Nearly every movie, comic, novel, fictional story has a plot, no matter how thick, no matter how shallow, nearly all have one. Why is it so needed? I feel like my imaginations is being conformed and structured to fit in with the rules of conflict-resolution. I have tried many times to think up a good story without a plot, and it turns into either crap, or just "a day/month/time in the life of..." How can I get rid of these boundaries and let my imagination really run free?
I do believe it can.

Perhaps you need to put away any preconcieved ideas you have of how your comic should be viewed by others, and just create something that speaks from you... however original or generic that might.

ParkerFarker
good story without a plot,

I'll put this for you idiocracy style;
A movie about a butt farting for 82 minutes can be entertaining, but we have plots to make the audience care about the butt and why it's farting.

If you want to go all invader zim spork spork ramdom i'm bi deal w/ it! style that's fine, but you'd still have a plot even though it makes no sense. You shouldn't think of it as your imagination being restricted but rather being tapered into something other people can understand. You don't even need conflict-resolution you can have have a small metaphor about a guy selling ice cream relating to something else in his life.

So basically i'm saying plots are the good guys.

No matter what, if you're writing a story you're going to have a plot. It's part of the definition and structure of a story really. A limited context automatically has a beginning and ending, and if you leave out the plot and pull a Warhol where you just show someone brushing their teeth with no plot involved for 4 hours, it's not likely to be much more than a repetition of a few panels or frames.

As Skullbie put it, a butt farting for 82 minutes is just that, a butt farting. It's not a story until you add the plot to give it a meaning.

lba
It's part of the definition and structure of a story really.

yeah, but is it possible to break that and yet have a compelling and interesting story? I think it is possible but very hard to do.

Skullbie
I'll put this for you idiocracy style;

Do I sound like an idiot? awwwwww :(

ParkerFarker

lba
It's part of the definition and structure of a story really.

yeah, but is it possible to break that and yet have a compelling and interesting story? I think it is possible but very hard to do.

Well, I'm interested to know. How would you think one goes about creating an interesting story that's completely devoided of plot?

Product Placement

ParkerFarker

lba
It's part of the definition and structure of a story really.

yeah, but is it possible to break that and yet have a compelling and interesting story? I think it is possible but very hard to do.

Well, I'm interested to know. How do you think one goes about to create an interesting story that's completely devoided of plot?

I don't know. I just think it's possible. Like maybe if... no. I don't know. I think someone could do it, but I don't think me.

You know what? I am planning on making a new comic soon. I will try as hard as I can to leave out the plot but not the good. Just check back on me in a week or so.

I think we could prolly move this to the lit section or the media section... I'm not sure which.

Anyway, yes you can have a story, movie or whatever without plot.
-Plotting out a story makes it easier to get ideas across and to make an interesting tale for someone, but you can do it without one, it's been done before. The trouble is that when you go plotless your project has limited appeal. -It's generally limited to extremely art-house projects or straight out artistic ones.

You can do things like have a bunch of truly randomly collected scenes, (not the kiddy idea of random), put them in a random order (again, truly random), or even allow the "readers" or viewers to choose their own, and they will invent their own narrative and plot.

...Or more likely- get bored and move along to something else. :)

In my experience the only avenues of storytelling which have managed to remove plot have been those arty farty post modern types (you know, the kind I studied endlessly at art school) and Porn...

So just write porn and really nobody will give a shit if you leave out the plot!

I think you need some definitions here. To me, the distinction between a plot and a story (if there is any distinction at all!) is pretty fine.

You can have a comic or a movie or a book without a plot. I'm really not convinced you can have a story without one though. How are you defining your terms?

DAJB
You can have a comic or a movie or a book without a plot. I'm really not convinced you can have a story without one though. How are you defining your terms?

Yep, you can. As in my example, you get the views to create their own plot, but you can have a "story" in mind for the thing, just a pretty loose one.

Hah, say you come up with a story for some characters... You make up the characters, your story theme is "heist gone wrong", then you get a whole lot of different writers to write their own versions of different scenes in this heist, all with the same characters, in the same setting.
Then you just jumble them up. It doesn't matter if their are continuity errors, because there will be no matter what and that'll add to the fun! The viewer will interpret it any way they want.
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But that's a pretty technical way to do it. I've read my share of stories without much plot- more literary stuff where you just have characters interacting, speaking. You don't really 'plot" those sorts of stories.

I have another example of a plotless story. I was seriously going to do this and might yet give it a try some day. A young man or woman gets lands an incredibly strenuous and dangerous job and . . . that's it. We watch as he or she learns the ins and outs of the work and interacts with co-workers and faces dangers and manages to overcome them and gradually becomes experienced and competent. End of plotless story.

The main problem with it is that at some point the story has run its course and you find that you either have to do something very new with the character or let the completed story drop.

Another example of plotless cartooning is, of course, the gag a day comic strip concept.

Even porn has a plot. It's pretty thin but there is a discernable plot. A sequence of events is all it is. It doesn't have to lead anywhere or mean anything. You could go for picaresue like Don Quixote Huckleberry Finn and Pulp Fiction (Each one being a journey, but you could mix the sequence of events in Don Quiote and Huckleberry and not really change the story) Then there's Vonnegut, Heller and New Wave Sci-fi (some Michael Moorcock springs to mind)from the 1960s-early 1970s.

You could so deeply immerse the plot in the writing that the reader is aware only of the stories until the end; which can be sudden, make no sense, and tie up nothing. (for porn the climax is the cum shot. Couldn't resist :) ) That WTF moment which leaves a lot of readers intrigued or hating what they read.

No beginning, no middle and no end but things happen in sequence. But that doesn't mean you have to show every cause and every effect or even show things in sequence (as long as you remember it so you can keep track of where you've been and where you're going) and things don't have to make sense. Stream of consciousness?

CharleyHorse
I have another example of a plotless story. I was seriously going to do this and might yet give it a try some day. A young man or woman gets lands an incredibly strenuous and dangerous job and . . . that's it. We watch as he or she learns the ins and outs of the work and interacts with co-workers and faces dangers and manages to overcome them and gradually becomes experienced and competent. End of plotless story.

The main problem with it is that at some point the story has run its course and you find that you either have to do something very new with the character or let the completed story drop.

Another example of plotless cartooning is, of course, the gag a day comic strip concept.

You know, I see a plot there. The plot is a person, learning to cope his new job and, like you say, gradually becomes experienced and competent in it.

Doesn't that qualify as a plot?

This is why I said, for a question like this, you need to have definitions. In every one of the examples given so far, I'd say there is a plot. It may not be a very interesting or satisfactory one, but there is a plot. Obviously some of you guys disagree but then you must be using different criteria to me. Even in the example where the readers dicatate the course of the action, there is a plot. It just happens to be a plot written by the readers rather than the artist.

The gag a day strip can be without a plot, of course, (and most of them are!) but then that's because very few of them are stories either. It still seems to me that the plot and the story are very much the same thing.

from Dictionary.com:

plot: noun; Also called storyline. the plan, scheme, or main story of a literary or dramatic work, as a play, novel, or short story.

there is no distinction.
a comic without plot is just a sketchbook.
a movie without plot is just a home movie.
a book without plot is a journal.

but context will always drive or imply plot.

DAJB
This is why I said, for a question like this, you need to have definitions. In every one of the examples given so far, I'd say there is a plot.

I don't see my mixed up heist scenario as having a "plot".

And Midge, sorry man, but you're not really getting that definition right ;)

Oxford English dictionary say: that a "plot" is the "plan" of a story or poem or play.

There is a distinction, or there would not be different terms used for these things. They're not synonyms.
The thing about "main story" and "storyline" in your dictionary.com definition are just poor writing by whoever wrote them.

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What you do when constructing a story is you plot out what happens during the thing. But as discussed, there are ways around that, and instead you let the viewer/reader discern their own.

But, as this is a comics site, not many of the people here really think in terms of more arty projects in writing and film... :(

@ Ozone, I am afraid you are wrong.
you are trying to make a distinction where there is none.
its all a semantic game, if you will.
they are synonymous.
check for here for listings of online dictionaries for the definition of the word "storyline"
you might find a common theme.
there are 2 words because "plot" means other things apart from "storyline", such as evil plan or a piece of land.

Ozone
And Midge, sorry man, but you're not really getting that definition right

Oxford English dictionary say: that a "plot" is the "plan" of a story or poem or play.

There is a distinction, or there would not be different terms used for these things. They're not synonyms.
The thing about "main story" and "storyline" in your dictionary.com definition are just poor writing by whoever wrote them.

But the point really is that anything can be given a plot or a storyline depending on context. The butt farting for 83 min as Skullbie inspired presented could by one viewer to be found a riveting story or plot. Its all interpretation.
But as humans we will not be able to get away from the way we see things or interpret them. To do so one would have to be void of all understanding or context as a newborn, and believe me I have read many books for my daughter and some may seem to be plot-less or no storyline, but my daughter loves them. To me they seem plot-less or is that pointless, like the ABC book, but my daughter is always intrigued as to what the next page would be. To her there is a plot or the storyline of the book.

No I think Ozone is right. Many words can be classified as synonyms but they do mean slightly different things. Like "high" and "tall" and "elevated" are synonymous to each other and yet they mean slightly different things. "Plot" and "story", I don't think, are synonyms.

TheMidge28
But the point really is that anything can be given plot or a storyline depending on context.

You say anything can be given plot, but not everything has to have plot.

"plot" and "storyline" are synonyms.
http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=story+line

what is the definition of storyline: plot
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/storyline
what is the definition of plot:storyline
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plot

if that isn't synonymous then what is it?

as to everything doesn't have to have a plot, you are right but given the insertion of a viewer, reader, etc; their pov will project context and create their own narrative, plot/storyline or what have you.

One dictionary website is not proof that the two are synonyms. I think the Oxford English dictionary is more proof than Dictionary.com.

ParkerFarker
One dictionary website is not proof that the two are synonyms. I think the Oxford English dictionary is more proof than Dictionary.com.

okay sparky, here's the site which links to a number of online dictionaries and thesaurus.

http://www.onelook.com/?w=STORYLINE&ls=a

check common theme.

and oxford says plot is the "plan" of the story... i.e. "Storyline"
geez has education and logic dropped so drastically in the US school system?!

I'm not talking about a storyline, storyline and plot are basically the same. I'm talking about a story. read before you write.
"Sparkey"? what the fuck?
And as much as I hate saying this, I go to a really rich school. (The U.N. is paying for our rent, we definitely couldn't afford to) and rich schools are good schools. However, I have more logic and common sense then most of the Americans at the school. They can find the type of seed (monocotyledon or dicotyledon) a plant has just by looking at a leaf, and yet they can't cross a road for their life.

The story is WHAT happens...

The plot is HOW it happens...

or differently...

One of the things that every writer needs to know is the difference between story and plot. It’s very easy to confuse the two and many people often do, most typically the blue-suited penguins knowns as movie producers and studio executives. So what is the difference between story and plot?

Writer E.M. Forster once wrote in Aspects of the Novel, defined a story as ‘a narrative of events arranged in their time sequence.’ Forster wrote: ‘it (a story) can only have one merit: that of making the audience want to know what happens next. “The king died and then the queen died” is a story.’

‘A plot’, Forster wrote, ‘is also a narrative of events, the emphasis falling on causality.’ Thus, ‘“The king died and then the queen died” is a story.’ But ‘“The king died, and then the queen died of grief’ is a plot. The time-sequence is preserved, but the sense of causality overshadows it.’

You can read the rest here, I omitted it cause it could be considered spoilerish as it goes over a couple of movies as examples.
http://cinemoose.com/plot-vs-story/

Also, causality. From Wikipedia:

Causality denotes a necessary relationship between one event (called cause) and another event (called effect) which is the direct consequence of the first.

a series of events in time = story. a series of events in time connected by cause and effect = plot. At least that's how I understand it.

A series of photos taken of one room every morning will tell the story of that room, document the changes in it. There's no plot there though, unless you document how the changes were made.

Also, storyline is the "plot of the story" thus it's synonymous with plot but not synonymous with story.


At least that's how I understand it.

ParkerFarker
I'm not talking about a storyline, storyline and plot are basically the same. I'm talking about a story. read before you write.

I'm glad you finally agree. :)
Hey, note the word "plot" in Bold.

ParkerFarker
Nearly every movie, comic, novel, fictional story has a plot, no matter how thick, no matter how shallow, nearly all have one. Why is it so needed? I feel like my imaginations is being conformed and structured to fit in with the rules of conflict-resolution. I have tried many times to think up a good story without a plot, and it turns into either crap, or just "a day/month/time in the life of..." How can I get rid of these boundaries and let my imagination really run free?
I do believe it can.

My responses were regarding the terms "plot" and "storyline". Has been in every one of my posts. Earlier in the thread Ozone was stating there is a distinction. I was merely stating otherwise. You were asking about having something created which didn't have plot/storyline. So to respond, please read and follow the thread you started and keep to the point you were originally asking for.

As to your schooling I assumed you were from an American school.
My apologies.

So to get back to the point of the thread, people bring with them context and will project plot and storyline even when there is not one intended.

EDIT: also "Sparky" is a term of an endearment, for me. ;)
love! love! Have fun! don't get too uptight over this discussion.

You could always just try illustrating this forum thread and turning THAT into your new comic...

I think Aurora puts it well, his quotes do too. But in which case it would be more like documenting the time and unrelated events of something.

TheMidge28
As to your schooling I assumed you were from an American school.
My apologies.

EDIT: also "Sparky" is a term of an endearment, for me. ;)
love! love! Have fun! don't get too uptight over this discussion.

I do go to an American school... In America, and I have for 3 years.

And I guess maybe I was getting worked up about this discussion 'cause your avatar is so serious and it's like he's looking down on me hahaha.

Ryan, it could work, it could work.

Someone
You know, I see a plot there. The plot is a person, learning to cope his new job and, like you say, gradually becomes experienced and competent in it.

Doesn't that qualify as a plot?

Not in any meaningful way because there is no real point to the activity aside from getter better at one's job and surviving it day by day. There is no antagonist as such and no goal that means anything of any particular significance.

It depends on how nitpicking you want to get over the concept of a plot, though. An argument CAN be made that it is a plot but then an argument can ALSO be made that masturbation is a form of love.

CharleyHorse
An argument CAN be made that it is a plot but then an argument can ALSO be made that masturbation is a form of love.

hahahaahaha I was not prepared for that last bit. But Yeah I agree with you too, I am kind of stuck in between Aurora's views and yours, CharleyHorse.

When you consider it in a very abstract way, there is a bit of a hierarchy here.

A story typically consists of a sequence of events which denotes some sort of chronology, regardless of whether or not those events are in a logical order. A plot is a similar in that it is also a series of events but with a slightly different focus on what part of those events it looks at. Still no necessary logical order. So what you end up seeing is that a plot, at least by the definitions Aurora gave is a story but with a extra element. They're both narratives of events, but the plot tosses in an extra by looking at why it's happening. Both have a rising and falling action, both tell a narrative. However, while you might have a story without plot, it will tend to lack a critical element to really make it interesting. Thus, it is highly probable that people will add causality to the story in their own mind or by the nature of the author's attempts to describe the events fully. Beyond the concept that a plot is subordinate to story ( ie, cannot exist without it. ) you have to look at what makes up the two concepts.

Basically, what I'm saying is that both of them only require one thing which is a series of events and that you can't have a plot without a story, but without plot the story isn't so much a story as we understand and see it as a chronology or timeline. So, if you want to get all technical and split hairs here, yeah, you can tell a story without plot, but if you're going by the accepted convention of general human consensus, no you can't. At that level, it depends on how you view what constitutes the right answer as rule formulated organically by society or rule formulated by academia.

Forster's example isn't all that great either it seems. "The King died and then the Queen died" seems far more like a statement rather than a story to me. But I like 95% of the populace operate by the societal rules rather than the academic rules. I personally think it might be more accurate to say that you can have a storyline without a plot, defining storyline as the sequence of events, the plot as addition of causality and story as the overall structure in which storyline and plot are found. In that case, you can't have a story without a plot, but you can have the storyline without it since the storyline is just the chronological listing of events that Forster called a story.

But that's kind like saying Vicodin is the exact same as Hydrocodon. For most people it's true because the only difference is the name, but for a doctor or someone with pharmacological knowledge there's a difference.