Did Endsong take place in main-stream Marvel universe? Because everybody keeps talking about Jean as though she's dead. It's really quite annoying.

Yeah, it's a canonical mini-series. That's the official "Final" death of Jean Grey; of course, that's what they said last time they killed her.

Back in the old (really old) Marvel comics, Jean Grey got killed off...it's almost like that 'Death of Superman'. They just keep bringin the heros back...

I'm huge Jean buff, so it's so very annoying to me the frequency that they kill Jean...

I've never cared much for Jean. She's never had a very distinct personality, and as such I've never really cared what happened to her. That sort of thing happens to a lot of the "Good Girl" types; the writers focus on making them nice and happy all the time, and since there aren't any real "flaws" in the character they end up static and uninteresting. If it wasn't for the Dark Pheonix thing, I doubt she would ever have amounted to much of anything, story-wise.

Jean had a "redheaded temper" earlier on, but then they started making more agnsty and emotional problem-y characters, like Wolverine and Rouge. Jean got shunted from nice girl with a temper to total pushover. There are quite a few expections, but for the most part they took Jean and weakened her as a character.

However, she shows some sparks at the beggining of X-Factor, when she telekienticly shoves a matress up Scot's ass after finding out that he got married while she was dead and didn't tell her. (Not actually what happened, but close enough.)

In retrospect, Scot's relationship with Jean bordered on abusive a whole bunch of times. She should of killed him. He,

A) Cheated on her. Countless times. Even when it was, like, the first time she died, he was boinking a stewardess on the way back from her funeral.
B) Lied to her. Don't want to get into that. It's like a bottomless pit.
C) Was a complete asshole to her. Not even an "Oh, thanks." after she saved him from Apocalpse. Jerk.


Wow, I've worked up quite a loathing for Scot. That got off subject.

Yeah, Scot's always sucked too. I think it made it a bit weirder that, in everything outside the comics, he was the clean cut, efficient leader, whereas in the comics he was a self-centered spaz.

I'll probably be lynched for writing this, but I doen't really like Wolverine as a character anymore. He's conceptually cool, and he has neat powers and stuff, but I feel he's way overblown. I liked him better when he was just a member of the New X-men, with Storm and Warbird and Banshee. Now he's not only serving on multiple X-men teams, he's an Avenger and he has his own solo adventures. He's interesting, but if you shove someone in the spotlight for too long, they tend to fade.

Let angry hoardes of X-fans tear out my brains now.

That's what happens when you try to have one line of continuity for 50 frikkin years.

Its canon fodder.

THe X-men have certain characters, though, that when they kill off you know ain't never comin' back. Like the first Warbird, or Magick, or Moira McTaggaret. You know they're irreversibly dead.

The problem is that, more often than not, the only characters that stay permanently dead are the ones no one cares about in the first place...

Say, that reminds me, does anyone keep up with DC around here? Because I don't, but I heard that in this big Infinite Crisis thing they're doing, an evil Superboy from another dimension punches a whole in time and/or reality, and that somehow leads to Jason Todd (the second Robin) to come back to life as a supervillain... somehow.

Wow, that might be the weirdest plot ever.

You know how DC usually has two alternate versions of a superhero, the younger one and the female one? Like Superboy and Supergirl, Batgirl and Robin, Mary Marvel and that kid whose name I can't remember, the various kid Flashes. Did Wonder Woman ever have a younger alternate and/or an opposite gender partner with a similar name and powers? I know she's an amazon, so the whole "Girl Power" thing, but still...

There have been at least two "Wonder Girls" that I'm aware of. One of them got killed while out and about with the Teen Titans, but I believe she was brought back to life recently. The odd thing about her was she had very little in common with Wonder Woman, at least at first glance. The second one is a modern Teen Titan, and I think she's dating Superboy.

So, guessing there was never a Wonder Man. Or Wonder Boy. Still, the Wonder Girl thing is pretty interesting.

I've said the word "Wonder" so much it has lost all meaning.

Juggernaut's friend, "Sammie the Fish Boy" will probably stay dead too..

There was, however, a Wonder Man in Marvel comics. He's a really old character, though, and they've essentially discontinued him.

magickmaker
I'll probably be lynched for writing this, but I doen't really like Wolverine as a character anymore. He's conceptually cool, and he has neat powers and stuff, but I feel he's way overblown. I liked him better when he was just a member of the New X-men, with Storm and Warbird and Banshee. Now he's not only serving on multiple X-men teams, he's an Avenger and he has his own solo adventures. He's interesting, but if you shove someone in the spotlight for too long, they tend to fade.

Let angry hoardes of X-fans tear out my brains now.

I totally agree with you on that one - I've been sick of Wolverine for years, due to the constant overexposure he's had since at least the early '90's.

There was, however, a Wonder Man in Marvel comics. He's a really old character, though, and they've essentially discontinued him.

Actually, Wonder Man has been in fairly constant use for awhile in Marvel (although never a 'star' character) - after being killed off in the 90's he was returned at the end of Kurt Busieks first storyline when they relaunced the Avengers (following Heroes Reborn) - he was a memeber of that off-and-on, and has a mini-series coming up soon (written by Peter David) :)

I've always hated death scenes when I knew they were temporary. DBZ was the worst offender, it almost seemed like the characters themselves no longer cared if they died, because they were so powerful they'd just come back.
I...never read the X-Men comics. I only saw the cartoon when I was a little kid, and barely understood it then. Even then, I knew that Jean was killed and brought back too much. I was tired of Wolverine's emphasis, too, but (having never read the comics) never got sick of it.

On another note, Magickmaker, I love your sig-quote. xD YAY for Wicked!