Not sure where to put this, but since I'm asking for help, I'll put it here.

Now:
Vampires. Lame subject, amirite? That's the point. Rehashed and reused and savaged like whores, they've become nothing more than watered down cliches. My point being, they suck. They're losers. If they went to a party they'd never get any action unless they had their crazy mind powers, and that puts them on the same level as a drink tamperer.

So, how could I approach the subject in a way that doesn't make them lame as... well, vampires? I've been given the idea of draining them down to mindless killing machines again (like hyenas, was the analogy; they'll eat until they puke and then eat more), but I want something that would allow me to cast them as protagonists as well as antagonists, yet keep them from being made of failure.

tl;dr: Thread name.

re-invent the vampire.

Dont use the overused european context of it.

In southeast asian cultures, their versions of vampires are more interesting (in my opinion) because they are somewhat 'different'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manananggal [en.wikipedia.org]


Or you can mix it up together with other creatures like dragons or elves and such.

It's not easy I can tell you that.

...but you may have something there with the monster vampires. Maybe that is. Old vampire movies like Lost Boys and Fright Night were the win anyway, kind of depends on what sort of beastly vampires you mean and what sort of stuff you like.

Kyupol also has a point, there are HUNDREDS of vampire myths...perhaps some research could do you good. Even Ancient Egypt had vampire stories. (Ehh, as far as I know.)

Ask yourself WHY you want to work with vampires.. What actually interests you about them? That's probably the key to making the creatures your own.

I'm trying to think how you could make a mindless killing machine a protagonist, if you were to go with that version. Well, the old Buff the Vampire Killer show simply made the vampire hero the only vampire with a soul. Thus he could feel angst over having been unspeakably evil. Of course he still had a taste for blood, and the twist was that he had to keep fighting his own instinct for going for the jugular.

Generally speaking a protagonist has a reason for doing good. He may or may not willingly embrace the mission. Sometimes there's more emotional impact if the protagonist really wants to be evil, but finds that option closed to him for some reason.

I'm offering just vague generalities for the simple reason that the westernized version of the blood sucker has, as you noted, been done unto death. As the others pointed out, in such a case you either mine for variations on the mythic type found in other cultures or you sort of sneak up on it using a technique sort of like I laid out here.

I think you've got my idea the best, Charley; it's not the vampires I'm so worried about, it's the characters. I mean, how do you portray a vampire villain who isn't either calculating and whatnot and an evil bastard or an outright bloodthirsty monster? My question, I suppose, is really about the characters moreso than the creatures themselves.

Vampire: The Requiem RPG setting sort of combined the Brahm Stoker vampire with the feral vampiric beasts in an interesting world. For the most part, they're just like normal humans but they're aware of their powers and try to keep them a secret in order to preserve their bloodline. Some vampires are good and only feed on animal blood, others use their powers to become big and successful, while others submit to the inner beast and turn into monsters.

Take the vampire approach in a realistic direction. Think to yourself "What would I do if I became an undead monster? Would I flip out and go insane? Would I embrace my religion/philosophies that I had in life or make new ones?" Make a story revolve around how someone adjusts to the new life while finding allies, enemies, and avoiding people who might fear him.

Personally, my favorite vampire archetype was in I Am Legend. The vampires were approached scientifically and "vampirism" was a virus, not a disease or magical malady. It inflicted the brain and reproduced using blood cells. It stopped the heart so new blood couldn't be made thus creating a lust for "fresh" blood. It excreted a sticky glue that stopped the penetration of wounds because oxygen would cause the blood to flow freely thus causing the virus to leave the body which would die. Garlic and religious symbols only worked because the victim wasn't unnatural, they were literally insane; if they revered the cross, they would be afraid of the cross but a Jewish vampire would only fear the torah, etc. The sun killed them because the body draws nutrients from the sun and so forth.

Hopefully the new Will Smith movie won't ruin the awesome lore of the original book and graphic novel, but the scientific approach to mainly religious/superstitious beings was a nice touch.

In Terry Pratchett's Discworld books there are vampires who have gone 'cold turkey' and resist the urge for blood. They even attend meetings similiar to AA.

The aboriginals of Australia had a myth of a creature that lived in trees and dropped down on people walking underneath to drink their blood... sort of like a really pissed off koala with huge teeth I imagine.

Dropbears, mate. Dropbears.

I'm an avid Pratchett fan.

cartoonprofessor
In Terry Pratchett's Discworld books there are vampires who have gone 'cold turkey' and resist the urge for blood. They even attend meetings similiar to AA.

Yeah, but he wants non-cliche vampires, the vampires in the Discworld books were deliberately made as cliched as possible.

Yup, it's not about the vampirism, it's about the characters. If you go way out there with alternate vampirism, such as Kyupol's Pacific vampire demon-thing, then you're making a monster movie, not a character. You stick with the Western vampire (maybe with some small modifications), but your real hook would be character. You merge the vampirism with a character facet that is fresh (and works with vampirism), and you get an interesting vampire.

In my mind I'm reminded of an old vampire plot idea of mine that I'll never use, as I type this.

here ya go!
Take the eighties high school drama of a nerd who is picked on, has a crush on the hot girl, not very atheletic, but super smart and working his way to go to a prestigious college like Yale or Harvard. Then said nerd makesout with a hot girl at a a Cosplay convention gets bit while attending by this girl vampire in disguise of course. He then goes home thinking its nothing more than a love bite. He starts changing and getting special powers like Peter Parker. He starts getting wrapped up in the whole high school dramedy game competing for the attention and popularity, meanwhile killing off members of the crew of kids who picked on him. Then throw back in the mix the super cute female nerd friend who has had a crush on him the whole time but sees the changes and strives to find out what has happened and to win his affection...and I can go on and on.

What do you think?

Haha, it sounds like you just wrote a goth version of Spider-Man. lol! No offense, of course.

Hm. If you want villainous vamps, you could always go the route of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. You know, for the most part, they're fairly normal people, but sooner or later, instinct takes over and they become killing machines. It's even better if you fully go with the split-personality, i.e., they're aware that they're vampires, but when they're not under the influence of bloodlust, they have no special powers or weaknesses, and they're kind and compassionate people, and thus regret and dread their "transformation". Might be a little too similar to one's classic interpretation of a werewolf, though, so take it as you will.

Additionally, you could reinvent the stereotype, so to speak. This might work for both protagonists and antagonists, if done right. Say, for example, that at first, the vampire only hungers once in a while. A very specific craving, maybe once a week. Almost no powers at first, they're essentially normal people. Then, as they start growing in power, they start craving more and more. Starts off once a week, then it's up to a couple times, then once a day, three times a day, etc. etc., until they degenerate into, essentially, superpowered monsters who need to feed almost constantly because they're addicted to blood. Eventually, they might even be unable to keep themselves alive simply because they can't feed enough, and they die from lack of blood even though they feed non-stop.
Actually, that sounds kinda cool to me. You better use it before I take it. ;)

Blackmoon
Haha, it sounds like you just wrote a goth version of Spider-Man. lol! No offense, of course.

well I did reference Peter Parker in the synopsis! ;)

Understand the whole story is dependant that it has the feel of a John Hughes movie.

I added onto and redid some vampire "lore" for my vampire comic. I can't give away all the details now (since my comic is still in it's infancy) but ... just go through, look at some of the vampire myths and then rethink them. Add some more fantasy or more reality to it. I'm not a good story-teller but I am pretty proud of myself for the changes I added.

Vampires are only lame if you don't put any thought into them. Otherwise they can be really interesting characters.

Vampires and vampirism is a mechanic. As a storyteller, the way to make them unlame comes in the reasoning for using the mechanic and the way you use it. I think a common mistake when using the vampire is not having a good foundation or reason for it aside from "oo, vampires are cool!"

Generally speaking most people who use it tend to adapt the lore of the vampire to suit their own needs. I've personally done this extensively in Shifters, and the very reason for their existence is a key plot point, although vampires are a symptom rather than the result of the problem at hand. Vampirism is usually symbolic of several things, and often times it is most effectively used as a symbol. One should remember however that the defining aspect of a character shouldn't be their being a vampire. Their being a vampire should only be a facet of the character. If you took the vampire away, the character should still be a person. Its just a layer of complexity and should always serve a purpose.

If you are using the vampire as antagonist (monsterous vampire/animalistic) the story is likely going to be more about the victims as protagonists, because that's who your audience is going to tend to identify with. The story takes on a distinctly more horror bent with that angle, and tends to lend itself more to the original roots of vampire mythology where the vampire was truly a monster to be feared, and once you were one of them, you ceased to be at all human and became an animal, feeding on your loved ones to sustain an unnatural existence.

If your vampire is a protagonist, there are a few different paths they can take, but almost all of them involve inner conflict regarding their nature. If they were 'infected' or 'turned' they might be constantly struggling against their new existence, but you have to always take into consideration the person they were before they became a vampire. If a vampire was 'born' the way they are, it could be a metaphor for racism, or other issues of "outsider" trying to fit in, perhaps its a human fitting into a vampire society, it all really depends on what sort of story you are trying to tell.

Ultimately, the cliche-ness of any story tends to be in the hands of the author. How much they think things through will have a big impact on if it turns out cliche or not.

Well, thanks guys. I think I've got my ideas, now to think up believable antagonists...

Dirk Zephyrs
Dropbears, mate. Dropbears.

I'm an avid Pratchett fan.

Yeah, I've told the dropbear tales to many a gullible townie and tourist.
(Specially on camping trips...then in the middle of the night you go and crash their tent in, etc.)
Good fun...

warning: penis has been recommended for mature audiences:

So for years, I've had the line "Bloods not the only thing they suck." to use for something involving vampires. I finally used it in penis a few months ago, as the subtitle for my story, "vampires," I would assume this is all the pages from the story. Enjoy.

marine, your pen is of +5 victory.

I've learned something in my contemporary fiction class... If it has sexual tension, it's good. So I'm starting it with sex. And that should be enough to hook my readers, regardless of how much the story actually sucks.

No problem, if it really really really sucks, rumor has it that it becomes good. Or so the internet and disco have taught us.

Here's a blunt tip:
Psychological horror + vampires = happy times!

And that's my incredibly deep advice.


Boy this is making me look like a retarded vampire author.

Also homosexual vampires are very popular. Anne Rice made a career on it!

marine
Also homosexual vampires are very popular. Anne Rice made a career on it!

How about five homosexuals which go to different hetero homes to redecorate and redesign their lives...but their vampires?

The problem with vampire stories is not just the characterization, but also the mechanic. Sure if your vampires are wooden and cliche characters you're going to have a hard time making the story good, but even if you have great characters you can fail. Nine attempts out of ten have lame, repititious stories. If it's well-written, you can succeed, but it's difficult. No one wants to read about the lone vampire on the hill that is the source of the superstitious villager's woes, how he gets met by a foreigner who at first doesn't understand his nature, and ends with the vampire perishing in the sun. No one wants that, because they can read Dracula, they can watch Nosferatu, they can watch any of the dozens of Dracula movies made, no matter how loosely based on the original story, they can read dozens and dozens of books and comics that have a similar plot line, the list goes on! It doesn't matter how well you write the story, the story's been done to death and nobody cares anymore.

If you want to tell a vampire story the most important thing -- more important than the characters even -- is that the plot line is original, or at least has original touches. It can be the story of Dracula, but what if vampirism is a gift given to worshippers of Cthulhu? There's a concept that's not been done. Would it work? Depends on how you write it, but it would probably interest at least some people. It's interesting because it can shape the nature of vampirism, the direction of the story, and the roles of both the protagonists and antagonists in new ways that have not been explored before.

That's the element that needs to be there fore vampires to work in a story. The unexplored territory. And lets face it, a lot of blood-sucker territory has been explored, and a lot of it has been explored more than once. Avoid the cliche characters, twist the cliche plots, and breathe life into the ancient undead blood-suckers.

Finding the innovation in a tired genre isn't that easy. It's not impossible to find an original angle... Like vampirism being a gift of Cthonic gods... But it's hard to find an original angle which strikes a chord amongst the masses. For example, the above idea may be way too out there, "trying too hard."

Vampire stories that had an original angle, that was also at once familiar with readers - those are the ones that worked. For example... Lost Boys the movie, vampires + delinquent teen gangbanging conflict = win. Or Fright Night, vampires + Rear Window + teen fighting suave Don Juan for GF = win. You have to get the right chemistry.

I just pulled the cthulhu thing out my rear. It may be out there, but trying too hard comes down to how good of a writer you are. The Cthulhu mythos has plenty of room for vampires, it's just a portmanteau of genres. Doesn't make it automatically good or bad; that comes down to the quality of writing. But it is certainly harder to make something good from tired cliches or impossible/nonsensical combinations than a clever and accessible concept.

Personally I hated Lost Boys and Fright Night; they're goofy and I like my vampires dark and sinister. While matching an original angle with something familiar to readers may potentially raise the potential audience, it could also prove to be tepid. Finding that original angle that appeals to the masses IS difficult, but not impossible. But finding an angle that may not appeal to everyone but captures your imagination as a writer has the potential for greatness that can transcend the normal interests of the masses.

Or you produce a comic that a small number of people get and never finds much of an audience. It's a difficult game.

Try put more of the sex and the violence. Even if its pointless and brainless.

Well, one thing my comic is going to discuss is family and friends and what happens to them when you become a vampire. Which, considering my little experience in reading Anne Rice or Whoisit What'shisface, I've not seen in vampire flicks. Meaning that suddenly you'd have to give up your girlfriend, leave her behind you. Give your mother a final phone call. Leave all your aspirations and wants behind.

So tell me, you think that's a good base theme? Or has it been done before (If so, I'd like to know by who so's I can read it.)

Also, it has lesbians.

Upping the sex and violence for the cliche vampires was already tried by Laurell K Hamilton, and it's crashing down around her. Rice's vampires are referred to in the works of other vampire novelists as the reason why vampires are assholes. I think that has a lot to say about the genre, because it's like any group of people who mindlessly adhere to a stereotype in order to belong. Those people are annoying as hell, because they're empty. They've got nothing new to say, and they even grate on the nerves of other empty, mindless people. Avoid the Rice vampires. They're stereotypes. If there was a racial profiling for vampires, it would be Louis DuPoint DuLac. The weepy, wannabe human wandering ghostly and alone through the graveyard of the world...even Rice had to make fun of Louis in her later work.

If you're going to rip off a vampire characterization, I'd suggest Pee Wee Herman's character in Buffy. ;)

Another thought or perspective...
Vampires are monsters because they are 'other,' they have a different experience, a different perspective. One of the interesting things about Dracula, the novel, is you get an insight into the vampire's methods, but pretty much only through the Doctor and whatever else you can deduce. There's more going on than is often discussed, because it's not put there overtly, it's more like a mystery novel in many ways.
...and with that, what is it that makes a vampire 'other?' How does being alive for possibly hundreds of years change your perspective on things, or only being out at night, or any of the other shifts that happens when one becomes a vampire? One of the ways in which vampire stuff seems to fall flat is that they aren't thought through far enough, and with that, you only get a stereotype rather than an actual character. Vampires can potentially live forever, yet often seem to get caught up in killing the protagonist before a particular sunup 'cause that's when the story takes place. Unless there's clear reasons for doing so, which make sense, it'll fall flat. You may be able to finesse it using style over substance, but... that may not work so well.
One example that comes to mind is the movie 'Near Dark,' in which the leader of a band of vampires, played by Lance Henriksen, runs the group in a pretty savage manner, and is proud of having survived as a vampire, longer than anyone else in the group, since the civil war. Yet, when one of the group is killed by a human, instead of hiding or regrouping, he goes for vengeance, thus going against what he had previously put forth as his strategy or philosophy for the previous part of the film. It seems to work well enough for alot of people, in that you get the big finish for the movie, but as far as characterization and plot goes, the vampire behaves seemingly far too... human.
To sum up, think it through. (That's... what a vampire would do.)

As far as how the family and friends would react, usually the person recently turned seems to just disappear, so as not to have to field such questions or issues. At least, that's what I remember from such movies. Kinda like a cult - "they wouldn't understand, so don't even try. You're undead, but... dead to them." Approaching it from that angle, though, could be very interesting.
I'm also reminded of the novel 'Bloodsucking Fiends: A Love Story' by Christopher Moore, but I don't know how much that would apply here. Good, funny story, though.

Hope this helps...