I'm a fan of Grand Theft Auto games. They're great games by far. Rockstar has done a lot of really great games the last six or seven years, but the GTA games are always the best. I was really excited to get part IV, this year. In august, they pushed the release to the second quarter of 2008. Now just like I predicted,
rumors are floating about it being pushed back even further. This is why I hate to pre-order a game or get hyped up for a games release. What was so bad is that I purposely tried not to get into the GTA IV stuff. Maybe two weeks prior to first push back, I was getting excited about it. I read a few articles here and there that made the game sound like the most epic thing ever. I made the mistake of seeing the videos. The screenshots. all that stuff.

Now it looks like I'll be enjoying Resident Evil 5 which was announced as a 2009 game, before I do GTA IV. Dammit.

"And a great sigh was heard all throughout the internet."
-king of the internet on the release date of everything dorky that gets pushed back

I almost expect it now. I jes anticipate to play sometihng eventually. The only game that I got tired of waitign for was Final Fantasy 12. But I was rpg burned out at the time anyway when it came out.

Something really odd has been happening with Take-Two. It's unnatural of them to act this way and have shunned us all. I'd wish they cut the bullshit and just say that GTA IV is being released next October.

All of this false hope : ( -- but then again you can't displease investors by saying, Well, maybe a few more months.

While I do hate the push-backs, I'm willing to wait if it's going to benefit the game to its highest potential.

Terminal
Something really odd has been happening with Take-Two. It's unnatural of them to act this way and have shunned us all. I'd wish they cut the bullshit and just say that GTA IV is being released next October.

I want uncut Manhunt 2 on my xbox. I don't want to have to find some PSP to play it on.

Or worse, play it on the wii. As much fun as strangling someone would be with the Wiimote, I don't like playing games with it. Considering that Zelda is the only actual game on the system that I've played, it was uncomfortable. I liked the game, but after a few hours of swinging the remotes my hands cramped up.

I can play xbox all night. No problems.

marine

Terminal
Something really odd has been happening with Take-Two. It's unnatural of them to act this way and have shunned us all. I'd wish they cut the bullshit and just say that GTA IV is being released next October.

I want uncut Manhunt 2 on my xbox. I don't want to have to find some PSP to play it on.

Or worse, play it on the wii. As much fun as strangling someone would be with the Wiimote, I don't like playing games with it. Considering that Zelda is the only actual game on the system that I've played, it was uncomfortable. I liked the game, but after a few hours of swinging the remotes my hands cramped up.

I can play xbox all night. No problems.

I agree about LoZ

Also, they have a PS2 version if you don't want it for PSP.

I saw the PS2 version in Gamestop earlier today. I had no idea that there was a PSP version though.

How are people playing Zelda on the Wii? Because I keep hearing about people's arms getting tired playing it. Are you actually "swinging" the remote? Because it works just as well if you wiggle it a little.

Anyway, most highprofile games I've played that have had extensive pushbacks have turned out to be pretty top-notch when they finally come out. There are exceptions, of course. Really the question is: did they push it back to add more content, or because half the programming team quit and they need to salvage what they have left?

Inkmonkey
How are people playing Zelda on the Wii? Because I keep hearing about people's arms getting tired playing it. Are you actually "swinging" the remote? Because it works just as well if you wiggle it a little.

I got annoyed with actually swinging it after a few minutes of playing. I was still annoyed when I was just barely moving it.

Really though, I stopped doing normal attacks after a really short time. I always jumped if I didn't have to use a specific attack to kill the enemy.

That game was awesome, but I still really wish I'd gotten the Gamecube version. :cry:

I think game delays are going to remain a common practice, but we need to realize that we'll be happier with the delayed and polished game than we would be with the game they release on time. It just hurts a little that we have to wait. I've had Smash Bros. and a few Zeldas delayed on me, but in the end I settle on the fact that it's for the better.

Now, full-year delays really do suck.

Hawk
Now, full-year delays really do suck.

I almost reserved this new Zelda for my gamecube. I decided not to, since I had a feeling it would get delayed. Delayed for two years. What the fuck.

Resident Evil 4. There was a time, I thought it would never come out. I saw screenshots from the early misty version and Devil May Cry came out in what like 2001. Then I hear nothing for years. Suddenly a video shows up that makes the game look like the most amazing thing ever. A few months later, the game is released and is amazing. I'm happy they showed off a gameplay trailer and then said look for it in 2009. Thats realistic and even if its a long wait, its not as bad as saying "oh hey, October this is whats coming out. October 16th. Oh wait, no I meant quarter 2. No no, actually October 16th is a good release date. Just 2009."

I feel like a douche when I get into the hype of a game. I feel that its close enough now to look at the stuff for Assassins Creed and Mass Effect, but I'm still skeptical to look at anything.

Game delays don't bother me so much IF they are delays for quality control. Game design and development is not a perfect science and the more complex games get, the more work has to go into creating them. Most highly anticipated games I expect to be delayed AT LEAST once from their initial release estimate. You also have to take into consideration, the higher the expectations are, the more likely a publisher will give the developer more time if they say they need it. I think they are starting to get the picture that nothing is worse than an overhyped game that doesn't deliver.

What really irks me, though, are delays for stupid things. Like the dalay of the last Zelda for gamecube so they could release the wii version first, despite the fact that the game was originally developed for the gamecube. It wouldn't surprise me if 6-9 months of the dalay was just so they could make a quick port for the wii so they'd have a title to release with the launch of the system and Zelda was ready for release a good half year or so before the launch. A lot of games also get shuffled around to avoid having too many highly anticipated titles competing against one another. I know one rumor about the new GTA was that they wanted to avoid too much overlap with the holiday season games so they pushed the date back. It also happens a lot with the RPG genre. Most companies try to avoid releasing RPGs at the same time as major Square/Enix releases.

It might be tempting to think that games like GTA and Zelda were pushed back for some silly reason and left to sit until their release, but it's most likely a safe bet that these games were polished and improved in the meantime.

I can 100% guarantee that the delay on Zelda was to push the Wii version out first. the gamecube version was finished first, but Nintendo prioritized the Wii version for the holiday season and held back printing of the Gamecube discs. They had the capability of doing a simultaneous release, but wanted to push more Wiis off the shelf, so they prioritized the Wii version. This isn't an assumption, it is what Nintendo told the press. Polishing had nothing to do with it.

Has Mass Effect been scheduled for release and delayed? No. It comes out later this month.

How about Kane & Lynch Dead Men? I don't think so. Comes out next week, like they said.

Blue Dragon was released in Japan a few months before its scheduled release here, mostly for localization and language changes, but did it arrive on the date they said it would?

I hate it when people say one thing, but then come up with an excuse not to do it. GTA sounded done to me. The magazines and websites described a mission with lots of options on how to beat said mission. Trailers looked like a game that was nearly finished.

Resident Evil 5 looks like they had one area or level ready to show off, so I can assume that the time to develop it is substantial. I'd like to hope they don't delay its 2009 release.

isukun
I can 100% guarantee that the delay on Zelda was to push the Wii version out first. the gamecube version was finished first, but Nintendo prioritized the Wii version for the holiday season and held back printing of the Gamecube discs.

That's true. I didn't say anything contrary to that... but that doesn't mean they didn't spend the extra time polishing the game. Read my entire post next time before looking for things to argue about.

Judging from the final product, I seriously doubt they spent any time polishing the gamecube version. They did spend a little time flipping the Wii version and adding in graphical modes that were entirely possible on the gamecube, but for some reason were left out (further supporting the idea that Nintendo didn't spend any time polishing the gamecube version). When you create a port, you want the original to be pretty close to final, anyway.

About six months before the Wii release, Nintendo was claiming the further delay was so that the dev team could add in Wii controller functionality in the gamecube version of the game. A lot of people bought this lie despite Reggie Fils-Aime's statement that such a task was impossible with the way the Wii was built. Even Shigeru Miyamoto lied about it, when the company was in fact working on a port of the game for the Wii, instead (two versions were announced a few weeks after Miyamoto's statement). Funny how Mathieu Minel was forced to retract his statment, but when it's Miyamoto, it's OK to lie.

Nintendo's actions really don't make a lot of sense any other way. They needed something to sell their new system, so they shifted their focus to the Wii port once the gamecube version was complete. They couldn't release the Gamecube version, though, since it would take away from the Wii's thunder during the holiday season, so they pushed the date back and sat on it while pushing all their developers onto cleaning up the wii version. Prioritizing a version of a game for a system with a guaranteed lower install base duing the holiday season is poor business unless you're trying to sell something else.

isukun
Judging from the final product, I seriously doubt they spent any time polishing the gamecube version. They did spend a little time flipping the Wii version and adding in graphical modes that were entirely possible on the gamecube, but for some reason were left out (further supporting the idea that Nintendo didn't spend any time polishing the gamecube version). When you create a port, you want the original to be pretty close to final, anyway.

About six months before the Wii release, Nintendo was claiming the further delay was so that the dev team could add in Wii controller functionality in the gamecube version of the game. A lot of people bought this lie despite Reggie Fils-Aime's statement that such a task was impossible with the way the Wii was built. Even Shigeru Miyamoto lied about it, when the company was in fact working on a port of the game for the Wii, instead (two versions were announced a few weeks after Miyamoto's statement). Funny how Mathieu Minel was forced to retract his statment, but when it's Miyamoto, it's OK to lie.

Nintendo's actions really don't make a lot of sense any other way. They needed something to sell their new system, so they shifted their focus to the Wii port once the gamecube version was complete. They couldn't release the Gamecube version, though, since it would take away from the Wii's thunder during the holiday season, so they pushed the date back and sat on it while pushing all their developers onto cleaning up the wii version. Prioritizing a version of a game for a system with a guaranteed lower install base duing the holiday season is poor business unless you're trying to sell something else.

Newsflash: Nintendo tries their damnedest to sell new system! Players are shocked to find that soon-to-be obsolete system is ignored in favor of new system!

...Seriously, they're a business. I'm sure we could all name just as much annoying crap Sony or Microsoft have done in the name of profits.

isukun
Judging from the final product, I seriously doubt they spent any time polishing the gamecube version. They did spend a little time flipping the Wii version and adding in graphical modes that were entirely possible on the gamecube, but for some reason were left out (further supporting the idea that Nintendo didn't spend any time polishing the gamecube version). When you create a port, you want the original to be pretty close to final, anyway.

It's true that the port to Wii was a stunt designed to get people on board the Wii. I won't deny that, or even that it's a bit underhanded, given that they said otherwise for so long. We may never know exactly what changes happened to the game after that last delay... But with what I know about game development and deadlines, I'm positive they didn't just sit on the game for the remaining time while waiting for the Wii to launch. That was my original point.

And with what I know about economics, I don't see why they WOULD devote the time, energy and money to superfluous polishing, especially when they didn't even add in the little touches that the Wii version got which were entirely possible on the gamecube (like widescreen and progressive scan support). If a game is ready for release, it doesn't make much sense to spend extra money polishing it while waiting to print and ship the title. It's an added expense at the end of the production cycle and that's just bad business.

...Seriously, they're a business. I'm sure we could all name just as much annoying crap Sony or Microsoft have done in the name of profits.

Yes, and it bugs me when Sony and Microsoft do it, too. Nintendo just bugs me more because the fanboys like to pretend Nintendo is somehow the only company that DOESN'T try to screw their customers when they're just as profit-oriented as the other guys.

isukun
And with what I know about economics, I don't see why they WOULD devote the time, energy and money to superfluous polishing, especially when they didn't even add in the little touches that the Wii version got which were entirely possible on the gamecube (like widescreen and progressive scan support). If a game is ready for release, it doesn't make much sense to spend extra money polishing it while waiting to print and ship the title. It's an added expense at the end of the production cycle and that's just bad business.

...Seriously, they're a business. I'm sure we could all name just as much annoying crap Sony or Microsoft have done in the name of profits.

Yes, and it bugs me when Sony and Microsoft do it, too. Nintendo just bugs me more because the fanboys like to pretend Nintendo is somehow the only company that DOESN'T try to screw their customers when they're just as profit-oriented as the other guys.

Yeah really, Nintendo would never release something just for the money.



And whats the deal with Red Steel? Your sword only swings in the same three hit combo animation. You could swing it anyway you want, but it never swings like a real sword. Same with Zelda, except you can go horizontal or vertical. What the shit Nintendo?

isukun

...Seriously, they're a business. I'm sure we could all name just as much annoying crap Sony or Microsoft have done in the name of profits.

Yes, and it bugs me when Sony and Microsoft do it, too. Nintendo just bugs me more because the fanboys like to pretend Nintendo is somehow the only company that DOESN'T try to screw their customers when they're just as profit-oriented as the other guys.

Yeah, and Sony fanboys pretend Sony doesn't do, and Microsoft fanboys... well, not really that one. It's a little too obvious that Microsoft has a strong focus on profits for even the hardcore to deny. But really stupid Microsoft fanboys will deny it, I suppose. But then again, it's hard to be a closeminded fanboy and not be pretty stupid...

I'm a fanboy, and I never claimed Sony wasn't out for money.

isukun
And with what I know about economics, I don't see why they WOULD devote the time, energy and money to superfluous polishing

You seem to forget that people review games and the performance of a title like Zelda reflects on Nintendo. Plus, Miyamoto and Aonuma are perfectionists.

marine
And whats the deal with Red Steel? Your sword only swings in the same three hit combo animation. You could swing it anyway you want, but it never swings like a real sword. Same with Zelda, except you can go horizontal or vertical. What the shit Nintendo?

While we're on this tangent you need to know that the Wiimote simply cannot perfectly calculate its exact position in space, so I don't think you're ever going to get that kind of game on the Wii. It needs more advanced technology. The Wiimote can only detect where it's pointing (so long as it's pointing at the TV) and what directions it's moving in or rotating, but not the exact distance that is has moved. This makes it impossible to create the perfect sword simulation, and even if it did you'd be disappointed because your real-life swing would not be obstructed by the same things your avatar's swing is. Plus, your arm will get tired.

Hawk

marine
And whats the deal with Red Steel? Your sword only swings in the same three hit combo animation. You could swing it anyway you want, but it never swings like a real sword. Same with Zelda, except you can go horizontal or vertical. What the shit Nintendo?

While we're on this tangent you need to know that the Wiimote simply cannot perfectly calculate its exact position in space, so I don't think you're ever going to get that kind of game on the Wii. It needs more advanced technology. The Wiimote can only detect where it's pointing (so long as it's pointing at the TV) and what directions it's moving in or rotating, but not the exact distance that is has moved. This makes it impossible to create the perfect sword simulation, and even if it did you'd be disappointed because your real-life swing would not be obstructed by the same things your avatar's swing is. Plus, your arm will get tired.

Its lame then. I can hide behind things and blindfire at people, as well as use a chainsaw bayonette on the xbox 360. Also I got an awesome GTA clone called Saints Row and an open world game where you can kill zombies in a mall, with just about anything that isn't nailed down.

Microsoft are the most evil of all the console makers, thats my main reason for supporting them. At least they're pretty up front about raping the shit out of you. Nintendo does it Apple style with stupid gimmicks so people are sucked in all the more.

...well, anyways, what unforescene circumstances caused GTA IV to be delayed anyways? A far as I remember, the game was in great space the last time it was publicly shown.

Yeah, and Sony fanboys pretend Sony doesn't do, and Microsoft fanboys... well, not really that one.

Actually, of the three, I find Sony fanboys to be the most willing to admit that Sony is a corporation out for money. When I see them defend their system of choice, they tend to do so by pointing out how Microsoft and Nintendo aren't any better. I do find Microsoft fans to often be hypocritical. They love to overlook Microsoft's aggressive business tactics while demonizing Sony and their "arrogance".

You seem to forget that people review games and the performance of a title like Zelda reflects on Nintendo. Plus, Miyamoto and Aonuma are perfectionists.

And if they had cared about that with the gamecube version, don't you think they would have fixed the framerate issues and the fact that the gamecube version didn't support widescreen and progressive scan? Aonuma must not have cared THAT MUCH about making the gamecube version perfect since they only fixed those issues on the Wii (despite having MUCH more time to work on the gamecube version).

isukun
And if they had cared about that with the gamecube version, don't you think they would have fixed the framerate issues and the fact that the gamecube version didn't support widescreen and progressive scan? Aonuma must not have cared THAT MUCH about making the gamecube version perfect since they only fixed those issues on the Wii (despite having MUCH more time to work on the gamecube version).

You know, you're so intent on dumping on Nintendo that you're ignoring logic now. You've failed to realize that no game is ever perfect and the Gamecube may not have supported Widescreen because its processor power was not quite as strong as the Wii. Plus, you've strayed so far off the point for this it's actually kind of funny. You can blurt out whatever screwball biased response to this that you want, I'm done with the conversation.

Oh c'mon you know you love him.

Hawk
You know, you're so intent on dumping on Nintendo that you're ignoring logic now. You've failed to realize that no game is ever perfect and the Gamecube may not have supported Widescreen because its processor power was not quite as strong as the Wii. Plus, you've strayed so far off the point for this it's actually kind of funny. You can blurt out whatever screwball biased response to this that you want, I'm done with the conversation.

He actually did say "The Gamecube version could have had Widescreen and Progressive Scan, because the Gamecube is capable of that". And Isukun tends to know his tech.

Just sayin'.

Am I wrong in thinking that all the current gen systems aren't up to par?

Also they're trying to say they aren't going to delay it. They always do that. Its the same song and dance every fucking time. I'm tired of it.