Someone
You keep thinking TPS means you get like 3 yards of "safety zone" buffer behind your chara's back. Where are you getting this idea from???


Please tell me how this pov will give you all the time in the world to react to a horde of zombies running up behind you.
What it does do, is intuitively tell you that you're being attacked from behind-left, behind-center, behind-right, or behind-air, as soon as it is happening.

This is especially funny as most of th games mentioned have very close up camera views on the character giving you less vision than with a FPS.

Someone
No, this is bad game design inherent in FPS. Why should a game force the player to live in the shoes of a man with a neck brace, glaucoma and polyneuropathy? That's the only way a man IRL would allow a zombie to claw at him until he's half-dead, and "not notice."

Sadly there is no way around this at the moment but one I do not actually find a problem. another give away you are being attacked is the vibration function of the controller AND the red getting flashes on the screen that come up, the usually indicate where you are getting hit from too.

Mlai doesn't like FPS games, that's fine, different strokes for different folks. I mean i think all the resident evil games are a load of tripe but for some reason they are massively popular... go figure.

I haven't gotten the impression that blindsk has a beef with anything, especially third-person view. The message I'm getting is that there are some games whose gameplay mechanics cause them to function better in first person, and I totally agree with him. Especially in the cases of Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead.

mlai
No, this is bad game design inherent in FPS. Why should a game force the player to live in the shoes of a man with a neck brace, glaucoma and polyneuropathy? That's the only way a man IRL would allow a zombie to claw at him until he's half-dead, and "not notice."

I'm still cool with your personal taste in games, but I'm honestly wondering what you're expecting to happen in a first-person game. Head tracking, so when you turn your head in real life the viewpoint turns? Some sort of monitor that is seven feet long and curls around you to give you peripheral vision?

Every modern first-person game I've played has a very clear indicator that you're getting hurt. They'll either jar the screen a bit, flash it red, spatter some blood, or whatever. Not to mention audio cues. Add to that the fact that they usually have some sort of radial indicator to show you exactly what direction you're getting hurt from.

I just don't get why there is anything to debate here. Different games need different viewpoints.

Hawk
I haven't gotten the impression that blindsk has a beef with anything, especially third-person view. The message I'm getting is that there are some games whose gameplay mechanics cause them to function better in first person, and I totally agree with him. Especially in the cases of Team Fortress 2 and Left 4 Dead.

mlai
No, this is bad game design inherent in FPS. Why should a game force the player to live in the shoes of a man with a neck brace, glaucoma and polyneuropathy? That's the only way a man IRL would allow a zombie to claw at him until he's half-dead, and "not notice."

I'm still cool with your personal taste in games, but I'm honestly wondering what you're expecting to happen in a first-person game. Head tracking, so when you turn your head in real life the viewpoint turns? Some sort of monitor that is seven feet long and curls around you to give you peripheral vision?

Every modern first-person game I've played has a very clear indicator that you're getting hurt. They'll either jar the screen a bit, flash it red, spatter some blood, or whatever. Not to mention audio cues. Add to that the fact that they usually have some sort of radial indicator to show you exactly what direction you're getting hurt from.

I just don't get why there is anything to debate here. Different games need different viewpoints.

wouldn't it be dull if all games were the same... kind of like people.

3 posts off-topic because the posters decide to derail the discussion at hand.

The discussion is whether (or why) TPS is easier than FPS. Blindsk clearly said this in multiple posts. My dislike of FPS is my personal preference which ofc would leak out into my posts, but the discussion is on whether TPS is easier than FPS. And also my raised corollary on natural ease vs artificial difficulty.

Your reasons basically say FPS is easier than I make it out to be. Wow, good for you. So that means TPS isn't that much (or any) easier than FPS.

For the record, I just want to make it clear that the whole TPS vs. FPS was something I meant to apply to just Left 4 Dead. I'm not trying to bash TPS in general, nor do I think that TPS is generally less skill-based than FPS. I mean...that just seems like an extremely grey area trying to compare skill required in Counter Strike against something like Gears of War. I only used Gears of War as an example because I was trying to illustrate how you can't put Gears of War into L4D and vice versa. Just seems like apples and oranges to me.

So, sorry if there is any confusion there. I actually like both styles, in fact, it's just that certain games I prefer one style over the other. Hawk said it best, I think:

Hawk
I just don't get why there is anything to debate here. Different games need different viewpoints.

Well put. This more or less sums up what I've been trying to say.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were arguing over which one is "easier".

Sorry, I tend to be testier than usual right after reading the idiotic rants on the Grapevine forums (Newsweek online).

Right-wing nutjobs have finally found a place to be heard. The internet. Whee. Everything from the Pakistani floods to genetically-altered fish apparently are God's sign that Obama is not a real American. I swear I don't know why I read them.

Then they make fun of him by saying he should better lead a Masai village, and go do the "lion dance." Then they say they're not bigots/racist. Wow. That's in consecutive posts.

mlai
Sorry, I tend to be testier than usual right after reading the idiotic rants on the Grapevine forums (Newsweek online).

Right-wing nutjobs have finally found a place to be heard. The internet. Whee. Everything from the Pakistani floods to genetically-altered fish apparently are God's sign that Obama is not a real American. I swear I don't know why I read them.

Then they make fun of him by saying he should better lead a Masai village, and go do the "lion dance." Then they say they're not bigots/racist. Wow. That's in consecutive posts.

When you first mentioned right wing nut jobs I was going to make a point about how the internet is full of left wing nut jobs and no one see's the problem but then I read the rest and... well just wow. I really don't get people who go to any political or social extreme... but that's for a different discussion.