What are the alternatives to manga/anime style bishonen and yaoi?

not sure about your question, I'd say just do the story the best you can and you'll eventally get female readers. I read a lot of 'guy only' manga.
Saiyuki
Wild Adaptor
ES
Air Gear
GTO

Then I read realy girly stuff:
(lots of magical girls)
Crimson hero
GALS
Comic


None of them realy had anything in common except the fact that I enjoyed reading them. I utterly hate what a story just has a bunch of random hot guys for no reason, and Im sick and tired of this whole 'yaoi' thing. I know many girls who even stopped being yaoi fans cause it's just too much.

So long as your art is realy nice and detailed, or your story is just too funny and your characters seem 'real' then Im all up for it.

Most women I know like adventure, fantasy, mystery, and horror stories. Usually giant breasts and random graphic violence don't really "do" anything for us/them. It helps to have at least one realistic female lead (not a ditsy eye-candy girl and not the domineering stereotype angry feminist either -- someone with depth). It isn't necessary to have a female lead, but it's nice to have someone admirable to relate to, and I personally get drawn into those stories more.

I actually don't know many women my age (20's to 30's) who are into romance and just staring at "hot guys." I'm sure that's another demographic you can "target" if you want, but if that's not what you like to draw/write, then why would you do that? (That actually goes for ANY comic you're writing. You should make what you like and let it hit whatever demographic it fits.)

If you are talking about how to design banners, just represent your comic properly with some nice art and the comic title. If it has that female lead I mentioned, have your banner show her doing something cool.

Shojo, it's what women want ;p

But if you want to do it in a less ditsy manner, go from drama and fantasy perspectives. But... really, handsome men in the comic helps. I myself am not a yaoi fan mind you and my male characters aren't so bishie, but it does sell. Unfortunatly.

When I look for stories I like romance... but I don't like something that's JUST romance... that's really boring. There must be some other plot at the same time. I'm assuming you are trying get more female audiences for your already established comic? well, add some romance, I know for a fact that if a book I read has a great adventure and no romance/not enough romance, it becomes really boring for me (LOTR is great but there's not enough romance SOT has romance to the point of 'ok we get it! moving on!'). You don't HAVE to have a female lead, but having female main characters is a big one along with romantic/attempts at romantic interactions.

I speak for myself here XD

I'm not sure if the question from the title is how to attract females to a particular comic, or how to make a comic that isn't yaoi/bishonen that will attract a female audience. I ask simply because the distinction is pretty significant.

What attracts females to comics? I think its hard to say exactly, but I notice there are some factors in comics with a higher female readership.

Bishonen means 'pretty boy'. It can also be translated to hawt males. Let's face it, females like to gawk at eyecandy as much as guys like to gawk at hawt females. I think that many people miss the aesthetic of the 'bishonen', although I think its perfectly capable to produce a version what isn't overly effeminate and blatantly homosexual. I don't think a lot of guys are going to actively try to produce that character in their stories however, because I don't think most understand what it is exactly about them )save from a very superficial standpoint) that girls dig about them.

I'm speaking from what I've observed and read, just guessing in some places, but maybe it will give some insight and you can figure your answer out from there. I'm also speaking as a female comic reader and what I've observed about other female comic readers.

Bringing girls as a comic audience, and a viable one is relatively new in the north american sense. As such the aesthetics and conventions in north american comics has been very male heavy for a long time. While there women into comic books, its been very male dominated and oriented for so long and, despite many attempts, the ball was dropped. Then in stepped the japanese. In japan, they did not exclude women and bred a genre of comics made by women for women. Shojo comics, which are comics aimed at girls from ages 10 - 18, and then there is Josei (which means female) which is comics aimed at females from 18 and up, so more adult women. But if you do the research, you'll find that north americans don't really understand the japanese genres as what we have over here is all muddled, since the distributors don't want to actually put off men reading so called 'girls' comics.

Artistically, Shojo tends to employ artstyles that could be described as delicate, swirling, flowing, and beautiful. Characters tend to be 'pretty', girls and boys, with cuteness thrown in for good measure. Girls, seem to, by nature, have a different sense of aesthetics than males. What looks good to a male, doesn't always appeal to a female, and men, being more practical, tend to forgo the frilly bits and cute that delight many girls about shojo art. Part of the reason Bishonen look the way they do is that it well.. appeals to a lot of girls. Its the female equivalent of the "big breasted amazon". The sensitive, emotional, beautiful man is the sort of idealized female dream/fantasy guy. I should note that NOT all females are going to be into the same variations, as all women, just as men, have varied tastes.

In terms of story, romance is a very common theme in women's manga, and comics, although that hardly has to be the ONLY theme. Horror romance, sci-fi romance, fantasy romance, humor romance.. it can be paired many ways. Its often better to wrap the romance into some kind of other plot so that there can be romantic tentions and so forth. Unfortunately, most guy's don't really know women or their situations well enough to create realistic characterizations. The same could be said of women writing men characters. They write an idealized feminized man to the way a woman would LIKE them to act, just as most men tend to write stereotyped females in a masculine way. Ultimately however, what females seem to enjoy is a story that deals with emotions, that they can relate with, that they can identify with the characters and their situations, and has a nice dose of eye candy.

If you want to attract more females, you have to get into their mindspace. Doing the research, just like any good marketing person should. Look at numbers, professional samples, demographics, surveys, 'chick flicks', etc. That will probably give you some ideas at least, with some real numbers.

Usedbooks is correct in that many of the guy's staples, such as the large breasted heroine and graphic violence and gore, probably aren't going to help your case. (actually... it can offend a lot of girls. A notoriously insecure lot, for a good part.) If you are looking to attract the heterosexual female, we need to see hawt men. It's only natural, girls like guys. We want to look at guys, not girls. Cute animals help too. Women are suckers for cute fuzzy things. Stuff that evokes emotion is also important, preferably warm, fuzzy emotions.

I suspect it has less to do with "how" you advertise than "where" you advertise. To state the obvious, you need to place your ads where female fans of comics are likely to gather. Also post in the forums at those sites if they have one.

One of the newest sites (and one of the least riddled with self-righteous misandry) is Pink Raygun . I'm not sure how popular they are at the moment (they seem to have redesigned the site in a very user-unfriendly way just recently!) but the site does have links to dozens of other comic related sites and blogs targeted at female fans. And, of course, each of those sites has links to others.


Phew! Got through all that without using the term fan-grrl.
Well, except just then, obviously.
:)

Girls like, and this is just some basic stuff, romance, mystery/suspense, and homosexuality. I try to put a lot of that stuff into penis as often as possible. It seems that female audiences enjoy a female protagonist more so than a male one, its the "they can identify better" type of thing. Like why I'm more interested in dead pool as a character, because he's a wild lunatic who has failed relationships and watches a lot of TV - because I'm a wild lunatic who has failed relationships and watch a lot of TV. Most of penis is a parody and is usually not politically correct, so you'll probably see females enjoy folding clothes or cooking or something usually associated with femininity.

I'd also like to stress the cute factor. A lot of female readers enjoy characters in my comic that are cute. Especially when they do something sinisterly evil or mischievous. That tends to get a lot of positive female feedback.

I'd like to hope that Pleasantly Plump (the sub comic for Wednesday in penis) hasn't completely polarized or alienated the female reader base. Whenever a womans period or something especially gross happens, women tend to not like that. Some do, some don't. The ones that don't are highly vocal about it.

marine
I'd also like to stress the cute factor. A lot of female readers enjoy characters in my comic that are cute. Especially when they do something sinisterly evil or mischievous. That tends to get a lot of positive female feedback.

...

That's kinda the reason I have a large female audience.

Speaking as a woman who is a dorky fan of One Piece (y hello thar, shonen manga/anime!), I'd say that women tend to be attracted more to stories with longer storylines - while gag-strips are fun, it seems return readers want longer storylines. Manga and anime has a large female fanbase, and looking at what part of that industry that has a large female fanbase - shojou, some of the in-between (neither shojou nor shonen), like Death Note, etc., etc.

While I don't think it's gender specific to women, I'd say that a good depth of character is a good thing to push; characters who are people, rather than walking, talking stereotypes of any kind.

JillyFoo
What are the alternatives to manga/anime style bishonen and yaoi?

thats not the only type of comic girls like you know..
it's just....other styles don't always seem to want us.


if you have a good story im sure both genders will easily appreciate it.
I read your comics before, anyway...

Mid-thirties female here with pre-teen female living in the other room. We like the following:

Gaara. *rolls eyes*

No, SHE likes Gaara. It's not that he's a pretty boy, and he certainly hasn't shown any homosexual tendencies. She likes him because he's the tragic type. That's one thing almost all the girls I've known in my entire life have always been drawn to: pain. Pain is good for the artist's soul, depth, yadda yadda yadda.

The only reason why my girl-child sneaks yaoi onto her computer is because her friends are doing it - we all know how those vicious circles go. Furthermore, if you're just drawing for pre-teen fangirls... where does sex belong in there again?? Please tell me because I think I might have my morales crossed.

In fact, this whole stereotype about women liking homosexuality really grinds my teeth. (No offense to anyone here. I'm just saying.) I not only couldn't care less about it, I see five examples of it everytime I visit my older brother. I used to see thirty when I went to work. Homosexuality just... isn't going to do it for us experienced heterosexual women. We know what sex is (where 12 year olds aren't supposed to yet) and know for a fact that homosexual dreams leave you wondering why you just wasted your time when you could've been on a date having some real fun.

Now I'm not saying there isn't a very large yaoi group out there. There is. It's just I've not met any above 12.

But to answer the original question, the alternatives that I personally like (and my daughter seems to be following) have been listed already but I'll say them again. For the love of the gods, gimme some depth!! :-) Of course I identify with a main female character, but feminist ones turn me off. Tragic ones are okay to a point, so long a they're not emo 100% of the time. (Again I have teenagers if I want to see that.) And beautiful artwork is GREAT!!! so long as there's a good storyline to back it up. Even though I'm an artist, I've always hated eye candy for eye candy's sake. I want a story. I want some meat and potatoes. Give me wit; things to make me think. Don't try to dumb down my brain. I'm going to get bored and find something better to read.

I've noticed that us fangirlie types gravitate heavily towards the silent, secretive type guy. He's a mystery, something to speculate about. In other words, he's cute... and he lets us use our brains simply by not making an effort.

i actually found out that i have a fairtly high female readership, form the people ive contacted to ask what the think, buggered if i know why. its not somthiig ive ever aimed for. but apanartly normal dirty bloke humour and fairdinkum bullshit conversations works.

This worked. Really well.
;-)

~B

spearcarrier
Now I'm not saying there isn't a very large yaoi group out there. There is. It's just I've not met any above 12.

I know TONS of girls who love boy-on-boy stories. I don't know any girls under 12.

spearcarrier
Mid-thirties female here with pre-teen female living in the other room. We like the following:

Gaara. *rolls eyes*

No, SHE likes Gaara. It's not that he's a pretty boy, and he certainly hasn't shown any homosexual tendencies. She likes him because he's the tragic type. That's one thing almost all the girls I've known in my entire life have always been drawn to: pain. Pain is good for the artist's soul, depth, yadda yadda yadda.


But to answer the original question, the alternatives that I personally like (and my daughter seems to be following) have been listed already but I'll say them again. For the love of the gods, gimme some depth!! :-) Of course I identify with a main female character, but feminist ones turn me off. Tragic ones are okay to a point, so long a they're not emo 100% of the time. (Again I have teenagers if I want to see that.) And beautiful artwork is GREAT!!! so long as there's a good storyline to back it up. Even though I'm an artist, I've always hated eye candy for eye candy's sake. I want a story. I want some meat and potatoes. Give me wit; things to make me think. Don't try to dumb down my brain. I'm going to get bored and find something better to read.

Tragic is pretty popular for girls. Just take a look at Chucha from Nemution Jewel. I'd bet half the comments have the words "poor Chucha" in there. Lol. Most yaoi comics I've encountered are pity parties all around. So I'd support the idea that girls like tragic stories/characters.

My DE comic has lots of tragic situations in there. Maybe that's why it's the more popular one. I don't know if more girls read it or not.