Sea_Cow

Warpedwenger

Nobody
shit about me.

Seacow iz kewl guy ok gaiz.

Question mark?

LOL... I wanted to give you a sig.

megan_rose
When I was 15 and just starting to realize I was a lesbian

You make that sound as if it isn't a choice.

Puff_Of_Smoke

megan_rose
When I was 15 and just starting to realize I was a lesbian

You make that sound as if it isn't a choice.

Wow... Do you really think it's appropriate to get into that here?

You make that sound as if it isn't a choice.

It isn't. It's genetics (but that's a conversation for a completely different topic).

My opinion on Yaoi/Yuri is pretty low. Are the people who actually write them or their target audience homosexual because I find most of the material to be offensive. I get offended when black people are portrayed as purple-skinned gnappy headed guys with fish lips and if I were gay I'd be offended if I was portrayed as an effeminate girly-man who was too shy to fall for the big buff bi-curious soccer player. I can understand that these stories are fun and have their own target audience but I won't be surprised if they're frowned upon in the next 10-20 years as homosexuality becomes a more open and respected thing.

angry_black_guy
My opinion on Yaoi/Yuri is pretty low. Are the people who actually write them or their target audience homosexual because I find most of the material to be offensive. I get offended when black people are portrayed as purple-skinned gnappy headed guys with fish lips and if I were gay I'd be offended if I was portrayed as an effeminate girly-man who was too shy to fall for the big buff bi-curious soccer player. I can understand that these stories are fun and have their own target audience but I won't be surprised if they're frowned upon in the next 10-20 years as homosexuality becomes a more open and respected thing.

That's an interesting point.

I'm sure if the typical yaoi/yuri stories and characters had originated in western comics and had been drawn in a western style, there would have been a huge outcry from the gay community about how it stereotyped and misrepresented them. Simply by virtue of coming out of Japan, however, the genre has gathered a degree of acceptance among the gay community that is (to me, at least) quite surprising.

The important thing, however, is that - by virtue of having popularised the subject matter - it has opened the door to more realistic and sensitive portrayals of gay and lesbian relationships (not for the first time, I refer you to Simply Sarah!) and that has to be a good thing.

DAJB
the genre has gathered a degree of acceptance among the gay community that is (to me, at least) quite surprising.

Because it doesn't stereotype, that is to say, them being gay is not some huge deal. He/she is just a normal character that you'd find in manga/web comics all the time that leans towards the same gender in the story. It's never blown out of proportion why they're gay or friends step in and say 'eew gtfo' or anything, you can just read a normal comic with a normal plot who's character happens to be like you. :P

And the western media stereotypes everything, the black community is the only one i've seen to give a huge outcry when it does. Gay people are more upset by how the character is treated then a silly stereotype, simple things like 'gay girl falls for straight girl and is treated badly' is what i mean. There are 'stereotypes' of flamboyantly gay men all over tv yes but...many of them are that way irl >_> (not most though)

So anyways it's all about how we're treated rather than how it's portrayed, not getting offended seeing a black guy with a chicken bucket at kfc who happens to fish for shrimp, and is worried about getting his nike kicks ruined sitting next to a mexican in a sombrero with 8 kids going 'ey ese' to an asain man with 6 calculators calculating their dinner bill.

I agree with you to some extent as far as lesbian comics are concerned but I think angry_black_guy does have a point, especially as regards gay men in manga.

Gay men have been portrayed as simpering, effeminate fops in western media for years and gay men have (quite rightly!) taken offence. Now, with the advent of manga, we have a whole genre of comics portraying gay men as silly, girly stereotypes and yet they're accepted.

Maybe it's because the straight men in so many manga titles are also portrayed as simpering, effeminate dandies.
;-)

Warpedwenger

Puff_Of_Smoke

megan_rose
When I was 15 and just starting to realize I was a lesbian

You make that sound as if it isn't a choice.

Wow... Do you really think it's appropriate to get into that here?

Just saying.

And judging by the 13 post count she likely won't reply. Either that or I may get a PQ. Either way I'm in need of something interesting. I get bored a lot easier lately.

Puff_Of_Smoke
I don't know how to google 'is being gay a choice'

Swell.

scientific approach
short and to the point

Short answer: no it's not a choice, but you can 'choose' to hide it. ;)

Plus saying that gay is a choice can be a bit offensive to people that are,it's a touchy subject since it conjures up thoughts of 'self-indulgent Christians lieing to feel secure' .
I wish christians would start persecuting pedophiles though, then i could find something i like about them. Too bad their churches are full of them.

Skullbie

Puff_Of_Smoke
I don't know how to google 'is being gay a choice'

Swell.

scientific approach
short and to the point

Short answer: no it's not a choice, but you can 'choose' to hide it. ;)

Plus saying that gay is a choice can be a bit offensive to people that are,it's a touchy subject since it conjures up thoughts of 'self-indulgent Christians lieing to feel secure' .
I wish christians would start persecuting pedophiles though, then i could find something i like about them. Too bad their churches are full of them.

Well, maybe if you live in Romania or the United States it isn't a choice... It's a choice everywhere else though. Unless you're in an Islamic or Muslim community. Still a choice, though.

Those places you listed make it sound like being gay or a lesbian is a birth defect. You make it sound like being gay or a lesbian is a birth defect.

Why does everybody think that if a scientist said it was one way just because he/she used not-even-accurate methods to deduce his/her way that it has to be true? Science is extremely flaky. If we base everything on science then no wonder society is crumbling. Mostly all science is random grasps in a proverbial dark room and explanations that make sense but probably aren't true.

Puff_Of_Smoke
Well, maybe if you live in Romania or the United States it isn't a choice... It's a choice everywhere else though. Unless you're in an Islamic or Muslim community. Still a choice, though.

Those places you listed make it sound like being gay or a lesbian is a birth defect. You make it sound like being gay or a lesbian is a birth defect.

Uh, so if you're not living in a free spirited country you can't have gay people at all? What crazy logic is that, they're all human beings :dizzy:
Again like i and those articles said; You can choose to hide the fact you are gay from everyone else, that doesn't mean the person isn't thinking about the same sex- often quite the opposite when being repressed.

Being gay might have something to do with what happens in the womb yeah, but no one knows for sure right now. It's a serious subject to many(including myself) and like when it's treated that way, i didn't see those articles as negative like that, it's just a serious topic.

To your edit: I trust science more than i'll ever trust blind faith, it's those stumbling mistakes in that dark room that has cured diseases, mental problems and other things that were condemned long ago as unfit for society. Those explanations are called 'theorys', and you're right they aren't always true, but they get us one step closer to the truth with each one. That's what science is all about, proof and truth over blind acceptance.

True we can cure certain diseases but we can't cure any of the important ones.

Science is a blind faith, by the way.

Wow - has this thread gone off topic!

@ Puff_Of_Smoke: I think you and Skullbie may be talking at cross purposes here. There are people who make a choice to dabble in relationships with people of the same sex. Some just want to experiment, others have maybe become jaded and are just looking for new experiences. For those people, as you say, it's a choice. They are not, however, really gay or lesbian.

For someone who is, being physically and romantically attracted to people of the same sex is just a natural part of their make-up. They don't choose to be gay or lesbian, any more than you "choose" to be attracted to people of the opposite sex. It's just a genetic fact in the same way that we don't "choose" to be right- or left-handed.

I suggest this thread should get back to discussing manga now!

Good luck I told them they were off topic like years ago.

Manga is like sprite comics, there's too much.

Puff_Of_Smoke
Manga is like sprite comics, there's too much.

No it's way different because sprite comics are lame.

Warpedwenger

Puff_Of_Smoke
Manga is like sprite comics, there's too much.

sprite comics are lame.

And so is manga.

;o; This forum topic really scares me.

It's like, just cause I draw yaoi that is somewhat diffrenet that, I'm going to be hit all over. But I also draw Hentai, so am I going to be hit for that too?

I feel like, DrunkDuck please don't become a mean place, or I feel like just cause I draw yaoi/yuri a lot that you're going to punch me all over the face.

I-I'm scared.

;o;

ARE PEOPLE JUST GOING TO COME OUT OF NOWHERE AND PUNCH ME IN THE FACE FOR BEING MYSELF?!?!!?!?!?!?

AHHHH GOD WHY.

Skullbie

Puff_Of_Smoke
Well, maybe if you live in Romania or the United States it isn't a choice... It's a choice everywhere else though. Unless you're in an Islamic or Muslim community. Still a choice, though.

Those places you listed make it sound like being gay or a lesbian is a birth defect. You make it sound like being gay or a lesbian is a birth defect.

Uh, so if you're not living in a free spirited country you can't have gay people at all? What crazy logic is that, they're all human beings :dizzy:
Again like i and those articles said; You can choose to hide the fact you are gay from everyone else, that doesn't mean the person isn't thinking about the same sex- often quite the opposite when being repressed.

Being gay might have something to do with what happens in the womb yeah, but no one knows for sure right now. It's a serious subject to many(including myself) and like when it's treated that way, i didn't see those articles as negative like that, it's just a serious topic.

To your edit: I trust science more than i'll ever trust blind faith, it's those stumbling mistakes in that dark room that has cured diseases, mental problems and other things that were condemned long ago as unfit for society. Those explanations are called 'theorys', and you're right they aren't always true, but they get us one step closer to the truth with each one. That's what science is all about, proof and truth over blind acceptance.

I agree with Skully and I think you should...I know this sounds mean but...you should go fuck yourself Puff of Smoke, innogrance only makes us seperate, and seprate all of us will die. :'C

Puff_Of_Smoke
I want to derail a decent thread because 'i get bored easily'

Yeah I miss TD too.
I think any of your topics would be good in the debate and discussion forum though, especially the science one.

DAJB
Now, with the advent of manga, we have a whole genre of comics portraying gay men as silly, girly stereotypes and yet they're accepted.

Maybe it's because the straight men in so many manga titles are also portrayed as simpering, effeminate dandies.
;-)

I'm wondering if this has something to do with the fanbase lol! Yaoi lovers are overwhelmingly female, and having a boy main character gets rid of all the taboos with girl characters; they can be sexualized, hurt, make snarky comments and be pissy/arrogant without the female readers getting offended.
Male/male rape also seems to be pretty popular on smackjeeves, if this was female/male rape you'd have a big uproar of protests from the fans, but instead it receives 'hawt' and 'omg moar! ^_^' attitudes. That's where i get the 'taboo is lifted' idea from.

My take on yaoi/yuri is...

it's a good one if im reading it, and i get so into the characters and their saga that i totally forget that they are both guys or both girls.

To be quite honest im tired of yaoi/yuri being advertised just for the fact that its yaoi/yuri. tell a good story, and the fact that you have two dudes humping each other wont matter. It's sort of like when comics first started having black superheroes. If you go "READ THIS BECAUSE THE SUPERHERO IS BLACK!" then the novelty will wear off fast. But if you (lo and behold!) tell a good story, then no one is going to care if the black panther is black or not, because its a damn good read and hes a damn good character.

now am i saying that you are supposed to ignore the fact that its yaoi/yuri? by all means, no, when you have characters that are ostracized it can lead to some very good dialogue and plotting (see the New Avengers issue where luke cage is attacked in his apartment). All i mean is, being homosexual is not a novelty or a reason to read a webcomic. good story/art is. that's all i care about.

Puff_Of_Smoke

megan_rose
When I was 15 and just starting to realize I was a lesbian

You make that sound as if it isn't a choice.

oh man....you made me laugh so hard.

Autobiographical

Oh my god. I sooo laughed out loud on that one. That's one habit I used to have when I was younger. I would always do yuri comics with the main character based off of me. Eventually, I got tired of it and started thinking outside the box. I realized how shitty those old comics are and decided to break all clichés and generic things about yuri. Which I'm actually planning to do with my comic but yeaaah~ You know, BUGS. xD

I primarily want to show that there are more to the yuri genre since it's usually mocked as a very poor and boring genre (by most younger yaoi fangirls *coughcoughnooffensecough*). I'm just so tired of hearing this stuffs about my favorite genre so I went on ahead with this comic. Hopefully I would achieve my goal here in Drunkduck where most people are open-minded on these kinds of things.


I guess the reason why some artists' works (the ones with lesbian authors etc) are somehow connected to them is because they needed an outlet to express the bottled up feelings concerning their sexuality. I can't blame them for creating works that is somehow similar to them or their lives. After all, we're all connected to our creations in one way or another, amirite? 8D

Everyone have their own preferences and that's probably another reason why some straight people are also interested in homosexuality in comics. It's strange, new and it reaches out to them. It shows that homosexuality in general is not just about porn. It also makes them see that gay people in general are just like straight people. And that the only difference is that they happened to fall in love with someone of their own kind.

Like Skullbie said, all genres have their own generic faults. It's up to the artist whether they'll stick to the cliché or break the rules.

Or maybe there are some authors that simply write about what's interesting to them, and for lesbian authors, it's the interactions between women? (And they occasionally have to forcibly remind themselves that not everyone in a given setting needs to be a lesbian, and ... whoops, guess that means I have to add some fleshed-out male characters too ... :nervous: )

I mean, maybe not every who draws yuri has bottled their feelings up in real life, any more than people who draw comics with straight characters are dealing with their bottled-up straight-feelings. (I'm not sure that made any more sense than the top part. Apparently, it is too early in the morning for me to be typing. :P Sorry.)

CateranLlama
Or maybe there are some authors that simply write about what's interesting to them, and for lesbian authors, it's the interactions between women? (And they occasionally have to forcibly remind themselves that not everyone in a given setting needs to be a lesbian, and ... whoops, guess that means I have to add some fleshed-out male characters too ... :nervous: )

I mean, maybe not every who draws yuri has bottled their feelings up in real life, any more than people who draw comics with straight characters are dealing with their bottled-up straight-feelings. (I'm not sure that made any more sense than the top part. Apparently, it is too early in the morning for me to be typing. :P Sorry.)

Well, it's not like straight people have to 'bottle up' their own sexuality anyway. I mean, is there a heterophobe out there? :)

Yeah, not all authors are the same. Everyone has their own take in their own stories. And it just happened that lesbian authors would of course draw yuri, just as a straight girl would draw hetero (or yaoi) because that's what's interesting to them. ( Apparently it is too late for me to be typing :P sorry. )

Oh man I'll jump right in.

DAJB
Gay men have been portrayed as simpering, effeminate fops in western media for years and gay men have (quite rightly!)

I heard something about an anti-feminine gay men movement that has encourages macho relationships and something related to cowboys.

I think that I find yuri and yaoi comics more interesting/entertaining when it is created by someone who is lesbian/gay.

I seen a lot of yaoi comics and the ones that are done by non-gay girls pretty much have the skinny boys that have the mind of a little girl. It's not that believable.

Now yaoi comics made by gay guys actually put in humor and the characters really act like men in love with not as much of a aggressive-passive relationship. The only example I would have was The Ass Kickers ,but he took the comic down from DD.


The yuri comics done by gay women aren't bad too. Lesbian Pirates FOS is pretty good. It's rude. It's showy but it doesn't feel as fan-servicey as the other Yuri comics made by men.