manage to keep.

mapaghimagsik
Motorhead? You guys are a lot older than I thought!

Well, I first appeared in Superman Volume 1, Issue #30 in September, 1944.

I've been kicking around for a little while.

Mister Mxyzptlk

bobhhh
I suffered pneumonia and was in the hospital for 2 months nearly dying. While I was in the hospital the kind folks at the bank foreclosed on my home

Not to call Bullshit on you, but I'm involved in the home foreclosure industry
and it takes longer than two months for the process to happen.

More reason for me to despise you.

I got the first notice during the end of my stay, and i couldn't work for a couple of mothes after returning home, so I actually didn't get foreclosed on while in the hospital, but shortly after. What did happen was during my stay was being refused any deferments considering my condition.

bobhhh

Mister Mxyzptlk

bobhhh
I suffered pneumonia and was in the hospital for 2 months nearly dying. While I was in the hospital the kind folks at the bank foreclosed on my home

Not to call Bullshit on you, but I'm involved in the home foreclosure industry
and it takes longer than two months for the process to happen.

More reason for me to despise you.

I got the first notice during the end of my stay, and i couldn't work for a couple of mothes after returning home, so I actually didn't get foreclosed on while in the hospital, but shortly after. What did happen was during my stay was being refused any deferments considering my condition.

So we're talking about a situation where the local economy was reeling, you were unable to pay for your house, and you expected a company to cut you special exception out of a sea of other hard-knocks cases? I sympathize with you on that story bobhhh I really do. I hate to sound like a cold SOB but companies don't make profits by turning their profit margins into charity cases. I'd love to send a new computer out to every customer coming onto my phone but it ain't going to happen. If I did my employer wouldn't be able afford my paycheck.

ompanies don't make profits by turning their profit margins into charity cases.

Profits are only short term. But the collective anger of the masses is long term.

You dont want a large group of pissed off masses. :)

imshard

bobhhh

Mister Mxyzptlk

bobhhh
I suffered pneumonia and was in the hospital for 2 months nearly dying. While I was in the hospital the kind folks at the bank foreclosed on my home

Not to call Bullshit on you, but I'm involved in the home foreclosure industry
and it takes longer than two months for the process to happen.

More reason for me to despise you.

I got the first notice during the end of my stay, and i couldn't work for a couple of mothes after returning home, so I actually didn't get foreclosed on while in the hospital, but shortly after. What did happen was during my stay was being refused any deferments considering my condition.

So we're talking about a situation where the local economy was reeling, you were unable to pay for your house, and you expected a company to cut you special exception out of a sea of other hard-knocks cases? I sympathize with you on that story bobhhh I really do. I hate to sound like a cold SOB but companies don't make profits by turning their profit margins into charity cases. I'd love to send a new computer out to every customer coming onto my phone but it ain't going to happen. If I did my employer wouldn't be able afford my paycheck.

Hey I didn't ask for anybody to pay for my house, I asked for a defferemnet until i was able to work again. Two different things.

But you're right, companies don't care about their customers, only profits. That's why Michael Moore is right when he says corporations have no business in the health care business. And although we have a small social safety net, its pretty pathetic in its inability to help a majority of the people who need it. It seems to me if we can piss away billions of dollars overseas, we can afford to help out decent citizens at home who are dealing with tough times, after all helping a US citizen get back on his feet makes him a tax payer, even if the government doesn't really care about doing the decent thing, they can justify on more greed based grounds!

And before anybody starts complaining about welfare fraud, remeber, we count welfare in millions of dollars, while budget defecits and war exploits are counted in billions and trillions.

bobhhh
More reason for me to despise you.

Why? I perform a vital service. People who turn their homes into ATMs and then stop paying the mortgage deserve to lose them. No one held a gun to their heads and made them get into a home they couldn't afford. No one made them refinance and "take out their equity". No one forced them into an ARM which adjusted on them. They made stupid decisions and suffered the consequences of those stupid decisions.

If you buy a house with less that 20% down you are asking for trouble. If you believe a slick talking mortgage broker it's your own damn fault. There are no victims here, just dumb people who didn't learn enough math and economics to know better.

bobhhh
I got the first notice during the end of my stay, and i couldn't work for a couple of mothes after returning home, so I actually didn't get foreclosed on while in the hospital, but shortly after.

Ah, something closer to truth. Shame is, it makes you look like less of a victim. Didn't you have any savings? Nothing set aside for an emergency? No "Aflac" like insurance policy just in case? How much equity did you have in the first place? Did you buy it with a no-down loan?

bobhhh
What did happen was during my stay was being refused any deferments considering my condition.

Again, I doubt they tossed you aside and greedily stole your home the first chance they got. Banks don't want homes on the books. They want payments coming in and will do a lot to keep that happening. Come on, how many times before had you fallen behind? How man times had you been late? How much down did you put on it and how many years had you been paying?

The truth shall set you free.

kyupol
You dont want a large group of pissed off masses.

Yes, we should always cater to the ignorant masses so they don't rise up and kill the people with a clue. Great way to set public policy...

kyupol
Companies don't make profits by turning their profit margins into charity cases.

Profits are only short term. But the collective anger of the masses is long term.

You dont want a large group of pissed off masses. :)

Touche` Though short-term profits are followed by more short-term profits and again and again and so forth. Profit making policy can't be changed anymore than a man can stop eating just to feed somebody else.

bobhhh
Hey I didn't ask for anybody to pay for my house, I asked for a defferemnet until i was able to work again. Two different things.

But you're right, companies don't care about their customers, only profits. That's why Michael Moore is right when he says corporations have no business in the health care business. And although we have a small social safety net, its pretty pathetic in its inability to help a majority of the people who need it. It seems to me if we can piss away billions of dollars overseas, we can afford to help out decent citizens at home who are dealing with tough times, after all helping a US citizen get back on his feet makes him a tax payer, even if the government doesn't really care about doing the decent thing, they can justify on more greed based grounds!

And before anybody starts complaining about welfare fraud, remeber, we count welfare in millions of dollars, while budget defecits and war exploits are counted in billions and trillions.

None of us are familiar enough with the details of your situation to argue.
Yet I disagree that companies care nothing about their customers. Companies are not stupid. They know that the health and happiness of their customers is central to their profit-earning potential. I work for a Fortune 500 company in their customer relations area. I know exactly how much value they put on keeping the customer happy and thinking positively about the company. Health-care is that messy other issue. My mother was a nurse and so are two of my sisters. I'm helping put one of my nephews through med-school. I know all-about the fuxored health system.

People think they are entitled to be taken care of, but they never realize it is a service and a profession just like anything else. You go to the hospital and the first thing everybody there has to do is think about how you might end up suing them. Doctor's have enormous student loans that they spend at least half of their working lives paying off despite being amongst the highest paid individuals. Nurses, CMAs, med-techs, paramedics, and others get paid a pittance and bear the brunt of some of the hardest and ugliest work in the world.
Lets not forget that medical supplies and equipment never have and never will be cheap and needs to be constantly replaced. And you wonder why it costs so much to get your temperature taken? Oh yeah lets not forget that the typical primary care physician carries at least three frivolous lawsuits and two malpractice case at any given time. shut the hell up until you know what you're talking about. Michael more didn't show you jack except for what was convenient to his political agenda.

Mister Mxyzptlk

bobhhh
More reason for me to despise you.

Why? I perform a vital service. People who turn their homes into ATMs and then stop paying the mortgage deserve to lose them. No one held a gun to their heads and made them get into a home they couldn't afford. No one made them refinance and "take out their equity". No one forced them into an ARM which adjusted on them. They made stupid decisions and suffered the consequences of those stupid decisions.

If you buy a house with less that 20% down you are asking for trouble. If you believe a slick talking mortgage broker it's your own damn fault. There are no victims here, just dumb people who didn't learn enough math and economics to know better.

bobhhh
I got the first notice during the end of my stay, and i couldn't work for a couple of mothes after returning home, so I actually didn't get foreclosed on while in the hospital, but shortly after.

Ah, something closer to truth. Shame is, it makes you look like less of a victim. Didn't you have any savings? Nothing set aside for an emergency? No "Aflac" like insurance policy just in case? How much equity did you have in the first place? Did you buy it with a no-down loan?

bobhhh
What did happen was during my stay was being refused any deferments considering my condition.

Again, I doubt they tossed you aside and greedily stole your home the first chance they got. Banks don't want homes on the books. They want payments coming in and will do a lot to keep that happening. Come on, how many times before had you fallen behind? How man times had you been late? How much down did you put on it and how many years had you been paying?

The truth shall set you free.

It sure was dumb of me to get sick and not be able to work for four months. You know My only mistake really was draining my bank account in attempt to save my beloved dog from cancer. That $4000 dollar buffer would have paid my mortgage and expenses(not my soaring health care bill) while I was sick. My bad I was a sucker. I should have let my dog die. I should have known I might get sick and not have been able to work.

I really shouldn't have bought a home in the first place right? Wasn't that selfish and unrealistic of me? What was I thinking? Homes aren't for people like me,right?

Just to set the record straight, I paid on time for two years. I put nothing down, but it was a nonseller and they were glad to get rid of it at the time. And I lived in Michigan at the time, and believe me they will toss your ass out as fast as they can if they think they can resell it quickly.

When I was forclosed on, the housing market had picked up considerably and my house was worth more, not much, not enough to make refinancing worth it, but enough to convince them I was no longer worth the wait when they could probably get a fat down payment and a better monthly rate.

Really the insinuation from you that I turned my house into an ATM and partied away the money is just disgusting. I only hope you have to one day suffer as I had so you can experience the indifference of people like you.

You want some truth? You are a fukn douchebag.

Hey you're right, that did set me free!

I hate taking the side of an inconsiderate cynical douchebag but he did have a point.
While bobhh may not have been trying to treat his house as a collateral investment, to many people in the country do.

Right now we're looking at a credit crisis and mortgage failures because people got lazy and signed on for scams that have been around for decades hoping to get fast cash and abandon their payments.

bobhhh
It sure was dumb of me to get sick and not be able to work for four months.

Boo effing hoo. My appendix exploded; I spent 11 days in the ICU and three months on a can't work restriction. I managed to keep a roof over my families had, a business going and employees paid. All while popping pain pills and antibiotics like they were candy. We didn't have insurance, so we paid for the whole thing out of pocket too.

So climb down off your "pity me, pity me" pedestal and take some responsibility for your own screw ups.

bobhhh
You know My only mistake really was draining my bank account in attempt to save my beloved dog from cancer.

Lets see, completely drain emergency funds to keep a pet alive... That was stupid. Dogs are cheep. Get a new one.

bobhhh
I put nothing down, but it was a nonseller and they were glad to get rid of it at the time.

So you started of with nominal equity. Another mistake.

bobhhh
And I lived in Michigan at the time, and believe me they will toss your ass out as fast as they can if they think they can resell it quickly.

Yeah, sure. Tell me again, aside from having lost a home how much do you really know about the real estate industry, I mean other than your paranoid delusions about the intentions of the banks.

bobhhh
You want some truth? You are a fukn douchebag.

Yeah, do what victims always do. Blame the people who have to clean up after your kind.

Mister Mxyzptlk

bobhhh
It sure was dumb of me to get sick and not be able to work for four months.

Boo effing hoo. My appendix exploded; I spent 11 days in the ICU and three months on a can't work restriction. I managed to keep a roof over my families had, a business going and employees paid. All while popping pain pills and antibiotics like they were candy. We didn't have insurance, so we paid for the whole thing out of pocket too.

So climb down off your "pity me, pity me" pedestal and take some responsibility for your own screw ups.

bobhhh
You know My only mistake really was draining my bank account in attempt to save my beloved dog from cancer.

Lets see, completely drain emergency funds to keep a pet alive... That was stupid. Dogs are cheep. Get a new one.

bobhhh
I put nothing down, but it was a nonseller and they were glad to get rid of it at the time.

So you started of with nominal equity. Another mistake.

bobhhh
And I lived in Michigan at the time, and believe me they will toss your ass out as fast as they can if they think they can resell it quickly.

Yeah, sure. Tell me again, aside from having lost a home how much do you really know about the real estate industry, I mean other than your paranoid delusions about the intentions of the banks.

bobhhh
You want some truth? You are a fukn douchebag.

Yeah, do what victims always do. Blame the people who have to clean up after your kind.

I didn't want pity, I just wanted a chance to get back on my feet so I could keep paying in good faith as i had done for two years. I wasn't in the hospital with a burst appendix for a week, i was in the Hospital for two months with tubes inserted through my ribcage draining infectious fluid pockets(pleural effusions) which nearly killed me. I left the hospital with the tubes still inserted for over a motnh againsts the objection mo fmy doctors because I had no insurance and couldn't affoerd to stay once I was out of ICU for a sufficient time.

You're right I was foolish to spend money on my dog, but that's because I have a pink beating heart, not the the black stuff that oozes in your chest. I also should have had a crystal ball, because I should have known that my illness would drop me literally months after my beloved Willie died from bone cancer.

But my hardships are overnow and I eventually got back on my feet, and you are still a heartless self important prick.

I consider myself lucky.

Mister Mxyzptlk has proven to be the old muppet in the balcony. Treat accordingly.

bobhhh
You're right I was foolish to spend money on my dog, but that's because I have a pink beating heart, not the the black stuff that oozes in your chest.

I passed your comments onto a friend of mine who owns a pet service company. This was his reply to your use of your $4,000 emergency fund on a cancer ridden dog.

Holy shit. I'm a dog lover. Cancer is cancer. A dog gets that and it's fck'd. I can see a couple hundred bucks on pain killing meds and then a few cents on ultra pain killing lead. How old was the fck'ng dog and how many more days did he get out of it with $4000? Shit, economic Darwinism in action!

And this is from a guy with three dogs, one of which he took off the street because it needed a home. To paraphrase Ferris Bueller, "someone with his priorities so far out of whack doesn't deserve such a fine home."

bobhhh
I also should have had a crystal ball, because I should have known that my illness would drop me literally months after my beloved Willie died from bone cancer.

No, you should have had a clue. You blew your wad on a dog that was going to die anyhow. Shoot the dog and get a hooker to soothe your pains. It would have saved you at least $3,500 and your home.

bobhhh
But my hardships are over now and I eventually got back on my feet, and you are still a heartless self important prick.

I may be a prick, but you are a whiny angry looser who blames evil businesses for his own screw ups. I'd rather be a prick who accepts the consequences of his actions than a whiner who can't.

TnTComic
Mister Mxyzptlk has proven to be the old muppet in the balcony. Treat accordingly.

Which one, Statler or Waldorf?

Mister Mxyzptlk

bobhhh
You're right I was foolish to spend money on my dog, but that's because I have a pink beating heart, not the the black stuff that oozes in your chest.

I passed your comments onto a friend of mine who owns a pet service company. ..

So I'm supposed to be surprised your freinds are asholes too?

bobhhh
So I'm supposed to be surprised your freinds are asholes too?

Oh, the pain that comeback caused me...

Oh, my heart... No wait.. lower... my liver? My colon?

No..

Wait...

Ahh...

Nope. Just gas.

He may be an asshole, but he loves dogs. However I doubt too many sane dog lovers would blow their entire wad of savings trying to save a cancer ridden mutt, especially when the local economy isn't going great guns. Blowing that much on a dying dog makes as much sense as saying, "I had $4k in my account but I had blown it on hookers and crack a month before getting sick."

Hah! I had to go back and see what issue this thread was supposed to be covering.

It's the economy, isn't it? How's the economy doing? Well, for anyone not in the top five or so percent of this nation, or just in some business currently making money hand over fist, the economy is already bad and it's getting worse day by day.

So what can average people do about it? Nothing. All you can do is hope that your savings and investments - if you were able to make any of a significant nature - will still be there and worth a damn when it's all blown over. Meanwhile you are going to be a bit anxious and many people are really, really going to be hurting.

That aside, you can learn a lesson, which is never and I do mean NEVER ever turn the mechanisms of government over to a big businesses interests president like George W. Bush. He and Cheney and the rubber stamp republican - ultra pro big business republicans - simply turned this nation over to big business interests and now you and I have got to pay the piper for THEIR greed and excess and callous disregard for the longterm financial
health of this nation. It's a painful lesson, but there you have it.

Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the neo-robber-baron rabble that stuck it to us? Never fear, they, too, will be getting there's. Why I bet at least one out of ten thousand or so of them will actually shed a brief tear or two in passing while they spend their ill-gotten gains and laugh their asses off at the rest of us, the rubes who either believed all that 'feel-'good republican propaganda or simply did not have the voting block necessary to avert this utterly predictable disaster.

This nation belongs to big business now, and I sincerely doubt that the 'so-called' pendulum will ever again flip back to favor the average Joe. In order for this to happen, after all, it would require our congressional representatives and senators - did you know that every senator is wealthy? - to deep six their personal financial best interests in order to make things right for the greater good. Hah! As if that were ever going to happen again!

It would be interesting for the common person to finally get enough of being treated like dirt by the wealthy and powerful in this nation, but I don't see a popular uprising happening. This is because our leaders are just crafty enough to ensure that we DO still have access to enough bread and circuses to keep our malcontents isolated from the vast majority that seems incapable of recognizing when they are getting major-league screwed over by the powers that be.

As a student of human societal dynamics I find the methodology fascinating. As someone likely to go down the toilet, economically, though; I'll admit to being less than thrilled with the entire process.