Lord Shplane
Actually, people I know in BOTH of those demographics love Halo. About the only people who DON'T love Halo are, you know, ACTUAL gamers, and not just people who only have 360's just for Halo and Guitar Hero 3.

How do you know what a gamer is?

A gamer means anyone that, and to quote the dictionary, gam·er /�geɪm�r/ Pronunciation Key - �noun, a person who plays games. There are many people out there that like Halo, like reviewers, or, you know, video game developers.

Saying that all people who are enthusiastic about video games don't like Halo just because you don't like it is very blind sighted.

Terminal
How do you know what a gamer is?

A gamer means anyone that, and to quote the dictionary, gam���·er /���ge���ªm���r/ Pronunciation Key - �¢ï¿½ï¿½noun, a person who plays games. There are many people out there that like Halo, like reviewers, or, you know, video game developers.

Saying that all people who are enthusiastic about video games don't like Halo just because you don't like it is very blind sighted.

I wasn't using the literal meaning of the word, but instead the word as it is applied to a social group. As in people who use gaming as their primary form of entertainment.

As for ALL gamers, I never said that ALL gamers dislike Halo. Simply that more of the gamers I know dislike Halo than do other social demographics. This is most likely because people in other demographics have only really been introduced to Halo and sometimes Guitar Hero, and maybe the occasional Mario or Gears of War. So instead of having a larger sampling to choose from, the instead latch on to that single game because it is the only one they have really played extensively. Despite the fact that it is fairly mediocre.

And what reviewer would EVER give Halo a bad score? With all the hype that surrounded it, they'd probably get fired if they did. It's the same reason why that one guy got fired for giving Kane & Lynch (I THINK that was the game) a bad review. And what developer doesn't like the game that they've made (Unless they work at EA).

EDIT: tl;dr version- I speak in generalities, because my mind does not seperate them from absolutes. Because it is a greatly held personal belief of mine that there ARE no absolutes.

Someone
giving Kane & Lynch (I THINK that was the game) a bad review.

From what I've heard about that game, he'd probably get a promotion.

Ok, enough with the Halo bashing. It's ridiculous. Futhermore, Halo 1? Best in the series? where has everyone been for 7 years? Sure, the stories in Halo2 and 3 weren't that good, but each game added more weapons and more features that made a good game even better. As for a multiplayer FPS for a console, the only thing that comes close is COD4, which I personally don't even like.

Finally, real gamers don't play Halo? I've been playing since NES, I've beaten Megaman 2, I own about every nintendo sytem and then some, I own and have played every odd numbered Final fantasy, Bioshock, Oblivion, Super Paper Mario, all the Kirby games(except Dreamland 3), and I'm currently playing Ikaruga. I'm more of a gamer than 90% of the people on this thread.

Halo is not just for 12 year olds. Granted, that's mostly who plays it, but it's still fun.

Eirikr
Ok, enough with the Halo bashing. It's ridiculous. Futhermore, Halo 1? Best in the series? where has everyone been for 7 years? Sure, the stories in Halo2 and 3 weren't that good, but each game added more weapons and more features that made a good game even better. As for a multiplayer FPS for a console, the only thing that comes close is COD4, which I personally don't even like.

Halo is a mediocre game. Always has been, and unless they pull the kind of thing that the CoD people did, it always will be. It's OK, but it's pretty much just the same as every other FPS. Same controls, same story, same weapons, same everything. Resistance at least had some cool guns, and CoD4 has the BEST controls I've ever used on an FPS. Sure, they don't have the fancy multiplayer bells and whistles that Halo does, but when your core gameplay sucks, who cares about being able to take videos in the middle of a match?

Eirikr
Finally, real gamers don't play Halo? I've been playing since NES, I've beaten Megaman 2, I own about every nintendo sytem and then some, I own and have played every odd numbered Final fantasy, Bioshock, Oblivion, Super Paper Mario, all the Kirby games(except Dreamland 3), and I'm currently playing Ikaruga. I'm more of a gamer than 90% of the people on this thread.

I didn't say don't PLAY, I said don't LOVE. Most "hardcore" or whatever you want to call it gamers admit that Halo isn't the giant super god game that everyone else likes to pretend that it is. And like I said before, I speak in generalities instead of absolutes. I admit that some people who have played other games and still really love Halo. It's just that they're not the majority.

Eirikr
Halo is not just for 12 year olds. Granted, that's mostly who plays it, but it's still fun.

Mostly implies a generality, which is what I was using. So you just agreed with me on all points except "Halo sux".

Lord Shplane

Eirikr
Ok, enough with the Halo bashing. It's ridiculous. Futhermore, Halo 1? Best in the series? where has everyone been for 7 years? Sure, the stories in Halo2 and 3 weren't that good, but each game added more weapons and more features that made a good game even better. As for a multiplayer FPS for a console, the only thing that comes close is COD4, which I personally don't even like.

Halo is a mediocre game. Always has been, and unless they pull the kind of thing that the CoD people did, it always will be. It's OK, but it's pretty much just the same as every other FPS. Same controls, same story, same weapons, same everything. Resistance at least had some cool guns, and CoD4 has the BEST controls I've ever used on an FPS. Sure, they don't have the fancy multiplayer bells and whistles that Halo does, but when your core gameplay sucks, who cares about being able to take videos in the middle of a match?

Eirikr
Finally, real gamers don't play Halo? I've been playing since NES, I've beaten Megaman 2, I own about every nintendo sytem and then some, I own and have played every odd numbered Final fantasy, Bioshock, Oblivion, Super Paper Mario, all the Kirby games(except Dreamland 3), and I'm currently playing Ikaruga. I'm more of a gamer than 90% of the people on this thread.

I didn't say don't PLAY, I said don't LOVE. Most "hardcore" or whatever you want to call it gamers admit that Halo isn't the giant super god game that everyone else likes to pretend that it is. And like I said before, I speak in generalities instead of absolutes. I admit that some people who have played other games and still really love Halo. It's just that they're not the majority.

Eirikr
Halo is not just for 12 year olds. Granted, that's mostly who plays it, but it's still fun.

Mostly implies a generality, which is what I was using. So you just agreed with me on all points except "Halo sux".

I was going to say something witty here, but it looks like my ass has been thouroughly owned.

Lord Shplane
Halo is a mediocre game. Always has been, and unless they pull the kind of thing that the CoD people did, it always will be. It's OK, but it's pretty much just the same as every other FPS. Same controls, same story, same weapons, same everything. Resistance at least had some cool guns, and CoD4 has the BEST controls I've ever used on an FPS. Sure, they don't have the fancy multiplayer bells and whistles that Halo does, but when your core gameplay sucks, who cares about being able to take videos in the middle of a match

You do know Resistance and Call of Duty are exactly like Halo, right? All the games mentioned above Have the same controls, same story, same weapons, and pretty much, same everything as all the other shooters out there. I could go as far as saying that ALL fps are the same as the Halo series, Half Life? Same. Half Life 2? Same. All the classic first person shooters that are regarded as the best at their time? Same.

All FPS games are the same, all come from one source, Doom. That source was evolved in Duke Nukem 3D, then expanded on in Unreal Tournament, then shined up in Half Life. All current shooters are basically the milestones in the FPS genre mashed together. Nothing more, nothing less. The only worthwhile game that added something new to the concept of FPS was Portal... and even then, that was only a new gun.

The only thing that a first person shooter can do to make itself seem innovative is, well, to put it bluntly, have shiny graphics and multiplayer. Halo, Resistance, Call of Duty 4, BioShock, FEAR, and Doom 3 are nothing more than run of the mil shooting games that looked good for their month. Some had great graphics, other had fantastic multiplayer, none of them will be remembered years from now.

tl;dr no shooting game is ZOMG BEST EVER as they are all the same.

Terminal

Lord Shplane
Halo is a mediocre game. Always has been, and unless they pull the kind of thing that the CoD people did, it always will be. It's OK, but it's pretty much just the same as every other FPS. Same controls, same story, same weapons, same everything. Resistance at least had some cool guns, and CoD4 has the BEST controls I've ever used on an FPS. Sure, they don't have the fancy multiplayer bells and whistles that Halo does, but when your core gameplay sucks, who cares about being able to take videos in the middle of a match

You do know Resistance and Call of Duty are exactly like Halo, right? All the games mentioned above Have the same controls, same story, same weapons, and pretty much, same everything as all the other shooters out there. I could go as far as saying that ALL fps are the same as the Halo series, Half Life? Same. Half Life 2? Same. All the classic first person shooters that are regarded as the best at their time? Same.

All FPS games are the same, all come from one source, Doom. That source was evolved in Duke Nukem 3D, then expanded on in Unreal Tournament, then shined up in Half Life. All current shooters are basically the milestones in the FPS genre mashed together. Nothing more, nothing less. The only worthwhile game that added something new to the concept of FPS was Portal... and even then, that was only a new gun.

The only thing that a first person shooter can do to make itself seem innovative is, well, to put it bluntly, have shiny graphics and multiplayer. Halo, Resistance, Call of Duty 4, BioShock, FEAR, and Doom 3 are nothing more than run of the mil shooting games that looked good for their month. Some had great graphics, other had fantastic multiplayer, none of them will be remembered years from now.

tl;dr no shooting game is ZOMG BEST EVER as they are all the same.

I wouldn't say ZOMG BEST EVER. I would simply say that Resistance and CoD4 are better than Halo. CoD4's controls, while similar to most other FPS's, work MUCH better than any other I've ever used. And Resistance had some AWESOME guns, many of which were nothing like any I've ever used before. The Hailstorm? Awesome. The Auger? Also awesome. Hell, even the rocket launcher did something cool that I've never seen before.

I will admit that Portal is probably the most innovative First Person game in recent years (Wouldn't call it a shooter, it looks like more of a puzzle game to me), and that neither Resistance NOR CoD4 really did MUCH to set themselves apart from the rest of the pack, but they at least did more than Halo, which does NOTHING to make its self different. It just managed to get popular somehow. It's probably the same thing that happened with FFVII, in which a GOOD RPG was hailed as super-special sexy awesome. Why? lolidunno. But it happens.

tl;dr Halo is a game that does NOTHING new, and NOTHING better than any of its rivals. CoD4 and Resistance do very LITTLE new or better, but at least a bit more than Halo.

For gods sake Shplane just shut the fuck up and spare us your fanboy style bashing.

Terminal
*insert rant here*

I have to agree entirely. I love first person shooters a ton, but there isn't much innovation that's found in the genre at all. That being said, it's quite possibly the most addictive genre out there.

To be honest, the same could be said about the RTS category. While, C+C and Age of Empires have different systems for gathering resources and building things, the core gameplay ends up being the same.

@Shaplane
To say that Halo did absolutely nothing to differentiate itself from other FPSs in comparison to Resistance or COD doesn't make much sense.

Maybe you're forgetting this:

-Health regeneration. You can't help but notice that virtually every new FPS borrows this.

-The manner in which vehicles were used in combat/multiplayer (BF 1942 was first, but the vehicles in there were a lot less arcade-like)

Don't get me wrong, Resistance and COD4 are great games, but they're not all that innovative. The same goes for Halo.

Halo 3 didn't bring much to the table at all, except a more refined Halo experience than 1 and 2. That's what sequels do. Nonetheless, I'd still take TF2, HL2 or even the original FarCry over it.

gigatwo
*STUFFS*

Like I said, Resistance and CoD4 don't do much either. I just think they do a little more than Halo. No FPS is that innovative, but Halo is even worse than others.

Lord Shplane
Like I said, Resistance and CoD4 don't do much either. I just think they do a little more than Halo. No FPS is that innovative, but Halo is even worse than others.

Like I was saying, I feel Halo was more innovative than COD4 and Resistance, because hell even they copied the health regeneration deal that Halo introduced to the genre. Resistance's guns are cool, but I think Halo contributed more to the genre as a whole. COD4 is just an "America's Army" game that's actually fun to play. (AA got really frustrating) It's not an innovative game as far as I'm concerned, it was just really well done.

gigatwo

Lord Shplane
Like I said, Resistance and CoD4 don't do much either. I just think they do a little more than Halo. No FPS is that innovative, but Halo is even worse than others.

Like I was saying, I feel Halo was more innovative than COD4 and Resistance, because hell even they copied the health regeneration deal that Halo introduced to the genre. Resistance's guns are cool, but I think Halo contributed more to the genre as a whole. COD4 is just an "America's Army" game that's actually fun to play. (AA got really frustrating) It's not an innovative game as far as I'm concerned, it was just really well done.

I can see what you're saying about Halo 1. It DID add in a few things. But after that, 2 and 3 didn't add anything at all. And then there's the fact that, despite doing new things, Halo 1 wasn't really that FUN. Really though, I'm sick of caring. Let's stop.

OK.

Lord Shplane
But after that, 2 and 3 didn't add anything at all.

FINAL WORD: Call of Duty really hasn't changed from the first literation either. Call of Duty 4 is basically Call of Duty 3 with more scripted events.

Terminal
FINAL WORD: Call of Duty really hasn't changed from the first literation either. Call of Duty 4 is basically Call of Duty 3 with more scripted events.

FINAL, FINAL WORD: ABJGAWA!