So we got the big 3 video game consoles out there (Xbox, PS3 and the Wii) that all push lots of polygons around. Pretty tough competition, I bet...

I got his idea at work to create a 2D gaming console that would be cheap and wouldn't come close to competing with the big three. Rather it would push 2D gaming instead by having the ability to push tens of thousands of high def sprites and stuff. Could be perfect for stuff such as platformers, puzzles, and shooter type games. Heck... even First Person Shooters could show up... Duke Nukem 3D is actually a 2.5D game which uses sprites rather than polygons for its environment. And Doom as well...

heh... I don't have the technical knowhow to create such a thing, but if someone did make one how well do you think it would do compared to the other consoles which try to be everything?

Years ago, I ran across those little booths where they sell usually run-of-the-mill toys and things at a mall. On a huge TV screen on both sides was a DDR-like game but with what sounded like stock music, as opposed to actual mixes, but the other one had those 30-in-1 games. Most of them were, y'know, well-known games with edited titles to fullfill the actual 30 game obligation.

But the real star of the show each time I passed it was the original Super Mario Brothers. Once was a huge crowd, the other, just passerby folk seeing up their nostalgia.

But this is all off-topic.

I'd love to see a machine like that. Bigger isn't always better. They could make a game so realistic that I can see the mole on Duke's right cheek, but it wouldn't impress me much. A glorified, high-resolution game done in retro Doom-style would be right up my alley. Would be cool to see someone bring Doom 3 to that kinda thing, just for kicks. 'sides, I can't run much big games on my PC anyway, lol. xD

It probably could. It'd be the underdog, and brutal to sell unless marketed right, I figure.

I like the idea of a platform dedicated to the more retro-type games. The major thing that stands in its way is the fact that current consoles and devices, which most video game fans already own, can properly do the 2D games we're talking about. It would only make sense if $250-$300 is too high a price for a large amount of people, who also have a taste for classic-style games.

But yeah, I'd love it if there was something like a Game Boy Advance that cost about $30 and had a wide array of affordable 2D available for it.

Hawk
But yeah, I'd love it if there was something like a Game Boy Advance that cost about $30 and had a wide array of affordable 2D available for it.

That'd be nice... if only high res color LCD screens were that cheap. :(

I was thinking something like the traditional consoles you plug into the TV... as small as a normal CD drive (that uses DVDs) and probably costing a bit more than that (not sure how much the game electronics would cost, but I bet the drive itself would be $50 or so).

Maybe a CD drive would be better. 2D games don't have to be so large, right? :)

It's really kinda sad how these chinese companies producing "video game systems" seem to be only concentrating on imitating the major players of the industry. Even though their "Vii" system (or Zone number... or whatever they're calling it now) seems to be a mere imitation, that little machine could have some potential as a cheap quality alternative. But I guess those companies are only interested in making quick easy cash instead of trying to create an innovative niche for themselves...

Don't they already have that kinda stuff? At Target, there's usually those Buck Hunting games which have a plastic gun one can attach to the TV to play the same game at the arcade. A Golf Tour one too, of the sort, or something. Not counting the Intellivision compilation stuff too, or Coleco, whathaveyou.

Well, there's always the Indie game scene to provide that kind of stuff. Just homebrew a console of one's own doing, and import one's own games. I'd probably put all my hacks in there.

Well, those devices with the preloaded games in them don't give you much choice... You have to buy a bunch of games along with the device and you can't change them for other games when you want to. So when you buy those prebuilt TV connection games you're pretty much stuck with what you get.

Homebrew is nice... until you realize you have to buy those consoles for your homebrew and many of those are rare. And if you're aiming to use a current console for your homebrew you still have to buy the console first.

The idea is to create a console in the same vein as the major consoles out there, but have them dedicated to 2D gaming. I'd like such a console to be the low cost gaming alternative to the $150 to $300 consoles out there that's also friendly to the homebrew environment (unlike the Pandora which is a $500 handheld... YIKES!!!) and you would be able to buy games for them that don't cost as much as the 3D games out there.

*sigh* I dream too much...

2D doesn't automatically make a game cheap. You take a game like Odin Sphere... you think that would cost less to make than a typical 3D game? Often, a beautiful 2D game with lots of sprites takes up more disc space than a 3D game. Look at Street Fighter 3 or Mark Of The Wolves.

3D consoles may be "expensive" but the real cost of gaming is in the games. You can't make the good 2D games cheaper than current 3D games, so you have to make your 2D console significantly cheaper to justify having a niche library selection.

Even if you just want to sell retro games, it's not going to make it cheaper. People expect you to spice up the retro game with up-to-date graphics and sound. Otherwise why buy yours, they can just dl the ancient originals in an emulator on their PC.

Now I'm interested... what makes sprite based games more expensive to produce compared to 3D titles? I guess I'm in the dark when it comes to game production...

Street Fighter III, and Mark of the Wolves, were Capcom and SNK's defining moments, man. :D It doesn't get any better than that up until CvS2. I'm STILL wondering when a sequel's gonna get made to the latter-- where's my Joe Higashi?

Well, for starts, the detail into the sprites - from top to bottom, I figure, right? Details, the music involved, and what to get into it. But that's just spriting, I guess, right?

I agree with mlai, 2D games put into the video game market wouldn't necessarily be cheaper. 2D sprites themselves wouldn't be the expensive part, you're right, but as mlai said, people expect a certain kind of production value for games today. In other words, if you were to take a retro-styled game developed exactly how it was back in the day, I have a feeling it wouldn't gather that much attention unfortunately.

And besides, those 2D styled games are the trend for a lot of indie developers. I play Super Meat Boy which is 2D, and I know that the new indie game, Terraria is also 2D.

Not to mention every flash game out there is 2D. Not trying to shoot down your idea or anything though; I probably would check out a console that specializes in 2D games. But it just wouldn't survive into today's market of gamers eagerly waiting their next Call of Duty rendition.

Also why bother when pc's, phone and modern consoles can all run 2D games just fine?

Lonnehart

Hawk
But yeah, I'd love it if there was something like a Game Boy Advance that cost about $30 and had a wide array of affordable 2D available for it.

That'd be nice... if only high res color LCD screens were that cheap. :(

I was thinking something like the traditional consoles you plug into the TV... as small as a normal CD drive (that uses DVDs) and probably costing a bit more than that (not sure how much the game electronics would cost, but I bet the drive itself would be $50 or so).

LCD screens are getting cheaper and cheaper to make. Maybe it doesn't need to be hi-res?

I actually think going portable is the only way a dedicated 2D gaming device would stand a chance... as others have stated, people already have their PC and consoles for 2D indie games. But I imagine if the portable had its SDK put out freely, if it was cheap, and all its game storage was handled by an SD card instead of cartridges, it would be popular among indie developers and homebrew fans. But even then, not widely popular, and probably not even enough to warrant designing, building, and selling such a device. That's why indie devs and homebrew fans just focus on using or circumventing the existing devices.

But it's fun to dream. I created an arcade-like 2D game and I always wanted to run it on something besides my PC. I'm working on getting it to run on an arcade machine in my basement.

The portable market is already a lost cause. It's impossible to make an impact in that market unless you have a lot of money to throw around in R&D and marketing. I don't think a system that takes things a step back would really be able to compete with what's already out there, and the same basic problems exist where current systems can do 2D just as well as a stripped down handhelp dedicated to that presentation style.

It also doesn't help that hardware these days isn't geared towards 2D presentation. To build a system that handles sprites the way you're talking about, you already need to rely on the same kind of hardware that's used for the 3D systems. A scaled down 3D system could probably handle it, but with the way the market works today, you're still going to have developers who forego the 2D aspects to try to create 3D games on your basic framework.

As has been mentioned before, creating a high end 2D game isn't necessarily cheaper than making a high end 3D game. The pogramming isn't necessarily more or less complex and the artwork certainly isn't less involved. It's like the difference between 2D and 3D animation. 2D looks simpler, but is more labor intensive due to the nature of the medium. Also, in 3D games, it's the audio and 2D elements (textures, FMVs) which take up the most space. The actual 3D geometry and coding takes up very little. Relying on highly detailed and fully animated sprites would actually make your games bigger and more expensive to create.

I guess the best thing would be to just create the thing, sell it for cheap, give out the SDK for free, then watch as a community forms around the system with people making/buying/selling the games to each other. :)

Yes, it's always fun to dream about things... no matter how unlikely it is that such a situation would occur... :)

Honestly, I don't know if it'd do well per se, but I know someone like me who likes the older type of games (or generally anything 2D) better. Merely because I'm not a hardcore gamer anymore, but merely a casual player, and I really enjoy pixel art (specifically well done ones from video games). But I think anybody who enjoys that sort of thing would love to pick it up, but it wouldn't sell as good as the high-def sorts of things, no.