I'll try not to make this long winded so I'll quickly explain the good and the bad.

GOOD
-The translation is BEAUTIFUL. Almost every line of dialog is different from the original yet it's been rewritten to actually make sense. In fact, the new translation actually expands on characters more than it did with the original; Argath (once Algus) speaks with a lisp and he's more of an arrogant 2nd class priss moreso than he was in the first game which made him come off as a scheming noble. Delita seems more cold and distant yet at the same time he's on the border of near insanity as he often talks to himself. They made Gaffgarion more of an A-hole than he originally was and Agrias is a lot less uptight. Miluda's actual goal is represented more clear and Wiegraf's hatred over the nobles is filled with a lot more vice.

Overall, the game's story has been heightened three fold. There are no good guys in this game; everyone is just looking out for themselves amidst a dirty war which is a breath of fresh air from SAVING TEH WOLRD!1 Delita is still one of my favorite Final Fantasy villains and all the side characters that Tactics threw at you are much more enjoyable and memorable including Rafa and Malak who don't SUCK so much this time around.

-The game is harder. They dropped the EASY MODE crap from the english release and made all the job classes have their original Japanese jp score. There are new classes like the Death Knight (Gaffgarion is classified as Fell Knight to differentiate himself from everyone else), Onion Knight (yay FF3j reference) and there are also a small handful of new crossover characters like Luso from Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2 (which isn't even out yet) and Balthier from Final Fantasy 12. Cloud is still here...

-The new job qualifications (which are actually the old Japanese quals) are much more strict, but given the difficulty leveling up or taking side jobs is much more prevelant than it once was. Velius is still ridiculously difficult.

-There are new CG cinemas... but they're not all flash like the standard Square cinematics. Instead, they use a cel-shaded hand painted look that makes the scenes look like they're animated renaissance paintings. It's a really neat effect and there are quite a lot of cinemas for major story points so it's not like a cheap gimmick. There is voice acting in the cinemas, and Square picked mighty fine voice actors to fit the role. The textures are now hi-res and anti-aliased. All other graphics are the same.

-The music has been remixed with an actual orchestra. You can hear instruments and such now which is a welcome addition.

-There are smaller yet welcome changes such as the SLOW AS HECK text during the prologue and chapter 1 has been fixed to run at normal speed.

THE BAD

-The game has some slowdown... which I don't understand. It's nowhere near as bad as the Japanese version but it's baffling. There's very little loading times in the game (about 1-2 seconds between scenes), the game runs FASTER than the ps1 version, but whenever you use a special skill that causes the screen to darken (like Gaffgarion's dark sword or Agrias' Judgement Sword) the game stutters for about 1-2 seconds. It's nothing game breaking and I don't notice it as much, but it is annoying and strange when the rest of the game is flawless.

-The sound effects were emulated... poorly. Rather than remix the sound effects like they did the music, Square simply ported them over. While they aren't terrible, some sound effects like the dying "scream" and item "confirmation" sound louder and more distorted than they should be.


My Opinion

If you missed Final Fantasy Tactics for the PS1, then get this. If you loved Final Fantasy 12, then get this. If you want one of Square's most professional, dark, and realistic stories then by all means get this. FFT had one of my favorite video game tales ever and now that it's been remade, I had more fun playing through it a second time then I did the first. The odd slowdown and distorted sound effects are minor annoyances in an otherwise fantastic package.

And I hear Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced 2 more than makes up for FFTA's embarassment.

I'm glad to hear it's turned out as good as I had hoped. Not without flaws, but at least they aren't hellishly bad. I'm a HUGE fan of Tactics. I go so far as to say it's my favorite game of all time, so the PSP remake sounds orgasmic.

Thank God it's mah' birfday. :D

angry_black_guy
Argath (once Algus) speaks with a lisp and he's more of an arrogant 2nd class priss moreso than he was in the first game which made him come off as a scheming noble. Delita seems more cold and distant yet at the same time he's on the border of near insanity as he often talks to himself. They made Gaffgarion more of an A-hole than he originally was and Agrias is a lot less uptight. Miluda's actual goal is represented more clear and Wiegraf's hatred over the nobles is filled with a lot more vice.

Hmm, maybe that's just your impression but I don't see the above as anything good. I liked FFT because everything felt realistic in a historical romance sorta way and no character felt like they just jumped out of a Saturday cartoon.

I especially don't like what you said about Delita above. You mean they caricatured him?

Delita is still one of my favorite Final Fantasy villains

I never saw him as a villain. In fact he wasn't even an antagonist in the story, as his machinations never came into direct conflict with Ramza. I saw him as a tragic hero; he found the price he had to pay when he chose the ends over the means. And the consequences weren't something preachy such as "OMG see now you've succumbed to the Dark Side," but more something realistic such as "this is just what happens in real life when you choose to be this kind of person, even when you succeed magnificently; you can't have everything." This principle makes no distinctions between hero and villain.

-The game is harder. They dropped the EASY MODE crap from the english release

There was an "Easy Mode" in the NA release on PS1?? Do you mean The Cid?

-There are new CG cinemas... but they're not all flash like the standard Square cinematics. Instead, they use a cel-shaded hand painted look that makes the scenes look like they're animated renaissance paintings.

Screw FF7, I want an entire movie in this style. That'd rock.

I hate the PSP, but seriously...

My kingdom for a psp emulator. I refuse to buy or even if it was given to me, to play one of the worst hand held consoles ever. Even if one of my most favorite of favorite games is on it. The damn thing hurt my hands and the analog nub never worked right for me. I was not a fan of that. Plus with an emulator, I could give myself the unique guys at the start of the game if I wanted. I could set it up to give me a team of guys specializing in only one class (mimes even), or stuff like that. Its a great game that I love and have a respect for. Out of the Final Fantasy games, Tactics is the best.

FFT is one of the best games ever. A translation thats not all spoony bastardized and all over the place, MORE difficulty, and MORE classes, MORE unique characters, how can you not love that?

You say Delita was a villain? He was clearly doing what he thought was right. Not that Wiegref or the other characters weren't doing what they believed in. From the point of view the game presents you with, the REAl history of the world of Ivalice as perceived by Ramza, Delita is your friend or at least acquaintance throughout the game. He's doing his own thing and you're doing yours, but you don't fight him and he doesn't fight you. Unless I've forgotten some key plot battle towards the end. He was changed by his sisters death at the ed of that first chapter and thats what motivated him to do what he did. I remember almost nothing from that fourth chapter, last few times I played the game over a year ago, I just did random battles over and over in that fourth chapter. I beat it when it first came out and I've completed it with maxed out mimes and calculators a few times over.

What teams did you guys like the best? And no one pick the thundergod, he breaks the game. Still fun to use. I could discuss team tactics all fucking day. Not played the game in almost a year, but my favorite stuff without getting too specific (although I probably can remember specific names)

Ramza - Squire
random guy - knight with maxed out monk/ninja stuff
random guy - ninja with maxed out time magic
random guy - priest with maxed out calculator magic, all the magic attack boosts I can throw on them

@ Marine:

Agree with everything said regarding FFT and Delita. FFT is the only FF franchise game I've ever completed. Maybe I'll have another go at FF7 and see if I can triumph over game boredom this time.

Regarding gameplay... I made the mistake of trying to train the plot characters and use them on my team. OMG they suck. All of them (except Cid). By the time I regretted this and started training my random charas again, it was Act 3 and I was way behind in power. That's why Cid provided me much needed stress relief; it just wasn't fun anymore when you have to reload an entire battle because ONE spell fails to work - that's how precarious all my battles were because of my weak team.

I never gave up on Agrias even after I fired everyone else; I gave her all the best loot... but she disappointed me time and again, and I finally fired her when I found The Cid.

Hmm, maybe that's just your impression but I don't see the above as anything good. I liked FFT because everything felt realistic in a historical romance sorta way and no character felt like they just jumped out of a Saturday cartoon.

Wait, making the characters more REALISTIC is a bad thing? Gaffgarion was always an asshole, Algus' translation was so terrible he didn't really have a personality, and Agrias only had a handful of lines which were "lol where's the princess!" This game actually gives them some semblance of a personality and that's a good thing. They even incorporated this sort of faux-shakespeare type dialog that makes everything seem more like a play but it's not incredibly cheesy like most games that try to do this. This is still Square's darkest, grittiest, most realistic story. All they did was flesh out the characters the way the Japanese version intended them to be.

There was an "Easy Mode" in the NA release on PS1?? Do you mean The Cid?

The NA was dumbed down for the ps1. The jp requirements were almost cut in half and some monsters were significantly weaker. Cid is still powerful, but there are other exploits in this game that you can use. Most noticeably Ramza's unique Squire abilities when mixed with the Monk class. Through the proper training and the Yell ability (which I think they renamed to Chant) you can raise his speed to the max and he moves before everyone.

And I called Delita a villain simply because he's an opposing force. As I said earlier, FFT doesn't really have any good guys or bad guys except for the Zodiac beasts. Everyone is out for themselves and there's not a single character (except maybe Olan) who's actually doing the RIGHT THING for something other than selfish reasons... which is the biggest appeal of FFT.

I've always wanted to play the original FFT, and now I can, just with better graphics, storyline, and a few less design flaws.

Thank you for pointing this out to me. I shall now go masturbate all over my PSP.

....
OK, that's it. I must get this game. no matter what

angry_black_guy
Wait, making the characters more REALISTIC is a bad thing?

The way you described it made it sound less realistic.

They even incorporated this sort of faux-shakespeare type dialog that makes everything seem more like a play

I saw this in the cutscene cinematics on Youtube. Now, is it ALL the dialogues have become like this, or is it only in the cinematics?

The NA was dumbed down for the ps1. The jp requirements were almost cut in half and some monsters were significantly weaker.

Wow, I can't see the game becoming harder. The game on the PS1 was HARD. Of course I beat it, but every significant battle took multiple tries, because if by chance your spells screw up, you're screwed no matter how perfect your chess moves were.

This just sounds like more need for grinding, which does not a fun game make. I beat the game with minimal chara levels because I avoided grinding.

And I called Delita a villain simply because he's an opposing force.

That's just it. He wasn't even an opposing force, unless me and Marine have forgotten some details. That's a compliment btw, because...

Someone
As I said earlier, FFT doesn't really have any good guys or bad guys

... even something like this is no big deal anymore. FFT goes deeper than that.

The way you described it made it sound less realistic.

All the characters have actual distinctive personalities, now. If that makes them unrealistic then I guess they're unrealistic. For example, Gaffgarion (who's more awesome than he ever was) has this bitterly sarcastic tone in his voice but he's incredibly polite and one of my favorite lines from him is "Mayhap bowed heads would less offend" when Agrias scolds him for doing his job. I think in the ps1 version, he said something along the lines of "My apologies, but I don't get paid to be polite" which just made him sound completely generic.

I saw this in the cutscene cinematics on Youtube. Now, is it ALL the dialogues have become like this, or is it only in the cinematics?

It's not abused to the point of making dialog unreadable if that's what you're thinking. The characters will sometimes use archaic words like verily, ser (instead of sir), thee, or hither.

Wow, I can't see the game becoming harder. The game on the PS1 was HARD. Of course I beat it, but every significant battle took multiple tries, because if by chance your spells screw up, you're screwed no matter how perfect your chess moves were.

Tactics was only difficult if you didn't take advantage of the jobs assigned to you in bars. I very rarely fought outside of story battles, but I almost always assigned my useless characters to jobs so they would bring in extra gold and items. There were some battles that were just downright DIFFICULT like Gaffgarion, fighting those summoners in the beginning of Chapter 2, Velius or the Count vampire and his two ninjas. Those required some extra leveling, but I only ever fought about 6 or 7 battles just for gaining strength.

That's just it. He wasn't even an opposing force,

Considering almost all of his decisions hindered Ramza's quest or put him in immediate danger, I think he was a pretty big opposing force. He united a country and was declared a hero, but he manipulated everyone and assassinated a lot of people to get there and his actions almost always had a negative effect on the party. That's pretty opposing if you ask me.

And then he turns around and kills a major character at the end of the game because they threatened to expose him. Being a villain doesn't mean you're an antagonist; that award goes to Altima. Delita wasn't the game's antagonist per se, but you can't deny that he didn't do heinous and villaineous things. Delita WAS evil; he used people, he killed people for power, and he manipulated countries. He was a hero, yes, but a hero is a completely subjective term and doesn't instantly mean good. I'm sure you've read Greek or Roman myths; Odyseus was a hero but his arrogance cost the lives of all of his sailors and his son killed a 100 or so suitors that were trying to marry his wife.

Someone
one of my favorite lines from him is "Mayhap bowed heads would less offend" when Agrias scolds him for doing his job.

When you put it that way, it does sound awesome.

Someone
It's not abused to the point of making dialog unreadable if that's what you're thinking. The characters will sometimes use archaic words like verily, ser (instead of sir), thee, or hither.

Oh no, what I'm thinking is "even more awesome," considering that's exactly what I do for my comic, except I don't give a damn (ok, maybe I give a little) if authenticity makes me unreadable.

Tactics was only difficult if you didn't take advantage of the jobs assigned to you in bars.

I don't remember the specifics anymore. But I'm by no means a TBS novice, and in my recollection FFT was a hardcore game prior to getting Cid.

Someone
Considering almost all of his decisions hindered Ramza's quest or put him in immediate danger, I think he was a pretty big opposing force.

I don't remember all details. But I don't think anything he did was for the expressed intention of countering Ramza. Delita had his hand in many events, out of his own necessity, and because Ramza was butting his head into everything, he gets mixed up in it.

And in the end, nothing Ramza did hurt Delita in any way. That's because Delita's goals were never truly opposed to Ramza's.

Someone
He united a country and was declared a hero, but he manipulated everyone and assassinated a lot of people to get there and his actions almost always had a negative effect on the party.

His methods were utilitarian, not villainous. And his actions had broad-ranging effects, and would certainly affect a party bent on sticking its nose into everything.

Someone
Delita wasn't the game's antagonist per se, but you can't deny that he didn't do heinous and villaineous things. Delita WAS evil; he used people, he killed people for power, and he manipulated countries.

I do deny that he was villainous/evil. After he finally came to power, what happened? IIRC, peace and prosperity came to the land, and he's recorded as a savior hero king in history. The fact of civil war is that you kill the bastards that you have to kill, to build the future you hold in your dreams.

Someone
He was a hero, yes, but a hero is a completely subjective term and doesn't instantly mean good.

You'd have to define good. By your terms, most of history's wartime leaders are evil.

Odyseus was a hero but his arrogance cost the lives of all of his sailors and his son killed a 100 or so suitors that were trying to marry his wife.

Yes, human flaws and limitations =/= evil.

I consider anyone who commits selfish acts regardless of who gets in the way or kills in any event except self defense to be inherently evil... but I also have a vastly different opinion on the term evil. I'm in the military and I directly contribute to the deaths of others so I consider myself pretty evil. When I use the word evil, I don't necessarily mean a dark, black hearted villain with a thin moustache; I mean anyone who succumbs to their own "beast" in order to get their way.

Even after uniting the country, did you watch the scene at the end of the credits where Delita kills that major character simply to keep them from spilling his plans? Delita was a tyrant who bullied people into submission. Even though the outcome was good, the truth was still revealed (hence the whole intro thing) and I think if Tactics ever got a real sequel, it would be how the truth would end up destroying Ivalice or causing another civil war.

angry_black_guy
I consider anyone who commits selfish acts regardless of who gets in the way or kills in any event except self defense to be inherently evil...

I consider that to be looking at the world thru glasses which only show 2 colors.
In a perfect idyllic setting, your view would be correct. But we're talking about a continent in the midst of a great civil war and a religious schism which threatened to shatter both the political and cultural foundations of an entire people. A man does what he has to. He did not start the civil unrest but he's the one who ended it. You think Ramza could've done that? Without Delita's actions, Ramza's blundering exploits meant nothing. Delita killed a few and saved millions.

Someone
I'm in the military and I directly contribute to the deaths of others so I consider myself pretty evil.

Unless you made the policies, or unless you committed war crimes, I don't think so.

Someone
I mean anyone who succumbs to their own "beast" in order to get their way.

I don't think Delita succumbed to anything. He didn't think the world would turn out right if he just left it to the nobles, and rightly so. I think he's a man, of the stuff that history's made of, who knew what needed to be done, and who's not about to sit there and hope for someone else to do it.

Someone
Even after uniting the country, did you watch the scene at the end of the credits where Delita kills that major character simply to keep them from spilling his plans?

I didn't comment on this because I thought you meant the "elderly person" he killed. But are you meaning the "very last person" he killed in the game?

If you do mean the "very last person," then you've completely misunderstood that scene, a scene which is pivotal in painting Delita as a tragic hero, and in communicating the game's theme on the ultimate sacrifices of achieving one's ideals.

Someone
Delita was a tyrant who bullied people into submission.

If he had god powers, could snap his fingers and everything turns out right, without anybody dying, then he would've done that. But he's only human. He can only do what he has to do, as a human. Understanding that "very last scene" would tell you that.

I think if Tactics ever got a real sequel, it would be how the truth would end up destroying Ivalice or causing another civil war.

Yes the truth of what Ramza did would destroy Ivalice's foundations, because those truths concern the lies which have been used to control the populace. But Delita is secure, because his truths concern only the nobility, and you imagine the nobles to be far better ppl than they are if you think a few truths would faze them.

I didn't comment on this because I thought you meant the "elderly person" he killed. But are you meaning the "very last person" he killed in the game?

If you do mean the "very last person," then you've completely misunderstood that scene, a scene which is pivotal in painting Delita as a tragic hero, and in communicating the game's theme on the ultimate sacrifices of achieving one's ideals.

Misunderstood what? The word sacrifice (although from what I hear, that scene's dialog was completely redone to actually make sense instead of having Delita oddly trail off on the end followed by 30 elipses...............)? I guess the two of us have vastly different opinions on the word sacrifice because the only person who was being "sacrificed" in that scene was the one he killed. If I was a fan of DC comics and murdered everyone at Marvel to build up an ultimate DC empire, who's being sacrificed here? Me for tarnishing my soul by killing people out of cold blood in hopes of realizing my dreams, or the poor guys who were just doing there job and happened to get in my way?

But for the sake of this topic I'm just going to agree to disagree since we're really not going anywhere with this.

No, we don't have completely different opinions on morality. We are at odds here because you misunderstand that last scene. I don't know what was changed in the PSP version, but the PS1 version was plenty clear in that last scene.

Ultimate game spoilers below:

The scene we're talking about is when Delita killed the princess, right? If I understand correctly, you think Delita went there and killed her to shut her up because she knows too much?

What really happened was Delita went there with flowers, because he wanted to give her flowers. The princess had a dagger hidden, and rushed him intending to kill him. Delita was caught off guard and defended himself, and in the struggle the dagger went into her. Delita held her in his arms as she died.

Princess tried to kill him because she knew all the dastardly deeds he had done, and so he scares the bejeesus out of her. She fears he'll eventually kill her.

Delita had no intention of harming her. He wanted to fulfill his promise to make her happy. I'm not sure if he truly loved her, but he does see her as his salvation. He knows that he did a lot of bad things, so he feels that if he can treat one person with genuine kindness and trust, then he could somehow redeem his soul. That he can prove to himself that his ideals were real, and were for the greater good.

But in the end he couldn't have that. The lesson is that to be a hero, you can't have everything. Something will always be sacrificed. This fact of life makes no distinctions between "good hero" or "evil hero."

Well in that case I did misunderstand it because I couldn't follow the scene AT ALL. Granted, it's been 9 years since I beat the game, but the way I remember it:


Delita was bringing flowers to Ovelia when she accused him of all the dastardly deeds he committed. She rushed at him (I never remember her holding a knife... whether this was a limitation because of the sprites or the angle she was standing or what) and tried to fight him and then suddenly he stabs her. As she falls over Delita says "ramza, what did you have.......................????????"


I never saw the knife. I assumed he just pulled it out of his pocket out of self defense because when the character falls over, Delita is clearly holding on the knife and you even see him thrusting with it. If that character's death was completely by accident, then yeah I can understand where you're coming from. I have a lot of dusty cobwebs in my head about the game, but that scene always came across to me as Delita trying to ignore his past and looking forwards to a bright future as the new ruler only to be accused of what he tried to leave behind him... which resulted in him accidentally killing someone out of fear.

The fact that the scene had such misleading dialog was probably a huge contributing factor.

EDIT: I found the entire game's script (ps1 version) online.


Ruins of Zeltennia Castle's Church


DELITA: Here you are... everybody's been looking for you. Today's your birthday, right? These flowers... O... Ovelia..?

OVELIA: You use everybody like that! Now, you'll kill me just like Ramza...!

DELITA: Ramza... What did you get? I...


Also, here's a video of the ending Here .

I think it's you who misunderstands it. She didn't die in his arms, he just left her on the ground. He stabbed HER after being stabbed himself (although even this is in question because there was no sound effect so it's likely she punched him or something) and then questions the friend that he used to get his way. With even more irony, he kills her after she says that he'll kill her.

We are at odds here because you misunderstand that last scene.

I still think we have two vastly different interpretations of the game and it's characters. I still think Delita was villaineous and evil regardless of his accomplishments. He's the ultimate definition of a dictator; he's willing to withold information and murder in order to maintain peace. Given the fact that the final scene was so ambigous, there's multiple interpretations but clearly you see some sort of self sacrifice or struggle, yet what I saw was Delita's bloody past and lies catching up to him.

When I beat the game, if the ending is any different, retranslated, or sheds new light on the subject I'll be sure to post about it.

FFT was not hard. It just took thought and strategy, not unlike chess. Brute force could work (power leveling and grinding) but if you use the starting job classes and do just story missions, the game is entirely beatable. Personally, I enjoyed the combat far more than the story. On my six or seven subsequant playtrhoughs of the game, I didn't care.

I liked Ramzas place in the story. He didn't care, he was trying to save his sister. Thats it.

Also whats this shit about not having bad guys? I clearly seem to remember characters like Velius who were pretty much the definition of evil. Weigrif was attempting to use Velius for his own political agenda, but thats got nothing to do with when he takes over his body. Some characters were a little more evil than others, I don't care. I just liked the idea of leveling my guys up to maximum levels and kicking every bodies ass like in that video. I attempted a solo game with Ramza and got into the middle of chapter 2 before I got bored. I've beaten the dark dungeon and gotten zodiac, I've gotten all the story characters (who contrary to opinion are useable, except rafa and malak who are useless), did the job quests to get the useless crap, theres nothing in the game that I've not done. I know it about as well as I know Ocarina of Time or Metal Gear Solid. Its the type of game if I sat down I could write the stratagy guide for and draw out detailed maps from memory. I couldn't give a shit less about the story, mostly because of a bad translation. Still a mistranslated shakespearean drama was kind of interesting. Technically, even Ramza is somewhat in a villain area since he's branded a heretic by the church. It doesn't matter. I always named Ramza something funny like Penis or Dicklick anyway, often my teams would have a theme. Everyone would be another name for poop, so you would have feces, crapper, shitty, poopie, and turds. Their motivations for battle were of little importance to me, just that I could fight in the battles.

I've attempted to get into other tactical stratagy games like Front Mission and Fire Emblem, and even tactics ogre, all were disappointments to me.

angry_black_guy
I think it's you who misunderstands it. She didn't die in his arms, he just left her on the ground. He stabbed HER after being stabbed himself (although even this is in question because there was no sound effect so it's likely she punched him or something).

The details were wrong, but in essence I didn't misunderstand that scene at all. It's still you who misunderstood it because you didn't see the 1st knife.

Did he go there with the intention to kill her? No. Did he stab first? No. Did she stab him? Most definitely yes. An armored warrior like Delita is not going to bend over, hold his stomach, and stagger around because a princess punched him in the guts.

When a warrior gets stabbed, what's going thru his mind? "I'm gonna die!" "I'm gonna pass out and this enemy will slit my throat as soon as I become weak enough!" At that point, while he could still see straight, he's going to retaliate no matter who's in front of him. Murder wasn't on his mind; self-preservation was. This is unchanged from my previous post.

I would've stabbed her too, if she stabbed me in the guts and showed no sign of stopping (her dialogue clearly showed she was hell-bent on it). That makes me a murderer?

And he definitely didn't feel accomplishment or relief after killing her. He felt regret. He asked Ramza "What did you get (out of everything)?" This also goes with my previous post.

Someone
I still think we have two vastly different interpretations of the game and it's characters.

If you still think Delita was evil, now that you know that she had a knife (and yet you try to deny it), then yes we do have different views.

Despite all that he has done, Delita genuinely wanted to make one person (not himself) happy, and in the right way. Otherwise, the entire arc regarding his sister would be pointless.

Someone
He's the ultimate definition of a dictator; he's willing to withold information and murder in order to maintain peace.

Any man who kills a bunch of squabbling nobles and brings peace and prosperity to a nation wracked in civil war and religious schism, would be touted as that nation's hero icon for the rest of time. He'll have legends written about him and toothpaste will have his Disney-ized picture on it. This holds true for every nation on Earth.

Someone
Given the fact that the final scene was so ambigous, there's multiple interpretations

What multiple interpretations? You just quoted from a FFT site and they saw the first knife as well. Maybe you want to deny it so Delita stays demonized in your mind.

Someone
but clearly you see some sort of self sacrifice or struggle, yet what I saw was Delita's bloody past and lies catching up to him.

His past catching up to him is his sacrifice. You can't be a hero, and lead a peaceful sinless life too.

I don't say this to just anybody. Because it affects my comics. But I'll let you hear it because you're cool enough: Watch the anime series Fate Stay Night.

When I beat the game, if the ending is any different, retranslated, or sheds new light on the subject I'll be sure to post about it.

Please do.

marine
Also whats this shit about not having bad guys? I clearly seem to remember characters like Velius who were pretty much the definition of evil.

Because they're just there to be bosses; they're not important to the deeper layers of the story. Replace zodiac demons with brainwashed human cultists, and you'll still have the same story.
But if Delita is removed and everything he touched along with him, then FFT turns into a POS generic "OMG demon gods I must SAVE TEH WROLD!" game (in terms of story).

Someone
I've beaten the dark dungeon and gotten zodiac, I've gotten all the story characters (who contrary to opinion are useable, except rafa and malak who are useless), did the job quests to get the useless crap, theres nothing in the game that I've not done.

That's nice. We all did that.

When one of your teammates falls down, does he die? Does dying affect him (such as, he doesn't get EXP) even if you win the battle? Because I think that's what the problem was with me; I didn't want any of them to fall down, even the new LVL.01 guy that I just brought in.

I kept his name as Ramza, though. Because I went into the game with the mindset of "I want to know his story, not mine."

What multiple interpretations? You just quoted from a FFT site and they saw the first knife as well. Maybe you want to deny it so Delita stays demonized in your mind.

I'm not denying the knife, I'm just saying what I saw. From the animation of the tiny little sprites, he grabs the knife from her hands, flips it around and then stabs her with it. He doesn't pause to think or anything, he immediately crawls away and asks to the sky "why were you so cool ramza?"

Any man who kills a bunch of squabbling nobles and brings peace and prosperity to a nation wracked in civil war and religious schism, would be touted as that nation's hero icon for the rest of time.

Yet at the same time he kept everything a secret and still dealt with the church. Remember, Olan died because of Delita as well. When he tried to bring the truth to the world, that Ramza was the real hero, he ended up being burned at the stake. It wasn't until centuries later that Alahazam (or whatever Olan's grandson's name was) discovered the "hidden" reports that he uncovers the truth to the world about Delita and what he did. This is revealed in the first 30 seconds of the game; Delita still had deals with the church to keep people in order.

That's the definition of a dictatorship if there ever was one. Hitler brought Germany out of a depression and brought peace and prosperity across the land. There's no way I can compare a man who condoned hatred and genocide to Delita, but the fact still stands that as long as you're capable of duping the public and tricking them into following you, you'll always get your way. There's no freedom of speach, religion, or expression but if we're juggling between freedom and peace then I'd gladly take freedom any day. I'd rather be free to think and speak out while living underground than being safe yet miserable.

Watch the anime series Fate Stay Night.

I had plans on anime hunting tomorrow so if I find it on DVD I'll be sure to check it out. I'm not a huge fan of anime (well, I don't like Shonen anime) but two of my favorites are Here and There, Now and Then and Kino's Journey because they both explore the same depths that Tactics did. How humans will do anything they can to scrape by and how war and struggle brings out the monster in everyone.

When one of your teammates falls down, does he die? Does dying affect him (such as, he doesn't get EXP) even if you win the battle? Because I think that's what the problem was with me; I didn't want any of them to fall down, even the new LVL.01 guy that I just brought in.

When someone dies a little timer appears above their head. They have 5 turns (or 50CT if you will) before they turn into a crystal or treasure chest and they die permanently. Characters only recieve experience through actions so simply making them wait is just as bad as dying. The only negative effect dying has is that it lowers Faith (but not permanently). You have plenty of time to resurrect them or win the battle. It's pretty difficult to go through the game without someone dying so when they did, I usually took it as a minor set back and revived them later.

Speaking of which, if you want an easier time with the game then you should learn about Faith and Brave which are two of the most annoying yet important stats in the game. Brave measures the damage you do with certain weapons, how often reaction abilities work (like counter-attack), and move-find percentages. High brave is always best, but for some reason move-find gives you common items for high brave and rare items for low brave. Having brave below 10 gives you the chicken status which causes you to run away; this works on ENEMIES too so anti-brave abilities from monsters becomes incredibly important in the harder fights.

Faith affects magic power... and at the same time magic defense. A high faith gives you higher magic attacks yet low faith gives you high magic defense... at the same time it also defends against faith based magic (I.E. healing spells) so you'll have to use items to heal people with low faith as cure spells won't work as well. Also, never get faith above 94 or else the character will leave the party to pursue a religious life. It's ridiculous, I know.

Imma join in the discussion. WHOO!

Did Delita think he was doing the right thing when he was doing this stuff?

Because in that situation I would have to say that he wasn't evil, just deluded.

Lord Shplane
Imma join in the discussion. WHOO!

Did Delita think he was doing the right thing when he was doing this stuff?

Because in that situation I would have to say that he wasn't evil, just deluded.

lol welcome to the conversation! i think you just missed about 8 pages worth of material...

Delita was disillusioned... just like almost every other character in the game. However, instead of complaining about it or joining sides, he decided to take matters into his own hands and clean up. My argument is that he's an evil anti-hero because he manipulated people, assassinated innocents (some of the people he killed deserved it, but others were simply performing their duties), and tricked Ramza (who was once his friend) into accomplishing his goals while hiding behind the church... who ironically wanted him assassinated. Mlai's argument is that he was a tragic hero because he was doing everything because he wanted a peaceful world for everyone to live in yet the only way to accomplish this was to kill and scheme because that was the only way to get by; he sacrificed his humanity/innocence in order to build a better world for tomorrow.

Right now we're arguing on his motives for killing a certain character (open the spoilers). Personally, I think he wanted to move on with his life and look forwards to a better future but the past caught up with him and the only way he could react was by ending the characters life; a sort of dark ironic twist on his past in that the solution to every problem was putting a knife in it. The fact that the after-the-credits-ending was very vague with about 4 lines of dialog didn't help either.

I did read your posts, including the spoilers. I just couldn't tell if he was like "Hey, being ruler of the planet could be cool!" and just happened to be good at it once he got there (In which case I would see him as evil), or if he was like "All this is for the greater good, even if it would be evil otherwise," (In which case I would see him as good, but crazy).

Also, I really want this game now. Hopefully I'll get enough money around Christmas* to buy it and the PS3 games I want.

*(I only ever get money on Christmas and my birthday, and I can't get a job around here because all of them are already taken here in Shithole, WV.)

Screw spoiler boxes. If anyone new is still reading at this point, I'll assume you played the game.

angry_black_guy
he grabs the knife from her hands, flips it around and then stabs her with it. He doesn't pause to think or anything,

That's why I said "warrior." It's a warrior's natural reaction. An accountant might ask "Why?!" and feebly try to run away (and get stabbed in the back).

It's like pointing a toy gun at a cop and then wondering why he shot you.

Someone
When he tried to bring the truth to the world, that Ramza was the real hero, he ended up being burned at the stake.

What greater good would revealing the Ramza Truth do for the country? Is Ramza present to take over as ruler? Is Ramza fit to rule? Are they to depose a capable king so they can have another civil war?

Someone
There's no freedom of speach, religion, or expression but if we're juggling between freedom and peace then I'd gladly take freedom any day. I'd rather be free to think and speak out while living underground than being safe yet miserable.

Of course, the reality of that idealism is Iraq.

Like I mentioned before, throughout history, the hero-kings/emperors who ended war and built a new prosperous nation... they all did it on top of the blood and bones of the old, and brooked no dissent.

Freedom is not a necessary human condition for prosperity and happiness.

Someone
I had plans on anime hunting tomorrow so if I find it on DVD I'll be sure to check it out. I'm not a huge fan of anime (well, I don't like Shonen anime) but two of my favorites are Here and There, Now and Then and Kino's Journey because they both explore the same depths that Tactics did. How humans will do anything they can to scrape by and how war and struggle brings out the monster in everyone.

Oh yes, I remember you talking about your likes some time ago. In that case, I think you'll love Mushishi. It's set up like Kino's Journey. It has lots of integral children characters, and it's about the supernatural. And critically acclaimed.

Someone
Did Delita think he was doing the right thing when he was doing this stuff?
Because in that situation I would have to say that he wasn't evil, just deluded.

He was doing the right thing. Therefore he's neither evil nor deluded.

Lord Shplane
I just couldn't tell if he was like "Hey, being ruler of the planet could be cool!" and just happened to be good at it once he got there (In which case I would see him as evil), or if he was like "All this is for the greater good, even if it would be evil otherwise," (In which case I would see him as good, but crazy).

Delita was both. FFT characters, like real ppl, are multi-faceted.

And because no one is purely good or purely evil, in the end the only way to judge a person is by the results of his actions. The results of Delita's actions is an end to war, and peace and happiness for the general citizenry. That's how he should be judged.

Why should he be categorized as evil if he wanted to be king of the world, and was good at it once he got there? That means Lincoln's evil? A lot of good white folks would be alive if he didn't let loose the dogs of war, and for the record he wasn't thinking of the black folks.

Same argument applies to the "good but crazy." Having great vision doesn't make you crazy.

Freedom is not a necessary human condition for prosperity and happiness.

But I think social and educational freedom is more important than peace and happiness and that happiness is derived from freedom itself... hence why I think Delita is evil. Nature dictates that the strong survive, this is evident in history as well. When the Europeans came over to America they started killing the natives or forcing them off their land. Could there have been a proper integration of europeans and native americans? Most likely. Could Delita have become king without corruption and stabbing people in the back? There were ways... I feel weird discussing a hypothetical situation in fiction so I'm just going to agree to disagree.

Man... what a weird opinion for someone to have that joined the military during a time of war.

And I'll add this Musishi to my list as well. Any other anime's you know that detach themselves from an actual plot and focus on the characters/environment please let me know.

mlai

mlai
And because no one is purely good or purely evil, in the end the only way to judge a person is by the results of his actions. The results of Delita's actions is an end to war, and peace and happiness for the general citizenry. That's how he should be judged.

The results of someone's actions aren't reallly a very good point to judge if someone is good or evil. It's highly possible that someone who kills their own kids to get insurance money actually ends up doing the world a favor because one of the kids would end up being one of the most evil people to ever live. This would not make that person good. Delita bringing peace and happiness wouldn't make him good unless that was his intention in the first place.

mlai
Why should he be categorized as evil if he wanted to be king of the world, and was good at it once he got there?

Because, in the situation I proposed, he killed those people and all the stuff he did for the sole reason of becoming ruler of the world (Or if it's not the world, wherever it was that he became ruler of), and not for the sake of doing something good once he got there. Being good at it doesn't make him a good guy, if being good at it was just an afterthought.

mlai
Same argument applies to the "good but crazy." Having great vision doesn't make you crazy.

I wasn't saying that him wanting to be a good ruler made him crazy. I was saying that the way he went about it made him crazy, as killing people doesn't usually make you a good guy. Then again, I'm actually starting to rething that, now that I've looked at it a bit.

angry_black_guy
But I think social and educational freedom is more important than peace and happiness and that happiness is derived from freedom itself...

I've lived in an autocracy and in a democracy, and with that I can tell you that social and educational freedom is not necessary for human happiness. Only when you already have food, water, shelter, gas, electricity, parking space, law enforcement, and a TV as big as your neighbor's, do you start to think about how freedom would make you happier.

And the 1st bomb that blows up 2 buildings 5 states away, you're ready to give all that freedom up for a promise of security.

Someone
Could Delita have become king without corruption and stabbing people in the back? There were ways...

It was a civil war. He's a nobody. How could he have become king by being a saint? Did Jesus become king? No. He was tortured to death.

And what country in history didn't rule its people by sword and faith?

Someone
Man... what a weird opinion for someone to have that joined the military during a time of war.

I think it's pretty common.

Someone
And I'll add this Musishi to my list as well. Any other anime's you know that detach themselves from an actual plot and focus on the characters/environment please let me know.

I can't think of any others off hand. But I can emphasize: You'll definitely love Mushishi. I remember all your criteria that you talked about in the past, and this is one anime you must watch. Get it from Amazon/eBay if you must.

Gamewise, based on your criteria, if you haven't already, you must play (in order of must):
1. ICO
2. Shadow of the Colossus
3. Heart of Darkness

Someone
Delita bringing peace and happiness wouldn't make him good unless that was his intention in the first place.

That is part of his intentions. He suffered greatly under the injustice of warring nobles, and so his aims can be categorized as follows:
1. Kill all these bastards.
2. Failing that, be their boss.
3. I'll make sure these bastards don't ever pull their shit again on the little ppl like they did me.

All his goals are driven by bitterness, so his methods are harsh. But if you're the little ppl, you only benefit from the results of his actions (unless you're in his way).

mlai

Someone
Delita bringing peace and happiness wouldn't make him good unless that was his intention in the first place.

That is part of his intentions. He suffered greatly under the injustice of warring nobles, and so his aims can be categorized as follows:
1. Kill all these bastards.
2. Failing that, be their boss.
3. I'll make sure these bastards don't ever pull their shit again on the little ppl like they did me.

All his goals are driven by bitterness, so his methods are harsh. But if you're the little ppl, you only benefit from the results of his actions (unless you're in his way).

lol k

Sounds like a good guy.

However, I am going to have to agree with ABG about freedom being more important than peace and happiness. Especially since having all this freedom is one of the things that makes me happy.

I dunno if he was a good guy, but he was a hero. I also can't fault the girl for stabbing him. But I personally would not have stabbed him.

Ah, what is freedom to you, really?