I took painting lessons for a couple of years, which is where I learned color theory and to consider lighting and started learning some anatomy. She also tried teaching me perspective, but I failed at that miserably... heh... so I guess I've had formal training. However, this was all traditional art... watercolor, pencils, acrilics... I self-learned everything I know digitally.

Really, my art teacher just sort of kicked me out of the door, tossed me a walking stick and said 'get going!'

I recently finished a one week course at a specialty manga school in Japan. It's pretty good because they teach you comic techniques instead of how to actually draw (if they taught you the latter I feel like you would loose your originality).

NickGuy
I just could never pay 30 thousand dollars a year for it

Thank heavens tertiary education in Australia isn't nearly as expensive as it is where you are. Pretty much all education is government subsidised here, to varying amounts. Even when you pay "full" fees. I think the only truly unsubsidised education is for international students.

Self-taught and still self-teaching I guess.

Jonko
I recently finished a one week course at a specialty manga school in Japan. It's pretty good because they teach you comic techniques instead of how to actually draw (if they taught you the latter I feel like you would loose your originality).

While it's pretty unreasonable to be taught how to draw in one week the idea that originallity is corroded by competence and proficency is ridiculous!

Phillby
the idea that originallity is corroded by competence and proficency is ridiculous!

In terms of the schooling she's talking about though, it could be a possibility. Remember this is Japan she's talking about. Not that Japanese are any less original than anyone else, but their main comic style IS all about a specific "look" and that's the sort of class she took.

Jonko
I recently finished a one week course at a specialty manga school in Japan. It's pretty good because they teach you comic techniques instead of how to actually draw (if they taught you the latter I feel like you would loose your originality).

I actually did apply for a graphic novel certificate program, I had to withdraw for financial reasons. I do hope that I can apply again next year.

ozoneocean

Phillby
the idea that originallity is corroded by competence and proficency is ridiculous!

In terms of the schooling she's talking about though, it could be a possibility. Remember this is Japan she's talking about. Not that Japanese are any less original than anyone else, but their main comic style IS all about a specific "look" and that's the sort of class she took.

This hypothetical drawing class doesn't sound like a very good one!

Regardless, being taught a different style of drawing isn't a bad thing as long as you don't flat out copy it. Your own personal style is something that develops over time and incorporates elements from outside influnces while remaining unique to yourself. your style shouldn't be a collection of your faults and failures as an artist.

Also, Manga as a style is actually pretty diverse! The problem lies with the large amount of middle-of-the road stuff that we get exposed to (not to mention Anime witch tends to use diluted designs and animation shortcuts to save money). It's the same thing as western comics being synonimous with the superhero genre.

The fact is The class Jonko took was only a week long and didn't cover any style of drawing at all and I've draged the thread offtopic to some extent.

Great to hear you had the opportunity to take a short-course, Jonko. Must have been fun to be in a class full of comic artists and writers!

ozoneocean
Thank heavens tertiary education in Australia isn't nearly as expensive as it is where you are. Pretty much all education is government subsidised here, to varying amounts. Even when you pay "full" fees. I think the only truly unsubsidised education is for international students.

Ditto for NZ. We pay only 1/4 of the full tuition costs, can take out a government-backed student loan and receive some living costs. It makes tertiary education more accessible for domestic students.


Back to the original question: my formal art learning consists of a few days drawing cartoons afterschool (I was maybe 13?) and painting black lines on white canvas through high school art class to gain a C pass (I still don't understand abstract art).

Aside from that I just read books, mucked around on the computer and kept sketching.

Aside from high school art class I haven't taken any lessons. I'm not saying that formal training won't make you a better artist. It definitely will.

But, well, the only way that one will improve themselves at art (Or anything, really) is to practice your ass off. No amount of instruction is going to do any good if one lacks the resolve to put in the time and effort necessary to hone an artistic ability.

I tend to agree with that. I assume that formal art classess grade you on whether you are able to apply principles and techniques taught in class, too. I've never met an amateur who can read through a how-to-book then immediately draw like a master.

Yet. :D

Self-Taught, as really I want to make it as a writer so becoming decent at drawing was pretty much just neccessary to be able to write comics. Yes, I know, my current comic is hardly an artistic feat, but at least it's enough for you to know what's going on.

I'm currently going through formal training, but my drawing style came from just playing around on my own for a few years (and will continue to evolve from such adventures).

Formal training isn't necessary, but it can be extremely helpful to have someone with experience point out little things to you (like the fact that a properly proportioned human is roughly as tall as the length of their outstretched arms).

I didn't get into comics in the usual way, though. I wanted to be an animator for years, so when I finally took some classes, I learned very quickly that you HAVE to storyboard your entire film. And guess what storyboards closely resemble?

Btw, I will suggest that everyone spend some time doing (or at least trying) life drawing. It improves your drawing technique and can help to build/strengthen your own drawing style.

*cough* 4 years at a famous art academy, where everyday you spent hour after hour painstakingly drawing everything you saw. When you went to the bathroom, when you walked outside, WHEN YOU ATE LUNCH, and even when you were sleeping. *cough*

Of course, I am kidding.
I'm self-taught.

Well I had art at school, although I wouldn;t say it was very helpful until year 10 and 11. Now I'm in college doing a BTEC National Diploma in Art and Design, so yeah I have a little training lol. But I still learn most stuff by myself at home. At college I mainly learn how to use different media. With comics I'm completely self taught, no one's ever taught me that lol. I think it shows aswell, I've got a lot to learn.

For the most part I was self taught drawing from my favorite comic books then I took a few art classes in high school and I learned a lot of stuff there that helped me improve fast.

Took a couple classes at art college, got an associate of art in 2-year college, haven't been back to school since.
The school taught me the basics of design, and how to use various media, and it was helpful. But they don't teach much about comics, so everything I know about comics came from practice.

It shouldn't be too hard to tell that I'm only self-taught.


....well, okay. I did take some classes in high school and college, but I was a very bad student and didn't learn a thing.

I've been drawing at least since I was 2 years old. Around 14 or 15 I started to improve, only to drop any long lasting serious attempts about 2 years later when my interest shifted towards music and computers. I still did some art on my Amiga, but drawing with a mouse = paaaaain! Oh, and there were some returns to comics here and there but not much. During that period I have spent some time figuring perspective (but without any grids, a habit I can't get rid of), heavy shadowing (which I improved on much later) and was trying to understand foreshortening (how do I draw an arrow pointing at the reader so that it looks right?). Never did get faces right though.

No formal training during that period as I wasn't even aware of the option nor did I knew where to turn for anything like that. I thought art school was all about painting and sculpting, and I wasn't interested in either of them.

About I think 2005 I have returned to drawing a little bit and have been improving since then, and while I do look at books etc, it's still self-taught.

hm, I guess I'd say I'm a mix of both?

I've always loved art, and so I've been drawing since I was a toddler, painting since I was 10. And because of that love of art I minored in it. It wasn't a whole lot of courses (7), and I only took one drawing class (that's where Jonko and I met!!! see this comic of hers for more info ;D .)

I took one completely pointless digital art class (I learned nothing) one amazing photography course, and four painting classes (the first two were stellar, the third was a mess, and the last one was pretty good).

I got a lot better in my first two painting classes (I felt like one of those 'before and after' people) but it didn't really reflect much in my comics... I did this page after doing these sprawling, impressive, realistic oil paintings (I sound like I'm bragging, but it's been four years and I still feel like those paintings are the best work I've done. Just goes to show that I should put forth more effort I guess?)

For comics, it's so different that I feel like I'm completely self-taught. But I'm pretty strict with the self-teaching stuff (I don't just doodle aimlessly), so I study classic figure drawing in my spare time and work on understanding animals' skeletal structures...

oh and I think Jonko's manga school thing sounds cool... it's not like it professes to teach you EVERYthing in terms of manga, but just because it's 1 week and intensive doesn't mean it's automatically bad. You can improve at drawing in like an hour, if you've got a helpful instructor. (It's not always hand-eye coordination that people need to work on-- it's how you 'see' things, and how you use the medium.)

AND those who say that taking art classes will make their art unoriginal, that makes no sense. Think of when you learned handwriting when you were a kid. Everyone had to like, trace cursive letters exhaustively, over and over. But NO ONE has handwriting like one of those handwriting books, and everyone's handwriting is very different.

As others have said, I'd say we're all "self taught". "Formal training" only widens your scope and offers you access to more styles and materials.

It's impossible to improve your skill through training really, it's ALL you. If you improve after training then it was just because during that time you were forced to focus more of your time on those skills. The same improvement could occur in any setting if you're dedicated.

During training though you'll be exposed to things that would be harder to come by if you were on your own, so it's worthwhile. ;)

I taught myself to draw for the most part. The formal classes I've taken were only to learn how to use pastel/acrylics the proper way. Even then, I mostly drew animals and scenery in those classes.

ozoneocean
It's impossible to improve your skill through training really, it's ALL you. If you improve after training then it was just because during that time you were forced to focus more of your time on those skills. The same improvement could occur in any setting if you're dedicated.

I disagree- the presence of others-- teachers, peers with critical eyes-- can make all the difference. There are plenty of artistic nuances that I wouldn't have noticed probably if someone better than me at art hadn't pointed them out.

for comics? all of it has been self taught with life drawing classes thrown in

Kristen Gudsnuk
I disagree- the presence of others-- teachers, peers with critical eyes-- can make all the difference. There are plenty of artistic nuances that I wouldn't have noticed probably if someone better than me at art hadn't pointed them out.

Peers and criticism is a factor in any environment. It's just more intensive in a formal setting, but not always.

But surely the benefit of formal training is in the widening of scope, the focus on your skills and the profesional level critique?

True an extremly dedicated person could achive all of those without going on a course, but you'd have to supply your own text books, materials and hunt down people to grade your work.

Phillby
But surely the benefit of formal training is in the widening of scope, the focus on your skills

Yes, as I've already said. ;)

ozoneocean
Peers and criticism is a factor in any environment. It's just more intensive in a formal setting, but not always.

Not really; what about people (...not me, of course...) who have no friends, who know few artists?

Meeting some really amazing artists will help anyone openminded improve tremendously...
laymen will tell you 'something looks weird about that arm,' but really good Artistes will know WHAT's wrong (this line or that, etc). Although with patience, you could figure anything out on your own anyway.

I love the response from the community regarding how you all acquired your skills.

So then here's a question for all...especially Ozoneocean...

Back to Rob Liefeld - Though he's a self-taught artist, who pretty much gained his talent by a "baptism of fire" (Art gig wise), is it possible that he honed his craft over the years from professional criticism...and from that, gained a degree of "formal" training though professional work and professional artists?

Much like all of you have come to improve being here and in other comic circles?

blntmaker
Much like all of you have come to improve being here and in other comic circles?

Naw, that's real world work experience. :)
That's better for honing skills to a purpose than any "formal Training".

Even if he does have a weird nasty style. -_-

In the academic environment that I went through the only "training" aspect was exposure to different media and art movements.

I can use a massive range of media and techniques with confidence, but I won't be nearly as good at them as people have learned to use them from experience and work with them.

And all that said, Rob Liefeld is way better at comics than I'll ever be.

Rob liefield is hilarious.

http://progressiveboink.com/archive/robliefeld.html