I have actually never played FFT ever. And Final Fantasy 12 was the worst Final Fantasy so far.

So would I actually like this game? And what FFT actually are there and on what consoles? Just seems strange I've never bought a copy.

Bekefel
I have actually never played FFT ever. And Final Fantasy 12 was the worst Final Fantasy so far.
So would I actually like this game? And what FFT actually are there and on what consoles? Just seems strange I've never bought a copy.

FFT is a TBS game. Like X-com... or Tactics Ogre... or Jagged Alliance. With Square's trademark flexible Job System.

It's plot setting is a Shakespearean drama, and its plot convolutions are on the order of political thriller novels. If you become interested in the plot, you will be referring to the game's journal menu many times.

It's out for the PS1 and for the PSP. The PSP has the same battle graphics, but has rewritten (and better) dialogue, a few extra character classes and new side characters, a few new scenes, and has artistic new FMV cutscenes.

The PSP version has increased the game difficulty.

And then there's Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, which has a great job system and gameplay, except with stupid add-ons with the Judge System and a story that seems like a practical joke compared to the PS Tactics.

Inkmonkey
And then there's Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, which has a great job system and gameplay, except with stupid add-ons with the Judge System and a story that seems like a practical joke compared to the PS Tactics.

I loved that game. The story was shit though. I mean come on, you're going to destroy Final Fantasy world just because the other guy likes it more than the real world? What a dick.

@mlai: I'm nowhere near the ending yet, but I saw a picture on the internet of Delita hugging Ovelia amidst the ruins of the church meaning the after-the-credits ending is an FMV. That means the entire thing will fully animated and voice acted so it should be an even more powerful scene that what I remember.

Anyways, for those that want a taste of the new script, here's a scene from the original version and the PSP version. I chose the scene from Dorter City (Chapter 1) because it's still pretty early in the game and it's a pivotal scene for Argath's (once Algus) character development as well as Delita's and Ramza's.

ORIGINAL PS1 VERSION
An Abandoned Building


ALGUS: You must be the Death Corps. Where is the Marquis? Where is he being held? Tell us!! Your boss, Wiegraf, was just here. Where did he go!? Y, you bastard! Say something!!

RAMZA: Stop! Algus!
ALGUS: Damn. ...Listen carefully. In a moment, the Hokuten will begin to slaughter you. That's right. Each of you're going straight to hell. Being a thief sure pays, huh? But you're lucky. You tell us where Wiegraf is going, and I'll let you live, OK?
FENCER OF THE DEATH CORPS: I don't know a damn thing.

ALGUS: Watch your language! Never talk to nobles like that!

FENCER: We're... not thieves.
ALGUS: What did you say!?
FENCER: ...Nobles never change. You think we aren't human. We risk our lives in the War for this country... But you dumped us afterward. How are we different? Birth? Status? What the hell's rank?
ALGUS: You kidnap people for ransom! So don't act so great!!
FENCER: ...Kidnapping the Marquis was not Mr. Wiegraf's plan.
ALGUS: !?
FENCER: We'd never kidnap a VIP... for money...
RAMZA: Then, who? Who kidnapped Elmdor?
FENCER: ...
ALGUS: Talk! If it wasn't you, then who else would do it?
FENCER: ...Gustav.
ALGUS: Gustav? Who the hell is he?
DELITA: Gustav Margueriff. Captain of the "Death Corps".
ALGUS: So it WAS you all!

FENCER: No. We're fighting to beat you! We're proud that we fight for equality... We're different from Gustav!

ALGUS: Proud? Bastards!!
RAMZA: Enough, Algus!

ALGUS: So, where is this Gustav?
FENCER: ..."Sand Rat Cellar".
ALGUS: Sand ra-a-a-ts?
DELITA: Algus may not know what they are since he's not from here. "Sand Rats" only inhabit the Zeklaus Desert north of Dorter.
ALGUS: !?
RAMZA: Was there a village between Dorter and Zeklaus Desert?
DELITA: Not anymore. But there is a place where desert people used to gather...
RAMZA: ...Gustav and the Marquis may be there.
DELITA: Yes, probably.
ALGUS: [to Ramza} What's that mean??
RAMZA: "Cellar" means a rat's nest.
ALGUS: !?


PSP REMAKE

ARGATH: We know you're of the Brigade. There's no use hiding it. Out with it! What have you done with the marquis? Where are you holding him?

ARGATH: You were with your commander, Wiegraf, when we came upon you. Where has he gone?
ARGATH: Mayhap a beating would loosen your tongue!

RAMZA: Enough, Argath!
ARGATH: Hmph. Listen well. A great host, with the Order at its van, prepares a sweeping campaign that will bring to book your turncloak Brigade. You will die. You will be hunted down to the last and slaughtered like the swine you are, for such is brigandry's reward. But you, pig, are a lucky one. Tell us what we wish to know, and you may yet keep your bacon. So, where is Wiegraf?
SWORDSMAN: How the bloody hell should I know?

ARGATH: I'll not bear your ribald tongue, rogue! Learn to guard it, if you'd not have it cut from your throat!
SWORDSMAN: I am no... no rogue.
ARGATH: Tell that to the men you've robbed!
SWORDSMAN: You nobles... all the same. You think every man... born outside a castle's walls... less than human. We fought for this kingdom at peril of our very lives. Yet the moment the war was ended... you turned us out into the streets. What do you think makes you so special? Birth? Blood? What difference does it make?
ARGATH: You kidnap men for ransom, then dare ask the difference between us!?
SWORDSMAN: No... the marquis's kidnapping was... no plan of Wiegraf's.
ARGATH:...?
SWORDSMAN: He would never... hold a man for ransom.
RAMZA: Then who? Someone kidnapped the marquis Elmdore de Limberry.
SWORDSMAN:...
ARGATH: Speak! If not you, then on whom would you pin the deed?
SWORDSMAN: It was Gustav.
ARGATH: Who is Gustav?
DELITA: Gustav Margriff-- lieutenant commander of the Dead Men.
ARGATH: So the Corpse Brigade -was- behind the kidnapping!

SWORDSMAN: No! We're not like Gustav! We fight to end the aristocracy, not to become it! To be treated as equals-- as the men of honor we are!

ARGATH: What do maggots know of honor?
RAMZA: That's enough, Argath!

ARGATH: So where is this "Gustav"?
SWORDSMAN: In...in the Sand Rat's Sietch.
ARGATH: Sand rat?
DELITA: You are not of Gallionne-- small wonder you've not heard of them. Sand rats are unique to the Zeklaus Desert, north of Dorter.
ARGATH:...?
RAMZA: Do any villages lie between here and the desert?
DELITA: Villages? No. At least, not anymore. But the desertmen once had a settlement on the outskirts, and it's ruins remain.
RAMZA: Then that's where we'll find Gustav and the marquis.
DELITA: Aye, like as not.
ARGATH: How can you be so certain?
RAMZA: A "sietch" is a sand rat's burrow--his home.
ARGATH:...?


Yeah, as you can see, the new translation fleshes out the ambiguous questionable sentences and it makes the dialog much more adult sounding. Example comparison:

OLD

FENCER: No. We're fighting to beat you! We're proud that we fight for equality... We're different from Gustav!

NEW

SWORDSMAN: No! We're not like Gustav! We fight to end the aristocracy, not to become it! To be treated as equals-- as the men of honor we are!

OLD

ALGUS: You kidnap people for ransom! So don't act so great!!

NEW

ARGATH: You kidnap men for ransom, then dare ask the difference between us!?

The FMV scene of Delita and Ovelia hugging is prolly of that earlier scene, when Delita promised to protect her and she flung herself into his arms.

Did you find Mushishi?

So, have you played Ico before? Shadow of Colossus? Heart of Darkness?

Yeah, I have all three of those games. I snatched them up the day they came out. I didn't even know about Ico until I played a demo about a month before the release date and was hooked immediately.

I found Mushishi but it was volume 2. I didn't do any research beforehand (otherwise I would have known that none of the episodes are connected except a few recurring characters) so I didn't buy it but I'll probably get it tomorrow.

I found this really awesome comic book anthology called Flight. There's four volumes right now but it collects short stories from young or unheard of artists from all over the world. Almost all of the stories deal with the inner strengths and weaknesses of a set characters and most of them have a lot of crazy experimental art and there's a few who've expanded on some artists styles like one guy who's work would probably put Studio Ghibli to shame. It's published by Ballantine books so it's available at any major bookstore.

I also picked up Fate/Stay Night vol 1. Haven't watched it yet but will do so tonight.

One of the things I found most charming about the original Tactics was the sprite animated cutscenes. The new rendered and fully voiced cutscenes pretty much ruin the game for me. Luckily, I still have a couple copies of the original.

@Isu:
What?!?? Dude.

The sprite cutscenes were well done for the time, because they never reused sprites and made custom animations for any situation called for.

But I'm sure you've seen the new cutscenes. How can you not like the new cutscenes? It's not your usual tired bishounen-dolly Square cutscenes. I'd be ecstatic if the entire game looked like that.

@ ABG:
I recommended FSN not because it coincides with your stated interests, but because of this discussion. It's shonen, but IMO not the average shonen (such as snorefests like Trinity Blood or Bouso Renkin). It's not perfect (Mushishi is). You might like it.

not your usual tired bishounen-dolly Square cutscenes.

No, instead it's your usual tired lets use cheap "paint" filters to hide the poor animation cutscenes Square's been using on their remakes and side properties for the past several years. It also doesn't help that the visual style they are going for in the cutscenes doesn't match the visual style of the game. Perhaps if they HAD remade the entire game to fit that style (like in Romancing SaGa), I wouldn't find it as offensive.

I got this game on Friday.

And, ever since I started playing it, I can't stop thinking about it.

isukun
No, instead it's your usual tired lets use cheap "paint" filters to hide the poor animation cutscenes Square's been using on their remakes and side properties for the past several years. It also doesn't help that the visual style they are going for in the cutscenes doesn't match the visual style of the game. Perhaps if they HAD remade the entire game to fit that style (like in Romancing SaGa), I wouldn't find it as offensive.

How can it be "usual" and "tired" if it's never been done before in that style? Whatever filters they used, I doubt it was cheap or easy.

I don't see how the cutscenes have animation any poorer than any other game cutscenes, outside of stupendous-budget cutscenes such as the intros for some PC games.

It doesn't match the game but it does match the game illustrations which have circulated since... when did FFT come out? Those illustrations are as synonymous with FFT as the FFT in-game sprites themselves, and obviously have much more style than sprites. We're talking about sprites here.

If the cutscenes looked like typical Square cutscenes such as for the FF remakes, then I'd agree with you. In this case, I'm glad you don't the design decisions for Square.

LIZARD_B1TE
I got this game on Friday.

And, ever since I started playing it, I can't stop thinking about it.

Addictive as hell? Good, now I'll have something to do with my PSP besides Monster Hunter Freedom and porn.

How can it be "usual" and "tired" if it's never been done before in that style? Whatever filters they used, I doubt it was cheap or easy.

It can be "usual" and "tired" because they have done multiple games in that style with those or similar filters. And I know for a fact that those filters are not hard to implement, I see similar ones used all the time in low level student projects. Square frequently uses them when they want to mask lackluster models and animation. From what I've seen of the new tactics, that's no exception here.

It doesn't match the game but it does match the game illustrations which have circulated since... when did FFT come out? Those illustrations are as synonymous with FFT as the FFT in-game sprites themselves, and obviously have much more style than sprites. We're talking about sprites here.

Gotta disagree with everything in that. The illustrations are recognizable to some in the fan community, but are in no way as synonymous with the game as the in game graphics. In addition, the look sqaure is going for is a poor representation of the illustrations. The originals used darker hatching for subtle shadows and detail work. The new tactics uses more random crosshatching that is lightened and fades in and out to represent all shading along with darker lines to give some elements texture. None of it really follows the style of the original art, though. The models, themselves, are a better prepresentation of the illustration than the filters and texture work, but those are too bland to stand on their own in the cutscenes. As I have stated before, filters like this are often used by Square to mask these things. As for having more style, that's a matter of opinion. I see cheap shit like this all the time, so it doesn't strike me as being particularly stylish. Apart from a few rare exceptions, however, you don't see a lot of developers making games with fully sprite-animated cutscenes that don't simply reuse mostly in-game animation.

isukun
It can be "usual" and "tired" because they have done multiple games in that style with those or similar filters.

Please name some of these games. I'd love to see more of these "student-level filter effects." Hey maybe you'll get me to grow to hate them too.

Someone
Gotta disagree with everything in that. The illustrations are recognizable to some in the fan community, but are in no way as synonymous with the game as the in game graphics.

LOL, "some." I can't prove this so we'll just disagree. I just gotta say Square doesn't make games only for USA.

Someone
In addition, the look sqaure is going for is a poor representation of the illustrations. The originals used darker hatching for subtle shadows and detail work. The new tactics uses more random crosshatching that is lightened and fades in and out to represent all shading along with darker lines to give some elements texture. None of it really follows the style of the original art, though.

That is true. But there's no real way to translate FFT art precisely into 3D yet. You're asking for 3D to look as warm and hand-drawn as hand-drawn art. And if it can't, you call it poor?

Someone
The models, themselves, are a better prepresentation of the illustration than the filters and texture work, but those are too bland to stand on their own in the cutscenes.

Well, without the filters, they'd kinda look like the PS1 FFT intro, wouldn't they? But then so would the hand-drawn art, without the hatching and detail work.

Apart from a few rare exceptions, however, you don't see a lot of developers making games with fully sprite-animated cutscenes that don't simply reuse mostly in-game animation.

AFAIC, sprites which take up a total of 40 pixels... their days are done. I'd like to see more examples of these cheap shit filters being used in lackluster Square games. Please point me to some.

Please name some of these games. I'd love to see more of these "student-level filter effects." Hey maybe you'll get me to grow to hate them too.

First off, it isn't so much that I hate the filters. I just hate when they are used as a substitute for decent texturing, something that could have brought the models in the cutscenes much closer to the illustrated style. As for other games that use similar filters, I already mentioned Romancing SaGa for the PS2. Early renders for Dawn of Mana also used a similar filter, but Square evidently felt it was a better idea to suck it up and make some decent textures instead. There are a couple more that come to mind, but the titles aren't coming to me at the moment and gamefaqs doesn't seem to be working.

LOL, "some." I can't prove this so we'll just disagree. I just gotta say Square doesn't make games only for USA.

No, their target audience tends to be Japan, but the original was hardly a system seller, even over there. The new one got a little better reception, but not by much. This would probably explain why they felt the need to add voice acting for the US release. Square has been trying very hard to be an international publisher ever since FFVII proved there was a market for RPGs in the US, after all.

But there's no real way to translate FFT art precisely into 3D yet.

Not true. Hell, I've seen better attempts in in game cutscenes with games like Berserk for the PS2. We're talking prerendered cutscenes here, there is no upward limit of what you can and cannot do, just a lack of ingenuity.

AFAIC, sprites which take up a total of 40 pixels... their days are done.

You might want to sell that DS now, then and save yourself from being "behind the times".

Someone
As for other games that use similar filters, I already mentioned Romancing SaGa for the PS2. Early renders for Dawn of Mana also used a similar filter, but Square evidently felt it was a better idea to suck it up and make some decent textures instead.

I'll check those out to see what you've been talking about.

Someone
No, their target audience tends to be Japan, but the original was hardly a system seller, even over there.

Wow, too convoluted for even them Jpnese folks LOL.

Someone
You might want to sell that DS now, then and save yourself from being "behind the times".

DS? That Nintendo handheld? I don't play portable games as a rule. Never have never will.

However you want to defend pixelly sprites, AFAIC they're no longer defensible. It's like telling ppl they don't know video games unless they played Pong.

However you want to defend pixelly sprites, AFAIC they're no longer defensible. It's like telling ppl they don't know video games unless they played Pong.

And yet, quite a few sprite based games are still very popular, even on the consoles. Companies like NIS and Gust are still using "pixelly sprites" even in their next gen games. I don't doubt for a second that Disgaea 3 or the next Atelier/Ar Tonelico game will sell well, though. One of the biggest draws to Gusts games were that they were sprite based.

isukun
And yet, quite a few sprite based games are still very popular, even on the consoles. Companies like NIS and Gust are still using "pixelly sprites" even in their next gen games. I don't doubt for a second that Disgaea 3 or the next Atelier/Ar Tonelico game will sell well, though. One of the biggest draws to Gusts games were that they were sprite based.

I like sprite games. No, I love sprite games. Provided it's sprites like Princess Crown. Or KOF. FFT sprites are practically like FF1 sprites.

Even that's good enough for game purposes, because it's like playing chess when playing FFT and you don't need detailed sprites for chess. But that doesn't mean that a cutscene with chess pieces is somehow timeless.