Ryan McLelland
I think I might smack my son's hand...but not hard. I'd rather put him on timeout which he really really hates.

I'd never...EVER...spank him. But then...he's not really that bad...at least yet.

Oooh, I have experience with that.
Time out = Helps.
Time out kneeling on rice = I WILL NEVER DO THAT BAD THING I DID EVER AGAIN I PROMISE.

:O

Rice is yummy.

I agree with spanking (but I have to blame my family history for that).

I personally think that pain teaches a better lesson than putting your kid in the corner or something.

It depends how spanking is done. If it is ever done in anger or frustration, then don't do it. But it is biblical and useful if used in a very loving environment and not to exasperate the child. Other parents has to teach me the right way to approach it. It is not something that you can just feel your way through to figure out. A little heart is at stake.

joeychips
But it is biblical and useful

so is stoning or slavery or subjugating women...btw where is it in the bible?

subcultured

joeychips
But it is biblical and useful

so is stoning or slavery or subjugating women...btw where is it in the bible?

Proverbs 23: 13-- Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

wouldn't that be metaphorical?
i mean if you are really following the bible word by word then you would be hitting him with a rod.

i think that just means you shouldn't let him go unpunished if he does something foolish. but the punishment doesn't specify violence IMO.

I'd like to add that Proverbs was in the Old Testament. Things were a bit harsher in those days.

I agree with joeychips when he said it shouldn't be done in anger or frustration.

Aurora Moon

subcultured

joeychips
But it is biblical and useful

so is stoning or slavery or subjugating women...btw where is it in the bible?

Proverbs 23: 13-- Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him. Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

I think that everyone can agree that it shouldn't be done in anger or frustration.

However, I don't think people shouldn't quote the bible as a way to support their feelings on something like spanking. Especially not when quoting the old testament.

After all, Christan teachings states that the old testament is "out dated" as seeing Jesus had something to do with making it so that people would never need to follow the old testament ever again. The teachings also state the fact that the only reason why the old testament is there in the bible still is so that people can reflect on the history of how things used to be.

I should know, I studied the bible and the faith for a while.

So therefore--Christians who feel the need to defend something of theirs quoting the bible should be CAREFUL what part of the bible they are quoting, least they look like a compete fool for quoting from a part of the bible that was supposed to be "outdated". Epesically when it comes to things like homosexuality or even something simple as spanking.

I believe that when a kid is misbehaving and not listening to anything you say, you must lay your hands on them (not spanking yet) and either pull them by the arm away from the situation, or pick them up. I've seen it far too often: the kid is being an absolutet disrespectful and ill-behaved brat and the parent does no more than say "no, don't do that". If they are being highly resistant, I believe one swat to the bum to show them you mean it is fine. But, even then you must always be sure to explain to the child why their behaviour was wrong. Simply telling them NO only lets them know they can't do it, and that doing it will gain attention.

When a kid is doing something to endanger themselves or someone else, I certainly believe it garners a spank. One again, restraint is crucial, and they must have it explained to them why their actions were wrong. It is also crucial for parents to not spank their kid out of frustration or anger. That happened to me too many times when i was little and it breeds ill feeling toward the parent.
It should be done only as a last resort, to show you mean it, and to show YOU'RE the one in charge, not the child. To show that what they are doing is WRONG and NOT acceptable. But, once again, it is crucial for the child to know just why they are getting spanked. three to five years old, hell even a lot of seven year olds, do not understand principles that are communicated verbally. They just don't. A swat to the bum? The message of that is clear: "Stop what your doing. right now."
Once again, I believe only one swat, and afterwards explaining what they did wrong. Never a fullblown butt bruising. That's just phsycially and emotionally abusive.

I was spanked once. I ran away in the mall. It wasn't abuse and I learned. Never did it again. Or really anything else. A person raises their voice to me and I'll either fall apart or look for somewhere to put their head. Now I highly doubt that spanking had anything to do with how I turned out.

However...

I have three surrogate little girls, 7, 11, and 13. Never once I had it ever crossed my mind that raising a hand to these girls could have done more than me sitting down and discussing with them what they did wrong and ironing out accurate punishments. But they're good kids.

I think spanking, and true spanking ie a pat on the rear, can get the point across if nothing else will. It's not my favorite method with kids because I would rather teach them something with words than with my hand. And by words I don't mean yelling or trying to put a child down. And I understand that this happy utopian method isn't going to work all the time.

Nothing ever does. You can't always assume what you're doing is right and you have to be able to evolve/adapt your parenting. But first you have to be able to tell some thing is wrong. I think the latter is where most people lack.

Aurora Moon,

I do agree with you that Christians, or anybody, should be careful when quoting the Bible to support a position. There's a lot of ways for that kind of conversation to get out of control when people start comparing contexts and their personal experiences, etc.

However, one thing I would like to offer is that the Old Testament is not considered "outdated" by Christians who believe in the New Testament following Jesus' time on Earth (even up to the crucifixion, burial and resurrection). For a brief synopsis, the Old Testament tells of the Messiah from way early on and was highly regarded and quoted by Jesus in New Testament times. The New Testament did lead to a new way of living, because of what Jesus preached (love, forgiveness, compassion, charity and much more) and the coming of the Holy Spirit after Jesus' ascension to heaven.

I believe that the Old Testament is relevant for its historical context of telling the history of the Jewish people as well as its tellings of God's interactions with the Jews and the prophecies concerning the Messiah.

Whether or not people choose to consider it relevant is a personal decision but I did want to offer a different perspective for some additional context.

Now, back to spanking... :)

Aurora Moon
I think that everyone can agree that it shouldn't be done in anger or frustration.

However, I don't think people shouldn't quote the bible as a way to support their feelings on something like spanking. Especially not when quoting the old testament.

After all, Christan teachings states that the old testament is "out dated" as seeing Jesus had something to do with making it so that people would never need to follow the old testament ever again. The teachings also state the fact that the only reason why the old testament is there in the bible still is so that people can reflect on the history of how things used to be.

I should know, I studied the bible and the faith for a while.

So therefore--Christians who feel the need to defend something of theirs quoting the bible should be CAREFUL what part of the bible they are quoting, least they look like a compete fool for quoting from a part of the bible that was supposed to be "outdated". Epesically when it comes to things like homosexuality or even something simple as spanking.

I think spanking is fine, but you have to draw a line. You don't need a switch or anything abusive like that but a swat on the rear is just fine. And it's silly to spank your kid when they get bad grades but it's worth it if they're throwing a temper tantrum. Kids are still learning at a certain age about what to do and what not to do. A time-out is a punishment but it doesn't really accomplish anything except boredom. Or falling asleep (which I did when I was about 9). A spanking is more a firm way of getting a message across: Don't do this.

My mother spanked me but it was more of a last resort. She always warned me saying 'If you don't stop, I'll spank you' and it wasn't an empty threat. And I think I turned out fine. It was more of the public school system that screwed me up. o_O

I said it before (in this thread), and i'll say it again

Priceman
speaking of whooping ass, what the deal with the lack of spankings nowadays? I saw a woman pop her little 8 year old on the butt when she was acting a fool, and someone actually came up to her and said "you shouldn't do that". Let me tell you what, if you have kids of your own, raise them your way. Don't try to spread your infinite wisdom to others unless they ask you for it. Now, if the lady put the kid in a freaking german suplex and followed it up with a Mike Tyson uppercut then it's time to step in. A lot of parents say things like "it worked for me when i was a kid". Let me tell you something: Life has changed since you were a kid. Just because you got put in "time out" when you were bad, doesn't mean you should send little Johnny to his room stock piled with a PS2 and Plasma TV. The only thing he's gonna learn is "i can do what i want and not really get in trouble for it." Besides, after a bit of hellraising, a 30 minute sit down is all a kid needs to get some energy back and do it again.

I think the very best advice I've seen on this is "never in anger"

Just out of curiosity- how many of you actually HAVE kids? Some of your comments make me (a battle hardened single mom of two) chuckle. Good points all, but until you are faced with the actual situations, the actual job of parenthood, you don't truly know what it takes.

Parenting is a job learned while doing it. There is no instruction manual and every kid is different. You screw up constantly, and never know how well you are doing- there are no performance reveiews or raises. It is hands down the most difficult job there is and MOST important in the world. Well, if you are doing it right, it should be. The irony is that it's the easiest job to get too, and sadly there are a LOT of folks that were given the job (my ex included) who don't take it seriously.

Beating children? ABSOLUTELY not. Under no circumstances. Even swatting in anger is wrong (time outs are for PARENTS too.) But a quick swat on the bum with an extremely willful child (who wont stay in her time out) gets attention. (Speaking from experience here.) When a child tries to run in front of a car, you HAVE to teach them to NEVER do it again. Or try to teach them anyway. A butt swat hurts far less than impact from an SUV.

That's all I have to say. I will go back to lurking now.

~B

iowabarbidoll
Beating children? ABSOLUTELY not. Under no circumstances. Even swatting in anger is wrong (time outs are for PARENTS too.) But a quick swat on the bum with an extremely willful child (who wont stay in her time out) gets attention. (Speaking from experience here.) When a child tries to run in front of a car, you HAVE to teach them to NEVER do it again. Or try to teach them anyway. A butt swat hurts far less than impact from an SUV.

That's all I have to say. I will go back to lurking now.

~B

Someone

I agree, and yes, I have a little girl, who is the little princess and I would never harm aside from spoiling her with tons of Non Lead based painted play toys.

iowabarbidoll
Just out of curiosity- how many of you actually HAVE kids? Some of your comments make me (a battle hardened single mom of two) chuckle. Good points all, but until you are faced with the actual situations, the actual job of parenthood, you don't truly know what it takes.

Completely agree. Its a job that you don't need to pass an interview to get. It gets handed to you. Its amazing how many of these books on child rearing are written by people who never have had kids :D

At the same time, it doesn't mean that you can't have an opinion on the subject -- not that I think you're saying that, just that some people go to that other extreme.

mapaghimagsik

iowabarbidoll
Just out of curiosity- how many of you actually HAVE kids? Some of your comments make me (a battle hardened single mom of two) chuckle. Good points all, but until you are faced with the actual situations, the actual job of parenthood, you don't truly know what it takes.

Completely agree. Its a job that you don't need to pass an interview to get. It gets handed to you. Its amazing how many of these books on child rearing are written by people who never have had kids :D

At the same time, it doesn't mean that you can't have an opinion on the subject -- not that I think you're saying that, just that some people go to that other extreme.

Yeah, it's true that while some experience of having actual kids is needed in having a well-founded opinion on how to handle kids.... that doesn't mean that any childless person is a total moron when it comes to kids.

for example, some people may never had given birth but has experience in handling kids though being a Nanny, a 24 hour on-call babysitter, etc.....
and though those experiences of taking care of others' kids, a lot of people can realize how difficult it can be to take care of kids, and which methods might work and which methods won't.

And even if a person has never taken care of a child in his/her life, sometimes they can still recognize the fact that a parent is going overboard in discipling their kids. various bruising on the body from time to time, for instance, is a clear sign of abuse even though some of those so called "parents" might delude themselves in thinking it's just discipline. And that's when that person needs to step in by his/her chosen method in a attempt to stop such abuse.

And in a less dramatic situation, that same person could still easily recognize that a parents' methods of discipline is not just working at all if the kid is running wild all over the place, rude, and demanding of things he/she can't.