If there's a character who hints at an interesting backstory, or if there's some peculiar-to-the-setting weirdness going on, how long will you read without an explanation? Or do you need one at all? Does it make a difference how the characters respond to said mystery?
This question inspired by my having spent the last week following two comics with very intricate settings and backstories, but not a lot of detailing of those in the comic. I get the feeling that the setting in one will come clearer as the story progresses, but I'm interested to note just how little difference not having a lot of backstory makes in the other. (Well, also inspired by my trying to balance "keep a manageable number of mysteries" with "keep the story moving" in something I'm writing. But that's beside the point. :P )
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How long are you willing to read, waiting for explanations?
CateranLlama
at 10:26AM, Oct. 9, 2008
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
mattchee
at 10:57AM, Oct. 9, 2008
A lot of my characters have an ample amount of back story, which sometimes gets referenced, sometimes not. I'd say about half of my characters started with a decent back story, and the other half are being developed within the story. An interesting mix.
I do some expository stuff, if I feel it helps the story. But I also try and to it in a way that it tells more than just "the facts." IE - in my comic there is some expository dialog about John John being jealous of Jefe for various reasons for the last 15 or so years-- explaining the tension between the two brothers. Okay, but you hear this from fellow Mastors, NOT John John himself. So really, its more of a description of of the POV of certain characters. So while, yeah, it explains the tension, it also is explaining other things too.
Other times, I'll hint at a back story, because its there, but never really get into it. For example, when we're first introduced to Matt, on a couple of occasions we hear that he did something in the past that was less than admirable. But it never really gets explained what. My reasoning is this: He DOES have a back story, but the issue in question will be dealt with later. Why mention it now? Because he did something bad, both Jefe and the Phantom Lord are aware of it. If Jefe and PL DIDN'T acknowledge it now, then, however far down the line, when we do deal with it, the audience might wonder why, if they knew he did this bad thing, did they invite him to be a Mastor without so much as mentioning it. Basically, since I know about it ahead of time, I owe it to continuity to acknowledge it where it should be acknowledged.
As far as settings... I'm horrible with settings.... ugh.... Working on that...
I do some expository stuff, if I feel it helps the story. But I also try and to it in a way that it tells more than just "the facts." IE - in my comic there is some expository dialog about John John being jealous of Jefe for various reasons for the last 15 or so years-- explaining the tension between the two brothers. Okay, but you hear this from fellow Mastors, NOT John John himself. So really, its more of a description of of the POV of certain characters. So while, yeah, it explains the tension, it also is explaining other things too.
Other times, I'll hint at a back story, because its there, but never really get into it. For example, when we're first introduced to Matt, on a couple of occasions we hear that he did something in the past that was less than admirable. But it never really gets explained what. My reasoning is this: He DOES have a back story, but the issue in question will be dealt with later. Why mention it now? Because he did something bad, both Jefe and the Phantom Lord are aware of it. If Jefe and PL DIDN'T acknowledge it now, then, however far down the line, when we do deal with it, the audience might wonder why, if they knew he did this bad thing, did they invite him to be a Mastor without so much as mentioning it. Basically, since I know about it ahead of time, I owe it to continuity to acknowledge it where it should be acknowledged.
As far as settings... I'm horrible with settings.... ugh.... Working on that...
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:55PM
NickGuy
at 12:09PM, Oct. 9, 2008
well... it all depends on how its written. If theres nothing going ont o distract me from the fact that hero guy has a dark secret, then ill be like hey wtf tell me already. otherwise i can wait.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:15PM
dueeast
at 1:34PM, Oct. 9, 2008
It's good to give some initial backstory for your main character. And when you introduce new characters, it helps to have some info on them to show why you're bringing them in. And give enough backstory to make them interesting but you don't have to give away too much. Less is more in most cases.
It's okay to wait a chapter/issue or two before coming back to a character but you don't want to wait too long or people will forget/not care about that character. At the same time, the reason you bring them back should be relevant and tie-in with whatever backstory you've already built.
That's my 2 cents anyway... :)
It's okay to wait a chapter/issue or two before coming back to a character but you don't want to wait too long or people will forget/not care about that character. At the same time, the reason you bring them back should be relevant and tie-in with whatever backstory you've already built.
That's my 2 cents anyway... :)
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:18PM
DAJB
at 2:14PM, Oct. 9, 2008
Most of my characters have detailed and broadly relevant back-stories which I constructed before starting to write the comic. A few of these are revealed through flashback sequences spread out throughout the story. I don't think anyone's stopped reading because they got tired of waiting for a particular character's back-story to be revealed.
As a reader, I'm happy to keep reading without the full explanation, provided I still believe there is an explanation and that it will be revealed eventually!
A good comparison would be Lost. In Season 1, it didn't matter that the viewer didn't know what the island was or why all the strange phenomena were happening. Not knowing and trying to guess was part of the show's appeal. At some point early in Season 2, however, it became apparent that the writers themselves didn't know the answer. They were making it up as they went along and there was no explanation that could possibly explain everything they'd asked the audience to buy into. At that point the series startd to become pretty tedious.
As a reader, I'm happy to keep reading without the full explanation, provided I still believe there is an explanation and that it will be revealed eventually!
A good comparison would be Lost. In Season 1, it didn't matter that the viewer didn't know what the island was or why all the strange phenomena were happening. Not knowing and trying to guess was part of the show's appeal. At some point early in Season 2, however, it became apparent that the writers themselves didn't know the answer. They were making it up as they went along and there was no explanation that could possibly explain everything they'd asked the audience to buy into. At that point the series startd to become pretty tedious.
[..]
A WW2 fighter pilot, a First Century warrior queen and a prehistoric shaman. Oh, and their tailor. These are not your common-or-garden heroes! [..]
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:03PM
Steely Gaze
at 5:13PM, Oct. 9, 2008
I'll keep reading so long as the author keeps entertaining me. If those mysteries aren't integral to the main plot, or it doesn't feel like the author is trying to over-exploit some strange and cloudy backstory, then I'm good to go. If they keep popping up to mention so-and-so's mysterious past, then I start to get tired if there isn't some kind of resolution.
Worse still, is when an author keeps trying to exploit that useless mystery long after the explanation was given.
I have a lot of backstory for my characters, although it hasn't been delved in too deeply as of yet. Actually, working on doling out plot points is something I'm learning to deal with.
And this is what I call "Lost Syndrome". Any struggling fantasy or sci-fi writer can learn to be much better by avoiding the mistakes made by that show. ;)
Worse still, is when an author keeps trying to exploit that useless mystery long after the explanation was given.
I have a lot of backstory for my characters, although it hasn't been delved in too deeply as of yet. Actually, working on doling out plot points is something I'm learning to deal with.
DAJB
A good comparison would be Lost. In Season 1, it didn't matter that the viewer didn't know what the island was or why all the strange phenomena were happening. Not knowing and trying to guess was part of the show's appeal. At some point early in Season 2, however, it became apparent that the writers themselves didn't know the answer. They were making it up as they went along and there was no explanation that could possibly explain everything they'd asked the audience to buy into. At that point the series startd to become pretty tedious.
And this is what I call "Lost Syndrome". Any struggling fantasy or sci-fi writer can learn to be much better by avoiding the mistakes made by that show. ;)
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last edited on July 14, 2011 3:58PM
usedbooks
at 5:24PM, Oct. 9, 2008
I love a good mystery. I'll wait for as long as it takes. If it takes a REALLY long time for a reveal, I might forget -- but usually I don't. The real risk isn't so much forgetfulness as a loss of interest/importance. If you just present "this guy has a mysterious past" and every now and then remind readers of that, it becomes rather ho-hum. Yeah, so there's some big deal in his past. I don't know it. Not knowing eventually can become not caring.
The trick to get around the loss of interest but still hold back "the reveal" is to build on it. Reveal points of interest slowly, parts of the big picture. I like things that way, and that's the way I write. Slowly reveal hints that build up until things have essentially been completely "revealed" but just need the final confirmation. I also like to do patchwork flashbacks. Scenes from different characters' points of view. You get pieces of people's pasts until you can put together a full picture. In the meantime (before the "reveal" ), the mystery becomes more intriguing as the new pieces come to light. (It also assures the readers that there is an explanation that eventually will be known.)
It's okay with me if things are simply suggested and never actually revealed, but it's good to make the important points known before the end of the story. If you write a fluid story with many arcs (like a series), as one mystery is being revealed, you can introduce (or draw attention to) others. Then the story never becomes stale and the intrigue is never removed, but you don't leave people hanging/waiting. If you are writing a self-contained story (similar to a movie or novel) you can hint/suggest an aspect (that isn't integral to reveal for this plot) of a character without really getting into it, and then turn that story into your next project.
The trick to get around the loss of interest but still hold back "the reveal" is to build on it. Reveal points of interest slowly, parts of the big picture. I like things that way, and that's the way I write. Slowly reveal hints that build up until things have essentially been completely "revealed" but just need the final confirmation. I also like to do patchwork flashbacks. Scenes from different characters' points of view. You get pieces of people's pasts until you can put together a full picture. In the meantime (before the "reveal" ), the mystery becomes more intriguing as the new pieces come to light. (It also assures the readers that there is an explanation that eventually will be known.)
It's okay with me if things are simply suggested and never actually revealed, but it's good to make the important points known before the end of the story. If you write a fluid story with many arcs (like a series), as one mystery is being revealed, you can introduce (or draw attention to) others. Then the story never becomes stale and the intrigue is never removed, but you don't leave people hanging/waiting. If you are writing a self-contained story (similar to a movie or novel) you can hint/suggest an aspect (that isn't integral to reveal for this plot) of a character without really getting into it, and then turn that story into your next project.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:37PM
mlai
at 5:43PM, Oct. 9, 2008
Some readers liken my 2 comics to Lost, but I've never watched that show (because I missed the first episodes, and then I read bad things about it on TV Guide).
Unlike Lost, I do have a grasp on all the answers. So I won't make its mistake. The readers have completely put up with my total lack of reveals so far (2 stories currently at 80+ pages and 110+ pages), so I guess ppl can put up with a lot as long as they can tell you're not dicking them around.
However, ppl did start getting impatient about the character origins, because they realized that I assume they're as knowledgeable as I am about the period history/trivia, which means I was never going to tell them anything. The general sentiment was prolly "WTF, we ain't gonna do all the research you've done. Just tell us!" So I made a detailed Cast page.
Unlike Lost, I do have a grasp on all the answers. So I won't make its mistake. The readers have completely put up with my total lack of reveals so far (2 stories currently at 80+ pages and 110+ pages), so I guess ppl can put up with a lot as long as they can tell you're not dicking them around.
However, ppl did start getting impatient about the character origins, because they realized that I assume they're as knowledgeable as I am about the period history/trivia, which means I was never going to tell them anything. The general sentiment was prolly "WTF, we ain't gonna do all the research you've done. Just tell us!" So I made a detailed Cast page.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:06PM
CZweig
at 1:37PM, Oct. 10, 2008
For me it's a double-edged sword. When I read a comic, I like not having to sit through infodumps introducing me to the world and the characters, I like getting to know bits and pieces of the backstory at a time. For me, a good story-driven comic should read like real life: everybody has things in their past that have shaped and molded their personality. People don't sit around saying things like "well as you know, my history up until now has been...". You get to know things about them the longer you know them. And some of my favourite stories rely on this method of storytelling, revealing little bits about people and events that move the story to a conclusion.
At the same time, I sort of cringe every time the "mysterious past" angle is brought up. Not everyone has a past that's necessarily worthy of "mysteriousness", and it sometimes seems like a vice people rely on for some easy character development. And if the mysteriousness is drawn out for too long, hinting and toying at this idea of some big, shocking thing, it better be worth the wait for me. If I read through twenty chapters of hinting at some "mysterious past" and it ends up being something completely cliche like "my parents died in a car crash when I was little", I feel like "... yeah? And?".
The mysterious past is a difficult thing to master in my opinion ^^; I absolutely love mysteries, but if it builds up to something completely anti-climactic, I'll usually end up putting the book down or closing the browser window.
At the same time, I sort of cringe every time the "mysterious past" angle is brought up. Not everyone has a past that's necessarily worthy of "mysteriousness", and it sometimes seems like a vice people rely on for some easy character development. And if the mysteriousness is drawn out for too long, hinting and toying at this idea of some big, shocking thing, it better be worth the wait for me. If I read through twenty chapters of hinting at some "mysterious past" and it ends up being something completely cliche like "my parents died in a car crash when I was little", I feel like "... yeah? And?".
The mysterious past is a difficult thing to master in my opinion ^^; I absolutely love mysteries, but if it builds up to something completely anti-climactic, I'll usually end up putting the book down or closing the browser window.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:02PM
kyupol
at 2:44AM, Oct. 11, 2008
CateranLlama
If there's a character who hints at an interesting backstory, or if there's some peculiar-to-the-setting weirdness going on, how long will you read without an explanation? Or do you need one at all? Does it make a difference how the characters respond to said mystery?
This question inspired by my having spent the last week following two comics with very intricate settings and backstories, but not a lot of detailing of those in the comic. I get the feeling that the setting in one will come clearer as the story progresses, but I'm interested to note just how little difference not having a lot of backstory makes in the other. (Well, also inspired by my trying to balance "keep a manageable number of mysteries" with "keep the story moving" in something I'm writing. But that's beside the point. :P )
It depends on alot of factors.
As long as it gets my interest, I wouldnt mind reading through a back story of some sort.
However I think that its better to put backstories as a separate comic. Thats what I do if I like a character and plan to focus more on him/her without interrupting the regular flow of the story.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:26PM
ttyler
at 6:01AM, Oct. 11, 2008
As long as I dig the characters, art and story, I can wait a good while. Engine is planned for 400+ pages, and, was really never meant to be read one page at a time, but as a whole in one sitting......so I don't feel the need to rush anything, since In my mind, I still have 300+ pages to tell the story right, and come to a planned end.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:34PM
patrickdevine
at 11:59AM, Oct. 11, 2008
I guess it depends on how interesting the comic is without knowing some sort of relevant backstory. If I'm reading a comic and doesn't make any sense and I'm promised that it will all make about five pages later I'll probably lose interest before then.
The promise of a big reveal later on can add to a good story but it really shouldn't be the main focus.
The promise of a big reveal later on can add to a good story but it really shouldn't be the main focus.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 2:41PM
JustNoPoint
at 5:50PM, Oct. 11, 2008
I'm going to use Mlai's Fight as an example. The whole aspect of the comic is one big mystery. Characters from different times/dimensions/worlds have all been thrown together for an unknown reason by an unknown force. And to top it all off, none of the characters even know who they are or even realize what has happened since they have no memory of a life prior to this.
Now "normally" it would be pretty frustrating to not be getting explanations for all of this. And most shows would probably use this as the focus of the story and for their "season finales"... So what makes it work?
It's pushed aside fairly quickly. If the comic doesn't make a big deal out of it then it's not a priority mystery in the minds of the readers.
Instead it focuses on the characters and their will to survive and interact with each other under the circumstances. It's not about who they are, or where they came from...
It's about who they are now and the trials/tribulations they are facing. So it's easy not to wonder and get upset over the other details that are not even being hinted at being explained much.
That's also how I write my own stories. If I know it will be a LONG time before a reveal I try not to just keep stringing people along. I push that mystery to the back and try to make things that will make people not worry or even to an extent forget about it.
When the time comes for the reveal it makes it that much sweeter. You get nice build up (for new readers and for those that have forgotten) and all the people that may actually remember or read through and see the whole story will really jump as it all ties together.
OMG he so hinted at that in issue 4!
Now "normally" it would be pretty frustrating to not be getting explanations for all of this. And most shows would probably use this as the focus of the story and for their "season finales"... So what makes it work?
It's pushed aside fairly quickly. If the comic doesn't make a big deal out of it then it's not a priority mystery in the minds of the readers.
Instead it focuses on the characters and their will to survive and interact with each other under the circumstances. It's not about who they are, or where they came from...
It's about who they are now and the trials/tribulations they are facing. So it's easy not to wonder and get upset over the other details that are not even being hinted at being explained much.
That's also how I write my own stories. If I know it will be a LONG time before a reveal I try not to just keep stringing people along. I push that mystery to the back and try to make things that will make people not worry or even to an extent forget about it.
When the time comes for the reveal it makes it that much sweeter. You get nice build up (for new readers and for those that have forgotten) and all the people that may actually remember or read through and see the whole story will really jump as it all ties together.
OMG he so hinted at that in issue 4!
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last edited on July 14, 2011 1:12PM
JillyFoo
at 10:04AM, Oct. 12, 2008
I won't be coming back for every single update unless it's captivating, BUT once I'm interested in a webcomic I won't leave it.
It may be a month, six months, or years but I'll always be back to catch up. It's a great way to get a nice archive to read and get a better grasp at the mystery/plot/exclamations.
As long as it's online I'll be back eventually.
It may be a month, six months, or years but I'll always be back to catch up. It's a great way to get a nice archive to read and get a better grasp at the mystery/plot/exclamations.
As long as it's online I'll be back eventually.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:08PM
highspeedcomics
at 11:38AM, Oct. 15, 2008
I was actually going to use Lost as an example. I watched all of season 1, but when they continued to introduce more questions without answering any previous ones, it got to the point where I didn't really care.
If there are hints along the way to keep the audience guessing or interested, then that is good. If it's just "Hey, it's mysterious...let's move on to the next thing!" then count me out.
If there are hints along the way to keep the audience guessing or interested, then that is good. If it's just "Hey, it's mysterious...let's move on to the next thing!" then count me out.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:48PM
harkovast
at 12:37PM, Oct. 24, 2008
This question is like how long is a piece of string.
It just depends on how interesting things are.
Does it seem confusing and meaningless, or does it seem intriguing?
Does it give a sense that answers are coming or does it leave you feeling it's going nowhere?
There isn't a magic number really.
It just depends on how interesting things are.
Does it seem confusing and meaningless, or does it seem intriguing?
Does it give a sense that answers are coming or does it leave you feeling it's going nowhere?
There isn't a magic number really.
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last edited on July 14, 2011 12:42PM
Peipei
at 2:46PM, Oct. 24, 2008
I tend to have subtle and obvious hints for my character's backgrounds. I even had to make a separate new comic for a character because her back story is just too big and there are too many unanswered questions xD. But for the most part, most of the characters in my comics have huge back stories, and probably less than 40% of them will even be mentioned in the story xD.
I like to be hit with surprises, although hinting at a character's past/background is useful in telling us more about the character right away. I'm willing to wait as long as the story has got me drawn in. I tend to like reading comics with multi-character scenarios in them, like UsedBooks for example. I'm addicted to her story because there is always something going on that is interesting, keeping me coming back for more :p.
I like to be hit with surprises, although hinting at a character's past/background is useful in telling us more about the character right away. I'm willing to wait as long as the story has got me drawn in. I tend to like reading comics with multi-character scenarios in them, like UsedBooks for example. I'm addicted to her story because there is always something going on that is interesting, keeping me coming back for more :p.
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:41PM
Tacster002
at 7:37AM, Nov. 11, 2008
I love mystery, it's a main thing that draws me into a comic. I admit if it takes FOREVER to get to the explanation, I might get a little annoyed, but it won't stop me from reading. if a backstory is huge and takes walls of text to explain, then that'll make me just as annoyed, really!
my webcomic leaves everything open to the interpretation of the reader, so I'm gonna hope people will tolerate that...I'm pretty excited to see weird theories pop up, actually XD;
my webcomic leaves everything open to the interpretation of the reader, so I'm gonna hope people will tolerate that...I'm pretty excited to see weird theories pop up, actually XD;
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:06PM
ipokino
at 1:38PM, Nov. 14, 2008
Speaking as one who actually has a fairly intricate plot and a fair number of twisties--it never occured to me that people might stop reading because of this. Eww. I designed Robot Wars as a short comicbook series. Every 24 pages is an Issue (Chapter) with a double sized Issue thrown in every five issues to allow me to expound on a particular bit of backstory and to make up a nice sized graphic novel. I guess I'm still stuck in the "Comic Book" mindset. It is hard to break your thoughts into short, one page segments.
I recently re-read the whole series (in paper form) one Issue right after another, and found it to be very satisfactory in that form. I hope readers will stay with the story because it is not designed to keep anyone hanging long. Also, I have followed Marvel/DC Comic tradition, and I add footnote boxes so as to keep readers 'in the loop' with situations and artifacts that have appeared before. I hope it all works! I really want to keep my readers...
I recently re-read the whole series (in paper form) one Issue right after another, and found it to be very satisfactory in that form. I hope readers will stay with the story because it is not designed to keep anyone hanging long. Also, I have followed Marvel/DC Comic tradition, and I add footnote boxes so as to keep readers 'in the loop' with situations and artifacts that have appeared before. I hope it all works! I really want to keep my readers...
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:02PM
bravo1102
at 1:13PM, Nov. 16, 2008
Show don't tell. Open it like an onion; one layer at a time. I have everything planned out way ahead of time (like Babylon 5 and totally unlike Lost One had Harlan Ellison as a story consultant, the other is as lost as its title) Pacing however, well that can easily get wrecked in the re-writes. :(
When I'm reading it stinks because I'm usually two steps ahead of what the author is doing. I once figured out the entire mysterious story line of a 500 page novel on page 5. I kept reading to see if I was right. :( I was.
When I'm reading it stinks because I'm usually two steps ahead of what the author is doing. I once figured out the entire mysterious story line of a 500 page novel on page 5. I kept reading to see if I was right. :( I was.
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:33AM
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