Hey all,

I have been away from the forums for awhile, but I have a question I am just curious about. I think it has been asked on here before, but not sure. I am having a conflict with being honest in some of the comments I leave at other peoples comics. There are comics I really like and comment on them accordingly, but there are comics I read and want to leave an honest comment, but am afraid I will hurt someones feelings around the community or get in trouble. I don't want to leave mean or abusive comments...just my honest opinions and critiques. Anyone else have this problem around here?

If something sucks, say so. Just don't be a butt about it.

Thats my thoughts on it.

If there's something wrong on a page of my comic, like if I made a spelling error, or there's a continuity problem, or I really messed up some anatomy, or the colours clash...I WANT TO KNOW. If nobody tells me, I might repeat the same mistake!
Leaving a critique is a good idea, so long as you remember to phrase it politely and constructively. Explain what you think the problem is, why you think it's a problem, and how you think it could be resolved/why you think it'd be better done differently.
So long as you're polite, the large majority of artists will be very grateful.
Nit-picking stuff you dislike personally, however, doesn't really help anybody, "I don't like X's new hairstyle!", "This character isn't cool!" etc. Don't help much. "This comix sux lol!" helps NOBODY. At all.

I am glad to hear that some of the artists on hear want criticism with the good comments as well. I want the same thing with my comic. Let me know what you don't like or what you think could of been better...not saying I will change it...but it helps me grow as a storyteller and artist. I am really trying to work on making my artwork more clear for my readers. I tend to get detail happy and lose the reader. My girlfriend...who is also an artist...has help me a lot with this area, because she can see things that look fine to me. In fact my Godlings book was originally 126 pages and done awhile ago...I felt dissatisfied with the ending so I wrote another 163 pages to complete the story to my tastes. My old book was hard to see by a lot of people and I could never figure out exactly why. My girlfriend helped me edit the entire first book and really help me streamline my old artwork to be more reader friendly. My second book really reflects what I learned in us editing the first book.

Yeah, as people say here, if you want to be "honest", whatever you mean by that, just do it!

Rude, or abusive stuff though will likely get you reported and may end up with a warning level being increased, and the artist may still report non rude critical comments but you WONT get your warning level touched on those, they're simply deleted because that's what the artist wants, as it should be since it's their space and they decide what goes where.

However we have a thread in this very forum for people who want to be abusive to let rip over certain comics and pieces of work where the artist has given permission. And there's also an entire forum devoted to criticism that cycles through comics constantly, if you like criticism you could try going there and testing yourself at it in that forum. :)

ahumphres
Hey all,

I have been away from the forums for awhile, but I have a question I am just curious about. I think it has been asked on here before, but not sure. I am having a conflict with being honest in some of the comments I leave at other peoples comics. There are comics I really like and comment on them accordingly, but there are comics I read and want to leave an honest comment, but am afraid I will hurt someones feelings around the community or get in trouble. I don't want to leave mean or abusive comments...just my honest opinions and critiques. Anyone else have this problem around here?

like some have said I think it comes down to if you really want to see the artist improve. Some on here have some great potential and helpful comments go a long way. I am surprised to be saying this...but marine is right...just don't be a butt about it.

I think most artists are starved for honest feedback. But I do know how you feel. Usually if I don't have anything constructive to say I say nothing. Usually though, if I feel like giving an honest critique, I'll read someone's entire archives and then PQ them a critique as a whole. Getting ot giving a critique on one comic, i feel, is almost a waste, because either the artist know he f'ed it up, or they're so jaded by all the work they just did to really register the problem. Surely when they review it again in a month or so they'll be like "whoops"

It's better to critique the whole comic, because then you can see trends in art and writing.

Yeah, I think the only thing that kinda irks me in feedbacks is if someone is vague.Like they say panel 4 seems off. Usually I know why, but sometimes I can't see why it would be off.

Everyone can feel free to tell me all the flaws they find. If you look you will find A LOT =P I especially like knowing if there is an issue with the story or if a character seems "out of character" beyond reason. As I am more focussed on that stuff than anything else.

As for me commenting on other's works. If I see something I think will help them improve I mention it. Unless glaring that can usually take some time cause I like to see the pacing of an artist as well and read their comments to see what kind of mentality they have. How focussed they are, how much time they can invest, age, and other stuff reflects how I would give feedback.

I welcome comments/crits of any size, shape or form. I don't care if people are dicks about it.

TnTComic
I welcome comments/crits of any size, shape or form.

Ditto.

Same! Suggestion/critique can be even nicer than "good job," because it shows you care and respect someone enough to want to help them improve.

You know, most of the time, for me, it isn't what is said, but how it is worded. You can tell someone the same exact thing and make it sound positive and helpful rather than derogatory. One way to do that is point out something you like along with what you don't. And say things like "this way might look better" rather than "this is bad." Or "have you considered trying this?" Completely negative comments are not only unpleasant, but they simply don't help at all. Tell people how to improve not just that something is wrong.

This reminds me of that dark time in DrunkDuck's history were the mindset was "give other people 5's on their comic, and they won't get mad and snipe you back". Of course, anyone remember when giving someone a honest opinion was considered "bad" and anything below a 5 meant all your pages got spammed by said immature users with 1's?

I'm usually honest in my comments. But if I feel in my gut that the critique is becoming kinda embarassing if seen in public, I would PQ the critique to the artist rather than post it on the comics page.

mlai
I'm usually honest in my comments. But if I feel in my gut that the critique is becoming kinda embarassing if seen in public, I would PQ the critique to the artist rather than post it on the comics page.

Yeah, I think the problem with the point system is that people are naturally sympathetic. Even if they're just being honest, they see critiques as a form of public humiliation, and therefore they won't do it.

The problem is also that most of the people commenting on our comics are other artists, which is why there's so much empathy here. We've all been in the situation where some dickwad starts nailing on our mistakes in front of a room full of people, and therefore none of us want to be that person giving the artist the jazz.

I'm not immune to this either. If I see a comic I don't particular care for, I generally walk away without saying anything, UNLESS I see potential for improvement. And even then, I have a bad habit of giving soft punches. Still, I can only think of a handful of times when I felt that a "2" was worth posting, and I have never given anyone a "1".

On the flipside, I got a "4" recently, which is REALLY unusual. And again, that's the problem. The only people who want to leave feedback are those people who enjoy my stuff. I never seem to get someone who leaves a real criticism.

Except for this one time... Before the last big crash, I had this guy who kept coming back and giving me 1's and 2's, which was annoying, because he wasn't saying anything constructive. It was basically, "I don't really like this." He was just kept knocking me down a peg. On the other hand, it wasn't like I could complain, because he wasn't being an extraordinary dick either.

The thing is that I've been to comic pages where that is exactly what I would say, because there is nothing else to say, other than, "That wasn't funny." or "Cutting and pasting images from other mediums makes me want to leave and not come back." What else can you say?

I completely LOVE honest responses to my work. "It sucks" is just as valid & valuable to me as "Amazing". Details ALWAYS help, but it means a ton that someone has reacted enough to my work to take the time to respond.

For the most part, however, it takes alot for me to leave a less-then-positive comment. From my perspective, if I'm not asked, I try not to offer any advice or suggestions. It's not that I'm against honest, sometimes hard-to swallow comments. Far from it. If someone asks, I'm a no holds barred reviewer. I try to be professional about it, but a vague, sihonest review is pretty much useless.

No, the reason I seldom say anthing but positive things is that I'm of the opinion its sort of a waste of time. More than likely, if the creator is serious, they saw the flaw LONG before I did & are trying to learn to address it. They know there's a problem. I prefer to give them the benefit of a doubt unless they ask otherwise. The other type of creator could not hear me no matter how relevent my opinion is. They cannot handle any type of crit, so I chose not to waste my time.

But that's just me.

later,
Chip

I love nothing more than honest feedback myself, but I don't give it unless someone asks for it. Some people just can't take criticism, and really, I don't have the energy to get into arguments over things like this, and I'm not out to step on anyone's toes around here anyway.

My problem is more with giving ratings than comments. I've never yet seen a comment accompanied by a rating of less than 5. This seems to make the rating system fairly redundant.

I'm still fairly new here and so, if something about a page hasn't quite worked for me, I have left 4's occasionally (so that might have been me, Neil!) Now, I'd have thought 4 was a pretty good score, right? 80%? And yet, the more I've come to realise that no-one else is leaving anything other than 5, the more mean I've started to feel!

Personally, the way it's operating at the moment, I think the ratings look as if they've become pretty meaningless and might as well be discontinued. Then at least I wouldn't feel so mean any more!
;)

It seems everyone gives fives...so much so that I personally never look at my ratings, because I already know they are fives. I agree that unless people use ratings more honestly with a comment...they are becoming useless. I know a lot of people just leave fives and no comment...come on and give me your opinion in some other form than a number.

5's are no longer meant as a rating. Especially since they don't determine your rank anymore.

A 5 is mainly someone's way of saying "Yo Holmes I was here today and I'm still supporting your comic! I look forward to more, keep at it!"

I can be a jerk or a nice guy on comments.

Since I don't have a comic, nobody can 'return fire' so to speak.

I'm only ever a jerk when you can see that the person has put no effort into it what so ever. If they put effort, whether it's good or bad I'll be nice and I'll be critical.

Just don't let me find a 5 minute Sonic sprite comic. Then I would actually kill you in the comments.

Oh, and I never rate. Waste of time. Just like blank comments.

in my case, a comment saying my comic sucks would help just as much as a comment saying it kicks ass.

Most of the time if there's something that I'd criticize, there's some redeeming quality too. So I'll just comment on both.

It's the same with me, I would like to hear about anything that was wrong with my webmanga, those are really usefull comments, because they help you to improve, but if you have doubts of how to comment on a bad page, you could remark something good, and then suggest to improve something else.
Not being blunt is the clue =D, and maybe if you think that page deserves a low grade, but you are not sure of the reaction, don't grade it, but make a note of that on your comment.

O_o XD I typed here instead of hear XD hahahha

Huh...

I'm all for giving constructive criticism and totally will when asked, but as going so far as to leave negative comments 'just because,' isn't my thing. If I like something, sure... I'll leave a note, and if they ask for honest feedback and not the usual pandering dribble that most fanatics will spew when asked about their favorite things (music, movies, webcomics, et al), then I'll give honest feedback.

Though, growing up, I was raised with this in mind: "If you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say it", and that goes out the window as soon as someone asks, because everyone needs feedback to get better. Especially me.

Aha! You're one of the Redheads!

mlai
Aha! You're one of the Redheads!

Actually, I have really dark brown/black hair... but thanks for noticing? :P

He means your comic character in your banner ^_^

ozoneocean
He means your comic character in your banner ^_^

Yeah, heh, I figured with that 'redhead' thread going in 'general' ;)

I find it funny... it's sorta like they spotted bigfoot or something and have a lumbering picture of me that's all fuzzy or something >.>

Anywho, 'nuff bout me and my inadvertent-thread-hijacking...back to: FOX'S SCARIEST UN-TRUTHFUL COMMENTS ON WEB COMICS!


:P

This topic is entirely too long considering the answer is "Don't be a pussy."

Well, I've gotten two public criticisms of my strip on my DD site, and both of them were from people with neither a remote sense of what I was trying to accomplish nor, apparently, any interest in the strip itself. Of course their criticism was offered under the guise of 'friendly advice from a fellow cartoonist,' but really they were both ineptly veiled drive by shootings from a couple of people smugly satisfied with their own success and looking to relieve a bit of boredom by slamming it to a newbie.

Using e-mail or the PQ - whatever you want to call it - is the correct venue for strong criticism of someone else's work; that is, if you are also a fellow cartoonist and just can't resist the urge to tinker with the workings of someone else's vision. Then, too, there is at least one DD forum dedicated to the art of critique. Drag the poor fellow's url into that forum and have at him to your heart's content; but leave his damn 'toon page alone, particularly if you haven't bothered to learn that the items that you consider mistakes are items that he deliberately put there for his own very good reasons. Offering up criticisms without first understanding the artist's intentions is in itself grounds for nasty criticism in return.

I've noticed that the few people on these boards who make it a habit to investigate DD 'toon sites and offer up strong criticism in the comment box are themselves abrasive personalities in the forums. They tend to consider courtesy and kindness as some sort of evil weakness to be stamped out with leaden feet to the beat of a quick step rhythm.

I'll accept civilized criticism from well-intentioned people. But I'll reply in kind to people thinking that they are doing the entire art world a favor by straightening out some well-meaning but clueless artistic hack. Fortunately, though, as a political cartoonist, I'm used to not having many DD visitors and so my 'attitude' probably won't cost me a thing.

While I am happily set in rant mode, I'd like to add that I also think that the ratings system used by DD merely encourages people to artificially inflate the ego and the popularity of sites. In my case, as I only have a couple of regular visitors, the ratings boost my fragile ego. In the case of other sites where the artist has great gobs of visitors the ratings system tends to lull the artist into thinking that his or her stuff isn't occasionally falling flat.

I like the comments feature, as it at least lets someone at the low end of the visitor's spectrum, such as myself, know that he's not just tossing out stuff to an unresponding void. The rating feature, however, I believe to be both useless and something that too often creates a false impression of ability or success.

I've written about criticism techniques and habits elsewhere - and was recently, and rightly so, asked to take it over here by a moderator - and want to add before hitting the send button that it's all in the method of delivery. if your criticism methodology has all the kindness and sensitivity of a flung half-brick then keep it in the criticism forum where such things have a place. If, however, you genuinely care about the artist's work and wish to inspire, encourage, and help then by all means craft a well-intentioned and meaningful criticism, but send it to him or her via e-mail. It's the civilized thing to do.