I don't know why, but when I show people on other forums my web comic, they always seem to respond very negatively.
On DD everyone seems very keen and positive, but so far two other forums have met it with absolute scorn. They really all seemed to hate it!
This leads me to wonder...
Is DD just overly positive? Since everyone is writing a web comic they don't want to say anything bad about any other comics?
Are we all just kidding ourselves and really we all suck?
Or are other forums just a hostile bunch who don't like outsiders coming in showing off their comics and so give overly negative views on anyone coming in they don't know?
Or am I just having a couple of bad experiences and becoming paranoid?

If DD users lean toward the positive, it's probably to our benefit overall. There's generally so much unfounded negativity on most forums. Realizing that once you put it out there on the internet it can be permanent, I've tried to stick to a "if you have nothing nice to say" approach. Unfortunately, that leaves me unwilling to offer much true criticism unless I have something of a rapport with someone and am sure they can take it. However, it's more helpful to have your emerging strengths pointed out than to have someone attack your work on groundless or subjective criteria.

The fact is, people are generally nice here. :)

harkovast
Or are other forums just a hostile bunch who don't like outsiders coming in showing off their comics and so give overly negative views on anyone coming in they don't know?

You'll find that a lot.

At DD people are more artistic and adventurous in their comic tastes. Some might scoff at that, but they're shallow morons, so I'd expect them too. :)

The fact is we just accept and are interested in a wider range of art styles, which is quite refreshing in a community! Most places out there are depressingly mainstream, with limited taste in what are basically the Britney Spears and Madonnas of comic styles: the typical look of mainstream Manga, American style comics, or the typical style of some humour webcomics (Penny Arcade, Ctrl Alt Delete etc.)

Fur Affinity, despite the welcoming title, were very negative.
I was not feeling any affinity at all.
I've gone right off furrys now, I renounce my furry allegiance!

Yes, it can depend on the forum you go to, what their interests are and how inclusive they can be. If there is a lot of 'clan' mentality then any newcomer will be drummed out no matter what, unless they can fit the very narrow criteria of acceptance.

DD is sometimes criticized for its 'culture of nice' (the positive, if-you-can't-say-anything-nice attitude you see a lot here) but the fact is that almost everyone on DD is an amateur and some of them are very young. As fellow amateurs, most of us recognize that it's really important that people get support, and that criticism is usually received better if it's made gently. There are other places to get hardcore crit from people not willing to pull punches. Most of us are just happy that there are other people who share our interest (making comics) and wouldn't want to discourage them of that by coming off as a bunch of jerks.

Whenever someone asks me which free host to use, I always say 'If you want a community with nice people, go with drunkduck'. And it's true, you guys are the nicest people I've ever met.

Over at smackjeeves, I kept getting insulted and at comicgenesis it's hard to get some real feedback. DD is one of the best places I've ever been to for hosting webcomics in terms of community.

I think you can get just as useful critiques here, but people have somehow decided that other members of this site are fellow human beings that can be talked to on a mature level as equals -- rather than either bashing ("I'm better than you" ) or the insecure bashing ("I feel better about myself by making others feel worse" ). Like skool said, we're amateurs with no delusions of grandeur, and I think people here feel proud, rather than intimidated, when each other succeeds.

I don't think DD is the frowned upon "useless nice" as outsiders view it. People around here give very useful tips, advice, and critiques for improvement. The most useful critiques are neither gushy/flowery nor harsh/degrading. They are detailed and honest with the focus on improvement rather than discouragement. When people give you tips and advice, it is encouraging, it shows they care. People don't talk down to each other here. They talk as equals (although, I must say, I still believe most of the artists here possess far superior skills, and I have been astonished and humbled that they would be so helpful and encouraging).

Of course, another difference is at DD it has become part of the community not to give critiques that are unwanted or unrequested. People are welcome to be their own island and not be bothered if they don't put themselves out there. That doesn't mean the help isn't here for those who want it.

Are we all just kidding ourselves and really we all suck?

No, DD comics don't all suck. Comics here range from pro quality to child amateur.

And yes, you do have a ways to go before you reach pro quality. Also, without formal and intensive art education, some hobby artists never reach that level.

I noticed that you like to draw attention to your own comics a lot. That's not a bad trait per se... but when combined with comics that is far below pro quality, one tends to draw negative attention.

IMO, DD community is nice because they don't take things as seriously (or anally). They're not going to waste time fighting over the internet about free webcomics, as if it means something.

Only the best webcomics i've seen today comes from Drunk Duck. It's okay to critique someone's work, I am accepting of criticism, as long as it's gonna help me in the end xD. Not the rude and hurtful stuff you'll get in other communities.

I think that everyone here at DD is here for support and to meet people who share the same interest in webcomics as they do. I've learned the most about drawing techniques and story telling strategies here than any where else.

I notice also that you've been putting your art in the spotlight much more these days. I think those at the other communities have sticks shoved up their butts to say such hurtful things about your work. Your art is truely amazing and it deserves much recognition. Props to you for doing a fine job with colored pencils, I wouldn't have the patience hehe :p. DD community is friendly, yet honest. If good work is within visibility, it will be recognized :3.

The only forum I ever posted comics to back in the day was a comic art forum. It was also for people with a similar style as mine. Still posting your comic seemed to be a bit of nono since they preferred pinups and no one ever seemed to like my stuff. Drunkduck seems to lack the elitist attitude that was present there.

Still no one likes my stuff but I do get more friendly comments here. My friend seems to get more critiques too but they're always friendly and very helpful. In short, the duck is great.

yup yup. DD is awesome. it's why i came back here some many years later for my stupid book.

everyone has always been helpful and positive. it is a very strong community, and unlike any other web community i've found. people here are dicks and assholes just because the internet lets them be. they are the people that they are in real life.

i've even gotten into a few debates here on the forums, and in the end we just agree to disagree......which is freaking unheard of for a web community!! i love it here. and i know i'll be hosting my next project here as well. :)

DD is definitely one of the nicer forums, but Hark did you post your comic in a place designated for plugging or advertising your comics or did you post it in a main discussion place? People are going to get very hostile if you're just there to plug, and rightly so because it's annoying. If you'd made a sig with your comic and posted some real content(as in not about your comic) you'd get way better results.

Even on DD we had those people who talked about their comics non-stop with every post, even in general discussion, eventually you just start rolling eyes at their posts.

But anyhow yeah DD is very nice, and even the admins are a rare breed as most forums i've been to with active admins had some kind of power fetish and just acted like pricks to everyone(while playing favorites with posters). :/

Skullbie- I only plugged it in the "plug your comic here place".
Despite my shameless self promotion I am not completely devoid of manners!

Oh well i'm pretty sure if you'd put more overt baby oil furrry sex scenes in you comic they'd have welcomed you with open paws :) It's not you, it's them. *pats*

DD has always been a pretty nice place. It can be good to reinforce and to encourage but sometimes it'll work against you. My thought, is that you should go to DD for moral support, and head to other more harsher forums or sites for some critique that will help you improve. That's what I do anyway, and I think it might be working :/

harkovast
I don't know why, but when I show people on other forums my web comic, they always seem to respond very negatively.
On DD everyone seems very keen and positive, but so far two other forums have met it with absolute scorn. They really all seemed to hate it!
This leads me to wonder...
Is DD just overly positive? Since everyone is writing a web comic they don't want to say anything bad about any other comics?
Are we all just kidding ourselves and really we all suck?
Or are other forums just a hostile bunch who don't like outsiders coming in showing off their comics and so give overly negative views on anyone coming in they don't know?
Or am I just having a couple of bad experiences and becoming paranoid?

You should have been here in the old days of DD.

lol if you can't take criticism, you'd gtfo or whine to the admin about those "assholes" who give you criticism.

Kyupol, I think you should read my original post more carefully.
I was not saying I was hostile to people giving me criticism, I was saying that I wondered if people here were overly nice and other sites were more realistic in their appraisals.
Some I found were just being very critical, others I found were just being obnoxious.

Mind you, people on DD failed to tell me I had a typo on the FIRST FREAKIN PAGE for months until someone on another forum pointed it out...

Skullbie, yes my failure to depict animal people performing a sexual act that the bible expressly forbids caused them to turn against me.

I would say that DD is somewhere in between being too nice and just knowing how to give a decent critique. Part of it is that we have in general a older population than most other communities. The average age of active posters here seems to be in the mid to late teens and our admins and longtime posters tend to be older than that even, which is almost unheard of. Most communities like DD are populated by a majority of preteens who come with their usual baggage. So a lot of people here are old enough to know how to give a critique in a way that it's not unnecessarily abrasive or rude. True, a lot of folks will just skip to saying nice things because they're not sure how well others will take it or they don't know how to phrase it, but for the most part I think it's just that the older posters set an example of behavior that is pretty well followed.

Harkovast, if you ask DDers for serious criticisms aimed at helping you improve your art or your comic then you will get it. We have a forum dedicated to that pursuit. Depending on how you ask you may receive feedback that you will come to regret and so it falls under the 'be careful what you ask for' category.

What's good about DD, however, is that you are unlikely to get 'helpful' criticism if you don't ask for it. Not everyone wants that stuff and it's nice to belong to a group that is as tolerant as the Drunk Duck art community.

So, yes the Duck is different in that regard from other communities. I like it FOR that reason. It's an artistic refuge where most of us can get along with one another, do our own thing and occassionally talk shop without reaching for a baseball bat. That's nice.

As for typos,

harkovast
Mind you, people on DD failed to tell me I had a typo on the FIRST FREAKIN PAGE for months until someone on another forum pointed it out...

Well, some people are good at catching those and some are not.

I would say it is a cruel disservice to not tell someone they have a typo.
You should always point these out, because finding out about them much later is horrible.

harkovast
I would say it is a cruel disservice to not tell someone they have a typo.
You should always point these out, because finding out about them much later is horrible.

I usually get pointed out if I have a typo, it was probably just overlooked. :]

To be honest, if you have any opinion on my comic I would like to hear it.
Obviously everyone likes praise, but I like to think if people hated something you would have the decency to say what it was and why.
As long as it is not just done to be rude, in a "its crap" way, then I like that kind of thing.
At one point someone suggested putting more people in the background on the early battles in my comic and it made the whole thing look massively better, so I think giving suggests in comments is very helpful.
I think refusing to accept people posting things they think you could improve seems arrogant, as if your comic is above criticism.

Most of the time, readers point out typos IF they see them. Keep in mind that they are READERS not editors, and most are not critics. People at DD read for fun. They aren't going to go over your comic with a fine-toothed comb. Most just want to follow stories and enjoy the art.

It is nice when people can catch typos, but, like I said, people aren't reading critically. You can't expect your readers to be editors for you. YOU need to recheck your work carefully or have an appointed editor that will do so. Unless you're particularly anal, I imagine most people don't go through every article, novel, and comic book they read and underline all the spelling and grammar mistakes.

I guess there are communities where all commenters are critics, but here they are audience. They genuinely like artwork and good stories. The truth is good critical analysis is difficult to do. It takes time to go into depth, and readers just want to enjoy comics here. Critical analysis ruins the reading experience to some degree. I think a lot of the internet is full of people wanting to be humorous cynics watching all the details and pointing out all the bad things of every thing. That said, there are critics here. They just keep critiques generally separate from the comic commentary. While you might occasionally get a good critical comment in your comment (especially if you ASK in the author's notes -- if you want those comments regularly, say so, and be specific), DrunkDuckers have designated critique areas, the Review forum (as you have seen, but I'm linking for others ;) ). I think you get better critiques there than you would get from any wayward reader, because people are asked to go through a comic with a fine-toothed comb, reading with the specific purpose of being critical. Like I mentioned before, critical reading takes time, and is not particularly 'fun' to many people (more like a chore), which is why in that forum, you must give reviews to receive reviews.

I agree Vickie. Last year I spent some time in the review forum and put some real effort into generating useful criticisms. This is always difficult for me to do, however, because one must identify and separate stylistic quirkiness from artistic errors, and sometimes that's darn difficult to do!

For instance, I wouldn't presume to critique the Harkovast comic because after looking over several pages I generally cannot tell the difference between stylistic preferences and possible art errors. I suspect that I would end up recommending stylistic changes and that would be wrong.

For instance a specific problem area as I see it is the feet of Harkovast characters, which definitely look too small to me for the over all size of the characters. Well, is this an art error or a unique stylistic quirk to be accepted and cherished rather than rejected? I suspect that it is the latter. Were I to make such an observation on the page's comment box then I would probably be just an ignorant peasant.

All of this is why it's probably best to restrict such comments to either PQs or the designated review forum. As you noted, most readers are on these pages as fans rather than art critics.

All of which is why, unless an artist asks for blunt criticism regarding comics pages in the artist's comment box then it is best NOT to leave such criticisms in comment boxes. For every Harkovast style artist bravely craving artistic feedback, come what may, there are a dozen that simply want the occasional, pleasant, passing comment as they share their artwork and story with the world. I am rather glad that Drunk Duck is more orientated towards being pleasant than critical in the comments blocks.

Charley Horse- How dare you criticise my perfect comic! You'll pay for this insult! I will dedicate every waking moment to my revenge on you, you peasent! ... Just kidding!
Serious answer- I like the little feet, it makes them look agile (to me, anyway).
Now that is a good example because I don't agree with your criticism, but I think it is valid and useful to hear and it means that if you do praise me in the future it will be more meaningful. Now I can rest assured that you are being honest and not just giving me praise in order to safe guard my feelings. So if you do say something is cool then it must be REALLY cool.
When someone says they don't like something but then later say they love something else, to me that is the most precious praise of all.
Does that make sense?
A guy called Cthonic Cultist is really tough on my comic in my forum bit, asking questions about pretty much everything and makes me defend virtually everything I say. And though it is hard work to appease him, I take comfort that he is engaged enough to go to the trouble to question me.

Usedbooks- I think I am one of those cynical critical of everything on the inter net people you just mentioned. I must learn to control my innate desire to review everything I read. (You'll notice I'm all over the review thread already).

Final thought- Usedbooks is the Vickie charleyhorse refers too, right?

Yes, I use Vickie rather than Usedbooks because that's the name she has on her DD home page. It's a personal quirk. I find it difficult to refer to someone as their comic book or strip title. On the other hand, I'm usually too lazy to read everyone's home page personal block to see if they revealed a personal name. Vickie of usedbooks is the exception. Yay for her or boo for me -- whichever way that works out.

I haven't been here too long, but I was pleasantly surprised at the, um, pleasantness of the community here. I was hesitant at first to actually start posting in the forums here, honestly- every other web community / forums I've been a part of was super elitist and, eh, "snarky", to say the least. But everyone here has been not only "nice", but often very helpful.

As for crits- I don't point out negative crap on folks' comments or anything. Uh, should I? I usually give an honest opinion when people ask for it. I try to frame it in a constructive way, and I try to point out the strengths or high-points as well as the areas that need improving. But sometimes I still feel like I'm being too blunt/ harsh. I mean, I'm not exactly what you'd call "great" when it comes to my own skills; but I can't get the "teacher" part of my brain to stop tellin' folks where they're wrong. Meh. I'm kind of a jerk like that.

Anyhow. I find that the "Comic Review" section seems to be a bit more likely to point out the flaws or weak points of a comic in detail than the Plug/Crit section. Still not in a mean way, but sometimes I'll read reviews and think, "Oh, wow- you got told!" ;)

For the last month I've been wandering to other forums. I'm not saying where but I've seen the nastiest trolling...

Well anyway, DD's mods are pretty good about locking treads that get ugly fast. I think that's what keeps the trolls away.

JillyFoo
For the last month I've been wandering to other forums. I'm not saying where but I've seen the nastiest trolling...

Well anyway, DD's mods are pretty good about locking treads that get ugly fast. I think that's what keeps the trolls away.

So if we want to make some more good forums, we need to convince the DD mods to also be mods for the new forums?

Hell, maybe we should clone them and have them monitor the internet. That seems like it'd be a good idea.

harkovast
Kyupol, I think you should read my original post more carefully.
I was not saying I was hostile to people giving me criticism, I was saying that I wondered if people here were overly nice and other sites were more realistic in their appraisals.
Some I found were just being very critical, others I found were just being obnoxious.

Mind you, people on DD failed to tell me I had a typo on the FIRST FREAKIN PAGE for months until someone on another forum pointed it out...

Skullbie, yes my failure to depict animal people performing a sexual act that the bible expressly forbids caused them to turn against me.

I think people here don't care anymore. The people back in the days of 2003, were alot more brutal. I remember my comics getting critiqued more often. Sometimes its from people who really mean well and can say something constructive, but other times, its from people who just feel good being a dick on the internet.

There were lots of "snipers" who abused the rating system by putting a "1" with some kind of smartass comment just for the sake of knocking off a certain comic off the top 30, or when some comic suddenly got to number 1 even if it doesnt deserve it.

And because of that, there were more flame wars in the forums about this kind of stuff, that the admins had to do a whole bunch of stuff.

Anyway, as a long time DD member, the old crew in this site were alot more serious with comics.