Black Kitty
My favourite artist is Marcel DuChamp and he invented the readymades, which were basically everyday objects chosen by the artist as art. So he had things like a bicycle wheel bolted to a stool, a snow shovel, a hat rack, etc. Most people I know dislike the readymades and think the only reason why DuChamp did them was because he had no skills (which ignores all the paintings he did prior to the readymades.)

Recent research however have suggested that DuChamp wasn't being completely truthful about his readymades. He may not have actually gone to a store and randomly picked mass manufactured objects to be art pieces. He may have made the objects and then pretended they were everyday objects that he just happened to have chosen as art. Which isn't that unusual since some of his past works have hinted at him being very good at forgery.

Love the Marcel. I just heard that bit about the readymades the other day. It's interesting to think about it from his point of view, though; I really think (if that's true, anyway) he got a huge kick out of the reaction to his "found art" all these years.

On a side note, I've always found it kind of odd that people that make found-art objects these days cite DuChamp as a key figure when Schwitters took it a million times farther. :/

subcultured
I think some of the best artists are self taught. writing an essay about old painters is pointless to me. And i hate those art pieces with just a square, doodling, and abstract. its crap to me, i dont get why they are being bought by museums.

Making statements that qualify one group over another don't interest me. There are good trained artists and good self-taught artists. I've always felt that artists who trained themselves initially and were able to put aside reservations and go through formal classes got the best of both worlds, as far as an understanding of their internal/personal method on top of the professional process.

Wowee, comments on avant-gaurde art from almost 100 years ago. hehe. Typical art student stuff . :lol:
Damn that Duchamp! When I was studying art so many lazy students "produced" Duchamp inspired artworks. -I did a few myself actually- :oops:

But the irony of his famous works was of course that they were actually a joke on art itself, pieces of deliberite anti-art. How typically depressing that they came to be exactly what they parrodied, and ultimately to help define the course of fine-art from then on.
Ah-well, such is life.

The fine-art scene and being "artistic" and skilled doesn't always match. It's like politics, intelligence and education, those things don't always go together even though you think they'd be a natural match.

oz is back :D

Yep! Hiya Sub!
I'll have to look at the forums to see what I can but in on...

Typical art student stuff .

Kinda funny considering he's a lawyer.

.: isukun :.

Heh, he could be my mum and I'd still say the same thing. From my experience I deveolped that association Iskun. ^_^

=/ I self-learned a lot through online tutorials since 13.. which explains why my art sucks.. but i like to think i'm improving. :-D

I have had no training whatsoever,

I just doodle on paper and eventually started doing this on ms paint.

a b average in hyschool art class and a hlot how to draw books

I've been drawing for a while, but I haven't had art lessons of any kind since my second year of secondary school, I picked music instead for third year.

Apart from that, I guess I just learned from other artworks/animations, online tutorials and good old-fashioned experimentation. :)

Well... I passed that art test on the Instruction School for the Arts thing that you see on TV.

hat
Well... I passed that art test on the Instruction School for the Arts thing that you see on TV.

was it "enjoyable"?

Not really you just like draw a face and fill out a few questions.

I've never had formal training outside of the mandatory elementary school art class (Does that count? I learned how to make pinch pots and that the sky is not just a line at the top of the page, but is supposed to extend all the way down to the horizon.) For the most part, I've just doodled in the margins of my notebooks (So I have done a lot of artwork in school -- but again, I don't think that counts.) I didn't start to get "good" at anything until a friend of mine talked me into drawing a webcomic for them in college (It has long since disappeared from the internet) and I learned to draw the same characters more than once.

And that's my artistic autobiography.

hmm lessee: standard art classes in elementary school
didn't take the art elective in intermediate school (I opted for espanol!)
high school: I took foundations in art freshman year (full year)
studio art in sophomore year (half year)
*no art classes* junior year (depressing!)
Pottery (aka death; half year); Drawing (half year); Painting (half year) in senior year

but none of those classes really *did* anything for me. Most of my art I did at home. I guess it wasn't their fault, though; I mean, class was only like 45 minutes a day...

then college!!

Painting I~ full year freshman year
Drawing I~ half year sophomore year

painting I, by the lovely genius awesome professor Lisa Blas, taught me any and everything ever. she was the best professor ever ever ever, and she was really awesome as a person too; honestly I had drawn so much during high school that I had a lot of practice under my belt, so I wasn't *bad*... but... after I was through with her class I could draw and paint photorealistically... I remember, one of the paintings I did first semester was of my brother, and it was pretty big (life-sized for him) and my (now dead v_v) grandfather was leaving the house and he thought the painting was my brother, haha... he wasn't senile though!!
Drawing I was not good. I did some good stuff, but that was cause I had taken painting -_-.
so that's my art-schooling!
I guess I've had more training than a lot of people, but I'm good at stuff like charcoal, oils, watercolors, etc.... not photoshop or dipping ink or toning! and definitely not cartoons, XD!

Formal Art Training...
hmmm...
Well, when I was in the Institutional Learning Facility as required by Law, I passed most of the time drawing, especially in Math Class.
I would learn much more outside of school with travel and alot of visits to the Library.

How Experienced am I?

If this were a game of AD&D...I could probably hold my own against Tiamat.
At least for a few rounds.
Not to brag, I just have had my share of Victories and Losses in that Department.


Its when you lose that makes you a Mean Hungry Bastard...

Loss...it keeps your gut raw.

Just keep your fire in your Belly.

I know enough to realise that I know Nothing.

Well, I hesitated to fess up here, since Life on the Fringe is so "cartoony" and not always very well drawn, but I have a BFA in painting, drawing, and photography. In college I took 4 semesters of painting, 3 semesters of figure drawing, 4 semesters of various photography classes, 3 of printmaking, and 1 of sculpture, ceramics, and illustration, plus an independent study in illustration. Plus various foundation art classes and art history classes.

If you want to see my more artistically interesting work check out Shot Attention Span Comics.

I had one class in eigth grade... I could have used more.

In high school I took every art class, including AP art, ceramics, studio art, 3d studio art, etc. I was sort of sloppy in all my work, but I loved really dark charcoal still life. I was much better at sculpture than 2D stuff. Dropped it all in college. (My "formal education" for the past six years has been nothing but biology and chemistry.)

Art classes are probably useful, but practice is very useful too. Especially down the line when you forget your "basic principles," and the memory is in your hands and not your brain.

I've taken all of the art classes my high school has to offer, plus an independent study this year and an online AP Art History this year. Last summer I studied for five weeks under the conceptual artist Siobhan Byrns, who is amazing.

Mostly I'm self taught, though. I pick things up pretty quickly, and absorb information (especially visual info) easily.

I'm planning on majoring in Studio Art in college.

I failed fundamentals of drawing in college. That was the only art class I took really except for a neat design class.

I don't have lessons. My art teacher at school just tells me what to draw and I draw it. That's not teaching! That's more like a command! REBEL!!! >:D

I'm currently a student at the Savannah College of Art and Design's Sequential Art program (ie, the comics program), formerly a Graphic Design student at University of North Florida. It's OMGOMG amazing here at SCAD. Of course, we have to take the same asstastic foundations courses that every art student takes (DrawI, DrawII, DesI, DesII, Color Theory,etc) but the sequential classes are droolworthy. I'm taking Storyboarding and History of Sequential this quarter, and they are wonderful classes. Next semester I'm taking Pencilling & Inking for Comicbooks I. For my senior project (which will be winter quarter 2009)I'm going to do a manga project for Rising Stars of Manga :D Its great to be able to take classes in the actual field of art that I want to spend my life doing, although the stuff I learned from Graphic Design was pretty useful too XD

A lot of people complain that art teachers don't really 'teach' a whole lot, they just talk a little and then tell you to draw something. But, art is largely a self-learning experience, its almost something you have to learn entirely by doing. There's that big leap between theory and actuality. So when a teacher says "draw an apple and a banana five times a day every day for the whole semester" (drawing II sketchbook :D) they're basically trying to break you of the habit of drawing what you think you see instead of drawing what's really there. Sure, the teacher could just explain to you that you have to draw light and shadow to form the shape of the apple, and not just outline an apple, but actually DOING a zillion drawings will teach you that 5 times better. Some teachers will always be better at the 'explaining concepts' part than others, but I would be hard pressed to blame a teacher if I didn't learn SOMETHING useful from a class. You really get what you put into a class. If you do the assignments, in all likely hood you'll learn something, or at least improve some from the practice.

That said, I think you can learn just as much from self-teaching as you can from a formal class. You learn as much as the time you're willing to put into your self-teaching. What teachers are really great for is critique (although with places like cgtalk, epilogue, and concept art around for pro level advice, maybe not so important anymore) and time management skills. Where if you're drawing for yourself, there aren't any 'real' (ie, money) consequences for lateness, you're at risk of failing if you're late with stuff for your art classes. I dunno about you, but I'd take it pretty srsly if I was going to lose an assload of money that I paid my college for not turning in a couple assignments on time. And in the real world, you'd lose your job - which is also losing money. So learning time management is one of those important things that college FORCES you to do. Some people don't have a problem with time management, but people (like me) need an extra push to learn how to organize and schedule things.

That said, if you're planning on living off of your art, art classes can be invaluable. If not, then perhaps they aren't so important. Not saying that you have to go to art school or what not to succeed in being a working artist, as there are obviously loads of self-taught people who are far more capable at drawing than I am, but it can definitely give you an edge. I highly suggest SCAD to anyone serious about being a comic book artist. :3 At least two people from TokyoPOP in the last couple years have come from SCAD, countless people with other publishers (including marvel, dc, top cow, archie, SLG and arcana).

As for how experienced I am personally..well, I do cons and stuff, and I do fairly all right in sales. I've self-published before. I was recently offered a contract from a small publisher (who I'm going to turn down cause their contract is asking for my soul and my first born - which I need at least one of those two things),and I'm going to a portfolio review with the people from TokyoPop next weekend at my schools Editor's Day fest thing. Maybe I'll talk to some of the other guys who're going to be there too, but I have work that day so I dunno if I'll have the time exactly XD; I'm kinda pushing it as it stands.

Anyways, sorry if that was a long convoluted set of paragraphs, just thought I'd throw my thoughts in @_@;

Well, I took art classes in high school, which were.. well, high school art classes. Most of what I learned up until college was self taught.

I went to college for Graphic Design and discovered halfway through that I absolutely hate graphic design. I graduated with the degree but took classes that gave me a focus in illustration (traditional and digital).

I looked at SCAD and I like them a lot, but DAMN they're expensive. Like $50,000 a year. That's a bit much. I dunno, I'll probably still aplly there depending on how my portfolio is come senior year.

I've talked to pros though and they seem to recommend the Kubert School for Comics/Cinematic Animation above all else. A large majority of the pros working in comics went there.

ccs1989
I looked at SCAD and I like them a lot, but DAMN they're expensive. Like $50,000 a year. That's a bit much. I dunno, I'll probably still aplly there depending on how my portfolio is come senior year.

I've talked to pros though and they seem to recommend the Kubert School for Comics/Cinematic Animation above all else. A large majority of the pros working in comics went there.

I was just in Savannah and I couldn't help but lust after that college. But you're right they are expensive and I think overly so for an art degree. My opinion when it comes to art and degrees which may be wrong but has gotten me this far is it's what's in your portfolio and head that counts, not what's so much on your slip of paper.

Now I'd love to go to Kubert. I never found out where it was though.

ccs1989
I looked at SCAD and I like them a lot, but DAMN they're expensive. Like $50,000 a year. That's a bit much. I dunno, I'll probably still aplly there depending on how my portfolio is come senior year.

I've talked to pros though and they seem to recommend the Kubert School for Comics/Cinematic Animation above all else. A large majority of the pros working in comics went there.

SCAD is actually $36,000 a year if you're living on campus int he nicest dormitory avaiblable - which is an apartment. So I don't know where $50K/year came from. XD

Plus, SCAD offers portfolio scholarships - I get $12,000 a year, and when I submit a new portfolio I can probably get even more - up to $15,000 a year. If you're a Georgia resident I believe you also get some kinda scholarship, plus there's government grants and so forth. My first two years of college were almost free because in Florida I had a 75% tuition scholarship, federal grants, and some scholarships from my school. :3 At SCAD about half of my school costs are covered by grants and scholarships, and I think that's pretty good.

I don't really know anything about the Kubert school XD but I know that two people hired by TokyoPop in the last two or three years have come from SCAD, and TPop is really who I want to work for.

junoblairb
I was just in Savannah and I couldn't help but lust after that college. But you're right they are expensive and I think overly so for an art degree. My opinion when it comes to art and degrees which may be wrong but has gotten me this far is it's what's in your portfolio and head that counts, not what's so much on your slip of paper.

Now I'd love to go to Kubert. I never found out where it was though.

Art degrees and art schools are always much more expensive than regular schools because they're a specialized field o_- You definitely don't have to go to art school, but it does give you a certain advantage. I believe that while a portfolio is what will get you attention, if you have a degree WITH your portfolio that says to potential clients that you'll be able to produce this excellent level of work in an adequate amount of time, you already know all the lingo/basics of the job (for example, you know how to draw camera motions and so forth for storyboards), that you're dedicated enough to bother seeking an education in the field, plus you'll have references from your teachers who were at one time industry pros (or, in many cases, they still are), saying that you're a fast/good/hard worker, etc. A degree is only a leg up - its like a time saver for companies, cause they can trust that if you have a degree you can do the job, they don't have to train you as much, or what not - and time is money.

At SCAD we have something called JobMagnet where the college actually submits your work to various companies for you, my roommate already had two small jobs through the jobmagnet. I've been hired to do a logo/design job for a website company. It's very cool, and gives you something more to add to your resume for future jobs. Plus, like I mentioned earlier, we have editor's day where reps from Oni, Tpop, Marvel, DC, Top Shelf review students work and take submissions, etc. (I'm sure Kubert school does plenty of the same stuff, though :3)

My art training consists of 10 years of school art classes (9 of which were utterly useless... I didn't learn much in that kindergarten class) and that's it. No outside edification, just lots of practice.

Hmmmm . . . where to start, where to start . . . well, I was born in a log cabin and I - eh? Moi, off-topic - already? Damn!

I am within a gnat's whisker of reaching my fiftieth birthday, and I have dabbled in aspects of art, one way or another, for most of my life; and my artistic/creative/and crafts/skills related dabbling run the gamut from writing to martial arts training, from wood carving to furniture making, from old-fashioned graphic arts to computer graphics work and - to be ruthlessly honest with myself - there are a great many DrunkDuck regulars who easily blow me out of the water with their fantastic art skills. But I think that's sorta cool, actually.

But for all of the above I confess that I spent much of my life too lazy - or too intimidated by the task - to approach graphic arts studies in any sort of disciplined and consistent manner. Until recently, that is. For the last eleven months I have done just about nothing with my spare time but cover yellow legal pads with sequential art related - um - well, I guess I would be forced to call the results art. Ahem!

Formal art training? Zero, zip, nadda. Books? Have I got a library of expensive art books for you! You name it, I've got it - or at least a casual glance at my shelves would so suggest - I've got books on artistic perspective, anatomy, drawing, cartooning, painting, and, and, and . . . one hell of a lot of more of the same.

Now, how much of this have I actually sat down and read and studied?

Um . . . some, but not nearly as much as I wish I had done in previous years. Sigh!

So, after nearly a year's worth of intense daily work on the fundamentals of graphic art, what's my self-diagnosis? Damn me but I have improved something fierce! Whoa! This artist is hot baby!

Really? Yeah, sort of, to some extent - well, compared to my former skill level, you bet.

That's my primary point here. Hah! I'll bet you didn't think I had one! Formal art training will imprint upon the artist things that self-teaching will not . Flat out, formal teaching is very helpful IF you bring with you the patience to learn and study and an open mind.

But, on the other hand, the self-study, self-teaching approach will allow you to avoid the dreaded 'Real Artists Never Do This' pollution of creative perceptions. Or as I like to pigeon-hole the phenomenon . . . "If you do not know that it can't be done, you frequently discover that you have managed to do it!" positive side-effect of being self-taught.

There you have it, the plus and minuses of both approaches to learning.

It's a regrettable fact of formal training in any field that you WILL be told that certain things cannot - or should not- be done . Nonetheless, formal training rocks because then all you have to do is keep an open mind - the false starts, the worries that you are 'getting it' wrong, the producing stuff without experienced criticism available, is simply side-stepped.

Myself? I'm too set in my ways at this point to take a formal class in graphic art, but I might very well teach such a course in my local community college or leisure learning program some day. Such is irony.

Charleyhorse

I have none that is from classes. I took some classes in my schools but......it didn't really help. They just said go draw. Or tell me what to draw. It didn't really help. I guess I can say I had 8 years of self experience.