*pulls up couch, lays down*

Someone play shrink. I gotta vent.

I've been on this site for over a year now(I think). I'll admit, for a good part of that year, hell, most of that year, I didn't really go on the forums. The only reason I originally joined up was to leave comments on CTV.

Around that time, I had a fanfic series going. I finished two of them, and was working on two more at the same time(which is something I originally vowed to never do). I eventually realized that the series was going down the crapper. OK, that might be an exaggeration. I had a few people openly reviewing my fics, and that was good enough for me. But, something just didn't feel right. My updates became less and less frequent until I wasn't updating them at all.

I then thought that maybe I could change my idea around a bit, and transfer it into comic form, and put it up here. The big problem was, I couldn't draw. Still can't, as a matter of fact. So, I would put up a thread, asking for help, like many others had done.

Now, don't get me wrong. I have a lot of fun on the forums here. I'm having a lot more fun than I've had in a while, and for that, I'm grateful to you guys. The thing is, I've made two threads for my main comic, and made another thread for a different idea as a warm-up. I still don't have a comic.

At first, plenty of people were responding, but now, no one's saying anything on any of the threads. No one wants to help.

If they have a good reason, like they have their own comic to work on, that's fine. So long as they tell me that. Don't leave me with a thin shred of hope. But the question I want to know is: Is this my own fault?

Did I say something on one of the threads that people didn't like, and they won't come out and say it? Or, do they simply not care? Or, are they not taking me seriously? I mean, yeah, I hang around the forum games a lot, and can be a bit of a goof, but I've got a serious side too! Especially when it comes to making a story!

It would be so much easier if someone would just tell me. That's what bugs me the most about this: No one will explain why.

If I'm thinking of the right threads, it's because you're asking for an artist. Free artists are hard to find, plain and simple. :) There's no 'fault' to assign other than that's just how things tend to be.

A lot of people are reluctant to put work into a project that isn't their own. They may have a certain amount of creative control over the look and visual design of the comic, but some folks just don't like the idea of doing what is often seen as 'the work' of a comic if they aren't going to get paid for it or if they don't feel some ownership of the comic. Being an artist on someone else's project really does boil down to being told what to draw and I think that artists who frequent a webcomic site are usually more invested in their own ideas than they are in someone else's.

It isn't too complicated really. Writers who do manage to find artists who will work with them for free are pretty lucky - I think most of the writer/artist teams I've seen in webcomics are people who know each other as friends already (in person or online). I imagine it's very, very hard to convince a stranger to put their artistic talent into a comic conceived of by someone else.

If they have a good reason, like they have their own comic to work on, that's fine. So long as they tell me that. Don't leave me with a thin shred of hope.

I hope you mean you'd have liked an explanation/withdrawl reason from the people who said they would help and then dropped out, and not that you want a reason from all the people who didn't respond in the first place. :) That second one would be pretty silly.

why is this in D+D thread ? it has nothing to do with Psychiatry .

OK , i'll go ahead pretend i didn't read the first 2 posts -

Modern Psychiatry is all about money $$$ ! most mental doctors are either drug addicts, morons or mental patients themselves , the whole system has adapted itself to push pharmaceuticals on the population , people that would be better served through a littl psycho-Analysis . Instead we have a system of half educated "doctors" running around like perscription writing RoboTs ! and comercials on TV to gather new customers for the drug companies ! i beleive this to be one of the contributing factors to the collapse of western civilization !!!

edeit - oh, and my advice to the original poster - Learn to draw ! in my opinion , you are being lazy asking others to do for you what you say you can't do . if you realy have great ideas for a story , and you think it's worth it , you should put the effort into developing your skills .
A solid source of driving motivation is more important than technical proficiency at drawing ! that comes later , but without the drive the skills are imobile !

skoolmunkee
If I'm thinking of the right threads, it's because you're asking for an artist. Free artists are hard to find, plain and simple. :) There's no 'fault' to assign other than that's just how things tend to be.

A lot of people are reluctant to put work into a project that isn't their own. They may have a certain amount of creative control over the look and visual design of the comic, but some folks just don't like the idea of doing what is often seen as 'the work' of a comic if they aren't going to get paid for it or if they don't feel some ownership of the comic. Being an artist on someone else's project really does boil down to being told what to draw and I think that artists who frequent a webcomic site are usually more invested in their own ideas than they are in someone else's.

It isn't too complicated really. Writers who do manage to find artists who will work with them for free are pretty lucky - I think most of the writer/artist teams I've seen in webcomics are people who know each other as friends already (in person or online). I imagine it's very, very hard to convince a stranger to put their artistic talent into a comic conceived of by someone else.

If they have a good reason, like they have their own comic to work on, that's fine. So long as they tell me that. Don't leave me with a thin shred of hope.

I hope you mean you'd have liked an explanation/withdrawl reason from the people who said they would help and then dropped out, and not that you want a reason from all the people who didn't respond in the first place. :) That second one would be pretty silly.

Well, like I said in the threads, I would be willing to compromise if they had any ideas to add. For example, my story tends to be a bit bloody, and plenty of cursing, but if my co-worker wanted me to tone it down, that's fine by me.

And I realize that it would be easier if my co-worker was my friend to begin with. The problem is is that I don't know if any of my friends can draw, or would be willing. But, I suppose I won't know unless I ask them, right?

And yes, I did mean the first version. I remember someone asking me if they could see a bit of a script before they make a decision. I put a small bit up, and they never answered. I hated that.

Oh, and I agree with lothar. That is how things seem to be nowadays.

I know that as an artist myself, I don't generally work with other people when it comes to comics. Partly because I have no time at all to devote to a comic on a regular basis (so it wouldn't be fair to work with someone) but also because I have my own ideas. And if given the choice between illustrating someone else's stories or my own, I much rather illustrate my own. At least when I work on my own, I only answer to myself. And since I don't generally talk to myself, I don't need to run ideas over with anyone or consult anyone about any changes.

That is not to say that you'll never find an artist or the only artist who'll draw your comic is your friend. I think the guy who does the art behind Pet Professional [petprofessional.net] didn't know the writer prior to the comic. But there tends to be more writers out there looking for an artist than there are artists looking for a writer. Most artist-writer teams I've seen tend to have a good chemistry going on between them as well.

So if you're a writer and you got a good artist helping you out, give that artist a hug. :)

Heh, if I can find an artist willing to help, I'd hug 'em for a whole day.

Well, virtually, at least.

ZeroVX
If they have a good reason, like they have their own comic to work on, that's fine. So long as they tell me that.

Do you expect for every artist to go to every request thread and say 'no, I have no time'? lol I don't. My reasons are the same already mentioned. I have a bizillion ideas floating around in my head, comic and novel wise (and a sprite game too T_T) and I don't want to produce someone else's stuff. People have even pm me for help on writing their story boards. I offer only minimal help, at THAT'S IT. Honestly, I've told people flat out NO, and those few have shut down unfortunately.

I'm sorry that you were let down, but I couldn't draw very well a few years back when GR started (though I thought I was the total shit :P) maybe you could just go with and improve with time?

Lothar's right, ZeroVX is just talking about himself here and his artist troubles... This isn't a good D+D topic. I'll leave it to Hawk though, he's the Man here!
Plus, I have a headache... Freud had some interesting theories about why people get headaches and they were all WRONG! :P

Do sprite comics.

Or do cut and paste comics.

If you can't draw, too bad.

THREAD LOCKED

(course, I'm not an admin so I can't lock the thread, I can only ignore every post after my own and act as if this thread was sent into the realm of oblivion!)

(moved thread)
i agree with skool.
i hate working together for a project especially if i'm the artist.

i don't mind bieng a writer, because it's easier to write than draw a comic.
i can write "fight scene here" and it might take the artist 3 weeks to do that fight scene.

when it comes to personal projects i do all and be all.
if the comic tanks i can only blame myself.

Like the people above said, experience has taught me that I'm much happier working by myself as an artist/writer combo on a comic. I get frustrated very easily working with a partner. To be completely honest, at this point in my life, I wouldn't even consider taking on a collaborative project that wasn't paying anything (except for.. virtual hugs?), because I simply don't enjoy it and I would rather spend my time working on a project that's my own. :/

I agree with Lothar. You can teach yourself to draw, and you may find that it's more to your liking than trying to find an outside artist. The beauty of comics is that art doesn't have to be completely photorealistic or even vaguely realistic. Find a style that suits you and practice with it, and you'll eventually develop it enough that you can draw your own comic.

marine
Do sprite comics.

Or do cut and paste comics.

If you can't draw, too bad.

THREAD LOCKED

(course, I'm not an admin so I can't lock the thread, I can only ignore every post after my own and act as if this thread was sent into the realm of oblivion!)

Marine, if I was going to do a sprite comic, it'd already be up. In fact, I probably would've put in up years ago, instead of working on fanfiction, and eventually coming here.

And if you were just going to ignore this thread, why put up anything in the first place?

Right. Causing trouble. Stupid question.

In response to the rest of you, yes, I could teach myself to draw. I'm just not sure if I have the patience to accurately draw well.

ZeroVX, I think you've just stumbled on a peculiarity of comics these days and taken it personally. But I don't think you should take it personally.

Not everyone can draw, and not everyone wants to. The world is full of amazing writers who needn't learn how to draw. Neil Gaiman can't draw comics, but he's still really good. Alan Moore can't draw either. hey, aren't those guys famous?

It is also true that it's hard to find an artist these days. Everyone who can draw thinks they can write - a good analogy is singer-songwriters. There are a million singer-songwriters out there who would make good singers. And some who make good songwriters. A few are actually both. So why dont all the singers and the songwriters pair up and get together?

I don't know. But there's nothing you can do about it.

When people say they cant draw I say "Draw more!"

In your case, I say "Write more!" Write your scripts. Don't stop to chat with us losers, just get out there and write. write comic after comic after comic. It's good practice. Develop your craft. Show em around. Show em to your friends. Even show em to us.

You'll find your artist eventually. Your scripts will draw them in like treasure.

The story of people who succeed is the story of people too stupid to give up.

So dont get smart.

......wow.

Thanks. I...I needed to hear that.

OK, I'll get to work on my scripts!

Just as soon as school ends......*sigh*

WTG ZeroVX - we'll be watching for them!

Actually, there's another whole angle to this that I hadn't thought of.

I'll bet that Most of the people on Drunk Duck don't WRITE comic scripts and dont READ them. I mean, I used to write comic strips for my friends to read and draw - but now that I draw for myself, I never actually write out scripts. I work from notes that no other person could ever read.

Since i don't WRITE scripts, I tend to find them kind of boring to READ. Writing and reading are skills that go together, after all.

I wonder how many people on Drunk Duck really enjoy reading comic scripts for the fun of it? I used to, but I haven't in many years.

Anyway, Im betting that when writers show off their scripts, people mostly don't read them. Well, it's a habit I should get back into. After all I might want to write scripts again someday!

(unless Im wrong, in which case, this idea may only apply to me after all!)

I understand your frustrations. It makes you feel invisible when no one answers your threads. (I think of it like the old adage, if you ask ten women to sleep with you, one will.) I've done some lettering for other people and it's fun! But, you nailed it...at least for me. I've got my own projects goin'. (Heck, let's face it, that I need an artist for. It helps bein' married to someone that can draw whatever jumps in your noodle.) But, I have eight half finished comic books and three that are totally finished. Poor Ethan can only draw so fast, and then he has to deal with me, the editor...a nasty nasty devil woman. It's a long process. So, my advice is to just write the script and file it, one day you'll meet your perfect "pencils."

I had a professor one time, that told the class...Don't work for someone elses dream. I have to agree to an extent. There are tons of Learn to Draw books out there. Trust me, it is SLOW going. But, I'm almost to the point where I can produce "Cowboy Bebop" style art. (That's something for my lack of artistic skills.) I've been at it about six months. And I started with stick-figures.

Most people I have encountered in my life are seriously lacking manners and etiquette is a lost art. It is RUDE to acknowledge and disappear, I have several PQ's where THEY approached me for collaboration---I said...Yeah, I'll help (So, you clear your schedule a bit) and then nothin'. It's a pain. But, don't give up, if this is something you really want to do. Like they said, it's hard doin' blood and tears for nothin'. But, you'll find an equally aspiring artist and then there will be no stopping you.

(Warren Ellis has a fantastic forum where artist and writers are always hookin' up. Some are wanting scratch, but you may luck out; it's called The Engine [the-engine.net] and may be worth a glance.)

You want people to draw for you? Pay them. Simple as that.

Wow, this did turn into an interesting thread about a significant problem for some and, fortunately, a positive solution was found.

My two cents is that I agree that it is rare to just have a collaborator handy unless you're already friends with them. I lucked out - I asked my wife if she would help me develop a comic from scratch then co-write it with me and she agreed.

If you don't know any artists willing to help, you either learn to draw or you pay someone. I'm glad the writer is encouraged to continue his scripts, however, and I wish him the best!

Oh and the assessments about psychiatry, while harsh, do seem to be the truth. Sad, huh?

while its true some people are like that, the mental health profession is mostly made up of people who want to help. Sometimes medication is needed to help bring a person to a place where talking to them can do the most good. My brother was recently put on prozac because he gets violently angry for no reason. Its hard to talk to him, if you press one of his invisible buttons9which change daily) he can come at you with fists. With the medication, he's able to talk to the doctor openly and get to the root of his anger problems.

Owch, Sounds like you caught the back end of 'stop asking me to draw for you!' whiplash. The reason we artists don't often collaberate is pretty simple really, and boils down to two reasons:

1. Tonnes of people have an idea for a comic or something they think would be awesome, who are unable to draw that thing themselves.

2. Artists get sick of being asked by these people to draw for them.

If a person can draw, unless they've kept it secret reaaaally well, you can bet that right through school people have always been asking them to draw stuff for them. Even now I'm not is school, I get fairly regular naggings, both by friends and strangers through e-mail and im, stuff like 'hey, will you design characters for my game?' etc. Now, I've agreed to do some, politely turned down others...and not a single project I've agreed to participate in and done hours of art for has ever gone through and been completed.

It's sad and wrong, and I blame teenage boys. No, really, they're the worst offenders. They watch some anime or play some game and have an idea they're really passionate about, 'cause they're inspired! ...this is fine if they go off and just do the thing themselves, but so many clog up forums and inboxes with 'Awesome concept looking for artist!' requests, that never go through, since the boy will soon lose passion and become equally in love with a new idea. So the artists become jaded about clicking on those kinds of threads. I mean, any bum on the street could say 'oh, I have a great idea for a comic! It's about anthro rabbit cyborg ninjas in a dystopian future!' And there lies the problem. You see, somewhere in the middle of this cacophany are some geniunely talented, dedicated, great writers. They're just lost in a sea of voices, all asking for our time and resources.

I say you should write. Hey, maybe even make a comic. Even if the art is poor, spectacular writing is bound to get you noticed, I mean, just look at 'Dinosaur Comics', that's the same pictures every week, but the brilliance of the writing is what drives it and makes it great! Write fiction as well. Few artists can fail to be inspired to draw by a really good piece of writing. I'm sure you'll find an artist eventually. Good luck.

Yep. I agree with Darth Mongoose here. I wouldn't draw at all if I didn't have a story I made up that I wanted to see in action.

Nice to hear I'm not the only one that gets the "will you draw something for me" stuff all the time in real life.

How often is it this? "You should make tattoos!" Or "You should make me a tattoo!!!"

Sometimes I really consider getting into making tattoos even though I find them mostly revolting =P

Most of the useful stuff's already been said, but as a data point I'll throw my hat in with the "sucked at drawing until I actually started... drawing, and now I'm not exactly an artistic genius but my comic's certainly going" pile. ^_^

Guys, you're the greatest. Thanks for all your advice.

I think I finally know what to do. I'll write the scripts, put them in my thread, and maybe, just maybe, I'll get lucky.

My finals are this week so I should have plenty of time to write a few.

Who knows? Maybe I'll have one or two up tomorrow!

So, again, thanks. You're all the greatest.

'Cept you marine. You're a rude meanie.

StaceyMontgomery
Actually, there's another whole angle to this that I hadn't thought of.

I'll bet that Most of the people on Drunk Duck don't WRITE comic scripts and dont READ them. I mean, I used to write comic strips for my friends to read and draw - but now that I draw for myself, I never actually write out scripts. I work from notes that no other person could ever read.

Since i don't WRITE scripts, I tend to find them kind of boring to READ. Writing and reading are skills that go together, after all.

I write my comic's scripts. And I re-read thru it periodically, editing segments whenever a brainstorm strikes me.

The advantage of writing out the script in a legible format, and revisiting it periodically, is that over time you can polish the thing until it shines. Whenever I get a new idea about the script, in it goes. I keep the draft in Yahoo Mail, so I can reach it where-ever there's a computer (no I don't have a laptop or I-phone). If you just have your script on a bunch of scattered scrap paper, or just in your head, you can't keep yourself organized and you can't polish the script whenever you want to.

I didn't even start drawing the comic until my 1st draft of the script was finished (30 pages on MS Word). I don't find it boring to know the ending before I even begin drawing, because as I've said, I edit the script all the time. New scenes or revised dialog constantly get added.

RobertTidwell
You want people to draw for you? Pay them. Simple as that.

I used to dread collaborative efforts. Because I used to really have a problem finishing the things I started for myself and always thought there's no way I'd come through with someone else's work.

Then I started getting paying jobs.

My god how I transformed! Like a freakin autobot! So, uh, yeah, I have like a zillion little projects of my own on the backburner. I have my regular weekly comic here that I totally don't want to miss an update on. I have some freelance work I do that pays. And a regular job.

But hey, if the price is right, I'll find the time. I'll draw "This R Serious CatGirl" pinups from now till Tuesday, if money's involved. It's amazing how professional an artist one can become when it's actually functioning like it's a profession.

;)

mlai
I don't find it boring to know the ending before I even begin drawing, because as I've said, I edit the script all the time. New scenes or revised dialog constantly get added.

I'm pretty guilty of writing my comics "The Marvel Way" ... (basic outline, scribbled on paper, Thumbnails, more thumbnails, more thumbnails, then blow em up, draw em, ink em, then add dialog) ... but lately I've been trying to kick my butt more to get some script going first. The stuff I've done here on Drunk Duck has been published in 4 previous formats (the origin of my character is almost an inside joke by itself now). But this is the first time I've had elbow room to actually write it. And that's made me feel like I need to do more scripting.

BUT I digress ...

My reason for quoting and responding is ... I don't think I could create a comic without knowing the ending. Even my rudimentary, cave man like outline scribbles, have the beginning, middle and end. So everything I've ever drawn, I've at least known the end to before I put pencil to paper.

I'm not sure I could imagine telling a story without knowing how it ends.

Hmmmmmm.