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Misogynist Comic Bingo!
Mondo_Funky at 9:45AM, Sept. 5, 2010
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Sexism in fiction is a big pet peeve for me, and the whole "MUSCLES BOOBS ASS" direction most superhero artists take is part of what's bored me with the genre in recent years.

While I agree with girl-wonder.org's message, it's followers have a habit of taking things waaay too seriously. Like when Karen Healey went on a lengthy blog rant accusing Brian Bendis of sexism, because he joked that his letterers weren't allowed to cover a woman's butt with a word balloon if it was drawn by Frank Cho. (Although if you've seen Frank Cho's work, you know that his butts are no joke)

And then there's stuff like this:

girl-wonder.org
If you do not have at least two female characters, and they do not discuss something other than the male characters, your story is sexist.


(not an exact quote, but it's almost verbatim)

Again, I agree with it in spirit. Your story probably SHOULD have those, and every writer should put serious thought into the way they portray things like race and gender. But the notion that every story has to pass a Political Correctness Checklist, while well-intentioned, is ultimately harmful, and leads to a lot of insincerity in writing. Like Ray Bradbury said, there's more than one way to burn a book, and if you find yourself changing a story because of what someone ELSE thinks instead of what YOU think, you've stopped being an artist (or at least a good one).

That said...yeah, comis, and art in general, can be sexist as hell. But look on the bright side: In a few short years we'll have an entire generation of new writers and artists who grew up on Neil Gaiman and others who treated gender in both a fair and honest way.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Genejoke at 10:06AM, Sept. 5, 2010
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Warpedwenger
I believe that the system favors women from what I've seen. My best friend Jared lost his job recently because a girl at work told the boss he sexually harrassed her. He didn't... She was angry at him and decided she didn't want him around anymore. Why was she angry? Because he refused to sleep with her after a random meeting at a bar. Jared had worked that job for many years and he was really good at it. He lost it simply because a woman didn't like him. There will always be violent crimes and people who hate women these things are not an arguement against a system that is set up against men. Racism and sexism will always exist because there will always be evil. In the USA they have been suppressed as much as possible.

A note Harkovasts interest in this issue seems to be very personal. What's your vendetta? Why do you hate your own gender?


It can work both ways, a woman in the town I live in was jailed recently for crying rape. She had sex with a squaddie in an alleyway and regretted it and went to the police and said he raped her. Luckily for him the club had cctv footage of them in the club and leaving the club, all of it showing her pushing things forward. He got off and she got 2 years inside. Job done.

Similarly a friend of mine got accused of rape by a girl he slept with and while it never made it to court he got beaten up several times just because of the accusation and sacked from his job. She later admitted it was a lie and that she did it because he ditched her after sleeping with her. Still to this day (nearly ten years on) every so often he gets called a rapist.

Shit sticks even when it is a lie.


New comic alert. [..]
[..]
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:33PM
The Gravekeeper at 4:29PM, Sept. 5, 2010
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Mondo_Funky
And then there's stuff like this:

girl-wonder.org
If you do not have at least two female characters, and they do not discuss something other than the male characters, your story is sexist.


(not an exact quote, but it's almost verbatim)




Hoo boy is that ever a misinterpretation of the original idea. The Bechdel Test was conceived more or less to help increase awareness about how often women are kind of "forgotten" in entertainment, not to shoehorn them into every single TV show, movie, etc even if the premise of the work is such that it'd make little to no sense for them to be there (eg- a story set in a male maximum security prison. Sure, women could be visitors, but odds are good that the plot's going to revolve around the prisoners). The secondary goal is to get writers to realize that women are just...people. Just write people and it quickly becomes apparent that writing characters that aren't your gender isn't that difficult. Any writer worth their salt can comfortably write believable characters of either sex.

Remember: just because something doesn't have 2 female characters doesn't mean it's sexist, and just because something does have at least 2 female characters who talk about something other than a man doesn't mean that it's a feminist work. And no, not everything has to pass the Bechdel Test, but it would be nice to see more things that do. Once that issue gets properly addressed, who knows what's next? Maybe we'll actually see more disabled characters getting played by actors that are, themselves, disabled. Maybe we'll see TV shows and films about ethnic minorities where the creators don't feel like they need to have a white main character for the audience to relate to (because, y'know, only white people watch TV and movies, and they can't possibly relate to another human being with a different skin colour than them).
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:14PM
Mondo_Funky at 7:17PM, Sept. 5, 2010
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Not to mention that stories with good female characters are a hell of a lot more interesting than those without. I mean, which would you rather watch: A movie about an intelligent, witty young woman, or Sandra Bullock Falls Down And Tries To Get A Man: The IMAX Experience?
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
mlai at 8:19PM, Sept. 5, 2010
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You know what I'm sick and tired of? Near-sighted character played by actors with perfect vision!

Case in point, the himbo archaeologist guy in Stargate series! C'mon, one look at his spectacles and you know they're just flat pieces of glass! How fake can you get! Total immersion breaker! It's as bad as the "ugly pretty girl" in teen movies. What, you think you look smart now just because you have fake glasses!?

That's why I could never take that guy seriously. That and he's prettier than the actual character in the movie, who looked appropriately brainy.

Next thing you know Brad Pitt is gonna play the main in a Bill Gates biographical. This is visual acuitism!

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Dark Pascual at 9:56PM, Sept. 5, 2010
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I would like to mention my opinion about certain points, and with that I think I will leave this discussion, since I don't think I can say anything important beyond this.

-I think both Warpedwenger and Genejoke bring some valid points about how some women may abuse a system that it's intended to protect them in the first place against a valid threat on our society. I don't think that the percentage of rape claims that end being fakes reported by vengeful and angry women is as big as the rape accusations that end up being legit, but I would agree that there is a notion of "Guilty until proven innocent" related to sexual crimes that should be put on check. Those fake claims not only harm innocent men, but also hurt the seek of a social and legal equality.

-I don't think that admit that there is still sexism in our society and try to do something means that we as men hate our own gender. There is no amount of Feminism in the world that would make me feel guilty or less proud of be a man just because I'm a man. But being a man also means be willing to speak your mind about things you don't agree.

-While I think that the Bechdel Test is an useful tool in writing, to think that is the magical formula to have a feminist show is highly idiotic. "The Hills" passes the Test, would you tell me that "The Hills" is a feminist show?

-I agree that there are points where the search for absolute equality and "Political Correctness" on media are reaching levels of hilarious stupidity. Yes, stories with several points of view of different people with different backgrounds enriches the narrative. That being said, I highly doubt that a Viking ship on the XII century would have a sassy black woman as captain... Just saying.

-I like my Hollywood females scientist hot AND with glasses, thank you very much.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:07PM
bravo1102 at 6:15AM, Sept. 6, 2010
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Warpedwenger
A note Harkovasts interest in this issue seems to be very personal. What's your vendetta? Why do you hate your own gender?


He has a successful marriage. ;) In order to make marriage work a man often has to be very self-deprecating.

After all if a man talks in the woods and there's no woman to listen to him is he still wrong?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Mondo_Funky at 8:46AM, Sept. 6, 2010
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Dark Pascual
That being said, I highly doubt that a Viking ship on the XII century would have a sassy black woman as captain... Just saying.


You just described my unfinished screenplay.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:07PM
Warpedwenger at 1:43PM, Sept. 6, 2010
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bravo1102
Warpedwenger
A note Harkovasts interest in this issue seems to be very personal. What's your vendetta? Why do you hate your own gender?


He has a successful marriage. ;) In order to make marriage work a man often has to be very self-deprecating.

After all if a man talks in the woods and there's no woman to listen to him is he still wrong?

I had a successful marriage for almost 5 years. I was so good to my ex that she started to resent me. She said I was TOO PERFECT and that she hated tryin to keep up. Her resentment turned to hatred and she would tell me things like that her ex had a bigger penis and I could never really please her. Then finally she left me and divorced me on my birthday. I was suicially depressed for 2 years until I ended up in a mental hospital and finally got over the mental anguish only recently.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:47PM
mlai at 7:36PM, Sept. 6, 2010
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I had a successful marriage for almost 5 years.

That's not an example of a "successful marriage"...

After all if a man talks in the woods and there's no woman to listen to him is he still wrong?

Depends on if there's a bear there?

FIGHT current chapter: Filling In The Gaps
FIGHT_2 current chapter: Light Years of Gold
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
Warpedwenger at 8:08PM, Sept. 6, 2010
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It is by todays standards.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:47PM
bravo1102 at 8:41AM, Sept. 7, 2010
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Warpedwenger
It is by todays standards.


Hardly. You have to make it past five-seven years. Mine almost disintegrated at that point and we got therapy, defined the problems, solved them and fought to save our marriage. We worked together and we had to admit we were wrong and were playing games and had to change. I could go into all the stuff I've picked up in my years of therapy because sounds like your ex and I had a lot in common ten years ago.

A marriage is hard work. I gotta write some scripts about this but I have to figure out how to put it into B-movie Sci-fi/horror movie plot formula.

@ Mondo funky and Dark Pascual: too late Robert E. Howard did it with his female pirate character back in the Conan stories seventy-eighty years ago. Hard to believe it was that long ago and people think it's a new idea and a new problem. And we all still copy the sex roles in Edgar Rice Burroughs stories, or Charlotte Bronte or 1930's pulps... laughable. Have we come so far?
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
Dark Pascual at 9:18AM, Sept. 7, 2010
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bravo1102
@ Mondo funky and Dark Pascual: too late Robert E. Howard did it with his female pirate character back in the Conan stories seventy-eighty years ago. Hard to believe it was that long ago and people think it's a new idea and a new problem. And we all still copy the sex roles in Edgar Rice Burroughs stories, or Charlotte Bronte or 1930's pulps... laughable. Have we come so far?


That's why I said Vikings on the XII Century... not Pirates on the Hyborian Age...
[..]
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:07PM
bravo1102 at 6:17PM, Sept. 7, 2010
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Dark Pascual
bravo1102
@ Mondo funky and Dark Pascual: too late Robert E. Howard did it with his female pirate character back in the Conan stories seventy-eighty years ago. Hard to believe it was that long ago and people think it's a new idea and a new problem. And we all still copy the sex roles in Edgar Rice Burroughs stories, or Charlotte Bronte or 1930's pulps... laughable. Have we come so far?


That's why I said Vikings on the XII Century... not Pirates on the Hyborian Age...


Didn't you ever see that movie from the 1960s with Richard Widmark as a viking with Sidney Portier as his sidekick?

We'll do a remake with Beyonce. Or how about a few Varangian Vikings on a ship in the Indian Ocean with a crew from Ethiopia and Arabia? Oh wait, that actually happened in the 12th Century, sorry. ;)
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:34AM
Dark Pascual at 9:36PM, Sept. 7, 2010
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bravo1102
Dark Pascual
bravo1102
@ Mondo funky and Dark Pascual: too late Robert E. Howard did it with his female pirate character back in the Conan stories seventy-eighty years ago. Hard to believe it was that long ago and people think it's a new idea and a new problem. And we all still copy the sex roles in Edgar Rice Burroughs stories, or Charlotte Bronte or 1930's pulps... laughable. Have we come so far?


That's why I said Vikings on the XII Century... not Pirates on the Hyborian Age...


Didn't you ever see that movie from the 1960s with Richard Widmark as a viking with Sidney Portier as his sidekick?

We'll do a remake with Beyonce. Or how about a few Varangian Vikings on a ship in the Indian Ocean with a crew from Ethiopia and Arabia? Oh wait, that actually happened in the 12th Century, sorry. ;)


I hate you so much right now...

Just kidding, glad to know some history I wasn't aware of.
[..]
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:07PM
harkovast at 1:39PM, Sept. 9, 2010
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I think this video sums up the whole issue!


For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:44PM
Warpedwenger at 2:28PM, Sept. 9, 2010
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HAHAHAHAHAHA
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:47PM
elektro at 3:39PM, Sept. 9, 2010
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harkovast
I think this video sums up the whole issue!




Yep, that about sums it up.

(Jon Lajoie is great)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:21PM
harkovast at 1:14PM, Sept. 10, 2010
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My marriage is great.
Maybe that explains that difference of opinion I am having with some people here.

For more Harkovast related goings on, go to the Harkovast Forum
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:44PM
Warpedwenger at 7:32PM, Sept. 10, 2010
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No prob that's why I ask I think it's good to understand where somebody is coming from.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:47PM
God of War at 11:55AM, Sept. 14, 2010
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Nerd is a geek without social skills.

Yes, there is sexism in comics. Yes, it pisses me off.
I will not hide it out, I'm not one of those "holy and clean" people who doesn't watch porn. I read hentai, okay? But I hate when comics that aren't supposed to be porn apply porn standards. I hate pointless fanservice for the sake of fanservice (if you have to, at last play it for laughs). I hate that all women have to wear as much skimpy outfits as possible with stupid boob windows. I hate how Supergirl wears mini-skirt showing half of her hips and looking like stick only with magic. I hate how all women how to wear high heels in comics. I hate how 75% of super-villainess we get are seductress-types who wants to have sex with protagonist, no matter protagonist's gender. I hate Women In Refigators, I hate how women are potrayed either as weak and helpless or man-heting feminazis. And I hate lot of related stuff.And the fact that everybody is doing it is just disgustin.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:38PM

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