That clip made me think:
"Unhealthy extra fat": Bad.
Being judgemental and shallow: Good.

...but I don't give a crap about American Idol anyway.

Not that I really care about American Idol, but Jordan Sparks is not OBESE. A little overweight maybe. Here's the 2003 winner btw:

Can anyone say 'double-standard' lol!

I feel the clip and the ideas expressed there are totally meaningless. If we just want to talk about what people say on TV shows then we can move this to the media section... We don't need two forums devoted to discussing entertainment.

SpANG: Is there a double standard in how women and men are regarded in the media: yes, mostly. It's becoming more equal though.

To address Dueeast: It's irrelevant in comparison to what I see as the real issue; i.e. it's just a symptom, In the same way that the increased downloading of music is simply an inevitable consequence of increased corporate control over music publishing and the distribution channels of popular music: We focus on a symptom and not the cause of the problem.
It's a highly visible symptom, that's true, but the very fact that it's so widely spread should tell us that it's impossible to deal with on a case by case basis. People wont just "eat right" if you tell them to, they haven't yet. The way to fix it is to regulate the snack food and fast food industry, pay farmers a fairer price for their produce, raise food prices to more realistic levels, and finally: end corporate monopolies in the farming, retailing and food production industries.

Restore the balance. -pardon the pun :)

if AMERICAN idol = fat. it sure as hell wouldn't surprise me.
There are a large percent of overweight/obese people.

However, the whole idol of American idol is skewed.
Idols specifically pop idols, dont look like fat or average.
hillary duff, lindsy lohan, brittany spears -all cater to the hollywood idea of perfection. the industry is not based on talent -but looks.

so the real question is not if your fat, but if you're pretty enough.

What i dont get is why it really matters. She's fat. Poeple are fat. so what! were all told what we eat will effect are bodys. We know what we are eating (hell, we don't have a chose in this but im not getting into that) poeple make a chose to eat what they want knowing that it will make they fat. But it is there desession, let them eat the cake. Its there dession.

OO, the fast food and snack industries are already regulated. What would you propose to further regulate them? I have no problem with paying farmers more but what determines the price and what is the benefit of making food harder to get? The only overall improvement could come from improving the availability of healthy foods and strike a balance with regulating the food industries to provide good-tasting food that is healthier. A good example of self-regulation has been the trend to eliminate transfat from foods. Once it became an industry bandwagon, most of the industry got onboard; they'd look bad to their stockholders otherwise, "risking the health" of the customers.

The other matter you mentioned, corporate monopolies in industry, are complex topics worthy of discussion -- but not in this thread, I think. I say that because food is not the only source of people's weight. To use your analogy, food is a symptom, a small part of the overall equation. People gain weight from decreased activity, depression, emotional disorders, medication side effects. You could completely control the food people can obtain and some people would still get and stay fat. People can gain weight on as little as 800 calories a day, regardless of the type of food it is.

ozoneocean
I feel the clip and the ideas expressed there are totally meaningless. If we just want to talk about what people say on TV shows then we can move this to the media section... We don't need two forums devoted to discussing entertainment.

SpANG: Is there a double standard in how women and men are regarded in the media: yes, mostly. It's becoming more equal though.

To address Dueeast: It's irrelevant in comparison to what I see as the real issue; i.e. it's just a symptom, In the same way that the increased downloading of music is simply an inevitable consequence of increased corporate control over music publishing and the distribution channels of popular music: We focus on a symptom and not the cause of the problem.
It's a highly visible symptom, that's true, but the very fact that it's so widely spread should tell us that it's impossible to deal with on a case by case basis. People wont just "eat right" if you tell them to, they haven't yet. The way to fix it is to regulate the snack food and fast food industry, pay farmers a fairer price for their produce, raise food prices to more realistic levels, and finally: end corporate monopolies in the farming, retailing and food production industries.

Restore the balance. -pardon the pun :)

No, I say it's the main source. I've given examples of why this is the case. ;)
Access to cheap food is the problem. Sedentary lifestyles are nothing if we don't or are not able to consume more energy than we use. The equation is very simple. And realistically we aren't much less active than we were in the past, what's changed more are the types and the prices of high energy foods. -as I say, poorer people are the ones who are always larger in wealthy countries, even though their work tends to be more physical, this is because the kinds of food they tend to buy are worse for them: cheep fast food etc.

Regulate further? No. Regulate better.

I see it as being entirely the point of the thread (all aspects of what goes to cause the problem). Unless we want to discuss the superficiality of the media (which is pretty much a pointless topic), the thread has no other point. As I said, discussing TV shows is not the role of this forum, if we aren't prepared to tackle bigger issues here then I think we'll have to move the thread.
-You're not one of the ones that only focuses on the TV show though, which is good! :)

The issue of the growing weight of people in the west is just a small part of our problem with general overconsumption and selfish feeling of entitlement to the "good life" that we all have: "It's MY right to cheap food, Cheap electricity, cheap fuel, cheap water, cheap housing, I NEED MY WANTS!". And I don't just mean that on a personal basis, even though that's where it originates; this is the way our entire society has become skewed, industry is geared to provide for this, it's no wonder we end up suffering for it. Unless you change industry and what's available you will never change what happens to people, because our wants are pretty constant, it's just our ability to fulfil them that's not.

And I love the "selfishness is good" justifications they keep popping up from some people here: "WE MUST SATIATE OUR EVERY NEED AND WHIM FOR IT IS GOOD!" if I was a practising Christian, I'd say that was almost Satanic.

As for self regulation- this is a joke. Industry's move to make food "healthier" just means they're changing marketing tactics, nothing more. If it makes their product more saleable they'll put anything in there or take anything out, as long as you buy it just the same. It's been proved time and again the so called "healthier" alternatives don't do a thing. How many gigantic people just drink diet coke?

Man, I am really coming of as some sort of puritan, Spartan, killjoy, Taliban here... bizarre :dizzy:

OO,

Thanks for the compliment. I have absolutely no interest in the show, I leave that to others. ;) But I do have interest in this topic.

We're dancing around semantics and idealism here, which is fine. In principle, I agree with most of your ideas except the part about amount of food consumed vs. energy expended; that has been thoroughly discredited in real life examples and in scientific studies. But that does not appear to be your main interest, it's just something that you say as indisputable fact so I don't really expect you to believe me on that point. It's only a small aspect in the overall picture we're painting...and I am enjoying the painting, intellectually-speaking, btw. :)

Could there be better regulation? I'm sure it could be done. The task then becomes organizing a barebones proposal that even a politician could understand and then show that it has the support of a large number of voters. Then understand that it will face harsh attack by the lobbyists from the very industries you mentioned and understand that even if it survives the initial onslaught, the final version of the proposal will likely be a watered down version of what you originally wanted. But don't be discouraged, it's a stepping stone, somewhere to start from. You use that opportunity to press stronger legislation, since the precedent has been set. And you push from there until it becomes institutionalized. And then hope the next party in power doesn't have even stronger ties to the industry lobbyists.

What I'm saying is, what you are proposing is doable but it's a crusade, too, Mr. Spartan. It would be a lifetime battle with no guarantee of lasting success...but you know what? I've been down that road and I have my own crusades...and as long as you don't mind the price of vigilance, you can achieve your goals.

It seems American Idol has quite the double standard.
Ruban was like 260+ pounds, and he beat out a person he probably doubled in weight.

I think they just don't want a overwieght female Idol.

Someone
It seems American Idol has quite the double standard.
Ruban was like 260+ pounds, and he beat out a person he probably doubled in weight.

I think they just don't want a overwieght female Idol.

Now THAT is probably closer to the truth

If we're going to discuss the show then the thread'll have to be kicked out of D&D, locked, or your posts deleted. SOrry.

As for Dueest: WTF? SO you're saying that if I only consume 20KJ of energy in my food a day and then lie around in bed not moving for 5 days I'll get fatter than I would if I consumed 300kj a day but walked around the room twice for exercise? I looked at a study they did of astronauts and energy consumption/exercise seems pretty crucial...

I'm not starting a political campaign any time soon, one of the main things about me is the fact that I'm full of piss and wind. There's plenty of bluster and fine ideas but not too much action. SO, but not much :)
I do think it's important to try and get to the route of the ideas though rather than paddle around the edges.

OO, all I'm saying is that while the model of food consumed vs. energy spent may apply to many, it is not an absolute and there can be other factors involved that blow it out of the water. :) That's why I maintain my stance on self-esteem and encouraging health, for whoever is willing to listen/read/hear.

I'd say it applies all cases. ;)
That's how "life" functions after all. Perhaps some unusual individuals also retain extra fat reserves as well because of bizarre hormonal problems, such as might sometimes be caused by, for example, the intake of certain drugs, steroids etc ... I've seen that happen in person, and the famous Jerry Lewis was a good model of what can happen, although it doesn't change that constant model; it only adds complications.

But that said, we do not all use or store energy in the same way! Many people require far less energy to sustain themselves, because their particular genotype has evolved that way: to make the most of of energy poor surroundings. Polynesians are a good example of this, as are desert peoples in North and central America. Their bodies still run on the energy in/energy out principal just like the rest of us, but they have a lower threshold before it's stored as fat. All of us in fact would have variations on that from extreme (where we can consume very little energy to sustain us before it gets stored as fats) to the other extreme (where we must consume mountains of food each day just to survive because our bodies burn through it so fast). There are good and bad points to all those modes. :)

Taking that into account it could be argued that people who get fat easily are actually far superior to people who stay thin no matter what, since it most likely points to the fact that they use their energy more efficiently and would optimumly require much less to sustain them (if they weren't over indulging in such a way as to overburden their systems with far too much for their bodies to cope with) and could much more easily last out in leaner times.

I think what DueEast is saying is that although people who are large consume more energy than they burn up, there are other reasons why they over eat besides junk food being cheap and convenient.

Going back to my friend... she had a lot of issues. I tried to be as sympathetic as I could with them and tried to build up her self-esteem in whatever little ways I could... I just eventually felt emotionally destroyed because everything I did just couldn't help her change her ways and I had a lot of my own troubles to deal with. In the end I just had to stay away from her because I was getting dragged down so much too - I was putting so much energy into being a good supportive friend to her and getting nothing in return. She probably needed professional help and a more patient and stable friend than me but you know, who else is going to help her? Obesity is treated like a purely physical problem most of the time~ sometimes there are deep psychological causes to a person eating themselves silly.

I still think some fat people are just lazy f*ckers - but some just have no will to even bother looking after themselves. Some just feel beyond hope - "I'm never going to get thin so I should just enjoy myself". Sometimes what they eat is the only thing they can control in their lives. I've came across as an anti-fat bitch in my last few posts but I am sympathetic to stuff like this - I know what depression is like~ I don't totally understand why someone would do that to themselves but I have tried (and failed).


Talking about fast food... After thinking about this thread yesterday I wondered did they even have fast food 50 years ago? I'm talking about post-war rationing times... People had to cook what they wanted back in those days from proper ingredients - no crap additives or trans fats or anything - you got your meat from the butchers and cooked it up yourself with a few parsnips from the garden. If you wanted cake you had to cook it youself, if you could afford to use that much butter in one meal~ You probably could buy cakes and buscuits and things but they would of been comparitively expensive to those you could buy today - probably because factories weren't as efficient at mass-production as they are today.

And in those days children couldn't afford to be fussy with food - no white bread with the crusts cut off so the little dears don't have to use their jaw muscles - it was national loaf and a slither of cheese whether they liked it or not. Parents usually pass on bad eating habits to their children - either through pandering to their needs or giving them the same diet they consume themselves.


I dunno if increasing the prices of junk food would help... what would poorer people eat then? You'd have to decrease the cost of healthy foods to compensate... and either way, that doesn't mean people won't over-indulge on that. The root cause of the over-eating needs to be addressed. It's like increasing the price of cocaine so an addict can't afford it - he'll still want/need it and will do anything to get enough money for it, however drastic. :/

wyldflowa
I dunno if increasing the prices of junk food would help... what would poorer people eat then? You'd have to decrease the cost of healthy foods to compensate... and either way, that doesn't mean people won't over-indulge on that. The root cause of the over-eating needs to be addressed. It's like increasing the price of cocaine so an addict can't afford it - he'll still want/need it and will do anything to get enough money for it, however drastic. :/

That's exactly it. Increase the prices of the processed stuff. Raw foods are already priced low enough that farmers can't cope -either that or supermarkets aren't paying them enough and pocketing a lot more of the difference.

There's almost no merit in the idea that food is like addictive drugs or eating for other reasons: it's available and cheap, simple as that. If you don't accept that, look at places in the world and times in history when and where it's not and see the difference. It's that easy.

There is some merit to the idea that parents pass bad eating onto their children, but again: only because those bad foods are so plentiful and cheap.

Problems with depression over weight aren't ultimately problem of weight, they're an end problem of our cultural addictiveness to cheap food. You get the overconsumption, the inevitable increase in size of a population that eats to excess, and the resultant veneration of the few who maintain (for whatever reason) the "body beautiful", and depression in certain of the general population who see this archetype as a desirable but terribly unreachable goal because they're totally blind both to what prevents them achieving it and what makes it desirable in the first place.

Do I live in a strange, anomalous area? Every keeps saying "most Americans are fat", but I still see a lot more people who are not fat. I'm not just seeing college students anymore... my job takes me into the city, and even where I work, among people who sit at computers all day there aren't many fat people. Maybe it's just the genetics in this area or something, but I'm starting to feel a bit unfairly stereotyped, as an American.

from the clip: i dunno if that girl has any past experience looking at african american women, but they usually have larger hips.

i don't see her as fat at all, she's volumptious. no excess fat under her chin and stomach. it might just come down to people not used to seeing a volumptious woman on TV since they are just bombarded with calvin klien ads all the time with bulimic/anorexic women.

I don't think many people have said "Americans are fat", but we do agree that most people in wealthy Western countries are larger than they were 50 years ago.
(as I say, you can look at footage and photos of ordinary people -not film stars- from the last 100 years or so to do a quick survey. It's pretty easy to see the difference.)

As for the TV show Sub, this isn't really the forum for discussing TV shows.- not in such a specific sense anyway, that's what the media forum's for ;)

I honestly don't think people are larger due to a larger consumption of food, but rather consumption of food that is less nutritious, coupled with a more sedientary lifestyle. You need to eat twice as much salad to be as full as you would getting fast food or pizza, but salad has like 1/100th of the calories as fast food or pizza, or microwave dinners.

It's not volume that is making people fat, it's quality.

That girl is not fat at all. In fact, thats the type of girl who tells me she thinks shes fat and I end up arguing with her for 45 minutes because I genuinely believe that if she gets any skinnier she's going to look waifish and no longer sexy.

oz: you missed the point entirely.
i am discussing how a person's race plays into what people might think as fat

Blah, NO. When people get chunky, they get chunky. Race is a cultural construction, it doesn't exist, but if you're talking genetic inheritance, then yes, people from different parts of the world have slightly different shapes and as I've already said; they handle energy they've consumed in different ways.

kingofsnake: We're perfectly cognisant of that: All through we've talked about the amount of high energy food people consume. i.e. Kilojoules, or calories if you want to be old fashioned.

As to the girl in the clip, or Sub's pic, forget them, they're unimportant. Perception of "fatness" is of course relative, like everything else, but as we've already discussed again: people in the West are a lot larger in general than they were in the past as well as people from other countries. There is a problem with overconsumption. It's real.

The fact is, no one should ever have to exercise or diet to control their weight- Unless they're sick and can't move around normally for some reason. And yet most people in the West have to, this indicates something is wrong, and it's not hard to work out what.

What I don't like though is that we blame individuals for how they are, or that they blame things like appetite, or emotional problems... None of that would matter if a ready supply of hi kilojoule sustenance wasn't so readily available to all of us.

ozoneocean
Blah, NO. When people get chunky, they get chunky. Race is a cultural construction, it doesn't exist, but if you're talking genetic inheritance, then yes, people from different parts of the world have slightly different shapes and as I've already said; they handle energy they've consumed in different ways.

how do you define chunky?

and you don't seem to know the meaning of "race"...so let me help you.

Someone
race 1 (rs)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics

as in african race, mongoloid, cucasian who share the same type of characteristics and gentic variation which impacts thier health.

as a genetic decendant of bieng an african she has higher chances of having higher bp and diabetes..

Someone
Compared to Caucasians, African Americans have 1.8 times the rate of fatal stroke, 1.5 times the risk for fatal heart disease, and 4.2 times the rates of end-stage kidney disease. In general, about 34% of African American men and women have hypertension; it may account for over 40% of all deaths in this group.

A number of theories have addressed the reasons for this difference:

* Some studies have indicated that African Americans may have lower levels of nitric oxide and higher levels of a peptide called endothelin-1 (ET-1) than Caucasians. (Nitric oxide keeps blood vessels flexible and open and ET-1 narrows blood vessels.)
* African Americans have a higher risk for an impaired response to angiotensin (Ang II), which is a peptide important in regulating salt and water balances. (African Americans are more likely to be salt-sensitive than other groups.)

After reading through the thread,
I'm quite torn on sides myself.
Im an overwieght( hell, I'd even say scratching obese) 16 year old girl.
I do admit, I have a eating problem, but I also have to say I disagree with wlydflowa.
Not All fatties are greedy, ( though I do admit, there are those who are)

I would have to say that the issue of overwieght people being greedy is portrayed in the media. look in alot of old cartoons, they show fat people as obnoxious high pitched, and stupid. I myself, sometimes quite obnoxious ( just look at rainbow zombies, haha) but Im far from high pitched, and I am in no way stupid ( maybe at times ditzy, but not stupid)

and as for food, I agree that it is an addiction, just as addictive as booze,drugs,sex,porn. Its just a way to deal, but also feel that you should be resposible enough to deal with the addiction ( I'm currently trying to do, haha its hard)

Oh and that woman, is no way overwieght. she looks fantastic!

thats my two cents on the subject, take it or leave it.

subcultured
how do you define chunky?

I won't bother

subcultured
and you don't seem to know the meaning of "race"...so let me help you.

Someone
race 1 (rs)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics

as in african race, mongoloid, cucasian who share the same type of characteristics and gentic variation which impacts thier health.

as a genetic decendant of bieng an african she has higher chances of having higher bp and diabetes..

Yep, that was a great cultural definition mixed in with some minor stuff about genetic inheritance, like I said. Jebus Sub, don't you realise that the concept of "race" only really solidified into its current meaning in the late 19thC and then mostly as a way to separate and distinguish "white" Europeans from all the rest of humanity? The hilarious thing about it is that the correct meaning of "racism" is the belief in the very idea of "race". lol!
--the true term for "racial" discrimination being "racialism".

Yes indeeeeeed. The concept of race doesn't really exist in modern science, certainly NOT in genetics and anthropology. ;)
So let's talk no more on "my understanding" of the concept ok? I'm one of the few who seem to know that "the earth is spherical" in this regard.

And as I did say several times, just because humans aren't actually made up of different races, that does not mean that we don't have inherited differences that stem from the parts of the world our ancestors may have adapted to, and then I want on to talk about the way we handle energy.

HybridLemonade, People don't have to be greedy to be fat. They DID in times gone by, so the stereotype isn't entirely false, but in the wealthy western world high energy food is as abundant as air. Food is not really addictive, not in the way that drugs are, this is something very easy to prove, but unlike drugs you do already actually need it to survive! To become psychologically addicted to food is not as common as people think, and not really needed to make you overeat. In nature food supplies aren't always regular and guaranteed, most animals are PROGRAMMED to over eat whenever they get the chance, simply to help ensure survival. Evolution didn't have much in the way of a contingency for species when they're presented with a never-ending over-abundance.

HybridLemonade
I would have to say that the issue of overwieght people being greedy is portrayed in the media. look in alot of old cartoons, they show fat people as obnoxious high pitched, and stupid. I myself, sometimes quite obnoxious ( just look at rainbow zombies, haha) but Im far from high pitched, and I am in no way stupid ( maybe at times ditzy, but not stupid)

Known as the Oliver-Hardy Complex

HybridLemonade
and as for food, I agree that it is an addiction, just as addictive as booze,drugs,sex,porn. Its just a way to deal, but also feel that you should be resposible enough to deal with the addiction ( I'm currently trying to do, haha its hard)

Clearly you've never been addicted to methemphetamines.

Theres a big difference between a psychological dependance and a physical addiction.

Aha! At last a topic where I completely agree with OO!

The bigger issue here isn't a personal one: "Why do people make fun of me?"
It's a cultural one: "Why the heck are we all so fat?"

Unfortunately, there are all kinds of reasons 3 out of 4 people are overweight.
-We have more leisure time than ever before.
-We have more "energy saving" technologies than ever before.
-We have less of a "family centered" lifestyle than we did before.
-We have less of a boundry between work and leisure than ever before.

The biggest, single issue of the bunch that I can see is what Ozone said....Industrial Food.

When the bulk of food production was taken out of small farms and bulk-produced by mega-farms, we started waaaay outproducing the amount of food that could be consumed. The results are incredibly, incredibly cheap food produced in incredibly unhealthy environments. So what does that give us?

We have super-cheap food everywhere that doesn't mean anything to us (because it's cheap and we did nothing to get it) that is incredibly unhealthy for us to eat. Do you think that Asian Bird Flu flourished in small country farms? Do you think that Mad-Cow disease did?
Wrong.

These were animals raised from birth to death in entirely closed buildings, with barely enough room to turn around, much less act naturally. If they got sick (and who wouldn't?) they got force-fed anti-biotics and hormones.....which we get to eat! Yum!

Until folks begin to see the value of REAL food that hasn't been grown in a vault, they aren't going to care what they eat, or how much.

Ugh...scary.

-Dave

SpANG
Not that I really care about American Idol, but Jordan Sparks is not OBESE. A little overweight maybe. Here's the 2003 winner btw:

Can anyone say 'double-standard' lol!

It's because she's female, and you have male fashion designers creating size zero clothes for their models, so if you're not that thin, you don't get work. Lets get one fact clear, being too thin is just as bad aesthetically and for your health as being too fat. I mean, even I have days where I think I'm fat, but if you saw me you'd join in with everyone else screaming at me that if anything, I should be putting weight on. I blame the media.
Back to the blonde chick: "She's not a good role model because she's fat"
Also: "If she wins her manager(s) will make her lose weight"
So if she's American idol and she goes on to lose weight, won't that make her an even better role model? I mean seriously.

Okay, tough issue for me, I think I'm gonna chime in. But as I'm an overweight person who's recovering from rock-bottom self-esteem, try not to blast me if you think I'm wrong here. ;)

First, that woman is not FAT. She has a very, VERY healthy weight for a woman; curvy, voluptuous, and it is an accent of beauty on her, not a sign of unhealthiness. The blonde b**** claiming that she's "concerned for her health" and saying "I see diabetes, heart problems, etc" is her cover for her personal bigotry for anyone who doesn't live up to HER standard of beauty. Those are real problems, and weight does contribute to them, but then, the girl on American Idol is not OVERweight.

Second, I agree that being obese comes from lifestyle. Sitting around watching TV, playing around on the internet and stationary games, videogames, etc. leads to not using the energy you consume. It leads to other health problems, too. The food that's out there, like fast food and microwaveable meals, are all miserable, processed, unhealthy packages of fat that contribute. The choices we make in what we eat affects not only how much weight we gain, but our MOODS. I remember watching "Supersize me", and the man's mood deteriorated ONSCREEN. You watch him going from happy, peppy, cheerful, enthusiastic, sarcastic, to miserable, depressed, stationary, apathetic, and craving more of that rotten food. He was DYING near the end of that film, and not just for physical reasons. That crap that we feed ourselves depresses our mood and our brain, and can affect our sleep patterns, which makes things worse.

It's obvious that the best way to lose weight is to exercise and eat better food- not LESS(though too much is bad), but BETTER. And it is that simple!

But. I've struggled with my weight ever since I was 5-6 years old. I'd been teased my whole life about being chubby, then fat, then obese. I've been through so many cycles of depression and eating that I probably got dizzy. The reason people get overweight is not just because of the poor diet and activity levels. People eat when they're stressed, or unhappy, or "need to fill that hole in their heart", or to build up a shield between themselves and other people.

Some people gain weight as a subconscious excuse to distance themselves, or to not do things( "I can't do this job, it'll kill my feet to be on them so much!"). It's easier to sit back, ostrich your head in the dirt, and pretend like it'll just all go away. That's where you get the overweight people whimpering about the pain their weight causes them, and yet still wolf down huge amounts of food and crave more, and even when given the tools to eat better, still go back to their comfort food.

But there's more than enough people who are overweight and trying to get themselves to a healthy weight. They've realized that they can't breathe as well at night lying on their backs, and can't go up stairs, or can't do certain physical activities(and certainly not for very long). I don't mean people who are sorta-kinda plumper than "the rest", I mean the folks who are round, with waves of dimpled fat that swell their stomachs and butts and cheeks and neck and calves out beyond normal proportion. And these people, with their weight and emotional baggage, try to learn about better foods. They buy the low-cal, low-fat, low-flavor foods, because they think that's what's best, and eat tiny portions, and succeed in losing some weight.

Then some thin, blonde b**** comes along and tells them they need to lose weight because it's unhealthy, or that "If you wanted to lose weight, you wouldn't eat that", or some comment that takes away the power and confidence that person has started to muster, and they go back to their comfort zone: food.

Of COURSE their self-esteem should be healthier. If they were healthy in mind, their body would follow! That's part of why people get overweight in the first place. Yet, all it takes for some people to relapse is a comment intended to help, or made out of frustration because "they know someone who's overweight who won't listen".

By the way, Wyldflowa, I'm sure you meant well to your friend by trying to teach her how to eat and how to do things "right", but did she ASK you, or did you just come in and assume she needed your help? That makes a difference to if someone is able to learn what you're trying to teach. Even if you so kindly take the time to explain it to her, if she isn't ready to learn or hear it, she won't learn. It'll only hurt her pride more to have someone who looks down on her and condescends to her. Reading the way you spoke of her, I got the impression you valued her less because she was struggling with what I bet were deep, stressful problems.

And no, NOT every overweight person is shoveling food down their gullets. I myself, after putting myself in a better environment, reduced the amount of food while keeping them to normal meal sizes, improved the quality of the food I was making for myself, and eat out less often, and when I do, getting less than I did before. I stopped buying the foods that would tempt me. I avoid my Kryptonite--Doritos-- to avoid relapse. And, whenever I get one of those little comments, I remind myself that they mean well and I shouldn't be upset, or they DON'T mean well, and I shouldn't care anyway. It's not easy, what with the brainwashing my mother put me through, but I'm working on it. You know what's great? By doing this, I went from unmeasurable weight to finding out that I'm losing about 3 pounds a week, including all the walking that I'm doing. That's my little anecdote about how at LEAST one person deals with her weight. And I'm certainly not the only one; but, to look at me, or someone like me, most people would think all I do is overeat.

I think there should be a promotion to help get healthier foods, and more activity, for people: Not an unhealthy pressure push to be SKINNY OMG, but better information more available and better promoted. Overweight people need to stop making excuses and DO what CAN be SO SIMPLE. Yes, you are overweight. Yes, it IS harder. No, some people will never understand. Yes, some people will look down on you for what you are. NO, NOT EVERYONE WHO REJECTS YOU DOES IT BECAUSE OF YOUR FAT.

...Not all Americans are fat. Just the ones who go to other countries and make asses of themselves. ;) Just like not all Americans are stupid.

...Obesity IS a problem. For the person who's overweight. If ANY of you, overweight or not, feel like you need to make a comment on someone else's health, ask yourself why; are you doing them a favor? Do you think you're telling them something they don't already know? Are you just projecting your own ideals of what's "acceptable" onto someone else? ..Projecting your personal fears for yourself? ...Getting angry because, how DARE they be FAT, and EXIST, and make you feel uncomfortable? :D

Phantom Penguin
I look healthy. But I drink my own body wieght in booze every weekend.

Me Too, Oh wait, and I look Fat too.

ozoneocean
Don't hate me. Someone had to take the other side, :)

Yea, I am gonna hafta agree with you all the way.