Ozone posted a picture of a talking penis in another thread satirizing the growing attitude that webcomics since have 'professionals' now, there's no more need for amateur artists to make them.

But it kind of got me thinking of whether this is a good or bad thing...so i thought of some possible pros and cons:

PROs:
-Bring in more readers
-Webcomics get better artists and stories from people with experience
-Possibly growth to new possibilities, webcomics getting movie deals, etc
-Possible recognition for online artists outside of personal effort
-Possible insane popularity 'boom' like print comics had in the 90's

CONs:
-A stigma that only webcomics by pros are worth reading, kind of like how the Eisner's/harvey nominates zuda/comics by industry professionals for the majority.
-More comics that read dryly like a marvel/dc book, something webcomics have done a great job at getting away from (teen-friendly, raunchy humor, actually funny, fetish niches, etc)
-Popularity boom could only effect the 'top' comics and all the new comics with potential could be pushed down.

I think freakangels and this comic are a good examples of what i mean by 'dry' though, they're both gorgeous but lack the straight out 'fun' and entertainment value of other webcomics(for me at least, to each their own)
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This is all just speculation though, what are your thoughts? Any pros/cons to add?

I think it's a necessary and inevitable step. When the market is saturated, naturally, people will look for ways to stand out. And being 'professional' looking is only one of the ways.

I also don't think its implications are so black and white. Just because it is looking more and more 'professional', doesn't mean that the webcomic industry will be like marvel/dc. Print comic industry has only become like marvel/dc for waaay more reasons and different reasons than simply looking 'professional'. The Japanese comic industry on the other hand, has much that is 'professional' looking as well as a huge diversity of comics that are "teen-friendly, raunchy humor, actually funny, fetish niches, etc". The first and foremost reason is the competitiveness of the market. There's no dominating giants like Marvel and DC. True and healthy competition will drive innovation and diversity of work. As long as webcomics have that, it should be fine.

Btw, the two comics you have posted up do look amazing.

I don't really care what the overall state of webcomics is.
I know the comics I like to read and I think my comic is pretty good...the opinions of the chattering folk on a forum are not really a problem as long as I continue to acquire readers.

My favourite comics (MS Paint adventures, Order of the Stick, Goblins) all started very amatuerish and got better, so that is what I expect in webcomics.
I dont feel my expectations are chaging drastically.

One of the reasons why some of us started to read webcomics in the first place was because they presented new stories and different aproaches than printed comics... That and because are free...

In one hand, the fact that pros are starting to do webcomics means more recongnition to the media, a wider selection of top quality stories and some of the advantages of both worlds.

I really don't see this taking out the smaller comics... OF course it would be a little bit harder to keep up with some bigger names, but the good thing is that the Web is big enough for everybody...

What's pro tho about any webcomic? There are more webcomics than are are people who read them... Could it ever be possible for a webcomic to make any real money EVER?

Skullbie
-Possible insane popularity 'boom' like print comics had in the 90's

I don't think so. You can't have holofoil covers on the internet :D

My first contact with webcomics was through Sinfest. Early strips, while nowhere near as good as the current ones, were already of a much better quality than majority of newspaper strips. Oh, and they were consistently funny.

The question makes me wonder though... will the next "Bone" (or the next "Cerebus" or whatever) be published as a webcomic rather than as a self-published comic? If yes, then that'd be the good side of webcomics going more "pro".

On the other hand there's NO ONE who can stop you from doing a webcomic, regardless the level of quality. Free webcomic hosts, cheap hosting, scripts geared for setting up webcomic sites... options aplenty! :D

I guess the more amateurish comics will be pushed deeper into obscurity, but can still survive due to low cost (even paying for your own hosting and spending cash on ads comes out way cheaper than printing up a comic to be distributed through Diamond). So right now I don't see much of a problem.
...Other than getting good enough myself to hop into the "pro" category. :)

What is "pro"?

It is "professional", i.e. making money off of your comics. And not just a few dollars from PW ads either. It's making enough money to live on.

It is stupidly hard to profit enough from a webcomic to pay rent and buy a car. Anyone who is that good, that "professional", will not be drawing a webcomic that is free for you to read.

What is the biggest definition of webcomics that we webcomic readers care about? It is free to read. Very few professionals can make it that far.

Therefore, as long as we have Net Neutrality, amateur webcomics will never be squeezed out.

I think I'd be happy enough having either a homepage feature or a DD award on here to be honest.

Maybe a finalist in RSOM.

Any more than that would be unrealistic, but still awesome beyond belief if it happened.


I think pros will harm the "industry" more than help it. But they can't help let out their creative juices, too.

And anyway, just because things are amateur to start off with doesn't mean they can't improve and eventually get the notice of the general webcomic-reading section of the public. Technically any webcomic could become mainstream in the next decade or so as more and more people become aware of the variety and freedom available and take an interest in them.

mlai
What is "pro"?

I meant people that do comics for a living coming to the web, i.e. warren ellis, karl kerschl and scott mccloud. All three have reputations in the 'world' of print comics and their webcomics do bring in quite a bit of extra money. (merch and books)

Zuda is the same, those creators get money for just getting in and even more for winning, high moon is the best example for getting quite a bit of prestige.

So yes, professionals can and do draw webcomics that are free for people to read, and i can see the success of the 'pros' comics right now drawing more in.

Huh. I'm pretty sure 'need' doesn't ever fit into the scenario here. Seems to me a lot of webcomics are made by said amateurs because they 'want' to. Just like people don't need to look at them, but many want to. The whole professionalism thing sounds like so much net elitism.

Warpedwenger
What's pro tho about any webcomic? There are more webcomics than are are people who read them... Could it ever be possible for a webcomic to make any real money EVER?

The short answer as far as people making money on their webcomic is, "yes, they can."
We already have comics like Questionable Content that allow the creator to get by on the comic and its associated merch. Megatokyo's like that too-- I'm not sure it still is but I know it used to be. Webcomics are like all comics in the sense that there's just not a huge amount of money to be made, some of them pay off big and others don't pay at all.
I like seeing people make comics for the expressed purpose of telling a story, not so much making money. So the idea of more "professionals" in webcomics could be a good trend or bad. On the good side you might get some really polished-looking creative and well-told stories. On the bad you might also see people trying to cash in by aping what has already worked and sold ads and sold merch.
I suppose it's easiest to say that an influx or more professional creators could just as easily lead to a webcomics renaissance or dark age.

Ya sure Penny Arcade is making money you can point to a handful of successful webcomics in the endless sea of obscure ones.

Exactly. How many webcomics truly earn a living for their professional authors? Can said authors earn more money working at Home Depot? You can probably count the number of comics on on 1 hand. Or 2. I remain skeptical that the webcomic environment is a reliable path for professionals. Smells like the dot-coms to me.

Anyways I suppose Zuda etc, is helping webcomics become more professional... But if I want to read webcomics that read like print comics... I can read the tons of scanlation mangas available online, which I'm doing right now.

Lastly, something tells me when a print comics professional draws/writes a webcomic, it's for the purpose of hyping/supplementing their print titles. Newsflash, I don't care about your print titles.

List of self-sufficient webcomics [en.wikipedia.org]

Some of these through merchandise (tshirts in case of Diesel Sweeties), some through print editions (Girl Genius I believe?), others from ads. American Elf used to be subscription based and now it's free (I guess the kids/all-ages books Kochalka does for Top Shelf sell fairly well).

There's probably a bunch more.

I know, compared to tens of thousands of webcomics that's not much. But... webcomics have less barriers. For every good submission Image Comics publish, a thousand shitty ones land in the trash. For every successfully selfpublished book, few hundred fails to get off the ground due to creator's inability to deal with the technical side of printing/finances (or lack thereof)/lack of marketing skills/bad timing/whatever.
And a big chunk of non-marvel/dc books is still a "labor of love" where creators work in their spare time after regular work, squeezing in pages inbetween food and sleep and not much else.
So yeah, here the ratio isn't that much better either. With the exception that there's no one to stop you in webcomics other than yourself (thus all the abandoned five-pagers cluttering drunkduck and other places).

Honestly, I believe that having very high quality work being presented in the webcomic genre can only lead to good things. Right now the webcomic 'world' is under the same stigma that printed 'funny books' had back in the thirties and forties--they weren't for 'serious' readers. And now look!

Webcomics right now are at their virtual infancy, and the fact that people are slowly becoming aware of the genre 'as a genre' means that this media type is growing. Figuring out a way to market this media truly is an issue. Gaia knows I have my irons in every fire I can think of in that regard, but I am satisfied simply to have an audience and friendly (generally) critics who aren't harsh. Some day a bright someone is going to figure out a model for income on the web, and then, maybe I'll get to cash in a little. Till then, it's onward with the story...the play is the thing!

On the topic of making a living doing a web comic, I brought up micropayments in another thread.
http://www.drunkduck.com/community/view_topic.php?tid=51019&cid=234
Wow. The reaction was intense. The word "pay" is to webcomic people is like the word "socialist" to American conservatives. (Which is oddly ironic)
jaex found a great link on the topic.
http://www.webcomics.com/home/2009/10/20/webcomics-and-the-economics-of-free-part-2-psychology-of-fre.html

I don't see "pros" making web comics changing anything. We don't do it for the money obviously, though it would be nice. We make comics because we have to. We have stories in our heads that have to come out or we will be miserable.

I think in a way we perceive a larger gap between "comics" and "webcomics" than there really is. Really, webcomics are just comics on the web and not some radically different form of entertainment. In a way, webcomics have competed with and have been compared to professional comics for a long time now, and I don't think the dynamics will change very much when professionals start choosing the web more often to display their work.

That's not to say that the pros and cons Skullbie listed won't come to pass, I just don't think they'll be as noticeable. People who like free amateur comics will still read our stuff, and those who like bland corporate stuff like Garfield will type to reach their comics rather than visit a newsstand.

Hre's a link to the pic Skill mentioned:

Warning NSFW http://www.drunkduck.com/Blonde_Marvel/index.php?p=624893

The "pro" aspect doesn't really bother me too much, most of that type of work doesn't appeal to me, and there are thousands of amateurs with pro skills who already do that sort of work on the web anyway.

That comic was more about the attitudes of various people... People who get too stuck up about comics, web comic and certain creators. We could do with less of those -_-

ozoneocean
Hre's a link to the pic Skill mentioned:

Warning NSFW http://www.drunkduck.com/Blonde_Marvel/index.php?p=624893

that was great.


but you have to realize that this sort of thing happens with comics all the time. do you seriously think a guy like jack kirby or john romita sr could even hope to break into comics now? their stuff was crude and raw, and would get passed over by an editor.

I think having 'Professional' web comics might make it easier for Webcomics as a whole to be seen as more of a legitimate art form. It seems like a lot of professional syndicated cartoonists tend to look down upon web comics. But the benefits are obvious, the lack of regulation, the freedom it allows you, and not having to worry about censors or anyone telling you 'what the audience wants' when they have no idea who their audience is or what they do, in fact, want.

On the downside, it's hard enough for us regular schmucks to make a living on the web comic market without the pros butting into our target audiences. The Basterds.

Most of the famous webcomic are proffesional in Korea...
But most of them started by pdating at page like this.If people read their comic a lot,It become a proffesional one.But still,There are lot of bad comic and the only reason people this that is because story comtain a lot of sexuality.

Well, my only thoughts right now are that I won't let all the professional level comics put me off. In fact, if they make my comics unnoticed, then I'll just have to get better, won't I?

The printed comics community has blinked that's what's happened.For decades Marvel and DC were the only game in town,unless you were an underground artist.Then the small publishers started making inroads and more independent self publishers started getting noticed and the Big Two had to wake up and adapt to the brave new world.
With the rise of the internet and the relatively low cost of webcomics combined with the slow decline of newspapers and other print media webcomics are now the next media revolution.Throw in the fact that they are free(mostly) and some are of equal or better quality than whats on the stands with far greater variety and it's not surprising print media darlings are looking to the web.What's going to be surprising in the long run is how many of them make it in a medium where love of what your doing, outweighs money and word of mouth takes the place of large PR departments.