I'm realizing this is a great community for comics and it's also an aggressive one.
So please do not get upset when I ask this question. I just didn't want to bring up any older threads.

There seems to be a pleathora of them here @ Drunk Duck. I know what they are, I just want to understand how there came to be so many. If you're a yaoi/yuri creator, please explain the rationale because from what I'm seeing in some of the comics I've read, the storylines usually involve one of the three:

A ) An us-against-the-world forbidden love story with never-ending challenges for the protagonists.

B ) Just a couple of characters frequently making out or having sex with each other.

OR C ) One gay, one curious and it seems the curious one is trying their hardest in each edition to conceal their lifestyle.

I think I'm curious to find out if all of you yaoi/yuri creators are writing autobiographies. Like, how many of you are actually living "the lifestyle" and how many of you are telling the stories from a strictly straight/fetish perspective.

Do you feel you're doing a comic of this genre to educate and promote awareness? Tolerance? Are these questions too deep?

I've got at least one comic that's growing on me, I hope she'll chime in on this one XP~~~coughPlasticcough~~~~.

One of the most common problems I notice about yaoi/yuri comic is that the storylines are usually recycled. More likely due to the artists' over indulgence of same-sex fantasy than bothering much about the storyline. Much like a guy likes to watch two hot girls doing mud wrestling and likewise a girl likes seeing two hot guys being gentle to each other. Most artists fall into this trap: when you're excited at drawing two same-sex characters making out, who gives a dang about storyline as long as I enjoy what I draw/see.

Not to say that all yaoi/yuri artists are just like that but there are exceptions.

KayleeVersus
There seems to be a pleathora of them here @ Drunk Duck.

Not really. Smack Jeeves is apparently the mecha for that. ;)

Do you mean comics with a general homosexual theme, or Japanese influenced ones specifically? Because DD tends to have just as many American and European style comics that have strong homosexual themes. As a group though, it's a minority.
-----------------------

Eunice P addresses your question best I think :)

Someone
I've got at least one comic that's growing on me, I hope she'll chime in on this one by writing a wall of text essay on it

Why...yes. Thank you, don't mind if it do:

;)

Why (i think)there's so many:
When you're gay, struggling with being gay, loving being gay etc, it's really nice to have something you can relate to. There's not much content in the media now or even the web itself (unless you like the kinda sites i do) Webcomics have always been pretty open to it- and with it being so easy to make one a lot do when they find the current ones to be lacking.

But me personally i did it to raise awareness yeah, and i like the genre in general.



Also to have a little fun with this i want to add in on the 'recycled plot' devices i've seen :P
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Typical yuri plots:
Thesedon't matter if the comic has good art or well execution, i read many comics with 'recycled' plots as Eunice said and i really enjoy them, but here goes my bashing of my own beloved genre!:

Ultra Perfect girl falls for ultra average girl:
She got top grades, flowing hair, a rich family, sparklies follow her every move with and a soft-spoken personality to boot- oh and the average boring main character picked up her hanky one day-LUVE TIME. They then continually exchange uninspired dilo Oh and instead of giving her a flaw to her personality they make sure she was raped by MEN!! These types are written by pre-teens typically.

I hate you so much date me
The girls literally want to claw eachothers eyes out, they screamed at eachother the first meeting (usually for no such reason) and continue to fight throughout the comic. These comic rarely lasts 16 pages since the artist usually quits, but my guess is something dramatic happens and they like eachother.

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Yaoi Webcomics cliches
I was a rabid yaoi fangirl a few years back, then i started liking girls. This makes no sense.
Anyways Since there's waaaaay to many of the things to keep a sane list i'm gonna combine them all into one plot- So please enjoy Skullbie's yaoi romance: '"oshiwari ga miteru desu waka ne yaoi"


Begin the story of "oshiwari ga miteru desu waka ne yaoi":
The beginning and characters:
Meet main character, he looks exactly like a girl and acts like the world is against him. He' has nothing nice to say about anyone but his clothes. Also his neighbor raped him we get a graphic flashback of that after 4 pages- lol rape!!! So he's being a pissy girl at school, then he bumps into the broad awsum chest of the bishounen seme! This leads to either:
1. i hate you omg f%&*# love me
2. some bubbly shoujo scene where they fall in love despite the fact that the bishounen could get any guy/girl in the school.
3. An original plot device*

*yeh rite

you have a finance!? And she's female? EW
So our emo uke and cool seme are just getting heavy (by asking eachother out and angsting whoa) All is well, Until the seme has a fiancee?! And she's a girl?! And she's a complete bitch, clingy, and hates our main character-LIKE ALL WOMINZ R? Whoa intense.

Chibify everything
since the comic is yaoi putting effort into the art is the most retarded idea fans are flocking in after all. be sure to have a chibi panel at LEAST everything other panel. Fill it with dialog like 'lol' and 'omg' and 'blah blah'.

Incest is wincest
So the seme has a hot twin brother! wait he's just an older brother the art makes everyone look the same nvm. Anyways like any sane brother he wants to have xXx with his own brother. This is the natural order of things.

Sex
So the heavy thrilling plot storyboard on the napkin has run out- past some torsos covered in sweat in those panels and we're good to go.Remember to mention the main character was raped so you don't have to draw them....y'know. lol weiner.
Remember not to use any lubricant because gays are allergic to lubricant.

quit time
So you collected all 2000 fans on smackjeeves and don't know what to do with the plot holes eh? Welp upload yet another filler art and never return again. That easy.

* "oshiwari ga miteru desu waka ne yaoi" goes on haitus with a 2 fans begging for updates everynow and then for years to come despite 5000 other yaoi comics flooding in*

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So as you can see i'm a little too into this- bad for my health so. And i'm quite sure there are comics that break the mold of all this and have good art to boot- I mean this all in good humor just so you know ;)

ozoneocean
Not really. Smack Jeeves is apparently the mecha for that.

I'd agree with O.O. on that. I only started visiting SJ recently and it seems to me that the manga-styled yaoi/yuri comics have pretty much taken over the asylum over there.

DD also has its share of yaoi/yuri comics, of course, but I have found there is considerably more variety in the comics here - in terms of genre, art style, and subject matter.

KayleeVersus
I just want to understand how there came to be so many.

Some creators are undoubtedly trying to work through issues in their own lives but, in many cases, I suspect it's more a case of people imitating the comics they like and are familiar with.

When I were but knee-high to a spinner-rack, the comics most readily available in the UK were jokey comics like The Beano and The Dandy (essentially anthologies of one-page humour strips) and the occasional US super hero comic. As a result, the first attempts at making our own comics back in those dark and distant days were similar one-page gag-strips or derivative super hero fare.

If you look in any book shop today, it's clear that the most readily available type of comic book just now is the B&W manga-styled comic aimed at teenage girls with lots of cute chibis, romance (incl yuri/yaoi), wacky situations and - because of the digest size of the books - very few images per page. Having grown up reading that type of comic, it's natural that the current batch of new creators making their own comics for the first time will try to imitate that style of comic, just as my generation imitated Superman, Batman, Little Plum and Korky the Cat.

Aah, happy days!

DAJB
just as my generation imitated Superman, Batman, Little Plum and Korky the Cat.

Tank girl, Judge Dredd, Ghost in the Shell, Druuna... ^___^

Thanks gentlemen and especially Eunice P and Skullbie, XD!

So would you say more "straight" people are writing these comics than those who can relate or are living the lifestyle? In fact, is it easy to tell?

I mean, I live in Los Angeles. The state of California is pretty much wide open to homosexuality. Even in TV shows (particularly reality TV, BRAVO anyone?)

Hey Skullbie, I think you may have given someone the idea to do a parody on yaoi/yuri. If they do it right, it just might be a mockingly, funny tale.

Straight female authors tend to write yaois i've seen- And i mean very straight, so much so that they hate women. (but the majority all seem to become bisexual or lesbian later...it's weird) And with the yuri you'll find say....65% of them are drawn by women and 35% by men. The female percentage is growing recently-
(if my math didn't match up i'm sorry)

Comics with lesbians created by men:
The lounge
Girly
Flipside
*misfile(is this lesbian? uh...)
otenba files
april and may/penny tribute



Comics with lesbians created by women:
yu+me/les pirates
heard
simply sarah
khaos
plastic
juxtapose
stitches
hold me tight
blue/friction
taiki
starcrossed


These aren't even the half of them though http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/comics.php?cat=genre-sja [onlinecomics.net]
And um, I don't know what the sexuality of any of these people are, but i think if you're a girl writing a yuri well...lol!

what's with all these comics and straight people....

I don't know why they're popular...It's weird know because if you were to tell someone about a comic book with a gay couple most people would think it was a porno or something

Ziffy88
I don't know why they're popular...It's weird know because if you were to tell someone about a comic book with a gay couple most people would think it was a porno or something

And porn is very unpopular. Especially on the internet.

Skullbie
*misfile(is this lesbian? uh...)

Not lesbian at all in my opinion. Misfile is a bit hard to categorize, but if anything I guess I'd put it in the transgendered category, but as I said, I find it kinda tough to put into any category. Manga\fantasy\drama\comedy\romance(?), trying to explain Misfile is tough sometimes. :P

usedbooks
And porn is very unpopular. Especially on the internet.

It is??? ~minimizes her browser~

Thanks again, Skullbie. Those statistics are interesting. I've read Simply Sarah. The art is great but I'm not sure I could get into that sort of sexuality driven plot (Makes "Sarah" not seem too "Simple" at all) in fact, their relationship seems complicated. Simply Sarah has a great deal of fans though, so its reaching out to someone XD.

Straight girls who write yaoi? What's up with that? Feminizing guys to be with stronger, masculine men who are straight? That's a head scratcher for sure. I mean, if there is such a demand in our society have "acceptance" for the gay lifestyle, why isn't there acceptance on their end when someone is straight?

And it's sad what Ziffy88 said too. Why does having a gay comic mean that it automatically leads to pornography? Is it that the people making yaoi truly have a fetish? Or do some of the yaoi writers really like to see two guys "doing" each other?

Still trying to get an understanding of your comic, Skullbie. I'm sure you've come to the dilemma yourself that you can only blackmail someone for so long over their sexuality. Yaoi/yuri comics, no matter how popular, all have that dilemma in their storytelling timelines. Straight or gay, it's crazy to think there will be a "happily ever after". Do you know how your comic will end?

KayleeVersus
And it's sad what Ziffy88 said too. Why does having a gay comic mean that it automatically leads to pornography? Is it that the people making yaoi truly have a fetish? Or do some of the yaoi writers really like to see two guys "doing" each other?

Good question, maybe it's because of the focus on sexuality? There can be gay plot devices without it seeming like porn in other genres, but when you have a comic dedicated entirely to it, it's a bit different.

I don't really believe that myself though. Rather, I think that people, readers and creators, see the potential for it to be porn and assume it has to be, whether it's true or not.

KayleeVersus
I've read Simply Sarah. The art is great but I'm not sure I could get into that sort of sexuality driven plot (Makes "Sarah" not seem too "Simple" at all) in fact, their relationship seems complicated. Simply Sarah has a great deal of fans though, so its reaching out to someone XD.

Yup - it's reaching out to me (straight guy, married with two big straight and hairy offspring!) for one!

I love the honesty of it, and the fact that - like Brokeback Mountain, perhaps - the heart of the story is the relationship between the characters. There's no sensationalism, no wacky adventures, no titillation ... just a love story between two people who, in this case, both happen to be female. You could pretty much write the same story with both characters male or with a male and female straight couple and - although some of the hiccups they face would have to be changed slightly - the core of the story would still work. Although the characters are lesbian, first and foremost it's just a simple love story. And, yes, it's beautifully drawn, too!

KayleeVersus
Straight girls who write yaoi? What's up with that?

Hmmm - isn't this really just the same as straight guys being fascinated by lesbians? I mean, you know ... not that they are but if they were ...! ;-) I'm sure the vast quantities of lesbian porn on the net can't all be aimed at female readers ...!

KayleeVersus

usedbooks
And porn is very unpopular. Especially on the internet.

It is??? ~minimizes her browser~

i think she was being sarcastic on that one. and people tend to forget sarcasm doesn't really work well on the internets.

the usual double standard
If Captain Kirk makes out with the Green Girl of the Episode, is that porn or part of the storyline?
If Captain Dante makes out with the Green Guy of the Episode and doesn't do anything more on camera than what Captain Kirk did, does that make it porn or part of the storyline?

As usual. If straight people are doing it, it's accepted like a fish ignores water, but make it gay....

A ) An us-against-the-world forbidden love story with never-ending challenges for the protagonists.
With straight characters, this is "Pushing Daisies", "Ally McBeal", or "Buffy", etc.

B ) Just a couple of characters frequently making out or having sex with each other.
With straight characters, this is any day time soap.

OR C ) One straight, one attracted and it seems the attracted one is trying their hardest in each edition to conceal their lifestyle.
Hummm, A little harder but how about Beauty and the Geek or what it's called.

I think that Yaoi/Yuri is mostly just really badly written.

freefall_drift
I think that Yaoi/Yuri is mostly just really badly written.

Same can be said for Every genre has this though, i'm sure vampire, het, furry, gamer comics, sprite and every other genre fan woes at the sheer amount of awfulness there is compared to the few good ones. lol!

freefall_drift
As usual. If straight people are doing it, it's accepted like a fish ignores water, but make it gay...

As a generalisation you have a point, but Buffy is a bad example. I'd say the most stable and least problem-ridden relationship in the show was the lesbian relationship between Willow and Tara. Especially considering the show's target audience and early evening time slot, it was treated it in a very mature way - i.e. exactly the same way it would have treated a heterosexual relationship.

Skullbie

freefall_drift
I think that Yaoi/Yuri is mostly just really badly written.

Same can be said for Every genre has this though, i'm sure vampire, het, furry, gamer comics, sprite and every other genre fan woes at the sheer amount of awfulness there is compared to the few good ones. lol!

Yes, but Yaoi/Yuri seems to suffer more than usual.

So do the others you listed, oddly enough.

I think it depends on what audience the creator is trying to reach or his/her motivations behind making the comic.

Does he or she have a story to tell, and that story just happens to center around a same-sex couple? Then it's probably going to be a great comic! If he or she is just trying to appeal to the rapid fans who gobble up ANYTHING yaoi or yuri, then it's probably not going to be very good ^.^

The really good ones have universal appeal, regardless of the gender arrangement of the relationship. Notable DD examples would be Simply Sarah and Plastic.

Although I can't really relate to yuri/yaoi yarns, I think that the question here (why yuri/yaoi tends to come across more like porn than usual) is not in the subject matter (same sex couples). I think it is in the motive behind the creation of such a thing.

Like in heterosexual yarns created with the same motive, any story that revolves around the sexual activity of any couple will inadvertedly end up including scenes and employing plot devices that present and examine this sexual activity a lot- hence the taste of porn in the story.

If, however, the story does NOT revolve around the actual sexual activity (not the relationship between the personalities, but the actual act) and does include other problems/ issues that occur in life (nobody has JUST love problems or relationship problems), then this taste of porn evaporates.

There's no double standard in that. ;)

Hai I would like to see sum links the comics that have pron in them since i've found maybe 5 in my time reading them , for educational purposes.
Gee my friend sure is perv, good thing i'm not like that, but what comics were you guys talking about...?

I have been drawing gay comics for... holy crap, 7 years?! Here is my tale...

When I was 15 and just starting to realize I was a lesbian, I started drawing comics to help me deal with this. But I just couldn't draw lesbians, it was still too confusing, so I switched the genders of of everyone and turned it into gay-boy romance. It was the typical "Adam likes Steve but it appears Steve has a girlfriend. So Adam pines for him until he can't stand it anymore, tells Steve he loves him and Steve reveals that the girl hanging around him wasn't a girlfriend, but just a friend and Steve totally loves Adam back! Then Adam comes out to his father, gets kicked out of the house, and goes to stay with Steve, a high schooler who conveniently lives on his own. But in the end, they convince Adam's dad not to be so homophobic. Happy ending!"

Then I did another one with gay boys. I had your typical "boy dresses as a girl for whatever reason, meets another boy, they fall in love, then cross-dressing boy has to figure out how to tell his new boyfriend that he's actually a dude. But -le gasp- it turns out he knew all along! Isn't that great?!"

My gay-boy comics were fun to do, and actually the second one didn't focus so much on the relationship of the characters. It was actually the secondary plot, the main plot revolving around the cross-dressing boy (Setsuna) being an idol singer (another overused manga plot, but hey, I was 16), and being blackmailed into pretending to be a woman because his manager is insane. It's too complicated to explain well, but anyways, there was more to the story than two boys falling in love.

I think that's what makes a gay story fun for straight readers: having something other than the romance. Have plotlines that don't involve the relationship. Have other interesting characters.

My other webcomic, YU+ME (which isn't on Drunk Duck, but on my own site) has been going for 4 years. It also started as a way to deal with events in my own life, but it started getting really good when I focused on things other than the relationship between the two girls. I had a mystery going on with a mysterious person who kept calling the main character's house, and events revolving around the death of her mother.

And then, I Was Kidnapped By Lesbian Pirates From Outer Space!!! came along. This is 0% based on my own life. Perhaps because it's an over-the-top parody, it might be different than your everyday lesbian drama, but I don't really have any of the us-against-the-world, just-a-couple-characters-making-out-all-the-time, or trying-to-conceal-theier-lifestyle stuff. Susie has to figure out she's a lesbian, and she gets all upset about it, but it's humorous. And then, she figures it out, end of story.

Like I tell people, yes they're lesbians, but they're also pirates, and from outer space, so while some plots revolve around them being lesbians, still more revolve around them being from outer space, and their piratical ways.

You know, I'm just glad that now there's more Yuri and less Yaoi. There was a time when I swore I would kill myself the next time I saw a thumbnail with two shirtless anime guys kissing. It's not homophobia, it's just that it got old, like a sprite comic about SUPAR SAIYAN DEMON HEDGEHOG LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL. Yaoi didn't get on my nerves nearly as fast as that, of course.

The answer is simple... Internet audiences for the most part are very liberal. That's the reason so many web comics have homosexual themes. I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing. I'm just saying this is the answer to your question.

here's a plot for you:

Write a comic that is yaoi... and focuses on the satanic ritual sexual abuse of a mind-controlled robotic slave. Who was a kid that was abducted when he/she was young... either from some 3rd world country or from a broken family with a drug sniffing mom and/or dad... or maybe he/she was a failed abortion... who just feels so worthless that he/she just wanna wish she/he would just die and basically every line of the comic is about him/her whining about how shitty life is.

And then... an apparent "savior" comes along.

Then the kid (all the way through man/womanhood) then gets abused at the hands of an abusive authority figure (could be a judge, a teacher, a parent, a politician, a police officer, or simply the bully in the schoolyard).

How you're gonna end it is one big question mark. Will the pedophilic satanic scumbags get whats coming to them? Or will they get away with it?

That's gonna be hardcore rated A (as in adult)

LOL! If you made that into a movie it would totally get an oscar!

Warpedwenger
LOL! If you made that into a movie it would totally get an oscar!

You know, if Sweeney Todd got one, anything can.

Nobody
shit about me.

Seacow iz kewl guy ok gaiz.

Warpedwenger

Nobody
shit about me.

Seacow iz kewl guy ok gaiz.

Question mark?