Kind of a silly thing to make into a topic...but I'd like to hear some tablet users opinions.

I currently do everything by hand on paper; drawing and inking I mean. I DID have a tablet a good while back, but while it was big, I think it was a terrible brand. I practiced using it for at least two years but it was so damn slippery and laggy that it was just impossible to get used to...and it died a LOT.

So now I'm thinking of getting a new tablet (a Wacom this time I think), because the more detailed my art gets the more tedious it is becoming to try and do with it with a mouse, and I clean up and edit my lineart so much by mouse that I may as well just be drawing it all on the computer.

I find using a mouse is starting to make me more lazy with my art and I swear it has been degrading in quality because of it. So I'd like to start doing the coloring, lineart, and perhaps the regular drawing too, with a tablet.

Do ridicuously lousy brands of tablets exist or did I not practice long enough with the old one? How easily did you get used to it? Will I actually be able to get used to a Wacom? And does the mouse suck?

Still probably won't be able to get one until around Christmas....

Guess this might've been better in Tips&Tricks...

My first tablet is a wacom graphire, which is the one I am using right now. I am really satisfied with it. Sure, the sensitivity isn't as great as other (and more expensive) tablets, but it's still good.

I really don't know too much about tablets, but I hear that intuous tablets are really good, sensitivity wise.

I use an Intuos 3 and I say it is definitely worth it. Inking and coloring on computer without the jerkiness of a trackball, insecurity of a laser, or the strange feel of a mouse in general.The kinds with pressure-sensitive tips are nice. I think Wacom has a test out there to see which one is right for you.

SarahN
And does the mouse suck?

You know the answer to that.

Since we're talking about tablets in this thread (which I'm dying to get one...), does anyone have any clue how much a Wacom screen tablet would cost?

I heard about 'em somewhere and I've just never come across one on the interent. I think those would work much better for someone like me, who literally has to see what I'm drawing.

Priest_Revan
Since we're talking about tablets in this thread (which I'm dying to get one...), does anyone have any clue how much a Wacom screen tablet would cost?

Well, there's this one:
http://www.wacom.com/cintiq/index.cfm
$2499.

SarahN

Priest_Revan
Since we're talking about tablets in this thread (which I'm dying to get one...), does anyone have any clue how much a Wacom screen tablet would cost?

Well, there's this one:
http://www.wacom.com/cintiq/index.cfm
$2499.

Well, that's not too much.

SarahN
Do ridicuously lousy brands of tablets exist or did I not practice long enough with the old one? How easily did you get used to it? Will I actually be able to get used to a Wacom? And does the mouse suck?

Still probably won't be able to get one until around Christmas....

Guess this might've been better in Tips&Tricks...

1) Not sure on other brands - I've always used Wacom.
2) I got used to my Wacom after maybe a week or two of using it regularly; since you've worked on tablets before, it ought to be even quicker for you.
3) Of course. A Wacom is quite easy to get used to, and like I said, it will be even easier for you, since you've used a tablet.
4) Y HELLO THAR, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome!

Hope that helped.

Yes, there are brands of shitty tablets. I once owned a £50 tablet which managed to last a meagre 2 months before it broke (after I stepped on it, but that's not the point). It was incredibly flimsy and all-round shit. A waste of money.

Wacom are generally acknowledged as making the best tablets you can buy, and I consider the greater price to merely be in investment. I bought my intuos 2 three or four years ago, and it's never broken. It's slightly worn on the plastic cover of drawing area (I use it a lot) though this doesn't affect performance in the slightest, and I've had to replace the plastic nib once (it actually wore right down... that's how much I use it)... but the tablet comes with spare nibs for free, as well as spare buttons for the pen, so you just have to remember where you stashed 'em. My intuos has also gone on six transatlantic flights with me, merrily survived all of them, and I've never had any trouble with it at all. Also, the drivers are easily found online (wacom's not too precious about that sort of thing) so it's easy to set up on a new computer, even if you've lost the cds.

As they say, if something is shit, any amount of money is too expensive. But if it's hardwearing, and does everything you want it to do, and is going to be incredibly useful to you... and is all-round spectacular... then that extra money is an investment and worth it because it'll last and last, and you'll get endless use out of it. It's comparatively cheap.

As for which to choose... well, it always boils down to a choice between the Graphire and the Intuos. The Graphire was actually designed with the pro graphic designer in mind, and is not really intended for full-blown artists (apoligies, graphic designers - but you know what I mean). I've heard rumours that it's not as hardwearing (ie, it might conk out after two or three years... in the older ones I hear it's the board tends to blow) and is not designed for such rigorous use. Hence it's cheaper.

The intuos was designed for pro digital illustrators and painters (people like us), and is (very generally speaking) the higher quality product, hence the additional cost. It's designed to take a beating, be used for hours every day, and keep on going. They're very very hardwearing, and a good investment, if you intend to use it a lot. Also, they're fairly addictive... they take most people about a week to become used to, and then you forget how you ever coped without it.

Try using it to do something other than art to begin with, to get used to it. Such as play an RPG. Helps you get used to the action without any judgement on the quality of your art... and therefore the usefulness of the thing. :)

Oh! and finally... don't get a big huge one. A friend of mine has carpal tunnel in both his hands and bought himself a gigantic tablet to try and compensate... the largest size Wacom made. He said it felt like drawing on a tombstone, that it weighed a ton, and that it cut off the blood to his legs (most people hold their tablets on their laps). Get an A4 or A5 one (mine's got an A5 drawing area, and the actual tablet size is a little bigger than A4)... and it'll be more comfortable to use.

Pixie covered just about everything I would say. I've been using Wacom for years now, and I've never had a problem with them (I started with a Graphire 4x6, and upgraded to an Intuos 6x8 last year - both worked well for me).

I'd just like to say, don't buy an Aiptek. Thinking I'd save some cash, I bought one, saved about $30 off the price of a Wacom, and had nothing but headaches for the year that I tried (and failed) to get it to work properly before it finally gave up on life and died for no reason. Not to mention that the plastic casing on the pen (god, it was blue and ugly) cracked and broke during normal usage. Worst piece of crap ever. Go with Wacom and save yourself some headaches in the future, it's worth the extra cash, lol.

For ppl who use Tablets:

If money was no object, do you think you'd want to switch to using a Wacom screen?

Or do you think you're perfectly at ease with a Tablet, and a Wacom screen (even a free one) would be just a curiosity to you that you'd use a minority of the time?

Consider the cons of a Wacom screen... It's not as portable, you have to hold your hand up on the screen, you prolly can't push down too hard on the screen or you'll damage it, etc etc.

mlai
For ppl who use Tablets:

If money was no object, do you think you'd want to switch to using a Wacom screen?

Or do you think you're perfectly at ease with a Tablet, and a Wacom screen (even a free one) would be just a curiosity to you that you'd use a minority of the time?

Consider the cons of a Wacom screen... It's not as portable, you have to hold your hand up on the screen, you prolly can't push down too hard on the screen or you'll damage it, etc etc.

Just a note, as owner of a Wacom screen - it stands up pretty well to pressure. I've been using mine for weeks now, and it's yet to gain a single scratch. I'm not advocating stabbing it repeatedly with your pen to see what happens, but it's pretty sturdy....

.... But since I already own one, I suppose I'm too biased to answer your question! :p

A tablet is definitely a must for me. I do all my inking there and I love it. I have used it obscenely much over the past what? 3-4 years I have it and it has not died or broken. It's a Wacom so I also second the statement that they are very good quality.

Definitely worth to invest in one.

Frostflowers
Just a note, as owner of a Wacom screen - it stands up pretty well to pressure. I've been using mine for weeks now, and it's yet to gain a single scratch. I'm not advocating stabbing it repeatedly with your pen to see what happens, but it's pretty sturdy....
.... But since I already own one, I suppose I'm too biased to answer your question! :p

Well, have you owned (and gotten used to) a Tablet before owning a Screen? Please compare your experiences with these items. Is the screen just better in all aspects (aside from the price)? Does it feel/work better, even if you had been comfortable with the Tablet before owning a Screen?

mlai

Frostflowers
Just a note, as owner of a Wacom screen - it stands up pretty well to pressure. I've been using mine for weeks now, and it's yet to gain a single scratch. I'm not advocating stabbing it repeatedly with your pen to see what happens, but it's pretty sturdy....
.... But since I already own one, I suppose I'm too biased to answer your question! :p

Well, have you owned (and gotten used to) a Tablet before owning a Screen? Please compare your experiences with these items. Is the screen just better in all aspects (aside from the price)? Does it feel/work better, even if you had been comfortable with the Tablet before owning a Screen?

I don't know... I think that some people choose a screen because (from I've been told) it's a little weird to draw (or write) on something that shows up somewhere else.

I think the exact quote would be "your hand feels disconnected".

mlai

Frostflowers
Just a note, as owner of a Wacom screen - it stands up pretty well to pressure. I've been using mine for weeks now, and it's yet to gain a single scratch. I'm not advocating stabbing it repeatedly with your pen to see what happens, but it's pretty sturdy....
.... But since I already own one, I suppose I'm too biased to answer your question! :p

Well, have you owned (and gotten used to) a Tablet before owning a Screen? Please compare your experiences with these items. Is the screen just better in all aspects (aside from the price)? Does it feel/work better, even if you had been comfortable with the Tablet before owning a Screen?

I have owned another tablet - also Wacom - and yes, I was pretty comfortable with it.

The switch over to the cintiq took some getting used to - it felt unfamiliar to be working with digital art while using the same angle as when painting traditionally (I do acrylics occasionally) - but I got used to it much faster than I thought I would.

Another difference is that the screen is much smoother than my old tablet; the pen slips more easily over it. Before I got used to it, it felt a little unnerving, but it's nothing more than a quirk of a new medium.

The one thing that can be seen as a con of the cintiq is the sheer size of it. I've got a standard 17 inch monitor as a primary, and the 21 inch cintiq screen is sometimes difficult to work with. Since there's so much more surface to cover when working, you tend to use much wider, broader strokes; the result of which is that you tire easily.

Also, the little scroll touch-pads on the sides are very sensitive - when you angle your arm in such a way that it happens to brush over it, it will react immediately and zoom out. Again, it's a matter of getting used to it and learning how to position your limbs while working, but still, it's a minor annoyance. The issue of it being less portable was never a major one for me, since I never moved my other tablet around much.

For me, the cintiq works and feels better. The size (it does cover quite a lot of my desk) and the cost of it are the only major cons I have discovered so far.

ETA: I'm agreeing with Priest_Revan here; my biggest issue with the regular tablet is the disconnected feel of it. With the cintiq, I'm rid of that. Also, I've personally experienced the reaction-time of the cintiq to be better than my old tablet (a Graphire).

Priest_Revan
I don't know... I think that some people choose a screen because (from I've been told) it's a little weird to draw (or write) on something that shows up somewhere else.

I think the exact quote would be "your hand feels disconnected".

That doesn't take too long to get used to since you do that all the time with a mouse anyway. ;)

The Cintiq is going to be the easiest to get used to, but the cost is prohibitive.

One important thing to remember is that NO tablet will make you a better artist. Absolutely not. They're not going to enhance your skills one single bit, what they do is make it much easier to transfer the skills you already have to the digital format. So that's what you have to weigh up:
Is the digital stage that important to your work that you need to spend up big? How much is that part of your work worth?

For me it's 100%, so I consider it worth the expense. I may in future upgrade to a Cintiq if I've got the cash for it, but my big Intous has served me very well over he years so far.


Heh, but to illustrate my point on Tablets not making you a better artist, I was interested to read that the guy who makes Ctrl Alt Delete, the guy who makes Dilbert, the guy that does PVP and the guys that do Penny arcade all have Cintiqs, and well, while they're all very proficient at what they do, not one of them produces digital artwork to a high level that I would think would justify the expense of such a tool... So there you go. ;)

One of my major concerns with Cintiqs is that when I draw, my hand rests on the surface that I'm drawing (I know, that's bad, but I have weak wrists and arms and it's extremely uncomfortable for me to draw with my hand lifted). I'm guessing that I'd end up making a horrible smudgy mess of the screen in about ten seconds. It's not that big of a deal, but I think it would bother me... I don't like touching my monitor because I can't stand fingerprints on it, lol.

I'd definitely have to try one out before I decided if it was worth dropping that much cash on, though. I don't have a lot of problems with the "tablet disconnect" so I'm not sure that it would be useful enough to me to justify the cash.

I'd say that wacom probably has some of the best driver support compared to other tablets EXCEPT on vista. On XP, works like a dream, on Vista, its a crapshoot.

I've been using a tablet for a couple of years now, and coming from a traditional art background, it did take some serious getting used to. I probably wouldn't bother with any tablet but a wacom, given what I've heard from other artists.

The graphire was sort of the 'consumer' lower end tablet for a long time, although they've got a new one called the 'bamboo' out as their low end 'everyman' tablet. The higher end "Intuos" tablets have literally twice the amount of pressure sensitivity and range of tilt sensitivity than the lower end tablets. The drawing surface of the intuos is also softer with more 'tooth' than the smoother lower end plastic tablets that take a while to train your wrists to.

I found I had to kinda 'relearn' to draw on a tablet. Its much more like painting in a way than drawing, and it took some serious practice BUT I did find a significant quality jump in my work in terms of it looking polished. I could also take advantage of some programs I wouldn't otherwise be able to use fully. (mangastudio's inking tools for example)

I found the graphire 3 tablets to be more frail than their G2 counterparts, particularly around the cord. If it is transported too much without care to the cord, it causes problems with connectivity. I need to replace my home tablet some time for this reason as it keeps disconnecting whenever I move. I love my work Intuos tablet, and I really hope one day to have the money to have one at home. Out of the two, the Intuos would get my vote. I think actually drawing on a screen now would irritate me somewhat.

However, that being said, I use the tablet primarily for drawing and inking, I don't actually use it for color. All the coloring I do in PS is using the pen tool, which works far better with the mouse. So there's a strange factoid for ya, but I still can heartily recommend a tablet, even to those who have been traditionally working on paper. It does offer some definate advantages.

ozoneocean

Priest_Revan
I don't know... I think that some people choose a screen because (from I've been told) it's a little weird to draw (or write) on something that shows up somewhere else.

I think the exact quote would be "your hand feels disconnected".

That doesn't take too long to get used to since you do that all the time with a mouse anyway. ;)

Well, that's coming from you Ozone... I mean, your art isn't even fair compared to mine or... pretty much anyone elses...

I think the use of a tablet does depend on how good you are with actual pen and paper and how good you were at other art-like things before you started using it.

silentkitty
One of my major concerns with Cintiqs is that when I draw, my hand rests on the surface that I'm drawing (I know, that's bad, but I have weak wrists and arms and it's extremely uncomfortable for me to draw with my hand lifted). I'm guessing that I'd end up making a horrible smudgy mess of the screen in about ten seconds.

For those with a screen:
The screen only registers the touch of a pen, correct? I mean that if you rest your hand/arm on it, it won't produce black blobs on your picture, right?

Because I don't think anyone can draw if they aren't allowed to rest their hand and arm on a stabilizing surface.

Priest_Revan
Well, that's coming from you Ozone... I mean, your art isn't even fair compared to mine or... pretty much anyone elses...

Ahaha, that makes me feel great man, thanks for that :)

Ah, it's not true though, I just spend a lot of time drawing it and thinking about how to make it look the way I want. There're quite a lot of people here who do the same kind of work as me and much better if they wanted- In this thread alone I personally know that pixie and SiIentkitty do sort of the same stuff and I also know they are WAY better at drawing figures and scenes than me: more imaginative, faster, cleverer, better at figures, faces, expressions, etc. So they can do what I do and exceed it without too much trouble.

Everyone else here has their own style, their own thing that they exceed at. You can't tell me that 2's a Company would work in the Pinky TA style. But it does in your style and you produce that to the highest level that you can and it shows. It looks good.

Anyway, back to tablets.
Mlai, I don't know because I've never used one but I'd say they work exactly like a normal tablet: only the pen can make the marks, nothing else. But it WOULD be cool if your arm DID do that... :)

And as for marks on the screen, yep, that'd be annoying! I suppose it'd be a lot easier to clean than a normal screen... But it's still something to think about! Is there some kind of protective removable film like with the Intuos? Because permanent mark would give me the shits!
Heh, with my Intuous tablet I prefer drawing with fingerless gloves on now because it makes my hands glide over the surface so much easier, and I've found that means it stays really, really clean :)

I own a Wacom tablet, and I have to say, once you figure out how to us it then its a joy to use!
Expect I can't us mine alot, naw, to much work to do. ;_;

mlai

silentkitty
One of my major concerns with Cintiqs is that when I draw, my hand rests on the surface that I'm drawing (I know, that's bad, but I have weak wrists and arms and it's extremely uncomfortable for me to draw with my hand lifted). I'm guessing that I'd end up making a horrible smudgy mess of the screen in about ten seconds.

For those with a screen:
The screen only registers the touch of a pen, correct? I mean that if you rest your hand/arm on it, it won't produce black blobs on your picture, right?

Because I don't think anyone can draw if they aren't allowed to rest their hand and arm on a stabilizing surface.

No, it doesn't register anything else than the pen. The only part of a cintiq that registers the touch of anything else are the small scrolling-strips, one on each side of the screen.

And I agree - drawing at any angle without being able to rest your wrist on something? That's an invitation to both wrist-pains and horribly shaky lines.

ozoneocean
And as for marks on the screen, yep, that'd be annoying! I suppose it'd be a lot easier to clean than a normal screen... But it's still something to think about! Is there some kind of protective removable film like with the Intuos? Because permanent mark would give me the shits!
Heh, with my Intuous tablet I prefer drawing with fingerless gloves on now because it makes my hands glide over the surface so much easier, and I've found that means it stays really, really clean

You do get fingerprints all over it, but they're only visible when looking at the cintiq from an angle. Straight frontal view - i.e; the view most of us have when working on it - they're invisible. The only thing, visibility-wise, that I have trouble with is the fact that it seems to attract dust like a highly dust-attracting... thing.

Also, my cintiq arrived without the protective removable film. However, aside from the dust and the fingerprint-issues, it's pretty sturdy. I've had one scare with an oh-no-don't-let-it-be-a-scratch! but I managed to avoid it; turned out to be a trick of the light. They do tell you to avoid using anything but the pen that goes with it, but even scratching it repeatedly with your nails doesn't bring up a mark.

And, while I'm typing away, I'd like to wholeheartedly second the people who say that tablets =/= instantly better art. All it is is yet another tool; it doesn't change your skill level in things like anatomy, composition, proportion, colour-theory and all those other important things. The art tends to look smoother (unless you're trigger-happy on textures and natural media brushes), and it has a superiority when it comes to changing your mind (god, I wish acrylic-and-canvas efforts had a handy Undo button!), but it's not going to instantly turn you into a great artist, if you weren't already.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/22/wacom-adds-a-baby-cintiq-the-12wx-tablet-display/

a more affordable version of the much talked about Cintiq T_T

Also this video of a guy using a cintiq 21ux has a way around the smudging, using a cheap modified white glove

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oE2APo_EORQ

I think the Cintiq improved my art. For some reason my art still has a really bad skew to the right when I draw on paper. But not on my Cintiq. At times it shows up but I tend to notice it better there and mirror to make sure.

I've had the cintiq since around January or February of this year, and it still has no scratches. I love it. I never finished a digital comic because I hated the scan clean up process and coloring with a mouse.

Now it is so simple ^_^

I never had a tablet. (well I did but it was so cheap that it had no pressure sensitivity and was horrible to get used to)

I looked at the prices of wacom tablets and thought they were too expensive and didn't want to learn how to draw on tablet while my mouse was onscreen.

I began searching for a tablet that had a screen I could draw on. I saw the Cintiq. My 1st thought, "This thing will be like $6000 -_-"

I was really surprised to see $2500 I was like, that is just a few times more than tablets.

I got accustomed to it in a week.

mlai
Consider the cons of a Wacom screen... It's not as portable, you have to hold your hand up on the screen, you prolly can't push down too hard on the screen or you'll damage it, etc etc.

I've actually sat and leaned back in a chair with the Cintiq propped up in my lap as if it were a clipboard/paper. Though you cannot do it as long =P
I move mine into the floor and I lay down and draw in front of it. You can lay it down or sit it up. And I have applied as much pressure as I do with a pencil. It seems very resilient. It has survived my 3 cats jumping on it without a blemish as well, unlike all my papers -_-

I don't know... I think that some people choose a screen because (from I've been told) it's a little weird to draw (or write) on something that shows up somewhere else.

I think the exact quote would be "your hand feels disconnected".BINGO! I could never get used to the old crappy tablet I had.

Also, the little scroll touch-pads on the sides are very sensitive - when you angle your arm in such a way that it happens to brush over it, it will react immediately and zoom out. Again, it's a matter of getting used to it and learning how to position your limbs while working, but still, it's a minor annoyance. The issue of it being less portable was never a major one for me, since I never moved my other tablet around much.You can turn them off or make them do other functions entirely. Though I chose to work around them, I love using them to zoom too much to disable them =P I should set the left one to something else though, I never use it to scroll which is what it's current task is.

One of my major concerns with Cintiqs is that when I draw, my hand rests on the surface that I'm drawing (I know, that's bad, but I have weak wrists and arms and it's extremely uncomfortable for me to draw with my hand lifted). I'm guessing that I'd end up making a horrible smudgy mess of the screen in about ten seconds. It's not that big of a deal, but I think it would bother me... I don't like touching my monitor because I can't stand fingerprints on it, lol.

I'd definitely have to try one out before I decided if it was worth dropping that much cash on, though. I don't have a lot of problems with the "tablet disconnect" so I'm not sure that it would be useful enough to me to justify the cash.

Smudging isn't bad. I spray mine with windex once a month and wipe it down =P

This thread have lots of good informations. My impression is that Wacom seems to be the first choice for someone who's going to use a tablet for a first time or for someone who wants to make a good investment (other than Intuo or Cintiq).

I primarly use mouse (due to the fact that I never owned a tablet) and the only time I've used a tablet was during my college computer class on illustrator (ugh) and it was only for few days.

I guess the question I have is if there is some basic guidline for the type of tablets that a beginner or someone like me could use that will last a long time or whatever. What would it be? Or do people dont have much choices in choosing between some of the tablets avaliable (as in Wacom graphire and intuos)?