Rich
It's entirely possible you may be overthinking it. Do remember that it's possible for folks to be insensitive without being deliberately racist.

This is where the education kicks in. :)
Besides there are many sides to every story, particularly- all those on one side who are advocating a position for all their various and diverse reasons, and all those who are interpreting it and who it affects and who it's aimed it.

What you're doing is taking the side of the few ignorant people who wave stuff about without knowing any of the possible implications. What I'm doing is enumerating those implications and considering the much larger groups who will also be aware of them as well as the meaning of those implications in the world we live in in this point in time, in our society with all the particular things that are going on right now.

Rich
Which is what we call being politically incorrect due to racial insensitivity.

It's not though, is it? That's just not logical. You're talking a general classification. The example you're applying it to though is something specific. Which means it's a nonsense :)

If you were saying that there was a new MacDonald's promotion where they offered all black people free watermelon and fried chicken, then that would be a just a little "politically incorrect due to racial insensitivity", but if you're asking a black friend if they want some because you're both hungry then it's nothing of the sort. If they get offended then that's between you and them.
I'm not going to go into all the ins and outs of how you talk to friends and strangers about various topics on a personal level, but generally you'd be the person most qualified to know how you'd do that best and what you really mean in each instance. ;)

So...

Even if the intent was not to be racist and was just to compare Obama to a deranged clown, it is still racist?

Rich
Even if the intent was not to be racist and was just to compare Obama to a deranged clown, it is still racist?

No.
You missed things in the last 3 posts if you're coming away with that impression.

There are many, many more people using the imagery than just your small hypothetical group who apparently have no idea that it could be racist. And then again most people who truly are racist never really consider what they're doing is racist at all. ;)

Ozone, I can see where you are coming from, but I think it only appears racist without full history of the image. Originally it was a conservative internet meme.

There are heaps of images like this. This is where the comparison comes from. It's not about the colour of his skin.

Even that is incorrect, as the person who made it was simply bored and wanted to try out something he learned in class, not make a political statement. =\

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_%22Joker%22_poster#Origin [en.wikipedia.org]

I'm actually agree that it isn't racist, just ignorant. I seriously doubt that the racially insensitive aspect of the poster was intentional. They were just foolish not to forsee that it could be interpreted that way.

Sorta like the Ghetto-bots in Transformers 2. I don't think they were trying to be racist, they just didn't think about what they were doing. I doubt Tom Kenny or Michael Bay actually values black people less than whites.


Honestly, I'm more concerned with the people who are trying to use this whole thing as an example of our civil liberties being suspended due to our democratic majority. The fact that so many people are buying into this ridiculous fear-mongering is worrisome.

i'm hopping in with the "this isn't racist group" in fact, until i read this thread i had never even heard the racist aspect of this.
ontop of that, i agree with those saying that it's because the most visual villian, regardless of comic book lovers or not. i seriously doubt that The Dark Knight made so much money because every comic book lover went and saw it 10 times. it brought people from all genre's because of heath ledgers death. on top of that, he played an awesome joker.

on top of all that, find a black villain, that more than 10 people would know. i can honestly say that i don't know any. Galactus is neither.

This was a jab at Obama stirring up everything, trying to change everything to how he wants it. nothing more. i'm sure 80% of people didn't think racism till someone else brought it up. i'm sure the real racists were more "Holy F%%% they made that ********* black president white! how dare that person insult us, lets go kill him"

I don't get it. How does the image where Obama looks like the Joker make a good argument against socialism?

At least when they made him look like Hitler there was a slightest hint of a tie (albeit highly inappropriate). I mean, why don't they make him look like a communist or something similar.

WHY JOKER!?!

Product Placement
I don't get it. How does the image where Obama looks like the Joker make a good argument against socialism?

At least when they made him look like Hitler there was a slightest hint of a tie (albeit highly inappropriate). I mean, why don't they make him look like a communist or something similar.

WHY JOKER!?!

these aren't the "good argument" kind of people. these are the "HE'S A KENYAN-BORN MUSLEM HERE TO DESTROY AMERICA" kind of people. the Joker is evil, and he's common knowledge because of the movie that came out, so Joker=Obama.

to make it simple, they're all morons that couldn't come up with an actual argument if their freedom actually WAS at stake.

While I don't remember those exact images of Rice or Powell, I do remember similar statements being made and similar images being posted. When it happened, the liberal radio shows I listened to (Stephanie Miller, Rachel Maddow and - I believe - Al Franken) condemned them as racist. You do not see similar movement on the conservative side about blatant racist statements concerning ... well, anybody, really. I especially remember Rachel Maddow's show worrying about the racism that was peeking out of the fringes of the left.

The poster came to popular attention after the real racism that has been displayed - the Obama citizenship "debate", the watermelons on the White House lawn image, the endless slew of racist jokes about the president (and Obama the candidate before that), "Barrack the Magic Negro" song on Rush Limbaugh's show. It was impossible not to see or hear at least some of it.

That being said, the Obama/Joker poster isn't necessarily racist, though I could see it taken as such. Personally, I see it as a failed message. In the original picture, the Joker had the writing "Why so serious?" on his forehead. As a clown, he perversely wanted people to be less serious. With the Obama rip-off, "Why so socialist?" implies that Obama's is perversely trying to reduce socialism. Now personally I don't think Obama comes even close to a socialist (if only!), but if the image were to be consistent with the original, it should have read "Why so capitalist?" ... but that isn't close enough to the word "serious", so it may have added even more confusion.

So, in short, Obama/Joker ... bad messaging. Whenever a bad message is displayed, the viewer will read into it whatever they want because it's open to interpretation. Some will see it as racist.

As for vandalism - posting anything, anywhere without regard to the laws is vandalism. Kyupol argues that this is a violation of free speech to not be allowed to post things in public areas. Can you imagine that world for a minute? Within days, all public areas would be packed with corporate advertising. A government-owned museum would - completely legitimately according to Kyupol - have posters pasted over and messages scrawled upon the ancient artifacts or artistic masterpieces.

Littering is not free speech. Free speech is the ability to say what you want against the government with no fear of government retribution. It does not mean you can vandalize public areas, incite people to riot, expect to win a privately-run beauty pageant, or continue to get advertiser support for your television/radio show.

As I said before:
-Racists often don't think of themselves that way.
-There are a lot of groups using that image, many of them will be doing so because they are racist. In that way it's a bit like the "Michael Jackson is a paedo" thing or "OJ is Guilty" thing- for some those issues were genuine concerns, but for a lot of racists they were golden opportunities to bring their anti-black people message right into the mainstream. ;)

ozoneocean
WHITE FACE.

Ages after this thread was created, it bugs me that I don't even think "Hey, white face!" when I see it. I mean, je suis noire, aussi. I suppose the Joker was a clever way to hide it?
Sorry to jsut drop this into y'all's discussion.

I think the bankers who run America put a black man in office so that the race card could be pulled any time someone makes fun of or criticizes him.

At the end of the day, there is no right or left in politics.. it's like pro wrestling, they're all friends behind closed doors. Take note of the consistent direction in which we have been heading: more taxation, more governmental control, less freedom, less regulation of the big companies that are making a fortune off us all.

The scariest part of it all is it's probably too late to turn it back.

Evil_Hare
I think the bankers who run America put a black man in office so that the race card could be pulled any time someone makes fun of or criticizes him.

At the end of the day, there is no right or left in politics.. it's like pro wrestling, they're all friends behind closed doors. Take note of the consistent direction in which we have been heading: more taxation, more governmental control, less freedom, less regulation of the big companies that are making a fortune off us all.

The scariest part of it all is it's probably too late to turn it back.

oh, i get it. you're a conservative troll. riddle me this, troll- how many people criticizing him haven't been trying to defend the "bankers who run America"?

almost everything you've suggested happened under the previous retard, where were you? enjoying your happy red pills i imagine. but now there's a scary negro attacking your beliefs, so he must be evil because of his skin color and differing political party!

feh. you are a weak minded sheep. your only opinions are the ones your moral leaders impress in you, and your outrage is simply what you're told to feel. for you is IS too late to turn it back, and it's all your own doing.

and we alredy have a much better forum crackpot here.

kyupol
But it was perfectly ok to make fun of George W.

Bush compared to a chimp.


Bush compared to Hitler. (aka fascist)


Bush as the Joker


When Obama does the same things as George Bush (the wars, the destruction of liberties, etc.), why is it not ok to make fun of Obama even if they are so similar?

Actually, I don't know if you remember this, but when Bush was in office, it WASN'T ok to make serious criticisms against him. Anything one wielding a status less than celebrity would practically be blacklisted.

It's perfectly acceptable to make a Joker Obama picture in my mind.

However, in my mind it also makes no sense and makes you look like an idiot nerd who can't think of proper political criticism so you instead just make him look like a comic book villain.

So feel free to make an ass out of yourself.

The whole "whiteface" angle is one way to look at it, but I doubt it. There are much better ways to portray that without using some movie character. Besides, I don't think anyone's criticism is that he doesn't act black enough. In fact, all I've seen are people saying he acts like a white guy but uses his black to gain support. So in other words, the exact opposite.

No, the truth is this was probably made by some bored dipshit 4channer and then some even dumber people saw it, made up some dumb "message" for it, and posted it anyway thinking they're clever.

And the fact that you're saying something that's unintentionally slightly offensive is worse than something intentionally racist definitely suggests a bias.

EDIT:

Rich
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_%22Joker%22_poster#Origin [en.wikipedia.org]

Wow I was pretty close.

kyupol
Come on. We cannot have the following signs posted anymore:
- lost cat/dog signs
- garage sale signs
- come see this new restaurant signs
- rock band signs
- fast divorce signs
- driving school signs
- etc.

Dammit. I never thought I'd agree with you.

Comicracy

That's just the same as the "I hate Political Correctness" syndrome. On the surface it looks all reasonable and above board, but the people that complain about such things the longest and loudest are the ones who think hanging nooses from tree branches like Christmas decorations is a legitimate political statement.

the reality is that it's very, very easy to make signs and posters that no one will seriously call racist or sexist or whatever and they're very easy to defend against allegations that they are by extremists

----------------------------
Besides, what's the bigger issue here?. Some perceived issue that people will get pissy over your badly designed protest sign or the right to show genuinely, overtly racist stuff in your protests?

Personally I think it's pretty unimportant that people are allowed to get upset over things they might consider racist. It's actually healthy that they are. Far, far better that than people not being able to get pissy about that stuff at all, like in the old days when racism was tolerated and overt.

ie- better that people are allowed to call things racist than they aren't.

ozoneocean
That's just the same as the "I hate Political Correctness" syndrome. On the surface it looks all reasonable and above board, but the people that complain about such things the longest and loudest are the ones who think hanging nooses from tree branches like Christmas decorations is a legitimate political statement.

political correctness is stupid, though. it's effectively a sanitized version of racism for white people to use so they don't offend people in public. as usual, it come down to white people wanting to call non-white people bad names for having melatonin.

Orin J Master
political correctness is stupid, though. it's effectively a sanitized version of racism for white people to use so they don't offend people in public. as usual, it come down to white people wanting to call non-white people bad names for having melatonin.

It's nothing at all about that what so ever. That's just another comic characterisation stemming not from reality but from the cliche comedy version.

You're not making a joke about PC, you're making a joke about a joke.
We're pretty much at the stage where we have people making jokes about joke that are about jokes that someone who actually knew something about real political correctness made a joke about in 1983.

Political correctness now is just a big bad bogeyman for everyone to get upset over.