They are bringing out so many american made titles now.
Sokora Refugees is the only one that I know that is also a popular webcomic.

Is Tokyo Pop wasting their money on publishing unknown authers? Is their american make manga any good enough to buy?

Here's a link to some titles they have.
http://www.tokyopop.com/mangaonline/current_issue.php?tab=7

I thumbed through a few; didn't really impress me. Of course, most of TP's Japanese licensed comics don't particularly interest me either. All in all I, personally, don't think it's worth it, but it's nice of TP to give some budding artists a chance to get some stuff published.

Maybe someday they can use this as a stepping stone to making real comics :twisted:

Yeah, there's another webcomic called: Van Von Hunter and it is now published as a printed Manga by Tokyopop!

I don't think it is a bad idea because these makers are like geting familiar in a way but still there are some disadvantages.

Tokyopop has a big market throughout North America and it is a nice thing for a big company to accept people's work however there are some crappy ones that should not be published but anyways, the market's moving.

Meh, TokyoPop didn't really have any titles, no matter where they came from, that interested me all that much. Although I like the idea that they are getting some other manga-stuffs from somewhere other than Japan. Japanese aren't the only people who can draw comics (no offense to any Japanese here, we still love you guys! :) )

I generally stay away from TokyoPop anyway.

Haha, TP....toilet paper. :lol: (Don't mind my immaturity)

I own numbers 1 and 3 of Tokyo Pop's Rising Stars of Manga. I bought them, basically, to see what future competition is out there in the world of comics. Although since these guys are working in the field of Japanese-influenced comics they probably won't be a major contendor in the American comics field (they've already 'sold their souls' to manga).

That said, I enjoyed what I read of Atomic King Daidogan (it's funny), Von Von Hunter (also...funny) and I Luv Halloween. But personally it pisses me off how Tokyo Pop has to do everything '100% Manga' like. I really don't care if American artist's work isn't 100 Percent manga. Actually, I'd perfer if it wasn't. But it seems like that's just what TP wants to do. I'd prefer if other companies would do what TP is doing but without having to make it soley manga. Give American artists with an original style a chance.

Not sure how successful OEL manga are, but from a personal point of view, the only titles that really impressed me from Tokyopop are those such as Dramacon, Sorcerers & Secretaries, and East Coast Rising - essentially those titles penned by creators with some amount of experience under their belt, be it by the webcomics or the independent/small business publishing route.

It does seem as though Tokyopop is attempting to neatly categorize their OEL to fill in certain niches. As a result, there are a few titles whose names shall not be listed that I will absolutely not give the time of day to, simply because they're just not up to par with what I've seen from western or eastern creators, but somehow they do seem to exist, almost as though they'd escaped any semblance of comic or manuscript editing. Makes me wonder what their game is.

But I do believe that these titles are successful, or if not, they're allowing Tokyopop to break even. Consider all the advertising they've given to this line of titles, and consider how furiously they promote the RSOM contests. Plus, like others have said, it's good to see that they are one of the few companies actively soliciting the ideas of new writers not just in manga publishing, but in comics. And there are some newcomers (eg. The Dreaming) that have won over not just me, but it seems a lot of discerning critics as well.

geeze... it's all just comics... with a theme. Whether it be big-eyed disproportional school kids or big muscular superheroesque characters with close detail and heavy ink. It's all just comics. Depending on people buy what TokyoPop dishes out, that will make it seem worth it or not. Just need to get some fresh blood and ideas into the mix. I Luv Halloween... I still need to get a copy of that. It's possibly the most interesting-looking book I found in the comics section and I intend on buying it soon enough.
I'm just looking forward to that day where I don't see angel/demon love triangles, four in a row under different titles, on the shelves because that is getting kind of old. NEED THE FRESHNESS! FRESH COMICS!

I would never buy an American manga. The whole point of American manga is to emulate something that's been done before. Japanese manga can often get repetitive within its own genre sets, but that is true of any entertainment industry, even American comics and web comics. The difference here, though, is that American manga is intentionally generic, while Japanese manga artists have the freedom to stray from the herd if they so choose, often leading to more interesting stories. It's better to be a trend setter than a sheep.

.: isukun :.

eh? but who says American comics drawn in a style considered traditionally Japanese are intentionally generic? If I were to make a comic that Japanese way, which I probably will do, I would give it all American humor, with American ethnicity and strive to get that healthy fresh shine. Anyone can set a trend, but really it depends on the artist on whether they want to do something entirely bizzare and strange or something... wassit called : Doujinshi? I'm not against buying American "Manga" like that, but it really comes down to is: it's all just comics. Gotta let it fly and give it a chance. It does weigh heavily on the consumer, but every now and then someone's going to strike gold... even if it does turn out to be an american... who knows. People might actually like starting to read things left to right.

isukun
I would never buy an American manga. The whole point of American manga is to emulate something that's been done before. Japanese manga can often get repetitive within its own genre sets, but that is true of any entertainment industry, even American comics and web comics. The difference here, though, is that American manga is intentionally generic, while Japanese manga artists have the freedom to stray from the herd if they so choose, often leading to more interesting stories. It's better to be a trend setter than a sheep.

Yeah, that's one of the problems I have with American 'manga'. They're setting themselves up to follow trends. They could be called 'Japanese influenced comics' (which is actually what most of these are, since many of them do seem sort of original) but calling them 100% American Manga is just...not only is it contradictive in a way, but it's also insulting to the creators if they DO do something really original in this catagory (for example, I Luv Halloween).

Only furries like anime.

but who says American comics drawn in a style considered traditionally Japanese are intentionally generic?

Usually the publisher does. That's the whole point of American manga, to mimic something that already exists. American manga is supposed to follow both the Japanese art style as well as their story structure and themes. Otherwise it isn't considered as appealing to the consumer. That is what sets it apart from other comics. Other comics have more freedom for innovation.

People might actually like starting to read things left to right.

I would never EVER buy an American comic printed left to right. Japanese manga is printed left to right because that is practical in their language. It isn't a stylistic choice, Japanese is read that way. English is not. Making an English comic which reads left to right because the Japanese do it that way only proves how close to formula the author is willing to stick and certainly doesn't make me think more highly of the material at hand.

.: isukun :.

well, isn't left to right practical in English?

and hypothetically, if there was a comic which was american and drawn with those big eyes and was somehow amazingly and death-defyingly not generic what would you think of it then? I mean, not all things can be clustered like that.

also... what if the creator of the comic is a Japanese-American. Who can speak and write both languages and for submission purposes does his work in left to right just for submissions to TokyoPop because he happens to live in the United States? Obviously the combination of two cultures and it is on him whether he begins one of those new trends or not.

Yeah, isukun, you got your point messed up. Americans read stuff left to right while Japanese read things right to left.

But anyway, even if isukun missed that point, he brought up another good point. I've seen a lot of comics on DD do stuff right to left just because manga does it that way (although it's hell 'a confusing figuring out those buttons when you're reading something oppositly. You have to read left but click on the right button....@_@) Actually, whenever I give people copies of my book they always ask me 'Which way do I read it?' What? Read it the normal way! What other way would you read an AMERICAN comic?

So really, this Japanese influence may have gone too far. I can justify taking stylistic elements and story elements from something and creating an enjoyable story or evolving a typical plotline into something original, but even abiding by the format of a Japanese comic just doesn't make any sense to me.

Well I haven't bought an OEL yet but then again I haven't really bought any comics lately.

If I see something that grabs my attention and looks good and makes me want it, I will buy it regardless of what it is or what nationality the author is. I don't rule out American comics although I read manga predominently. I have american comics and I grew up reading them way before manga. Basically I don't like to categorize things by what nationality the creator is. I really have two categories. "good stuff" and "crap" and that's all that matters. There's good manga and then there's crap manga, just as there's good comics and crap comics (really they're all comics with varieties of style that can be pleasing or very ugly)

So if some American or non-japanese drawing something in the manga-style creates a comic that is in my "good stuff" category, I'll like it.

Personally though I've never specifically called the stuff I draw "manga", even though that's my style, because I've drawn comics way before I adopted the manga style and to me I'm still drawing comics since that's what the word means. Since I speak english, I call it comics. I also set my stories in familiar settings (i.e. not Japan) unless I plan on doing research.
I don't understand why those drawing for a target english speaking language would draw right to left and use japanese sound effects.

Yeah, isukun, you got your point messed up. Americans read stuff left to right while Japanese read things right to left.

I was quoting mechanical_lullaby and got a little mixed up, I meant right to left. Some of Tokyopop's compilations of American manga from the Rising Stars of Manga contests were printed that way and I found it more distracting than stylish.

For me, it's not the nationality of the author that matters, it's the genre itself. These "manga" titles may originate in America, but I would have the same opinion about Japanese comics mimicing American comic standards. The style isn't what bothers me as much as the writing. Publishers are looking for comics which not only emulate the manga visual style, but also the writing style. They want comics that have stereotypical anime/manga characters and situations.

.: isukun :.

I think the talent pool for western manga artists is thinner than the east, for obvious reasons; most of the people that are skilled enough to keep up with asian artists are already doing western style comics. Manga's only really kicked off in the last 5-10 years or so, we aren't going to have any masters yet that haven't already got a deal with a comic book publisher.

So yeah, I don't think it's waste of money on Tokyopop's part, more an investment... Sooner or later a comic/manga will be made that kicks everyone's ass bringing western manga into the mainstream comics & manga crowds and Tokyopop will be gigglin'. :D I don't think they've done it yet though, or we would have heard about it.

Oh, and right-to-left comics in english are stooopiiiid! :D If it's translated then I can kinda understand a bit, but if it's written in english in the first place... argh! Anger! XD

mechanical_lullaby
I'm just looking forward to that day where I don't see angel/demon love triangles, four in a row under different titles, on the shelves because that is getting kind of old. NEED THE FRESHNESS! FRESH COMICS!

Gosh that's soo true! That's what we see way too much of now in manga. Even in webcomics too.
So much of the same stuff. There are some really good origenal webcomics out there I wish they would take in.

But the only thing an American manga could be emulating is the figure-drawing style.

Not really. Character archtypes, story elements, comedic conventions and so forth are often copied in American manga. These aren't visual elements. So not only CAN American manga emulate things beyond the figure-drawing style, they DO.

So I don't understand how American manga artists wouldn't have the freedom to stray from the herd...especially because they ARE American; being typically less familiar with Japanese conventions but familiar with its general manga drawing style.

Most of the artists and readers aren't that unfamiliar with Japanese conventions and that is why they aren't as free to stray from the herd. Readers expect certain content and publishers wish to deliver it. The authors are fans, themselves and wish to make a product that shows off the elements they enjoy from existing manga.

If an American artist and a japanese artist were equally skilled in drawing manga, I would say innovation is more likely for the American manga artist because he/she is the "foriegn" manga artist, developing ideas conditioned by abstract experiences and lifestyles to be used to mix with a contrasting-but-familiar base...thus allowing this artist to be more inclined to put something never-seen-before into manga-styled comics.

I would say the opposite is true. The American manga artist may be basing their work on their experiences and lifestyles, but those experiences and lifestyles are centered around manga. They don't choose to copy the style because they hate the genre. They are fans and their biggest influence tends to be the very material they are copying stylistically.

.: isukun :.

Does anyone else find it funny that Isukun; a man who uses a japanese user name and produces an anime-styled comic, is so vehemently against "American Manga". I know he's got reasoning apart from stuff like that, but on the surface it's pretty unusual.

Yeah, the whole big eyed avatar anime-style thing throws me off. Every time the subject comes up to do with manga, isukun seems to reject the style. Yet he draws it. Huh.

read MBQ (an OEL Tokyopop release) by Felipe Smith and you'll see a dude that's way way way waay ahead of the american manga curve. I hope Felipe Smith brings on a revolution of the good sort - not like Image's "let's have people wear bandannas and jackets and have mystical boogery armor" philosophy of the early 90's. here's a link...

http://www.felipesmith.com/mbq/

Does anyone else find it funny that Isukun; a man who uses a japanese user name and produces an anime-styled comic, is so vehemently against "American Manga".

It only seems strange if you haven't read what I've written so far in this thread. Try reading my posts before calling me a hypocrit.

Every time the subject comes up to do with manga, isukun seems to reject the style.

Same goes to you. I haven't rejected the style in any way. In fact, when topics come up about the visual style of manga, I tend to defend it. What I don't support is using the typical story formulas and characters you find in about 95% of American manga rip-offs. I don't support American comics drawn in the manga style being labeled as "manga" (something I don't do with my own comic). It takes away some of the legitimacy of comics which actually do come from Japan, making manga into more of a genre with established themes and character archetypes and not simply comics from Japan.

Why should it seem strange that someone who is a fan of actual manga would be unhappy with people who stereotype it?

.: isukun :.

Try reading my posts before accusing me of calling you a hypocrite.

" I know he's got reasoning apart from stuff like that, but on the surface it's pretty unusual." :roll:

Try reading my posts before accusing me of calling you a hypocrite.

I did. Your post didn't really have any other purpose but to give that impression.

.: isukun :.

If you say so, man. I suppose I can't really help it if you're set on playing the victim.

Yeah, many American manga artists are familiar with most, but when you compare them to the actual native artists, they would likely know more than Americans would...which was the main reason behind my opinion on straying from the herd...so to speak.

Once again, this seems to be more a limitation than something that allows for greater variety. So the American artists are pulling from a much smaller pool of resources than the Japanese artists. How does that PROMOTE diversity?

On a similar note, Japanese manga also doesn't cater to a particular social or age group in Japan. There are genres within manga that do so, but manga as a medium has no boundaries in terms of audience. That leaves it open to just about any topic or story the author can think up. This isn't the case in the US where the audience is much smaller, and consists of a very specific age and interest group. Only two or three of the genres that exist in Japan actually make it out in the US. We see a lack of variety in Japanese manga because we only get a sampling of what they have to offer. If it doesn't fit our preconceived notions of what manga is, then it doesn't come out here.

It is that limited scope that so many American artists are trying to copy.

They don't have to be centered around manga...which was the point I was trying to make.

People generally don't copy something if they have no interest in it. The vast majority of people who draw in the manga style who aren't from Japan are doing so from an anime/manga subculture background. If they love something enough to model their life after it (i.e. seek a career creating it) then it must be a pretty major element in their lives.

It would be less likely for the Japanese artist, who would constantly be centered around manga...being part of his/her culture.

Despite its popularity, manga is not something everyone in Japan reads. Even though it caters to just about every social and age group, there are quite a few people who just aren't into it. Japan has a very visual culture, though, and often it is easier to get a message across through manga than it is through novels (especially with how competitive bookwriting gets in Japan).

Realisitcally, though, one can easily say that American artists are more likely to be innovative, but that poses the question, why aren't they? The vast majority of American manga I've read DOES borrow heavily from other manga. It is very formulaic in story, characterization, and even little things like vocabulary and names. So if they are more likely to break away from the herd, why aren't they doing so?

.: isukun :.