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Ethnic Supervillains
jalford
at 2:27AM, May 27, 2006
Yeah. There's one of the old 40s Adventure Of Superman cartoons where he goes to Japan and starts wasting their navy. This was during WWII though, so it was more of a nationality thing. Plus, since Superman is an alien, whenever he's beating up on a human(superpowered or otherwise), then that could be viewed as speciesism.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
victor_von
at 1:41PM, May 29, 2006
This is an interesting question, and I think this discussion's finally getting enough context in it that it's starting to address the question.
I'm a Southerner, and one thing I've learned is that there is not much you can do in this world that doesn't carry The Weight of History. This is especially true of race. There have been a lot of racist caricatures in comics-- even the great Will Eisner gave The Spirit Ebony White as a comic sidekick.
There is a contemporary fear of repeating the mistakes of the past, or a fear of seeming racist, take your pick. The resulting lack of minority villains is insulting in a different, less obvious way. It's an unintended consequence, but an important one. I don't mind seeing a black Nick Fury in the Ultimates, and I don't see why an Asian or Amerindian character can't transcend stereotype.
The other thing is the broader problem of status quo in comics. There's a weird history of minority characters having race as part of their gimmick. The Superfriends are the most egregious example of this-- they tried to be diverse, and gave us role models like Apache Chief. ;-P No one wants to repeat those mistakes, but changing anything in comics is hard-- even death is rarely permanent.
I think comics-- and super hero comics in particular-- will produce great minority villains in time. I also think it's a good idea to keep asking 'why not' until it happens. Magneto got mentioned earlier, and I think he's a good example as to why this is important. Sure, he's officially a bad guy, and over the years he's done some horrendous things in the pursuit of his "mutant agenda." Even so, he's a complex character, and you can't help but have some sympathy for him. He's not wrong about some things-- there are humans in the Marvel universe who want to put mutants in concentration camps. He should war against that possibility, and should be outraged that ordinary people are not outraged. Then he crosses the line, innocents die, and he feels no remorse.
He's not a hero, but his history at Auschwitz makes him something better. He's interesting. I'd like to see more of that in comics.
I'm a Southerner, and one thing I've learned is that there is not much you can do in this world that doesn't carry The Weight of History. This is especially true of race. There have been a lot of racist caricatures in comics-- even the great Will Eisner gave The Spirit Ebony White as a comic sidekick.
There is a contemporary fear of repeating the mistakes of the past, or a fear of seeming racist, take your pick. The resulting lack of minority villains is insulting in a different, less obvious way. It's an unintended consequence, but an important one. I don't mind seeing a black Nick Fury in the Ultimates, and I don't see why an Asian or Amerindian character can't transcend stereotype.
The other thing is the broader problem of status quo in comics. There's a weird history of minority characters having race as part of their gimmick. The Superfriends are the most egregious example of this-- they tried to be diverse, and gave us role models like Apache Chief. ;-P No one wants to repeat those mistakes, but changing anything in comics is hard-- even death is rarely permanent.
I think comics-- and super hero comics in particular-- will produce great minority villains in time. I also think it's a good idea to keep asking 'why not' until it happens. Magneto got mentioned earlier, and I think he's a good example as to why this is important. Sure, he's officially a bad guy, and over the years he's done some horrendous things in the pursuit of his "mutant agenda." Even so, he's a complex character, and you can't help but have some sympathy for him. He's not wrong about some things-- there are humans in the Marvel universe who want to put mutants in concentration camps. He should war against that possibility, and should be outraged that ordinary people are not outraged. Then he crosses the line, innocents die, and he feels no remorse.
He's not a hero, but his history at Auschwitz makes him something better. He's interesting. I'd like to see more of that in comics.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
ccs1989
at 3:32PM, May 29, 2006
I find it hilarious in Invincible when they parodied this. One of the Guardians of the Globe was named "Black Samson" and he was black.
But thinking of this logically, if you get to name yourself if you're a superhero, and you have a lot of pride about your race (especially if you're a minority) then might it be considered that you might put your race in your name? Just to raise the awareness that there ARE people of your race that are big shot heros?
But thinking of this logically, if you get to name yourself if you're a superhero, and you have a lot of pride about your race (especially if you're a minority) then might it be considered that you might put your race in your name? Just to raise the awareness that there ARE people of your race that are big shot heros?
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
victor_von
at 4:31PM, May 31, 2006
But thinking of this logically, if you get to name yourself if you're a superhero, and you have a lot of pride about your race (especially if you're a minority) then might it be considered that you might put your race in your name? Just to raise the awareness that there ARE people of your race that are big shot heros?
Oh, absolutely! It only becomes ridiculous when that's what 90% of the characters are doing. "Black Vulcan, this is Black Lightning, Black Goliath, Black Panther, Samurai and... Black Aquaman! What are you doing here?"
While Luke Cage may be the most jive-talkin' character of all time, as originally conceived anyway, at least he didn't call himself Soul Man or something.
Huh. I'd never realized that "Black Power Man" might've been implicit in his name, though... that's either mildy subversive or funny, maybe both.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
jalford
at 2:20AM, June 3, 2006
Check out The Museum Of Black Superheroes at http://www.blacksuperhero.com . They also have alot of black supervillains and supporting characters listed.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
victor_von
at 1:09PM, June 4, 2006
Good catch. I hadn't looked at that museum in ages.
Agents of S.H.A.F.T (http://www.shaftagents.com/ ) is an interesting page. Part comics history, part parody, it's highly political but comes out with some hilarious/disturbing ideas. Its articles on the "Undercover Brother" formula that transformed Nick Fury and Catwoman are not to be missed.
Agents of S.H.A.F.T (http://www.shaftagents.com/ ) is an interesting page. Part comics history, part parody, it's highly political but comes out with some hilarious/disturbing ideas. Its articles on the "Undercover Brother" formula that transformed Nick Fury and Catwoman are not to be missed.
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
AQua_ng
at 10:15AM, June 5, 2006
Here's something I came across while reading my paper. Batwoman is coming back, but as a lesbian. This is actually part of the drive by the American comic book industry to broaden its appeal by introducing more characters from minority groups.
Blue Beetle's going to come back, but as a Mexican teenager.
Other news, two of Marvel's black characters, Storm and Black Panther, are to marry.
Blue Beetle's going to come back, but as a Mexican teenager.
Other news, two of Marvel's black characters, Storm and Black Panther, are to marry.
K.A.L.A-dan! Brigade Captain :D
K.A.L.A.-dan forums!
last edited on July 14, 2011 10:54AM
Mimarin
at 10:59AM, June 5, 2006
Because black people only marry other black people, obviously.
Of course you will. All intelligent beings dream. Nobody knows why.
Also, tell random people they are awsome! it helps!
Also, tell random people they are awsome! it helps!
last edited on July 14, 2011 2:02PM
Inkmonkey
at 1:21PM, June 5, 2006
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:59PM
magickmaker
at 3:16PM, June 5, 2006
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:50PM
Hawk
at 5:43PM, June 5, 2006
magickmaker
I thought Storm and Logan had a thing going on...
Wolverine's like the guy at the office who's always dating another coworker. And as soon as they break it off, he sets his sights on another girl in the office.
last edited on July 14, 2011 12:45PM
jalford
at 1:35AM, June 6, 2006
I'm suprised Logan and Kitty Pryde never got it on. Guess she likes them big and hard!(her men that is.)
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
victor_von
at 3:21PM, June 6, 2006
AQua_ng
Batwoman is coming back, but as a lesbian.
A hispanic lesbian, if I'm not mistaken. I think her history is supposed to involve Gotham's other hispanic lesbian, former cop Renee Montoya.
I hope they do a good job with this. Whenever a major comic announces "Look at me! I'm being diverse!" it does make me wince a tiny bit. That doesn't mean this won't be good, though. The character looks like a badass, and "Batwoman" is a better name than "El Dorado."
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
Arson
at 5:46PM, June 7, 2006
That's it! I'll make a black, gay, but yet kickarse villain. Just for the heck of it 8D
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:02AM
ccs1989
at 6:34PM, June 7, 2006
Yeah, he can be "Diverse Man!"
Or maybe add in something more and call him "Diverse Transexual Man...OF DOOM!"
Or maybe add in something more and call him "Diverse Transexual Man...OF DOOM!"
http://ccs1989.deviantart.com
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
"If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."
-Henry David Thoreau, Walden
last edited on July 14, 2011 11:37AM
jalford
at 9:33PM, June 7, 2006
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
victor_von
at 5:25PM, June 8, 2006
last edited on July 14, 2011 4:42PM
jalford
at 1:46AM, June 11, 2006
How about "The Black Honkey"? He's a white man bestowed with all the powers of black man.
last edited on July 14, 2011 1:06PM
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