I'm a writer currently looking for an artist to help join forces with me so that we could take on the web comic community together. I have lots of arguably great ideas and I'm willing to toss around some theories how the story can proceed.

What you see here is an introduction to a story and hopefully the first few pages of a pretty nice looking comic if everything goes according to plan. It probably won't be
the first thing I'll make here though. More likely a later project once I got few short and silly ones under my belt but who knows.

Everything marked with *stars* is basically a short description of how the panels would look like.

*Picture of earth with the moon in orbit, sailing among the stars. A voice starts with the words: I like to start out with a brief introduction of Earths history.

*Following pictures keep on displaying Earth with symbols of explanations correlating with the narrator.*

Ever since mankind developed social structure, war and conflict has been one of its major driving factor. The scale and reason behind it changes the further we travel through time but the underlying motivation has always stayed the same.

Tribe members fought each other for leadership. Those tribes then fought other human tribes for better hunting grounds.

Eventually settlements were formed. Towns and cities rose were the best farmlands or the most lucrative trade route could be found. In the end the fledgling societies would battle for each others assets.

Empires rose to challenge kingdoms. Religions were formed to challenge believes. All these things led to a great deal of conflict.

The industrial wars were about resources. The regions controlling resources in demand either flourished or found themselves besieged by neighboring regions coveting what was theirs.

*We now see the backside of a man standing over a holographic display of Earth overlooking a classroom full of students around the age of 15-16 year olds. The man continues.*

Now for those still oblivious about what that common motivation between all this warfare actually is the answer should not surprise you...

*We finally see the face of the narrator(who for some reason I keep picturing like Dr. Freeman)* ...Control.

*The following pictures are various shots of the students listening to the teacher, including the student who will become the protagonist of the story, overshots of the classroom, the holographic display (when he mentions Mars) and similar theme.*

The tribe members fought each other for control of the tribe. The tribes for control of the hunting grounds. Kingdoms fought for the control of the best trade routs. Even religious wars had an element of control within it for the religious leaders, who were behind the crusades would get to control the public through faith. As Earths resources dwindled it was only natural that the focus of conflict would shift towards that for he who controlled the fuel, or the food, or even water, would control the people.

*Edit* Ok! I posted this stuff below here originally but am now seriously considering ditching it.*/Edit*

Now another continuing theme that I will focus on is how technology of communication and travel helped expand the borders of empires and efforts of unification. The early kingdoms were nothing but few villages and a city. A good example of improved technology helping out with the rise and expander of an empire are the Romans. The highways they built helped their armies move fast across their land and news could travel at great speed towards the rulers to make appropriate orders.

I will also give you an example how to much distance can hinder your efforts to expand. One of the continents on Earth broke away from an European kingdom and declared itself independent country. That country came to be called America. They were able to do so since it took months for the news to travel to the king and then send an army back to reclaim that land, giving the rebels an ample time to prepare their defenses. A similar situation occurred during the Union wars. As the superpowers of earth; The Atlantic Alliance(America and Europe), The African Union and The Collective Orient *(These are the sides I'm thinking of although the names are just the first thing that came to my mind)* fought each other for a global control, the colonies on Mars severed their relations with Earth. At the time the colonies were mostly self sufficient and traded with each other for what they didn't have. In the end they formed the mankind's first planetary wide government. Such a strong symbol shifted the powers in the solar system and a seas fire was signed by all parties. Several decades later, Earth too became a single government planet. Even though such things are commonplace today, it was at the time a revolutionary progress.

****



Now as I said, this is the introduction to a very long story of mine. Where mankind currently lives on hundreds of planets. The are three factions, each controlling dozens of systems. Two currently fighting each other and one smaller, trying to stay neutral. Currently, there are no known alien races that the humans have encountered apart from occasional planet hosting single cell organisms. We've become expert in terraforming planets and can turn a barren world or planets hostile to life into thriving ecosystems fit for human life in matter of decades(killing of any alien single cell life in the process) provided that the planet fulfills certain requirements. We can not travel faster than light but have mastered gravity manipulation and instant wormhole travel(forming a wormhole that collapses after the trip). Forming a wormhole is dangerous inside a solar system so the ship or the fleet has to travel to a safe zone outside the system before jumping. These were examples of some of my technical issues that I've come up with for my story.

So here are at least how the first few pages would look like. It contains allot of info so I thought it would be a good idea to set it up as a class room. It's a shame though that most of the people in that room would not live to see act 2.

Anyone I want you all to give me some review. What do you guys think. Good? Bad? Exquisite? Revolting?

There's plenty more to that story and I have other stories up my sleeve but I rather would like to show it rather than say it if you know what I mean. I just hope I can find an artist willing to work with me. Well... wish me luck in that department.

You just made the biggest mistake a webcomic could make, and in the most severe manner. You can't do it in a worse way even if you tried.

Rule of thumb: Never bore the reader in chapter 1 (and especially page 1) with a long expositional narrative. As in "It's Year 354 in the reckoning of the land of Elfantasia, the land is divided into 4 kingdoms, 5 races, blah blah blablablabla..."

Yours is even worse because it's not even about elves (lol). It's about Earth. Starting from cavemen. And even worse, it's in a CLASSROOM. With a BORING teacher. And he drones on and on about things that the reader simply doesn't need to know to enjoy the real story.

Your setting is grounded enough in reality that you don't need an expositional narrative. Just tell your story. Readers will immediately pick up "OK it's a sci-fi earth." They'll absorb the technological and political minutiae along the way.

I agree with mlai. I caught the same mistake with my own story. You dont want to become tokensique (or Star War-ish minus the scrolly text)and stuff the history into your reader's eye socket before you begin your story. That just kills the appeal.

However if you still want to be able to tell some of the history as part of your story, I'd suggest another way of doing it. Ingrate it into the story (if you havent already) be creative with how you do it. Have it be revealed a little bit a time, just enough to keep the reader wanting to know more.

Other than that... As I see it, your story will do much better without the long, long history intro.

I disagree a bit with mlai.

I suggest using LOTS MORE VISUAL AIDS and deleting maybe... between 25-50% of it... either that or make lots and lots of pages. Up to you.

Looks interesting... the kind of stuff I'd read actually. (I'm fascinated with social and political theories btw)

Again. VISUAL AIDS are your best friend.

Hope this helps.

Hmmm.... Thanks allot for the input. I really kinda like the classroom approach though but trimming it down might be a good idea.

For example, what if I let go of the hole "how technology of communication and travel helped expand the borders" and "distance hinders efforts of expander". That was there to explain in the next few pages the development of the 3 major factions that are governing most of the mankind at the time but in hindsight it is unnecessary.

I don't want to get rid of the history part though since my point of the story is tied to it.
Now the story gets considerably more interesting but unfortunately there is a little slow buildup towards it that I'm still working on speeding up. Lets just say though that act 1 ends with a bang.

A thing I almost added was a conversation between a girl in the class and the teacher.

She asks what kind of control could have been gained from the origin war (or something like that). Where the two biggest factions fought over Earth which was at the time completely devoid of the valuable minerals which they normally fought over. The teacher explains that at the time those two factions were fighting for the symbol that Earth represents. The two factions both claim to be the original descendants of the government that originally united all of mankind and both wish to do so again under their banner. Owning Earth would strengthen that claim which unfortunately let to Earths destruction. At this time orbital bombardment is forbidden by all factions due to the harmful radiation it leaves behind.

Now at this time, whether or not the girl talks to the teacher or not, the antagonist looks very uncomfortable or even annoyed. When asked he answers how the teacher can comfortably talk about war like that now that the planet they're on is currently under blockade.

There's no such thing as a negative feedback if you can learn something from it so I appreciate your comments.

*Edit*

Now that I think about it. Adding that question might actually be a good idea since it would introduce two of the main factions in the game.

Ever read Ghost In The Shell? Anything by Masamune Shirow? The guy's day job is college professor; his graphic novels are some of the most profusely expositional stories around. He goes into depth about philosophy, politics, history, technology, etc etc etc.

But does he ever begin his graphic novels with a classroom lecturing on philosophy, politics, history, technology, etc etc etc? Never. He always begins with what he knows the readers are there for. Then he mixes in all his lecturing into the plot itself.

If you use the classroom scene, you cannot go more than 3/4 of the page before your characters ask the teacher mouthpiece their personal emotive questions. The reader must arrive at page 1's end thinking "OK now the characters I'll actually care about have started talking... we're moving on to the real story now... I have a reason to go on to page 2." If you end the first page with the teacher mouthpiece still droning, you've failed.

Actually yes I have read Ghost In The Shell. I also saw the movie. Good stuff indeed.

But to the matter at hand... Would you consider it more acceptable of a scene if an prologue were introduced first. Say.... an old crashed alien vessel being discovered by human scouts while on a reckon. Surely that would get peoples attention. Also if I keep the speech heavily infused with visual aid like kyupol suggests then it shouldn't bore anyone tragically would it? I assume that the speech would fill up 2-3 pages + the hole page of earth, judging the way I visualize the page setup. Adding 1-2 more pages to that if I have the girl ask that question.

I have seen many examples of the main character not being introduced in the first few pages then all of a sudden is revealed. I think if I can get people past the first few pages I should be able to get loyal readers out of them.

http://www.drunkduck.com/The_Devon_Legacy_Prologue/index.php?p=256175
Perhaps you can use a page setup such as what I did in the link above to explain most everything.

Make your establishing shots on top with the teacher talking. Overlay the teacher on top of everything.

Combine your visual references around the teacher and also you could have your main characters talking to other students or each other to start bringing interest toward those characters.

Maybe split one side of the teacher with visual references and the other side with what is going on in actual class.

That is if you absolutely want to tell much of this information.

You know what might work? If you do the prologue scene (I'm reminded of the Starcraft opening cinema), and while the space jockeys with hick accents are bantering back and forth about pornos, sports, and their hot cousins, your expositional narrative drones on in the background. The old "grease the narrative with action" trick.

Static visual aids without character action is still boring. A whole splash page filled with text will be boring no matter how detailed a page of Earth (or city, or spaceport, or ship) you draw in the background. You can ease the narrative from the recon action to the classroom for the tail end of the narrative lecture. But only with the expressed purpose of leading to the characters asking their questions.

Heh.. Space hicks crack me up.

But I am actually thinking of a way to make the visual aid exciting. Sure pictures of cities and spaceports and even ships can be dull if nothings going on but the topic of discussion is war. How about if we show the duel between the aspiring clan leaders, the conflict between the tribes, roman armies, warfare through the ages. Putting such dramatic visuals might however stretch the narration, covering more pages though since we wouldn't be able to put much text in each page.

Gosh darn it. I love tossing ideas.

Oh and thanks for the input JustNoPoint. I like that page of yours.

Yeah, sure, it can work. Provided your art is absolutely awesome. If you want epic panels to work, the art skill on display had better be up to the task.

There is still 1 problem with that approach: None of those panels described showcase any characters or settings or actions relevant to your story.

From my experience-start with a dead guy.
Or sex. (esp. boobs)
Or crying.
Or some other emotion grabbing element.
You have to. It sounds like pandering, but there are so many bazillions of other webcomics that if you don't connect with the readers is some sort of human way right off the bat, it will take a while to get noticed.

~B

mlai. Well you can never say it's perfect. The art department can so not be handled by me either. The best I can do is doodling the same guy over and over again, with a bland non emotional face, standing in a upright position. That's where I need the biggest amount of help. I need someone who wants to commit with me on this.

That will probably mean that this particular story won't be made for a while. 'Till then I'll have to settle with a smaller scale story.

I think that not having any main characters introduced in the prologue is acceptable though I understand your concerns about the first few pages. But if you think that's bad then I'll have to tell you about this other story that I came up with where a group of heroes go on a quest but it turns out to be so perilous that a lot of the heroes kept being killed of. New members joined the team but before I knew it, none of the original characters where left. It was about then I realized I had taken a wrong turn somewhere. ^^

iowabarbidoll. Would naughty sex jokes work?

Boy! I hope my Avatar won't make me look like a sellout. That would make that scene even more obvious.

Miai is absolutely correct.
To be perfectly honest I didn't even finish reading your synopsis the first time (I went back and read it just now).
The universe you are trying to create will naturally emerge piece by piece as your story progresses. Just get straight into the main characters with some kind of drama. The universe will explain itself. This will keep your readers wanting more.

Last night I figured it out how the classroom scene could work. The teachers speech is in the background while the main character is introduced. For example a classmate could be whispering to him about the last nights sport game or something while the teacher is rambling around. The main character however is not interested in listening to either of them like something is troubling him. This leads to the teacher asking what could be more interesting than his seminar. Then the main character asks the question which I already mentioned above(the blockade one).That way the reader can naturally boycott the speech like cartoonprofessor here.

Worst case scenario is of course that I chuck the hole beginning and think of something else. It's a really cool story in the long run.

Btw Mlai. I got a chance to look at your Fight.1 and 2 cartoon. It's pretty nice. I have no idea who some of these characters that you have in them are though I recognize few.

Don't give away your secrets! You shouldn't have given away as much as you have. Shoulda jes said you wanted someone to draw your story lol. But I have to agree with mlai and disagree. I did Mercs to start with a fight so I could do some action and all, but I don't regret the decision, but I don't love it either you know? Just do what feels right. Sometimes that means pushing children in front of trains and sometimes it mean editing your story.

So you're not going to work in that space salvage scene? Your intro is so long that it can still fit in. And it does abate the classroom boredom. My opinion of a classroom being boring still stands.

Unless it's some hyper-futuristic classroom where the students are levitating in mid-air working with 3D control panels and the teacher is some monolithic hologram in the center of a cavernous missile silo.

Don't take it from me. Read all about it below at TV Tropes:
TV Tropes: "but this is something that shouldn't go on for too long as it's terribly dull to watch." opening 2 pages a lot (down at SmackJeeves).

I was in a class like that once. I failed and got sent to hell. And here I am!

I think that the space scouts are a good idea actually. I sets up the things to come quite nicely.

About the classroom.... I still find it neat but I may spice it up or change the opening monologue or finally ditch it and think of something else... or maybe I say bollocks to all and do whatever I feel like. :P

Sidwarrious doesn't need to worry about me giving everything away. There's so much more to this story then just the first act. It will have nice action scenes but also bit of talking and conversations so maybe it would bore people who only want action. I also think there are enough people not checking the forums and only looking at the comics for it not to matter that I give out more info over here than the standard star wars fly by intro. finally I like to point out that unless a good artist teams up with me very soon this story is not going to be drawn for a while and all of this will be gone deep into the old archives.

What are you trying to accomplish with posting plot summaries? Dry plot points don't show ppl whether you can tell an engaging story or not. All they do is spoil the story.

In that case, since I got such negative response from the act 1. plot posts, I've decided to remove them.

Now what I was trying to accomplish mlai was exactly what you said I wasn't doing. I decided to spoil this particular story, or at least the beginning of it because it's not a high priority story of mine. Whenever I get an artist to work with me, I was going to start on completely different story. One that I'm keeping my lip sealed on. I figured why not introduce myself to the community and see how they'd react to a sample of what I can write. I can't draw myself, like I've mentioned so many times before, nor do I have any scanners or fancy artist programs to assist me short of "paint".

Since I'm failing so much in displaying an engaging storyline then by all means give me an example what you consider to be the right way.

You misread me. I said that dry plot points, i.e. a plot summary, cannot show anyone whether or not you can write a good story. So it's pointless to post it.

Take your fav novel of all time. Reduce it to an outline of Who What When Where. Now it's just a telephone book.

MY telephone books don't give me whens! Not even whats! And half the wheres are lies! Secret gov't lies!

You guys needs to stop bickering over this. Maybe his dry story will be good once it's on paper and all comic'd out?

Sidwarrious
Maybe his dry story will be good once it's on paper and all comic'd out?

Isn't that what I said?

Someone
Since I'm failing so much in displaying an engaging storyline then by all means give me an example what you consider to be the right way.

Post a short story you've written in this subforum and ask for opinions.

Or post a fully scripted-out chapter or scene in this subforum and ask for opinions. This must be in comic book script standard format.

@Product Placement

Your story so far sounds cool. If I were you tho... yep like what somebody said here dont reveal it too much in the forums.

I know... I had that URGE to do it for my MAG-ISA comic. Because when I was working on its script, I was doing around chapter 4 of BK. I soooo wanted to spill out the whole damn story on the forums. Because deep inside I had this feeling that this comic IS THE BEST COMIC I ever made in my webcomic 'career'... since at the back of my mind, Brood Knight is 'juvenile' (less intelligence value) because it was written by an angsty 18 year old... and MAG-ISA has 'more intelligence' than any other comic I've done in the past.

But anyway... yeah if I spilled out the entire script of MAG-ISA, I bet I'd be lectured here and there too about how my plot sux shit and I should do this and do that... maybe I'd be getting more of it than you... since I admit your story posted so far sounds written by somebody older than 25. Yeah so I'd be getting more flak about it lol! Since these forums have slammed almost every comic (check comic review section and see how comics get crushed... lol).

Though remember... that there ARE people who would criticize your stuff because of jealousy. Because they can't write a story like that.

And also remember... no matter how "dumb" a comic may be... there is always always always somebody or a few people who will think it kicks ass. And you never know. I've seen "dumb" comics (no mentioning I dont wanna start shit here) get the popularity and hits I've only dreamed of and I'd probably NEVER attain. :(


---
And good luck with your story. Just to let you know you got 1 fan (me) and I'd be looking forward to it.

kyupol
But anyway... yeah if I spilled out the entire script of MAG-ISA, I bet I'd be lectured here and there too about how my plot sux shit and I should do this and do that... maybe I'd be getting more of it than you... since I admit your story posted so far sounds written by somebody older than 25. Yeah so I'd be getting more flak about it lol! Since these forums have slammed almost every comic (check comic review section and see how comics get crushed... lol).

Though remember... that there ARE people who would criticize your stuff because of jealousy. Because they can't write a story like that.

WTF Kyupol, you talkin' to me? I'd have to assume so, b/c I'm the only one here giving him a detailed opinion, and no one else has been as critical.

But if that comment is directed at me, then you're misreading me even more than he had.

I'll repeat: You can't determine someone's writing skills by reading dry plot points. That goes for both good and bad. You take the best novel in the world, reduce it to dry plot points, and it becomes nothing.

So my point to him was, stop wasting time posting nothing. If he really wanted to show off his writing skills, he needs to either post complete prose or a standard format script.

Where in that did I criticize his story or writing? There was nothing to criticize (see above)!

(The discussion regarding opening scenes is a separate matter.)

mlai
WTF Kyupol, you talkin' to me? I'd have to assume so, b/c I'm the only one here giving him a detailed opinion, and no one else has been as critical.

But if that comment is directed at me, then you're misreading me even more than he had.

I'll repeat: You can't determine someone's writing skills by reading dry plot points. That goes for both good and bad. You take the best novel in the world, reduce it to dry plot points, and it becomes nothing.

So my point to him was, stop wasting time posting nothing. If he really wanted to show off his writing skills, he needs to either post complete prose or a standard format script.

Where in that did I criticize his story or writing? There was nothing to criticize (see above)!

(The discussion regarding opening scenes is a separate matter.)

Ok... a misunderstanding. And maybe another indication I've been talking too much in the forums and I'm getting in the line of fire... er... flames. lol!

omg I gotta get a life these days... :(

Ok mlai... I get it now. (see bolded words) :)

Hello again. I've been away from my computer and that is my pathetic excuse for not answering earlier.

I am getting a much better idea now how the story posting on this forum works. If and when I try again I'll either think of a short story to impress your shoes off or fiddle with a chapter from this one since I've started on it.

Don't think that I'm taking your criticism harshly mlai. I appreciate that you took the time to discuss this with me. You've definitely been the most active poster here. I admit I was annoyed when I tried to speed up my tale with plot points after being criticized for writing to much info and having that backfire on me but I've only myself to blame for that.

kyupol. You don't know how often I had to fight that urge. If you had read this post earlier you'd have seen the entire arc 1 of this story before I deleted it. Long time ago I was a DM at a D&D game and I created such a captivating story for my players that they fell in love with it. The problem was that we met about once a week and played out such a small portion of the tale each time. It was a torture on me because I wanted to tell them what happened next. The funny thing was that I sucked as a DM. I didn't know how the magic system worked properly and I always had the team fight 1 really powerful guy instead of many challenging ones like you're supposed to do and so on. In the end they were just continuing on for the story and we didn't even manage to finish it after a whole year of playing. :( I've been thinking of incorporating that story into a comic btw. Must resist.... the urge.... to tell.... you.... more....

I'm obviously late in the discussion here by my take on this would be quite counter to something a little more lively. Being that I think with a mind for action but crave plots I like to keep the two as closely together as possible.

I like the start as a class room lecture. It's informative. We as humans are curious creatures and like learning. Thus why we can have so many channels on cable revolving around some encompassing theme. The History Channel, The Discovery Channel, Animal Planet.

But lets be logical about this. We're also horribly impressionable and easily distracted. We need that pretty shiney to hold our attention.

So.

In lieu of Discovery's weapons of war, Animal Planets Shark Week and so on...I'd try something more like this...

As the Teacher begins his narrative, the page would look like this...


A small page wide box is made for just his portrait and dialog.

Below him are a series of boxes showing the evolution of your world. From the Cavemen fighting, to the fighter planes of the industrial revolution and so on.

You still keep the weight of your words, but you simply provide a better visual than a bunch of people in school.

Lets face it, most of those kids would rather be there when it happened than sitting there listening to a guy drone on about it.

You can expect the same reaction from your audience. Don't just tell them what happened....show them breif snippets of it to drive home your point.

Hope that helps.