Looks like sega got a clue and decided redeem itself. I'm not sure if they can recapture their old school glory, but i'm glad they are at least trying.

While the game is a brand-new adventure, it will definitely pick up after Sonic & Knuckles. However, what you are looking at is the beginning of a new story arc.

Updated project needlemouse trailer :3

Wait, Project Needlemouse was a Sonic game all along?

Mind=Blown.

: / Am i the only one who is excited at the idea that a new sonic game might not be absolute shit...? No new characters, thank god..

I was excited by the idea of Sonic sequels after Sonic 2 on the Megadrive/genesis... Then they release Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, and Sonic Pinball and I lost interest. :(

The later horrors bypassed me completely.

If this new game is as good as Sonic two and the games that came before it (Sonic 1 on the Megadrive/Genesis and Sonic 1 and 2 on the Sega Master System), then I'd like to have a go at it :)

ozoneocean
I was excited by the idea of Sonic sequels after Sonic 2 on the Megadrive/genesis... Then they release Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, and Sonic Pinball and I lost interest. :(

What was wrong with Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles? I thought those were the best of the lot!

Anyway, I'm glad to see Sega going back to their routes with this, but I also worry that they're going to just crap out a game and assume it won't require as much effort if they just do a 2-D sidescroller like everyone wants. That sort of, "well,they're going to buy it no matter how good it is, so we can relax a bit" mentality that, frankly, they've seemed to have for the past ten years. As bad as the new Sonic games have been, every single one of them has sold very well. Maybe not as well as some other games that have come out, but they've all been profit for Sega.

ozoneocean
I was excited by the idea of Sonic sequels after Sonic 2 on the Megadrive/genesis... Then they release Sonic 3, Sonic and Knuckles, and Sonic Pinball and I lost interest. :(

I have fond childhood memories of all three of those games. :(

Inkmonkey
What was wrong with Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles?

Yeah, ozone. Explanations are in order..

The problem I see with this is that the 3D sonic games could have been made enjoyabe pretty easily by just listening to feedback from the players. Instead, they kept making the same mistakes from iteration to iteration util people started to get sick of it. Going back to the original 2D format isn't going to save the franchise. Those games are dated and weren't even that fun back then. The emphasis here seems to be to recapture the exact same feeling as the original games by not introducing anything new to the series, not even characters, enemies or bosses. To me, that just sounds like a rehash of the old games and not really a continuation of the series. Also, it being an "episode 1" and being downloadable does not bode well for its production values or longevity.

Maybe not as well as some other games that have come out, but they've all been profit for Sega.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Sonic the Hedgehog on the PS3 and 360 sold abismally poorly, as did the Wii exclusive games. Unleashed is the only game this generation with decent sales that isn't a crossover with Mario and even that didn't do as well across all platforms as Adventure 2 did on the failing Dreamcast. I'd say Sega is pretty well aware of Sonic's decline, which would explain why they tend to spend their money elsewhere these days.

Bayonetta, Aliens vs Predator, Resonance of Fate, Alpha Protocol, those are the games Sega's betting on, not some dinky DLC remake with a 4 tacked on the end of the title.

isukun
Sonic the Hedgehog on the PS3 and 360 sold abismally poorly, as did the Wii exclusive games. Unleashed is the only game this generation with decent sales that isn't a crossover with Mario and even that didn't do as well across all platforms as Adventure 2 did on the failing Dreamcast. I'd say Sega is pretty well aware of Sonic's decline, which would explain why they tend to spend their money elsewhere these days.

But that's just the thing: They are spending most of their money in other places. From my understanding, the Sonic games tend to have fairly small budgets and development times for such a well-known franchise. I'm not saying that they're making a fortune on every game, just that they make enough money versus the amount of money and effort it has taken to produce the games that they just haven't had any real reason to try anything different.

mishi_hime

Inkmonkey
What was wrong with Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles?

Yeah, ozone. Explanations are in order..

With the choice of Knuckles as well they weakened it. The games themselves were weak- Not as fresh and fun as the first ones, just cash-in squeals with an extra gimmick to try and keep you interesed. Sonic 2 was the best.

New information: The game is not actually being produced by Sonic Team, but rather Dimps, who you may remember as the group that produced Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush. You know... the good Sonic games that have been coming out.

Sonic advance you say? Well then, I still have a little hope left. It really does sounds like they are listening to fans or at least what sells.

ozone
Sonic 2 was the best.

That's the first smart thing youve said today. Knuckles wasn't a waste of time tho. Didn't you have fun plugging the two games together?

mishi_hime
That's the first smart thing youve said today. Knuckles wasn't a waste of time tho. Didn't you have fun plugging the two games together?

Everything I say is smart. Even the stupid stuff. :P
Plugging Sonic 2 and Sonic and Knuckles together was a little fun initially, but it felt too much like using the normal Sonic 2 cheat codes- exploding the normal play through path and just messing around for fun. That got a little bit tried.

I grew up on the Nintendo side of the fence. Until I left home for college, my parents wouldn't get me any more than one console per generation, so I chose the one with Mario/Zelda/Metroid. Because of this, I missed the Sonic games that everyone says are good. I've tried a few of the 3D ones and one of the DS ones. But the result forces me to see a lot of fans who, like beaten spouses, stick to a franchise that continually abuses them... and all because they have the pleasant memories of the better times.... times I missed.

I suppose I should get one of those Sega collections, or the earlier Sonic games for the Wii Virtual Console, and see if Sonic 1 and 2 are really good enough to cause fans to hang on and hope through a decade of garbage.

The DS game Sonic Rush wasn't terrible. But I think it suffered from some flawed game design. But being as it's still one of the better Sonic games to emerge in a long time, I suppose it's a good thing that its developer is the one working on Sonic 4.

I miss the original Mega Drive (Genesis) Sonic games, so I am looking forward to this.

However being episodic, how long are gamers going to want to pay for essentially the same levels with different backgrounds.

Still I;m gonna give it a shot when it comes out.

Now I know I will receive allot of heat for this and my attitude is derived from the fact that I never got a chance to play the old Sonic games as a child but...

That looks exactly like the old games except that the sprites are in 3D now. Why bother buying it if you can just play the old ones? I mean this is just...

Crimsonskystudio
essentially the same levels with different backgrounds.

Yeah, that.

Product Placement
Now I know I will receive allot of heat for this and my attitude is derived from the fact that I never got a chance to play the old Sonic games as a child but...

That looks exactly like the old games except that the sprites are in 3D now. Why bother buying it if you can just play the old ones? I mean this is just...

Crimsonskystudio
essentially the same levels with different backgrounds.

Yeah, that.

I think it's going to be like what New Super Mario Bros. was. It will be the going back to the classic Sonic, but taking advantage of new video game possibilities.

therealtj

Product Placement
Now I know I will receive allot of heat for this and my attitude is derived from the fact that I never got a chance to play the old Sonic games as a child but...

That looks exactly like the old games except that the sprites are in 3D now. Why bother buying it if you can just play the old ones? I mean this is just...

Crimsonskystudio
essentially the same levels with different backgrounds.

Yeah, that.

I think it's going to be like what New Super Mario Bros. was. It will be the going back to the classic Sonic, but taking advantage of new video game possibilities.

To create even better backgrounds on the same levels? :)

YIKES!!!!!

The Sonic debate is heating up... Ok, I've always been a fan of Sonic since the beginning (Sonic 1), but this one is going to worth a look at least.

Sonic 1-3 Knux: Sonic 1 began the basic in platforming with insane amounts of speed. I throughly enjoyed kicking Robotnix's arse. Sonic 2 added Tails and the Spin Dash. That was also very enjoyable and taking a page from Mario and Luigi. Sonic 3 Added Knuckles, gave us new power ups, and eventually gave the makings of a third playable character. Sonic & Knuckles (In essence Sonic 3 Knux) fused Knuckles into preexisting games and with Sonic Three made the most epic story until Sonic Adventure. This was enjoyable to many people and the reply value was good as well.

Sonic 3d Blast and Sonic Spinball: Though cute, I didn't really get intot that kind of mood to tolerate them as much.

Sonic Adventure 1 & 2: Sega made a gamble in the Dreamcast and lost, but they did enjoy having Sonic Adventure be a total sucess. With Amy reintroduced (She was lost in the sauce with the Sega 32X), Alpha and now Big joining the ranks, beatig Eggman and Chaos had new meaning to it. When the SA2 got released, this was the hype: Eggman got Rouge and the infamous Shadow. We all know that Rouge is a tease for Knuckles and Shadow is the Vegeta of the Sonic universe, but that didn't change the fact that the game was indeed one of the better ones to show. That would be the last time we would get an excellent Sonic game.

Sonic Heroes: Though adding Cream and the Chaotix Mystery Team did possess a decent variety, it lacked a charm that the earlier games had. That charm was Style! I can understand that Sonic and Shadow were fast, but when Amy can keep up with Sonic in most of Sonic and Amy's story plots, well, shame.... Also, the leader switching became a total chore.

Sonic Riders (The Entire Arc): I'm a racer as much as the next person but if Sonic R didn't get my approval, what makes you think that Sonic Riders will either. The controls were broken at best, You found yourselves messing with Jet, Sonic, or Shadow at the end of it, and once you beat it, ther missions were downright insane. The second game wasn't any different or for that matter, BETTER! The controls got worse in my opinion and now that Overused Riders list included Blaze.

Sonic the Hedgehog (Also dubbed, Sonic the Disaster), Sonic the the Secret Rings, and Sonic and the Black Knight:

1. The Disaster. Sonic the Disaster was the single most game that almost ended the saga FOR GOOD! The game was tribble, Sonic was uncontrollable, and the fact that EVERYTHING you hit, you died while running, BS!

2. The Secret Rings. Sega still didn't learn and made a sequel to that trash.... Shame.

3. The Black Knight. Picture this, Sonic trades in his speed for a sword. It would of been cool if he kept the speed and incorporated his sword to match his speed, but did Sega listen to us, Nope....


Sonic Rush (All of them): The game added some of Vintage Sonic in there and offered some good variety in the addition of Blaze. Not great, but decent enough to keep Sonic fans interested for a little longer.

Sonic Unleashed: I think this game saved the fans. Though the werehog was odd and a miscast on Sega's part, Sonic's speed and platforming that made Sonic, well Sonic, brought back the prestige of the Blue Speed Demon. Another game to keep the Sonic fans looking forward into the future.


Sonic 4: Note the Episode 1. That should be a clue about that is to happen. Sonic 4 will have multiple episodes to play through and if it returns to the old school style of Sonic with a new look, then look out, we may have a HIT here. We'll have to wait and see.

I don't expect this game to be a hit. I think Sega knows it won't be one, as well, hence the low budget, downloadable route they've chosen this time. Apart from Sonic Unleashed, they really haven't made any money on a Sonic game since the ports of the Adventure series.

The problem is that Sega really doesn't listen to their fans when it comes to Sonic. There are 3D game mechanics that worked for the series, but Sega refused to focus on those elements and instead kept all the garbage to add variety to their games. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if Sega ever wants to have another successful Sonic game, they need to take the formula for the Sonic and Shadow stages in Sonic Adventure 2 and make an entire game around that. No switching characters, no vehicles, no mechs, no fishing, no treasure hunting, just fast-paced platforming. If they can get the camera right, people would be happy with that.

I'll give Sega a- Wait...Download it this summer?!?! Do you mean...XBOX EXCLUSIVE?!?!?! Fuck you,Microsoft! AHHHHHHHHHHHH! *Kills Bill Gates*

An hour later...

*Clears throat* Okay, I don't think it's going to be BETTER than Sonic 3, the most awesome 2D sonic Game Ever, but *sigh* I won't know how it is.

It's a downloadable game, but it's not an Xbox exclusive. The trailer pretty clearly shows the Xbox Live Arcade, Playstation Network, and WiiWare logos at the end, meaning it will be available for all three.

Oh, I didn't see the Wii logo, sorry. *revives Bill Gates*

I still think SA:2 Battle was the last Sonic good game. And sonic R is cursed.

Sonic R had the most hilariously awful music in all of the Sonic franchise. It was great. Though, oddly, the only Sonic racing game where they actually run.

As for Sonic 4, I'm not touching that with a 20 foot pole until I hear several reviews praising it and watching a Let's Play of it. I grew up with the Sonic games, and basically jumped the wagon after playing Shadow the Hedgehog (yeah, I was a little late). Since then, I've seen the horrors of Sonic 2006 and Unleashed. Unleashed didn't even look bad if only they got rid of the werehog stages. The Sonic stages looked like fun and the game had a low amount of annoying characters (Chip was annoying, but at least it was just him and Tails basically).

Hearing that this game isn't made by Sonic Team actually makes me feel happy. Anyone can do a better job at this rate than Sonic Team, which is quite sad to say with the company name and all. Maybe, just maybe, I can play another new Sonic game in this lifetime that's actually enjoyable.

Yu would think, but people weren't too thrilled by the RPG, either, and that was made by Bioware. Maybe there's a curse on the Sonic name, any developer who tries to make a Sonic games suddenly goes stupid.

From my understanding, the reason Sega hasn't focused on a pure-speed Sonic game in so long is because, well... it makes the games awfully short and/or a pain in the ass to program. For example: in Sonic Unleashed, the Werehog levels could often last about 20-30 minutes, especially if you're exploring (which you need to do, in game, because little coins scattered throughout the levels are required to progress through the game). For the speed levels, though, 15 minutes is a pretty long time to get through a level, and even then the level tends to be much larger than the Werehog level from the same point in the game.

I think that's why they're going the downloadable route with this pure-speed focused game. The alternative was what we saw in Sonic and the Secret Rings or Sonic and the Black Knight where, instead of having more levels, they just made you run through the same level multiple times with different goals. I think they know a Sonic 4 could easily be a top-selling title, but it's not financially as safe to spend what would essentially be double or triple previous Sonic game budgets on a full-length retail version. The DLC is basically a safe-bet: they can release the shorter game that the sheer time and processing power of a super-fast Sonic with HD graphics would require, without upsetting fans by charging them the price of a full game.

Whether this is all good or bad, I'm not sure. That's just my thoughts on why they're doing it, not whether or not it's a good idea.

I don't think it's as hard to program as you let on. Hell, four students basically made exactly what I was talking about in 16 months with the game Igneous . I would think Sega could come up with something better and longer without spending a fortune. Plus the speed stages in Sonic can use a lot of repeating elements since things go by so fast. If they used a level structure more like the older platformers where you had three or more stages which used the same textures, but had different layouts, that could reduce production time and costs. Going through the same level multiple times seems to work for Mario, Sega just needs to offer enough variety in the level design so that each playthrough is different.

All I know are the excuses I've heard from game reporters and disgruntled ex-Sonic Team employees. How long does that Igneous game last, anyway?

Long enough. It isn't as long as I'd expect a Sonic game to be, but that's beside the point. They also don't have a full art department and staff behind them, they're just four students making a game in their spare time. I would expect a full team of developers with a professional budget to be able to do better.

Just tried the demo and its good to know the series is still a fucking disaster. I don't want to whine endlessly about how it just feels like a broken game, so I'm just going to say its comparable to Sonic Blast on the Game Gear and let you guys figure it out for yourselves. Don't buy this piece of shit, try the demo first.

Someone
From my understanding, the reason Sega hasn't focused on a pure-speed Sonic game in so long is because, well... it makes the games awfully short and/or a pain in the ass to program.

They were actually about momentum and physics aiding your speed and allowing you to utilize this as a means to platform. In fact most of the reason why the new ones suck is that they're too fast and result in you flying off cliffs and into robots that for some reason have hit points now because arguughhhheverything has to be like an rpg durrrr exp and shops ahbhbhbbbbrrr