From LitG:
http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18583

Quote:
So. If Marvel comics are heading towards a standard $3.99 price point... and if so, DC Comics will trot along a month or two afterwards... is this really too expensive for a modern comic? Is $2.99 too expensive?

It's a common complaint for people to talk about how much cheaper comics were when they were younger, and just as common is the recognition that everything used to be cheaper, that's what inflation is about, our income rises with it, it's all about how prices have changed in real terms.

So let's find out!

In 1977 Amazing Spider-Man cost 30 cents. Let's see what happens when we apply the US rate of inflation of the previous year to the price compared to what the comics actually cost.

Year Cover Price Rate of Inflation

1977 0.30 - 0.30

1980 0.40 - 0.38

1986 0.65 - 0.57

1991 1 - 0.69

1995 1.5 - 0.78

2000 1.99 - 0.88

2001 2.25 - 0.91

2008 2.99 - 1.09

2009 3.99?

Wow. Now of course, there's a higher page count, the print quality is better, the colouring technology is out of this world, but still. In real terms, at least as defined by US inflation, your comic should be just over a buck. And yet it may well be about to hit $4.
And double the 2000 price.
Ouch.
The chart is a little better on the web page.

The trouble is, people still pay it. I haven't bought a pamphlet style monthly comic for decades because, for me, the value for money just isn't there.

But, read any of the forums frequented by those who do, and you'll find there are still people out there who buy dozens of comics every month, proudly quoting the size of their "pull list" and even taking a strange kind of pride in the fact that they spend anything up to US $60 per month on feeding their addiction.

At that price, DC and Marvel will continue to fail to attract the new younger readers they need to survive in the long term. But, as long as the older fanboys out there are willing to throw around that kind of money, they make it pretty difficult for the Big Two to change tack.

DAJB
But, read any of the forums frequented by those who do, and you'll find there are still people out there who buy dozens of comics every month, proudly quoting the size of their "pull list" and even taking a strange kind of pride in the fact that they spend anything up to US $60 per month on feeding their addiction.

hey i actually do that...and the trend ive noticed is, people dont do it to show what they are buying...most of it is a wish list, then they will show what they are actually most likely to get...i always have porn on my pull list lol. and i havent bought a pamphlet comic since all star batman and robin issue 9...

this is just bad news all over. 4 bucks for 22 pages? at that price, theres no excuse for me NOT to splurge an extra buck and just buy shonen jump. if they are raising the prices, they better make the books at least 60 pages.

and alot of fanboys dont read the comics so much as download them...trust me on this one ;)

Oh they'll make them 60 pages, all right. 22 pages of art and 38 of ads, haha.

Its as if though they WANT all of my money! DANG YOU MARVEL AND DC! DANG YOU TO HECK! I'll still buy Deadpool though...

I saw this chart in LITG too, and it was something i had been curious about, actually.

BUT.

In addition to quality/color concerns, there's been a huge shift, over that particular period, to comics being available pretty much only in the direct market, not to mention a drop in circulation (coincidence?). What this means is, they're probably getting considerably less money for advertising. So to maintain a margin (and probably post that "growth" investors are always interested in) they need to hike the prices.

Granted, before the shift to almost all DM, there the consideration that they were having losses due to returned copies (part of why the DM was invented in the first place).

So... who knows really.

I'm curious to see how this effects the cut off between monthly readers, and trade readers.

mattchee
I saw this chart in LITG too, and it was something i had been curious about, actually.

BUT.

In addition to quality/color concerns, there's been a huge shift, over that particular period, to comics being available pretty much only in the direct market, not to mention a drop in circulation (coincidence?).

that's their own damn fault for catering to those fat greasy bastards. Im sorry but I HATE the direct market. It's a paranoid fantasy and, as we are about to see, causes more harm than good. Do you ever see comic books on a spinner rack in your supermarket anymore? I DONT!!! and i used to all the time!

The only reason the direct market got lucky was due to the whole variant cover hype of the 90s. let it go, marvel and DC. those days are over. 1 million people are not going to go into a comic store and pick up spider-man #1. that will never happen again. 8 million people wont buy jim lee's x-men 1. that market is gone. its time to get back to the roots of what made comics successful in the first place...sell the damn things everywhere! maybe marvel and DC have too much of a "comic" stigma to them to have that kind of distribution muscle, I dont know. but i do know that the way things are going, its not good.

and i say this as someone who desperately loves american comic books and wants to see the return to 1 million dollar sales. I have a batman avatar for chrissakes.

NickGuy

mattchee
I saw this chart in LITG too, and it was something i had been curious about, actually.

BUT.

In addition to quality/color concerns, there's been a huge shift, over that particular period, to comics being available pretty much only in the direct market, not to mention a drop in circulation (coincidence?).

that's their own damn fault for catering to those fat greasy bastards. Im sorry but I HATE the direct market. It's a paranoid fantasy and, as we are about to see, causes more harm than good. Do you ever see comic books on a spinner rack in your supermarket anymore? I DONT!!! and i used to all the time!

I have to agree. I'm a pretty big critic of the direct market myself.

I think that the base idea was good: Sell directly to specialty retailers ahead of newstands at a discount with the agreement that they won't return any issues for credit at the end of the month. That's both good for retailers, who get their issues before newstands, and potentially reap larger profits (or discount them... as the shop of my youth did), and good for publishers, who, of course, would eliminate return credits.

This also allowed publishers to be more free about "mature reader" comics, and do projects that might not have sold well on news racks, but had an audience in the specialty shops (and, once again, they wouldn't have to worry about returns). Direct market distributorship also opened the doors for a lot o indie publishers too, since distributors and shops were more likely to take a risk with, say, the likes of Cerebus or TMNT.

All this in the face of declining newsstand readership.

So... I don't think at the outset the DM itself was a horrible idea.... but... like you said... it kind of imploded as the companies began to DEPEND on the DM and totally abandon newsstand distro altogether. And I don't know the inside dirt on that... Newsstand distributors may have equally abandoned comics (but then that would mean comics pubs weren't aggressive enough to get those distributors keep them on). Either way, it would seem that publishers, around the 90's decided that they didn't need the news stand any more and have shifted their focus to the DM only. I also think that publishers (now VERY dependent on Local Comics Shops) will bend over backwards just so that the LCS's won't get butthurt (which may include not pushing sales on the "competing" newsstands).

I think the real trouble is becoming evident now, while maybe the same amount of readers fall off every year, a sharply decreased amount of new readers are jumping on. I've said it again and again.... and here it is again: How do publishers hope to get new readers if they only sell their books in stores that non-readers would have no business going into? Its the most back asswards thing I've ever heard of.

I started reading comics that my dad would buy me at 7-11 when he'd go there to get coffee. I know a ton of other folks that have similar stories. That's certainly not happening anymore. My kids definitely wouldn't be exposed to comics if they weren't MY kids that have to put up with my trips to the comic shop.

Speaking of kids (y'know, the potential comics readers of the future), seems like Marvel and DC are doing a fine job of marketing their PROPERTIES to the kids through movies and toys and cartoon, etc... MORE THAN EVER BEFORE. When I was a kid, there was Superfriends, the Hulk on TV, 2 good superman movies, and a few toys. Now, kids are bombarded with these characters (Marvel is doing a particularly good job). So RIGHT NOW would be a great time for the publishers to try and start putting their comics back in supermarkets and such. If a parent will buy a kid shirts, DVDs, and action figures, why not something they'll READ?!

Of course now, coming full circle, price may be an inhibiting factor. Joe Fanboy may pay any amount of money to get his monthly (or wednesday) fix, Joe Potential-Fanboy's folks, probably will not. This is where, what i've stated in previous posts, comes into play. Lower the material quality, increase the page counts (added value), use reprinted material (so the cost of talent has already been covered by DM sales/ads), and increase the ratio of ads (and charge more for them since these rags are hitting newsstands AND the DM). All these things could dramatically reduce the price of a comic to a tolerable rate for parents to buy these things for their kids. Look at shonen jump. That crap tears it up on the newsstands (I nary see one without it)-- its a value. You get 300+ pages for, what? $4.99? $5.99? Probably color american comics couldn't match that kind of value, but they could come close, and in the long run it will generate a lot more sales. Its kind of like handing out free samples!

Unfortunately, I don't really see this happening. I'm not sure what it is, but the industry seems to cling to the DM like its the only way its ever been. WIth more and more comics shops closing, and the bulk of readership in danger of eventually literally dying off, I have to wonder if they even consider the monthly something worth saving?

Food for thought!

I don't mind paying pretty much any price for something thats done well..........but, having said that, Marvel and to an extent, DC, have lost the art of making good comics. The covers, interiors, writing.........not what it used to be. The Buscemas, Kanes, Kirbys, are gone, and even the George Perez's aren't putting the lines down that they used to. The great Editors and writers, who, were actually fans as well, like Roy Thomas, and Gerry Conway,...aren't involved much any more.....Replaced by editors and writers who aren't fans, and want to inject todays woes into the storylines, instead of the fun and charisma we used to read on a weekly basis. Spidey used to worry about how he was gonna sew up a rip that the Lizard tore into last night........now he is worried about a divorce, and a pact with a devil to save his aunt, who actually died a long time ago, and was ressurected because of falling sales.....bla, bla, bla. The characters are faded shadows of their glory days. I don't recognize my heroes any longer. So with all that in mind, there's NO WAY I'll spend that kind of money on a single comic, unless they start to give me what I want,....great storylines that actually add to the legend, great art, great covers. If not, then they certainly can keep them. The real market is in collected graphic novels anyway.....thats where DC and Marvel make alot of their yearly profit. Dan Dido told me that DC has not made a profit on their books in a long time.....its the merchandising that makes a profit. They simply keep the books going, to keep the characters out there, for merchandising opportunities............pretty sad.

mattchee
So... I don't think at the outset the DM itself was a horrible idea.... but... like you said... it kind of imploded as the companies began to DEPEND on the DM and totally abandon newsstand distro altogether. And I don't know the inside dirt on that... Newsstand distributors may have equally abandoned comics (but then that would mean comics pubs weren't aggressive enough to get those distributors keep them on). Either way, it would seem that publishers, around the 90's decided that they didn't need the news stand any more and have shifted their focus to the DM only. I also think that publishers (now VERY dependent on Local Comics Shops) will bend over backwards just so that the LCS's won't get butthurt (which may include not pushing sales on the "competing" newsstands).

I think the real trouble is becoming evident now, while maybe the same amount of readers fall off every year, a sharply decreased amount of new readers are jumping on. I've said it again and again.... and here it is again: How do publishers hope to get new readers if they only sell their books in stores that non-readers would have no business going into? Its the most back asswards thing I've ever heard of.

F***ing agreed. What started out as an ok idea (set up a side shop for our more "fringe" stuff) has instead become the "mainstream". Thats why i laugh when ever i hear the phrase "mainstream comics" to me thats like "mainstream porn" if you arent a pron fan you have no idea what the hell is going on.

to further use that porn analogy, the LCS' arent totally free of blame too. boarded up windows, dark mangy interiors....its like a porn shop itself! I remember a joke i read somewhere that went:

whats the same between a comic book store and a porn shop?
everyone likes what they sell but no one would be caught dead coming out of one.

and to quote ttyler, he said that

Someone
I don't mind paying pretty much any price for something thats done well..........but, having said that, Marvel and to an extent, DC, have lost the art of making good comics. The covers, interiors, writing.........not what it used to be. The Buscemas, Kanes, Kirbys, are gone, and even the George Perez's aren't putting the lines down that they used to. The great Editors and writers, who, were actually fans as well, like Roy Thomas, and Gerry Conway,...aren't involved much any more.....Replaced by editors and writers who aren't fans, and want to inject todays woes into the storylines, instead of the fun and charisma we used to read on a weekly basis. Spidey used to worry about how he was gonna sew up a rip that the Lizard tore into last night........now he is worried about a divorce, and a pact with a devil to save his aunt, who actually died a long time ago, and was ressurected because of falling sales.....bla, bla, bla. The characters are faded shadows of their glory days. I don't recognize my heroes any longer. So with all that in mind, there's NO WAY I'll spend that kind of money on a single comic, unless they start to give me what I want,....great storylines that actually add to the legend, great art, great covers. If not, then they certainly can keep them. The real market is in collected graphic novels anyway.....thats where DC and Marvel make alot of their yearly profit. Dan Dido told me that DC has not made a profit on their books in a long time.....its the merchandising that makes a profit. They simply keep the books going, to keep the characters out there, for merchandising opportunities............pretty sad.

first, i hate to say this, but i both agree and disagree with you. Its true that the art may not be as awesome as before (it might be better in some peoples opinions) but I for one do not want to see a return to stories of the past. they sucked! I mean, look at one more day for example. its the perfect example for why having too much of a hard-on for the glory days hurts rather than helps. Joe Quesada has always said he hated the marriage of MJ and Spidey. hes always wanted to return to the days of his youth where spiderman lived at home with aunt may eating (ugh!) wheatcakes. well, fanboys, NOW YOU HAVE IT! how does it feel? sucks, huh.

I dont want to see reiterations of the same versions of characters that have been done since stan and jack. I dont want to see the lizard hissing "ill get you, sssssspidermannnnnn, if its the last thing i dooooooooooooooooo...." thats corny and lame. Why do you think people love/hate ASBAR so much? Because its both new and at the same time not the same crap batman weve been reading for the last 30 years! People may bitch that "this batman isnt acting like batman should boohoo" but guess what? come november 26th when ASBAR 11 comes out, they are going to be first in line at their LCS buying a copy.

Comics, like the simpsons, needs to grow up, or at the very least, change. Having too many people who are married to the past can only hurt the field. Comics is already incestuous as it is (they resisted computer coloring for the longest time at the big two)

NickGuy

mattchee
I think the real trouble is becoming evident now, while maybe the same amount of readers fall off every year, a sharply decreased amount of new readers are jumping on. I've said it again and again.... and here it is again: How do publishers hope to get new readers if they only sell their books in stores that non-readers would have no business going into? Its the most back asswards thing I've ever heard of.

F***ing agreed. What started out as an ok idea (set up a side shop for our more "fringe" stuff) has instead become the "mainstream". Thats why i laugh when ever i hear the phrase "mainstream comics" to me thats like "mainstream porn" if you arent a pron fan you have no idea what the hell is going on.

to further use that porn analogy, the LCS' arent totally free of blame too. boarded up windows, dark mangy interiors....its like a porn shop itself! I remember a joke i read somewhere that went:

whats the same between a comic book store and a porn shop?
everyone likes what they sell but no one would be caught dead coming out of one.

Interesting analogy!

Its true though... on top of the fact that you have to go to these stores if you want to purchase a comic book, a lot of them are not very welcoming. Having moved all over California over the last 5 or so years, I've gone to lots of shops, and I'd say that finding a good one is hard. Heck, just finding one at all anymore is tough (my local store closed last year, and the closest shops are 30 miles away in either direction). The good ones, are real gems. Don't get me wrong! But, there are several shops that are basically run by fans that have no business head. Simple things like being welcoming when people enter the shop, or having your books organized so people can find what they're looking for. They pretty much focus on serving their "regulars" and don't even know the concept of "new customer."

ttyler
I don't mind paying pretty much any price for something thats done well..........but, having said that, Marvel and to an extent, DC, have lost the art of making good comics. The covers, interiors, writing.........not what it used to be. The Buscemas, Kanes, Kirbys, are gone, and even the George Perez's aren't putting the lines down that they used to. The great Editors and writers, who, were actually fans as well, like Roy Thomas, and Gerry Conway,...aren't involved much any more.....Replaced by editors and writers who aren't fans, and want to inject todays woes into the storylines, instead of the fun and charisma we used to read on a weekly basis. Spidey used to worry about how he was gonna sew up a rip that the Lizard tore into last night........now he is worried about a divorce, and a pact with a devil to save his aunt, who actually died a long time ago, and was ressurected because of falling sales.....bla, bla, bla. The characters are faded shadows of their glory days. I don't recognize my heroes any longer. So with all that in mind, there's NO WAY I'll spend that kind of money on a single comic, unless they start to give me what I want,....great storylines that actually add to the legend, great art, great covers. If not, then they certainly can keep them. The real market is in collected graphic novels anyway.....thats where DC and Marvel make alot of their yearly profit. Dan Dido told me that DC has not made a profit on their books in a long time.....its the merchandising that makes a profit. They simply keep the books going, to keep the characters out there, for merchandising opportunities............pretty sad.

I think there's some good stuff out there... there's also some crap. I agree with you to the point where, i think, superhero comics anyway, need to get back to a point of, perhaps shorter adventures. The story can be ongoing, but make it more eposodical.... if the periodical is to continue.

I don't really see the big two putting much stock into the continuation of the periodical, though. Like you said. I see a shift toward the TPB/GN book market. Bad news for Local Comics Shops.

i only buy tpbs and i dont buy superhero books anymore. i think i grew out of it.

I started out from a different direction than a lot of you older guys. I first started into webcomics, then worked my way into graphic novels. As time has gone on, I've bought the occasional tpb when I saw something that interested me like Usagi Yojimbo, but I ran into the problem that it's almost impossible to find those old comics serial booklets and the new ones can be either difficult to understand without the back story provided by the old serial comics or are simply less interesting to me because I find the old stories more unusual and new to me as a result of being from a storytelling style that died out 20+ years ago ( That's kind of a guess of the time part by me, but you get the point. ). As a result of not being able to find those old comics I found myself digging through the local comic shops more and more often to find the tpb's. But I doubt I would have thought about those comic shops had I been able to find the stories at places I frequent more often. Truth be told, I still spend more time browsing the racks at Barnes and Nobles than anywhere else for graphic novels and comics. The newsstand market is still there, but I think it's shape has changed significantly.

Most of the time, the rack with the serials isn't next to the graphic novel and manga section, but it's down by the magazines where most comics fans who aren't also interested in picking up a magazine like High Fructose or Juxtapose are not likely to venture. They're still there though.

lba
I ran into the problem that it's almost impossible to find those old comics serial booklets and the new ones can be either difficult to understand without the back story provided by the old serial comics

This is an additional problem with the majors' marketing of their more mainstream titles, too. They may be trying to move more towards TPBs and GNs but the way they structure their stories at the moment just isn't suited to that.

Their insistence on making every title cross over into the latest "event" means that - even though they market TPBs as graphic novels - the reality is they're very different animals and, in a TPB, you all-too-often don't get a complete story. There tend to be whole sections of story missing (Tim Drake's search for his mother in - I think - Identity Crisis) or additional sequences apparently tacked onto the end as an afterthought (Wonder Woman's killing of Max Lord in The OMAC Project).

Added to that, the first volume of newer titles (e.g. Y: The Last Man) can be hard to track down. Shops will typically stock the latest volume or two as if - like a monthly pamphlet - they're the only ones that will sell. To attract readers new to the title, however, they need to be constantly pushing the first volumes. No one is going to buy a book with Volume 3 or 4 stamped on the cover if they haven't already read Volumes 1 and 2.

iba
Truth be told, I still spend more time browsing the racks at Barnes and Nobles than anywhere else for graphic novels and comics. The newsstand market is still there, but I think it's shape has changed significantly.

Most of the time, the rack with the serials isn't next to the graphic novel and manga section, but it's down by the magazines where most comics fans who aren't also interested in picking up a magazine like High Fructose or Juxtapose are not likely to venture. They're still there though.

I have to respectfully disagree. While, yes, there is the news rack presence in book stores (and I agree it would be better suited to have the pamphlet comics near the TPBs and OGNs), that's about the ONLY place you'll find them on the newsstand, outside of Archie digests, Shonen Jump, and Mad Magazine (I'm speaking from a US perspective here). I'd like to see a return to the time where you'd find comics in supermarkets, convenience stores, etc... I generally count books stores as an exception, especially since comics already have a bigger presence there, like you said, through their book formats.

DAJB
They may be trying to move more towards TPBs and GNs but the way they structure their stories at the moment just isn't suited to that.

Totally... I view it as a lose lose situation. The individual issues suffer because they're trying to meet the demands of the book chains' market, and the TPBs suffer because they contain all the things inherent in individual issue sales that don't exactly make the best "book."

In a lot of ways, i think that if they want to double market stuff, they should do it with mini-series, so a complete story is inherent to the format of the book. Then if they want to collect monthlies do it in a "season" format. Just collect em! Don't break em up into story archs and what not. Just give me 12 issues a year and hit me for 25 bucks or whatever.... that way I don't miss anything.

I hate the fact that, in my case for instance, I'd been a regular reader of the Flash since #43. But i took a couple few years off. A lot happened between then (like I was shocked to find that Wally's ID had become secret again). So i Looked to the trades to catch me up, but there are only a couple select stories from that period available.

Arrivating.

Sorry, my post was all over the place.... i think its the coffee i just drank! woooo...

I read somewhere that supermarkets, convenience stores etc. are simply not interested in comics and rather put out things that are guaranteed to sell better. Apparently one of the reasons why short story SF magazines are all subscription only these days (and slowly dropping in sales too).

mattchee

iba
Truth be told, I still spend more time browsing the racks at Barnes and Nobles than anywhere else for graphic novels and comics. The newsstand market is still there, but I think it's shape has changed significantly.

Most of the time, the rack with the serials isn't next to the graphic novel and manga section, but it's down by the magazines where most comics fans who aren't also interested in picking up a magazine like High Fructose or Juxtapose are not likely to venture. They're still there though.

I have to respectfully disagree. While, yes, there is the news rack presence in book stores (and I agree it would be better suited to have the pamphlet comics near the TPBs and OGNs), that's about the ONLY place you'll find them on the newsstand, outside of Archie digests, Shonen Jump, and Mad Magazine (I'm speaking from a US perspective here). I'd like to see a return to the time where you'd find comics in supermarkets, convenience stores, etc... I generally count books stores as an exception, especially since comics already have a bigger presence there, like you said, through their book formats.

I suppose I should mention that for the last couple years, I lived in a place where the kid who bags your groceries at the market still walks them out to your car for you, calls you sir, the gas station still has full-service pumps and business hours are scheduled around the baseball season ( I am not in any way joking or exaggerating on this one either. ). So maybe they're a bit more frequent in Iowa ( I honestly haven't looked in Wisconsin since I don't buy groceries very often here and I haven't got a budget for comics with school and all. ), but there were a few places that sold them. Very few compared to years ago probably, but there nonetheless. Maybe it's regional as to how fast it drops off. Maybe Iowa is just a goofy old-fashioned backwards state.

Aurora Borealis
I read somewhere that supermarkets, convenience stores etc. are simply not interested in comics and rather put out things that are guaranteed to sell better. Apparently one of the reasons why short story SF magazines are all subscription only these days (and slowly dropping in sales too).

I can dig that. It sort of a self fulfilling prophecy in a way. But yea, I'm sure shelf space is at a premium. The magazine biz is pretty low risk for grocery stores, though, I'd imagine. You get return credit for what you don't sell.

lba
I suppose I should mention that for the last couple years, I lived in a place where the kid who bags your groceries at the market still walks them out to your car for you, calls you sir, the gas station still has full-service pumps and business hours are scheduled around the baseball season ( I am not in any way joking or exaggerating on this one either. ). So maybe they're a bit more frequent in Iowa ( I honestly haven't looked in Wisconsin since I don't buy groceries very often here and I haven't got a budget for comics with school and all. ), but there were a few places that sold them. Very few compared to years ago probably, but there nonetheless. Maybe it's regional as to how fast it drops off. Maybe Iowa is just a goofy old-fashioned backwards state.

I stand corrected. Interesting insight from your part of the country! Hmmmm... I'm curious about other places how things are. I mean, I'm out in california, but even when I lived up in Eureka, what I've spoken of is what i've seen...

Man, I miss those spinner rack days. I mean... I guess it wouldn't be the same for me now, but I remember those things, twice as tall as me, just spinning them around and around looking at all the comics! My dad would go buy lotto tickets at this spot called "Ed's Smoke Shop" (now still "Ed's Smoke Shop" but for some reason they primarily sell fake designer accessories vs, cigars, cigarettes, candy, and periodicals). Anyhow he'd buy a lotto ticket (my kids want candy and drinks all the time when we stop at a place like that, I wanted comic books!) and I'd get a comic out the deal. Course, they were something like 75 cents at the time...

heck... i look at that "inflation chart" interesting comparisons. I'd say a candy bar back then was probably 50 cents. No cheaper. A comic was 75 cents, a quarter more. Now a candy bar is still down probably around 60-75 cents (okay they make bigger candy now and hit you for a buck), comics are pushing 4 dollars! from a quarter difference to a 3.75 difference!

That's nuts. And I'm rambling again!

lba

I suppose I should mention that for the last couple years, I lived in a place where the kid who bags your groceries at the market still walks them out to your car for you, calls you sir, the gas station still has full-service pumps and business hours are scheduled around the baseball season ( I am not in any way joking or exaggerating on this one either. ).


damn i wish i lived there.

DAJB
The trouble is, people still pay it. I haven't bought a pamphlet style monthly comic for decades because, for me, the value for money just isn't there.

Hate to correct you on a minor level, but the problem is people DON'T pay it.

One reason I update Aurora so slowly is because in real life, in addition to working day jobs, I manage a business that's open to the public.

Every penny above what is reasonable creates the effect of "pricing oneself out of the market". There's a reasonable level of price markup--it's called "what the traffic will bear". There's such a thing as a reasonable balance of markup--often in line with the cost of living, plus what one can glean in the way of special items sales.

The superhero comics industry has been crippled by bad management for a long time.

Twenty years ago, Marvel and DC were in a virtual renaissance. At the time, comic books only cost .95 cents. This seemed to work well at the time. At the time, "Uncanny X-Men" had five hundred thousand monthly readers. It now gets fewer than 100,000 readers a month.

The cost of living, since then, has roughly doubled at most. The last time I bought a superhero comic book, which I'll admit was at least a year ago, they were $2.99 each...which already pretty much exceeds "what the traffic will bear" ratio by 50%.

500,000 copies a month at $1 each is not actually equivalent to 100,000 copies a month at $5 each---any more than Saks Fifth Avenue is equivalent to WalMart.

If I bought stock, I'd much rather own stock in WalMart. WalMart will not go bankrupt in hard times. Saks will.

You always want volume sales over high prices. As for the Direct Market, it's dead. In most parts of America you'll have to drive fifty miles or more to find a comics shop, and half the shelf space in these cramped little stores is action figures and memorabilia.

TitanOne

DAJB
The trouble is, people still pay it. I haven't bought a pamphlet style monthly comic for decades because, for me, the value for money just isn't there.

Hate to correct you on a minor level, but the problem is people DON'T pay it.

One reason I update Aurora so slowly is because in real life, in addition to working day jobs, I manage a business that's open to the public.

Every penny above what is reasonable creates the effect of "pricing oneself out of the market". There's a reasonable level of price markup--it's called "what the traffic will bear". There's such a thing as a reasonable balance of markup--often in line with the cost of living, plus what one can glean in the way of special items sales.

The superhero comics industry has been crippled by bad management for a long time.

Twenty years ago, Marvel and DC were in a virtual renaissance. At the time, comic books only cost .95 cents. This seemed to work well at the time. At the time, "Uncanny X-Men" had five hundred thousand monthly readers. It now gets fewer than 100,000 readers a month.

The cost of living, since then, has roughly doubled at most. The last time I bought a superhero comic book, which I'll admit was at least a year ago, they were $2.95 each...which already pretty much exceeds "what the traffic will bear" ratio by 50%.

500,000 copies a month at $1 each is not actually equivalent to 100,000 copies a month at $5 each---any more than Saks Fifth Avenue is equivalent to WalMart.

If I bought stock, I'd much rather own stock in WalMart. WalMart will not go bankrupt in hard times. Saks will.

You always want volume sales over high prices.

i dont think i could agree with this post more.

How much of people's issue with cost is just because they're used to paying lower prices?

If I was into superhero comics (which I'm not and never have been :)), the current costs don't seem unreasonable to me. I'd pay that if I liked that sort of thing.

TitanOne

DAJB
The trouble is, people still pay it. I haven't bought a pamphlet style monthly comic for decades because, for me, the value for money just isn't there.

Hate to correct you on a minor level, but the problem is people DON'T pay it.

One reason I update Aurora so slowly is because in real life, in addition to working day jobs, I manage a business that's open to the public.

Every penny above what is reasonable creates the effect of "pricing oneself out of the market". There's a reasonable level of price markup--it's called "what the traffic will bear". There's such a thing as a reasonable balance of markup--often in line with the cost of living, plus what one can glean in the way of special items sales.

The superhero comics industry has been crippled by bad management for a long time.

Twenty years ago, Marvel and DC were in a virtual renaissance. At the time, comic books only cost .95 cents. This seemed to work well at the time. At the time, "Uncanny X-Men" had five hundred thousand monthly readers. It now gets fewer than 100,000 readers a month.

The cost of living, since then, has roughly doubled at most. The last time I bought a superhero comic book, which I'll admit was at least a year ago, they were $2.99 each...which already pretty much exceeds "what the traffic will bear" ratio by 50%.

500,000 copies a month at $1 each is not actually equivalent to 100,000 copies a month at $5 each---any more than Saks Fifth Avenue is equivalent to WalMart.

If I bought stock, I'd much rather own stock in WalMart. WalMart will not go bankrupt in hard times. Saks will.

You always want volume sales over high prices. As for the Direct Market, it's dead. In most parts of America you'll have to drive fifty miles or more to find a comics shop, and half the shelf space in these cramped little stores is action figures and memorabilia.

I don't think we do disagree here, Titan. I certainly have to agree with your grasp of economics but, as far as mainstream comics are concerned, the fans who are still buying them do and will continue to pay whatever price is asked.

When it comes to attracting new and younger readers, I agree the Big Two have priced themselves out of the market (although I believe this also has a lot to do with content). Since they appear to have no idea how to address that problem (I also agree whole-heartedly with your poor management comment) their current strategy is clearly designed to milk their current readership of as much cash as possible. My point was that, sadly, there are enough fans who will continue to spend huge amounts of money on these titles to offset the few who will fall by the wayside as a result of the latest price hike.

It's a short-sighted strategy, I agree, and as the existing fanbase gets older and older, it must ultimately lead to the industry's demise. In the short term, however, I suspect they could increase the price to $5 an issue and still the numbers falling away would be offset by those who are prepared to pay. Until there is a management team in place with the vision to change both content and marketing strategies (or until the existing fanbase reaches pensionable age and can no longer afford comic books of any desription!), milking those already hooked is the best (or, more accurately, only) strategy they have.

I think paying 4$ for a flimsy, 25 page comic loaded with ads is a bit much. Marvel/DC are like grumpy old war veterans who won't adjust to change no matter what. There were a ton of great suggestion in the 'if you owned marvel/DC" threads that could be utilized and make the fans happier then this, but no they stick to the same formula that they've known for years now. Same hereos, same stories, same artists, same crap since they started out. Least now they can suck blood from their films.

My rant is really meaningless though because i dislike DC's comics and only buy 1 marvel series. Almost all my comics are from vertigo and dark horse, with some lesser known publisher in between. (oh and manga, seething smelly piles of manga)

Skullbie
I think paying 4$ for a flimsy, 25 page comic loaded with ads is a bit much. Marvel/DC are like grumpy old war veterans who won't adjust to change no matter what. There were a ton of great suggestion in the 'if you owned marvel/DC" threads that could be utilized and make the fans happier then this, but no they stick to the same formula that they've known for years now. Same hereos, same stories, same artists, same crap since they started out. Least now they can suck blood from their films.

Exactly how I feel.
Although, I think the only reason they stick with the same stuff is because they think that's what the reader wants. They want the same thing, just a slightly modified story.

Ryuthehedgewolf

Skullbie
I think paying 4$ for a flimsy, 25 page comic loaded with ads is a bit much. Marvel/DC are like grumpy old war veterans who won't adjust to change no matter what. There were a ton of great suggestion in the 'if you owned marvel/DC" threads that could be utilized and make the fans happier then this, but no they stick to the same formula that they've known for years now. Same hereos, same stories, same artists, same crap since they started out. Least now they can suck blood from their films.

Exactly how I feel.
Although, I think the only reason they stick with the same stuff is because they think that's what the reader wants. They want the same thing, just a slightly modified story.

ok i dont want to sound like im attacking you ryu, but...

Im so sick and tired of hearing people say that. If you are tired of reading the same thing, then VOICE YOUR OPINION! and no, not buying the comics does not work. why?

Because there are enough of the fat greasy fanboys out there still buying this, wishing for the glory days of their youth, when batman was so awesome.

The way I see it is like this. Tired of superhero comics? Well, write to Marvel and DC and let them know that you would like to see some serious variation in the types of comics they put out! It's kind of like writing to your congressman...how the hell is he supposed to know that you dislike something if you dont write to him? Make yourself be heard. they ignore your first letter? write more! Get other people who have likeminded opinions to write in as well, so that way the companies know "oh hey wow, they are serious about this...maybe we should branch off and do different genres and attract more readers."

which in turn would create more jobs for artist, but...

Anyway, the point is, if you stay muma nd just go "oh im not going to buy their comics till they get it" thats not going to happen. thats like ignoring the hot girl in your class until she likes you.

NickGuy
Anyway, the point is, if you stay muma nd just go "oh im not going to buy their comics till they get it" thats not going to happen. thats like ignoring the hot girl in your class until she likes you.

That may very well be the best analogy I've seen yet!
:D

NickGuy
Im so sick and tired of hearing people say that.

It's the truth though.

NickGuy
Tired of superhero comics? Well, write to Marvel and DC and let them know that you would like to see some serious variation in the types of comics they put out! It's kind of like writing to your congressman...how the hell is he supposed to know that you dislike something if you dont write to him?

Because a congressmen actually listen to others instead of trusting his educated and tested opinion that was formed years ago lol! Sure he'll 'listen' but unless those people have cash hes got the brains to realize he can't please everyone. Better to cater to that percentage that likes his choices by nature and will reelect him.

Same with marvel/DC, why risk it on a new comic that would take actual effort and talent when they can rake in dough on a tired old formula. They know that already has a dedicated percentage of readers? I'll eat my shoe if they haven't gotten at least a 10thousand letters over the decades requesting new content and guess what, nothings changed since then.

So thank god for smaller more unique publishers and heck, webcomics too. ;) Our saviors from the retconed superheroes old men from DC self-insert upon.