I'm... not sure I get the op. For someone who is so fuming mad on bias they sure are spouting a lot of it themselves. If you want to know why people dont like your genre, it's the same exact reason as why you dont like the ones that suck. It's just not for everyone, get over it. Spriters dont get a lot of recognition because of things like this. Because when the argument is put out there, and it's said, it comes with this flavor of self-entitlement. Just because you make art does not mean you need to get positive feedback. Just because you belong to a certain genre doesnt mean you deserve to be put above everyone else.

prove it. Dont be a big blubbering baby, actually go out there and make something that transcends pre-conceptions of your genre, but at least stop acting like you belong to this race of people. It's the same issue people have with furries for crissake, this sense of entitlement. If you want things to be equal, dont be so bitter AND bias when you call everyone else out. You cant tell everyone that being judgmental is a sin with an attitude like that. Formulate calm cool rational reasons WHY people should get interested in your genre, dont just sit there and say "well if you dont like it, fuuuuuuck you".

I've met many a webcomicer who doesnt seem to get this concept: artwork is subjective. Just because you like it doesnt mean everyone else does. Just because you hate it doesnt mean everyone else hates it. You will never get everyone to like you. The best you can do is do the best you can do.

There are plenty of Objective reasons why sprite comics are bad. There's so much you can't do with them. Worse if you try to do too much with them you end up with an ugly, confusing mess.

ReaperX, when asked for examples of 'good Sprites' do not post something you made yourself, you will come off as an arrogant prat.

Well, I know a few skills that deals with both:
- Color Coordination (For clothing, hair, etc.)
- Proportions (Body posture and structure) (Mainly for drawing and scratch sprites)

when you are dealing with 15x30 blocks of pixels there is only so much you can develop an understanding of human proportions. But the main problem with this argument is that you only do them once. All your sprites have the same proportions. I'll wager they don't often change their clothes either.

Phillby
There are plenty of Objective reasons why sprite comics are bad. There's so much you can't do with them. Worse if you try to do too much with them you end up with an ugly, confusing mess.

ReaperX, when asked for examples of 'good Sprites' do not post something you made yourself, you will come off as an arrogant prat.

also when they look like they're based off megaman 7 sprites.

Whoa whoa whoa, I don't mean to come off as a Prat or anything like that, I don't want to fight with anyone, this isn't an argument, just a discussion.

Those were the only examples I had anyways, and they weren't just my sprites.

Lefarce
I'm... not sure I get the op. For someone who is so fuming mad on bias they sure are spouting a lot of it themselves. If you want to know why people dont like your genre, it's the same exact reason as why you dont like the ones that suck. It's just not for everyone, get over it. Spriters dont get a lot of recognition because of things like this. Because when the argument is put out there, and it's said, it comes with this flavor of self-entitlement. Just because you make art does not mean you need to get positive feedback. Just because you belong to a certain genre doesnt mean you deserve to be put above everyone else.

prove it. Dont be a big blubbering baby, actually go out there and make something that transcends pre-conceptions of your genre, but at least stop acting like you belong to this race of people. It's the same issue people have with furries for crissake, this sense of entitlement. If you want things to be equal, dont be so bitter AND bias when you call everyone else out. You cant tell everyone that being judgmental is a sin with an attitude like that. Formulate calm cool rational reasons WHY people should get interested in your genre, dont just sit there and say "well if you dont like it, fuuuuuuck you".

I've met many a webcomicer who doesnt seem to get this concept: artwork is subjective. Just because you like it doesnt mean everyone else does. Just because you hate it doesnt mean everyone else hates it. You will never get everyone to like you. The best you can do is do the best you can do.

Lefarce, you are not getting what I'm saying, and totally misunderstanding me. I know why some people don't like Spriting, I know why it's frowned upon, I know all of that. I just wanted to know and see if people could maybe take the time to notice the good spriters out there.
And really, I never cared if EVERYONE likes me, or hated me, I deal with enough of that in my life that I just stopped caring about all of that. If people don't like it, or me, or whoever, all the power to them. Just don't flame me or whoever.
I started this thread calm and collected, and remain that way, I said I do not want to fight with anyone, and I stand by that. This is just a discussion after all.
I don't want to be put above everyone else either, because that's stupid really, I don't deserve to be in a top spot, I know that. I'm not saying every spriter should get onto the top ten or featured.

If I came off like a self-absorbed prat, I didn't mean to. But I'm not going to go around and steal other people's work to prove a point, because that'd defeat it, so I'll use my work as an "umbrella" example.

If you care to have a look at my comic (go on please do) you might say, "but your art is crap, they look like inbreed stick men. And what about the image quality, total rubbish. I've seen comics that are much better than this" Appart from being rude, you would also be right, and I admit that my comic has many faults and even through it should be improved I know that the art isn't probably going to get better. I know that. But ReaperEx, you're like a dog with a bone, you just won't let go or relent. When we say that most sprite comics are crap and unreadable you don't need to defend that. Notice how we are not insulting your comic, because it doesn't fit into the type of comic that we are whining about. Have the abilty to step back and have an unbias look at things.

Someone
American007 is a sprite comic here on Drunkduck that I think is actually pretty good. I've only read a few of the pages (so I'm not judging writing) but it looks visually pretty good.

That is not a good Sonic comic. If you're going to do it right, do it this way:

@ Original Poster:

If you want to be a real artist who improves on drawing and making comics, stop spending your time making sprites, and start drawing either on paper, or on your screen with a Tablet. When you make a sprite comic you're wasting your time/energy.

If you equate making a sprite comic to a personal hobby... such as playing with action figures or puppets... then okay. But don't call sprite comics as good comics or art. BTW, that example of Skullbie's is digital art, not sprite comics. 2D sprite comics is a dead end, like stick figure comics. You don't really get better.

If you really want to stick to "copy/paste" comics, then at least do something like Cru The Dwarf. At least you learn something about 3D models and rendering.

Now, I'm not saying you're a bad artist/person or something, for making sprite comics. I'm saying that you're devoting your creative time/energy to a dead-end storytelling form that has a very low ceiling of possible quality. IMO, the hierarchy of artistic ceilings looks like this:

HIGHEST
non-generic-anime-style comics (both Eastern and Western)
|
generic-anime-style comics
|
|
|
3D models comics (that use copyrighted models)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Stickman comics
|
|
2D sprite comics (copyrighted or original sprites)
LOWEST

Some people in this thread need to ease up a bit.


Reaper, if you want to talk about good sprite comics, maybe you could post some more examples? I don't think people are sold on the one or two you linked.

Eh, you know what? skoolmunkee's right. I'm-a just give it up.

I'm giving up too, my apologies for this whole mess. I wasn't very clear on my whole reasons, but it doesn't really matter now =P.
Let's just go back to our lives.
Again, I'm sorry.

ReaperEX
I'm giving up too, my apologies for this whole mess. I wasn't very clear on my whole reasons, but it doesn't really matter now =P.
Let's just go back to our lives.
Again, I'm sorry.

Don't be sorry. It's your opinion, and you felt like voicing it.

Basically, the bottom line is, people don't like spriters because most suck. It's just a common (mis)conception. I would put conception, but I actually kind of agree.

Ryuthehedgewolf

ReaperEX
I'm giving up too, my apologies for this whole mess. I wasn't very clear on my whole reasons, but it doesn't really matter now =P.
Let's just go back to our lives.
Again, I'm sorry.

Don't be sorry. It's your opinion, and you felt like voicing it.

Basically, the bottom line is, people don't like spriters because most suck. It's just a common (mis)conception. I would put conception, but I actually kind of agree.

I was saying sorry for bringing up the mess that brought forth the flaming.
You're right about that, and that we take copyrighted stuff (99% of us) and warp it.
But, this is my last post here, and thank you for your kind words for most of you!

I actually don't have anything against spriters. A lot of my readers are spriters (Don't know what that says :D) mostly my readers on SJ but some on DD as well.

I sort of just equate sprites comics as their own style/genre i.e. Yuri/Yaoi comics, superhero comics, furry comics, B/W comics, Manga etc. There are good and bad comics in every format, I just think you have to really look for them.

I actually came across a sprite comic about Chuck Norris that I thought was hilarious, (Can't remember the name) but sprite comics that aren't Mega Man, Pokemon', Mario, or Sonic related are few and far between.

I really don't have an issue with the whole copyright thing and people using those characters, it just seem as though in a sprite comic you're pretty limited in what you can do with them.

I've said my peace. :)

Skullbie
And also i believe pixel art can be downright amazing in the hands of a skilled designer:

i am a sucker for anything shadow of the colossus related.



but on topic...I dont like sprite comics because none of them say anything. In a comic made purely by technology, you have such a wide open plateu to make some kind of statement about video games, the obsoleteness of old graphics, whatever...but no, i read comics that read like bad fanfiction (what if mario and sonic teamed up to beat red rocket??) or stuff with stupid toilet humor.

Want to be taken seriously? grow up a little and tell stories worth reading.

I'm a spriter. I use FF sprites because I haven't got the time to meticulously edit every sprite. But I try and focus on the story more than anything.

You want examples of sprite comics that have become almost famous? 8-Bit theater. Bob and George. I've never read B&G, but I can safely say that 8BT uses pre-made sprites. The stigma isn't about using copyrighted characters (Brian Clevinger even uses the FF1 storyline). So why are these popular? because of the writing. I believe that while the sprites themselves play a large part in sprite comics, the writing is what needs to be focused on more. People assume that it's just sprite comics that do this, but One One Se7en, an infamous Halo comic, only has a few poses for each character, rendering it a cut-and-paste comic.

So, things that people say hurt sprite comics can easily be overcome.

What really annoys me is the spriters who feel an insatiable need to make Sonic and Shadow have half-brothers and relatives. Also, when people self-insert, they almost always make themselves some damn-near-omnipotent Lord of the End or something like that. Another thing that gets my goat is all these "Random Adventures of Copyrighted Characters!" comics. These are not funny. I HATE these. Basically, these are grounds for people who can't think of jokes with substance, so they just stick in LOL PIE jokes.

I spend countless hours thinking of jokes, characters and concepts for my comic. I sit and try and think of jokes for ages and ages, and I scrawl character bios all over my school books.

Yes, I said school books. One of the other things that I think people dislike spriters for is that generally speaking, spriters are younger than artists. Invariably, we are less inexperienced. I was once on a forum where a younger member claimed he was going to make a gaming webcomic, which woukd include characters from webcomics and from Over the Hedge. I'm going to post the criticism he was given.

Knowing how old you are; making a 'web-comic' right now, there will hardly be any respect for it. If you want to head into this all, you'd probably need to be as old or older as the characters you're making. You're a minor, and most people won't see you anything other then the other several thousand of people like you with big dreams and absolutely no commitment. In shorter terms, a poseur trying to get famous with several overused jokes and poor drawing.

Also; it seems like you want to delve into romantic relationships like every other hopeful webcomic creator that thinks it'll make it cool and add depth. Relationships are difficult, they're bumpy and they're never on a straight path. You don't have experience in this sort of stuff and romance is never like it is in the movies or TV. If you don't have firsthand experience on how having a girlfriend would work, and where it would lead, realize that in the end it would come off as horrifically overdone and not realistic because, in the end, you have almost no idea what you're talking about.

Also; it honestly seems like you're story arcs are entirely 'lol i used 1337 to make it funnyr'. Making satirical things are kind of funny, but only when used once. Then it gets ridiculous and will only make the lowest class of noob to go 'HAHAHAHA'. It's good to have a running gag in these sorts of things, it individualizes your comic from everybody else's who would go 'I'll make a joke about pie. Then after, something completely unrelated' though only when it's original and genuinely funny and, as an author, you need to know when that running gag stops running, falls to the ground and crawls across the 'not funny anymore' desert, whispering for water though knowing it cannot die without your arbitrary judgment.

And in general, the entire thing is too big a dream to handle. Epic flash animations by you? Frankly, you'd need to find voice actors willing to talk for someone half their age; you'd need actual experience with Flash and have Flash itself. You might have the last one, but the other two are the problems. In fact, you're last theme would be the most horrible problem. You're including characters from every web-comic you could think of? And Over The Hedge? I'm not being mean, but I sincerely doubt that almost any of those writers would let you use their characters for some kid who thinks he's going to be the most famous web-comic artist ever. Especially Over The Hedge. What? It's a licensed trademark. I doubt they'd all go' lawl, let's give this guy rights to add in our characters to his internet web comic'. Especially with money-making webcomics like Penny Arcade, CtrlAltDelete, Dr. McNinja and VGCats; you can bet on two syllables. Lawsuit. This would become an even bigger problem if you decided that you were going to try to sell books of this like so many others have done. Well; that would be impossible, actually; since you're a minor, but regardless. You're going to need permission for this, and what makes you think the authors of all those web-comics, out of the hundreds of other people who probably ask for those successful authors character's to cameo in their less successful comic, will choose you?

I'm not being negative, and I'm not trying to put you down; I'm being realistic about the scenario and telling you to to put things in perspective and realize you'd need to wait a few years and improve your skills before you go 'maybe I could make a webcomic'. Right now; you're simply dreaming and unless you've got a magical fairy in your pocket, a lot of these things you're planning on won't happen until a few years.

So sprite comics aren't entirely the only ones with problems. A lot of the stigma attached to sprite comics can also be applied to normal webcomics too.

Has anyone ever bothered making a sprite comic with overhead camera or isometric point of view?

Actually, it just hit me you could make a "digital comic" that would go way beyond sprites. For example as establishing shots you'd have isometric view of the room. Bits with characters travelling around the city/locations could have overhead point of view (think zelda or old final fantasy) and the conversations could use game-inspired balloons or face closeups as in some games.

And you could stage action sequences in 3d or have them look like cutscenes from old 8bit games (that had cutscenes that is).

Not all pixel art is sprites, fyi. Like the things Skullbie posted. Diesel Sweeties could be argues either way that it is or isn't a sprite, but reading about R. Steven's process for creating his comics, it's completely different from making sprites. I think the fact that all his characters are original characters that he designed kind of takes it out of the sprite category.

Whoever said sprite comics are like reality TV was spot on. Cheap to make, nowhere near as good as something scripted. Except that there are some reality TV shows I can't help but watch. Not so much with sprites.

I guess for me, I am indifferent towards Sprite comics.
I find it amusing that so many people get flamed on either side; for or against them.
Who cares?
If you enjoy making them, so be it.
If you don't like them, don't read them.
It seems so simple to me.

When I search for comics to read I personally avoid Sprite Comics because I am not interested in reading a story about Sonic or FF. I feel the same about any parody or tribute comics. But that's my opinion. My taste. Also I enjoy sunsets and dipping chocolate bunnies in peanut butter. But that's me. I'm not ashamed of what I like. ;)

It was once said, can't quote worth a crap, but it was once said in manners of taste there should be no dispute. Makes sense. Why argue over an over-done sprite comic?

TheMidge28
It was once said, can't quote worth a crap, but it was once said in manners of taste there should be no dispute.

"There's no accounting for taste?"

And you're right- there isn't. To each his own, eh?

Aurora Borealis
Has anyone ever bothered making a sprite comic with overhead camera or isometric point of view?

Like this, maybe?

TheMidge28
I guess for me, I am indifferent towards Sprite comics.
I find it amusing that so many people get flamed on either side; for or against them.
Who cares?
If you enjoy making them, so be it.
If you don't like them, don't read them.
It seems so simple to me.

Always try to keep in mind the MST3K Mantra...

I have to say that I only had readed 1 sprite comic (Bob and George) and it was the first webcomic I ever readed. I founded funny, insane at times, but overall enjoyable.

Im neither a fierce detractor, since it was a sprite comic that showed me that there is more than press comic-manga (and for free...) and sprites are tools, how good are they used is up to the creator, or Im a huge fan, since no sprite comic had really caught my atention since Bob and George...

About the copyrighted issues, I think is only a HUGE MAJOR subject if the creator is lucrating with the comic. Other than that, is like fanfic...there is good fanfic, bad fanfic, atrocious fanfic...and My Inmortal...and Twilight...

Dark Pascual

Aurora Borealis
Has anyone ever bothered making a sprite comic with overhead camera or isometric point of view?

Like this, maybe?

Yep. Too bad it's zelda related :P

I have absoloutely no problem with the use of copyrighted characters in Sprite comics. Some of the best webcomics out there make heavy use of them.

My issue with Sprite comics in general is the same issue I have with copy-paste webcomics. It's just not a very good way of doing things, and generally looks bad.

I'd love to see a pixelart webcomic that wasn't just a sprite comic let off on a technicallity. Maybe I should have a go myself.

I remember meeting this hugely popular sprite webcomic author at Acen08. He used to be the one of the top ten on Buzzcomix years ago. He did this comic...something of Mana?
Anyway. He told me it was an unfortunate that he started with spites because he could have made so much more money if he drew it on his own. You can't print sprites that aren't your own. Think of how well 8-bit Theater would have done if he could make his comic in a printed form.

If you are looking for more of a sprite community Smackjeeves has it.

people making sprite comics belong to one of three groups, in my opinion.


1. people too lazy to make something unique

2. people giving in to an obvious cultural trend, sacrificing things like originality and creativity just so they will be read, ultimately bastardizing comics as an art form.

then there is the third group.

3. People who make their own sprites, leaving them to work on things like in-depth and highly original plotlines, and ignoring things like cheap jokes and mind-numbing parodies.

this is spriting in the way it should be, people making use of nostalgic types of images to ultimately create fun and cool comics and give a feel that no other type of artistry can recreate.