One of the biggest and longest standing complaints that you hear about American comic books is that there aren't enough non-white superheroes. But on the same front, about 95% of all supervillains are Caucasian. So you gotta wonder, why is it that only white people in comics are qualified to be supervillains? There's a few Asain ones here and there, usually Japanese like Silver Samurai, Lady Deathstrike, and Lady Shiva, but almost no African American, Latino, Native American, etc. Not to suggest that since the character isn't white that they "must" be the evil, but just that to not have hardly any non-white supervillains seems almost as racist as not having any black superheroes.

BLACKMAN

AFTER BEING BITTEN BY HIP HOP,

WAS GRANTED THE POWER OF EBONICS.

NOW HE SHALL SAVE Y'ALL FO' SHO' AND BUST OUT DA SHIZ ON CRIME YO.

It's probably just because it's typically a North American part of culture and people tend to write/draw what they know. I'm sure we'll see an increase in superhero ethnic diversity as there's more cultural mixing and whatnot.

Because no one wants to write/draw anything that might be considered politically incorrect. A black supervillain? That could be seen as racist!

I mean, how would you like it if your new comic, "Legion of Villains: Ethnic Edition" became responsible for the next big scandal/riot thing or got made a big deal about by the PC Police.

Black Manta is a Black man who decided to live under the sea to escape Honky Discrimination, and also is evil. I think he's the poster child for the movement, really.

So not having black supervillains ISN'T considered racist? That would be like saying as "black people aren't smart enough to be criminal masterminds". Heck, Kingpin in the Daredevil movie was changed to a black man(partially because they didn't want to see John Rhyes Davis as him again), but they actually did a decent job of it. Black Manta is sort of out of that equation, because only recently did they reveal that he was actual African American in the Justice mini-series. Up until then, everyone thought he was like Darth Vader or Destro, a white man wearing a large helmet that only made him sound like Barry White.

There's like 500 or so bad guys in DC, and only about 2 or 3 of them aren't white? That is so full of crap. Marvel ain't to much better, despite having a more culturally diverse roster of characters. It seems like the only time they ever have a real non-white supervillain is if they're the archenemy of a non-white superhero, like from the old Milestone comics that Static Shock came from. It's just that you'd think comic readers would be smart enough to see someone like a Japanese supervillain fighting a white supehero(even a patriotic one like Capt. America)without thinking that it's racist. If Wolverine is fighting Lady Deathstrike, does that mean Logan is a member of the KKK?

jalford
It seems like the only time they ever have a real non-white supervillain is if they're the archenemy of a non-white superhero, like from the old Milestone comics that Static Shock came from. It's just that you'd think comic readers would be smart enough to see someone like a Japanese supervillain fighting a white supehero(even a patriotic one like Capt. America)without thinking that it's racist. If Wolverine is fighting Lady Deathstrike, does that mean Logan is a member of the KKK?

yeah. it's crazy. you see people in comics beating each other up, and they're the same color, fine. but if you happened to see 5 white guys beating up an black guy then that might seem racist even though the black guy just happened to be an supervillian or something.

you see, there's a lot of people out there who's still hung up on the "race card" thing... like take my friend's friend who happens to be an legal american citizen who came from mexico. she's very hot and sexy... anyway, one time she walked into an bar full of middle-aged men, and they all looked at her.
she was like "umm... they're looking at me like I'm some dirty immigrant here to steal something!"
and my friend was like "Duh! this is a bar full of lonely middle-aged men. and you're an sexy single young woman........"
and then it sunk in for her.

there's still so many people out there that's way too senstive towards that for their own good.. so it's not any wonder why DC and even Marvel might seem a little touchy when it came to people of different races fighting each other.

The point is, that most comic readers aren't that way about things. They're more open to ethinicity, especially with aliens and dudes with green skin. So why should this play an over-dominating factor in our media?

Comics generally aren't serious literature (many, many are, but most are not), the readership can be very impressionable, that’s why you don’t have worrying things in mainstream American comics. Jebus guys, that’s why there’s no sex, nudity, rape etc, I mean, that’s the reason for the very concept of “superheros” to start with!
The simplified good Vs evil, order Vs chaos duality!
All those archetypes…

Talking about “PC” with superhero comics? Are you serious? If you want more challenging, advanced stuff there’s a surfeit available, especially in serious comics. But if you want “mainstream”, then you’ll just have to accept what it has to offer you, you get what you pay for.

-edit- I'm only talking about non European Americans as villains here obviously.
As for having other types of people as heros in mainstream American superhero comics, it depends on what the market will pay for. That's why they're mainstream.

jalford
The point is, that most comic readers aren't that way about things. They're more open to ethinicity, especially with aliens and dudes with green skin...

Nonsense. I really don't think that comic readers are more "enlightened" than the general population because of reading things like this. Plently of people that read comics are rasist. It 's total disconnect from real life, so it doesn't matter.

It's like when sesame street uses different color puppets. Even some of the 'human' looking puppets could be brown, green, or even blue. Yet, there are still tons of peole that accepted that as kids and still are bigoted today.

It's just a way to keep minority groups from complaining, so they can go back to their supporters and say, "Look what we did for YOU. This is why we need to exist!"

But it doesn't work.

...unless, of course, you've ever heard someone say, "Man, that comic book changed my whole outlook on life."

I never did. :wink:

.: SpANG! :.

What about religion-wise? Other than Magneto, can anyone think of a Jewish supervillian? Or gay. When was the last time we had a nice gay supervillian?

magickmaker
When was the last time we had a nice gay supervillian?

That doesn't make sense really, does it? Most of the old style villains were completely asexual, just like a lot of the old heroes. The sexuality never came into the picture at all.
I’m not an aficionado of comics at all in any way, I don’t know much apart from what I remember as a little kid, but from what I’ve seen recently it still doesn’t look as if mainstream comic villains are sex-mad heteros… Are they?

Anyway, you can’t break any ground or do anything new or striking by actually making a deliberately gay villain because it’s been done so many times in movies. Mainstream movies that is, from way back. Either inferred, hidden sexuality, or open. It also helps to make the villain English in American films, that way it’s easier to make them more effeminate.
Speaking of which, interestingly Ian McKellen who plays Magento in the X-Men movies is of course openly homosexual in real life.

And is it really helpful to have Jewish villains? I don’t think so, unless it’s an intelligent comment on modern Israel and the situation with the Palestinians. All you’ll have otherwise is the same old Jewish stereotypes, because Jewish people to all intents and purposes are usually exactly the same as anyone else of Euro descent, so you’ll need exaggerations to differentiate them, which will lead to charges of anti-Semitism. Which will probably be very well-warranted.

I made a character called "The White Devil" I'm not sure if he's a super hero or what, but he's a big black guy whose powers come from the devil. He has an assagram on his chest. For those of you who don't know, thats an upside down heartagram.

I think most every character in penis is some kind of mutant. The only "white" character is, if I'm not mistaken, a transvestite.

Blitz
BLACKMAN

AFTER BEING BITTEN BY HIP HOP,

WAS GRANTED THE POWER OF EBONICS.

NOW HE SHALL SAVE Y'ALL FO' SHO' AND BUST OUT DA SHIZ ON CRIME YO.

I'm stealing that, for shizzle.

FinbarReilly
1) Magnus is not a Jew. If he is, he is definitely not orthodox...

That's... kinda an important part of his character. They didn't make up that scene of a young Magneto in concentration camp just for the movie. I do agree that he's far from orthodox, and may not be particularly faithful, but he is more Jewish than he is any other religion.

I have a question...

I'm yellow and I drew white/black villains before. Is this considered racism? :shock:

Eunice P
I'm yellow and I drew white/black villains before. Is this considered racism? :shock:

No... It would depend on what the story was about anyway, and even then only if it was explicitly intending to actually be racist.
But generally I think the discussion is focussing on mainstream mass market comics and the message they send.

That’s interesting about Magneto being Jewish. But that’s not part of his villainous persona, I imagine it’s part of his character make-up, his history. That’s an intelligent usage.

That’s interesting about Magneto being Jewish. But that’s not part of his villainous persona, I imagine it’s part of his character make-up, his history. That’s an intelligent usage.

Yes, but his "character make-up" is what makes him fully rounded as a villian. It gives him purpose and action. It's not a reason for him being a super-villian, but it gives him grounds for his beliefs about mankind and that is what makes him an effective super-villian. Having a super-villian be gay would add flair to him, make him more interesting. Besides, super-villians are waaaay not asexual. For example, Dr. Doom and Sub Mariner had the hots for Sue Storm, the Beyonder for Phoenix, and pretty much every super-villian has, at some point, fell in love with Storm. A villian wouldn't be, like, in a hot pink leather outfit surrounded by pool boys or anything, but he might make one of those famous villian pick up lines on a dude from the good side.

magickmaker
Yes, but his "character make-up" is what makes him fully rounded as a villian..

Duh! That's what I was saying...
Well I'm not much of an expert on comic characters and the intricacies of their sex lives, but I do know the early ones didn't do it much. :wink:
And I still say there's nothing new in a gay baddy. It's just an old stereotype.

I know that's what you were saying. I was agreeing with you.

The early ones didn't do it much because of their stupid costumes/hair. Look at Zemo. Do you think he was getting any action?

magickmaker
I know that's what you were saying. I was agreeing with you.

The early ones didn't do it much because of their stupid costumes/hair. Look at Zemo. Do you think he was getting any action? :wink:

Course, judging by his costume, he might be the gay sterotype you were talking about... :-D

Sorry, didn't mean to double post...

Hehehehe Tripple post ^^
Ok, I agree with you too then :-D
Man, that guys flamer...

Zemo ain't gettin' no action with that X: The Eliminator mask glued on 24/7. I kinda thought Red Skull might be gay though. Something with skull-based bad guys. Skeletor is totally freakin' gay though. Gayer than He-Man! At least he's got one or two non-white guys in his crew, even though Ninjor and Jitsu are sorta like walking stereotypes.

The image macro had zero relevance and I have no tolerance for them in the first place. So I removed it. Also it was annoying.

ozoneocean
No... It would depend on what the story was about anyway, and even then only if it was explicitly intending to actually be racist.
But generally I think the discussion is focussing on mainstream mass market comics and the message they send.

Ah, okay. In Asia mass market comics, quite a few of them feature black/white villains freely without considering whether it would be viewed racist. I suppose it's partly to be blamed by the mentality of some Asian countries that "foreigners can be evil" due to past colonization and invasion.

ozoneocean
That’s interesting about Magneto being Jewish. But that’s not part of his villainous persona, I imagine it’s part of his character make-up, his history. That’s an intelligent usage.

Its interesting that you can consider him a villian. He's a villian in the sense that he is usually an enemy of the x men, but for me, he seems more like the hero of their struggle. He's like Malcom X, by any means nessary, unlike the "non violance" of other mutant groups. Ever noticed how mutants were like an allagory for racism?

Speaking of racism, blackman's my latest story arc of penis.

Someone should ask the Chinese on what they think of the Japanese concept of "evil foreigners".

Also, Magneto has a major superiority complex going. He's mainly using the notion of mutant equality as an excuse to push himself as "RULAR UF DE INTIIR YUNEVIRSSE! BWA-HA-HA-HA!"

marine
Its interesting that you can consider him a villian. He's a villian in the sense that he is usually an enemy of the x men

Yeah. I don't read the series so I'm only going by what I know peripherially... I bow to your greater knowledge on these matters.

Well I'll get back into Penis shortly! I love a new storyline :-D
I always taper off reading and commenting on DD comics when I'm really dragging my arse over a page of Pinky TA. But I'm about to finish the latest page soon so I'll be checking on all my DD faves again!
Especially Penis.

Eunice P
Ah, okay. In Asia mass market comics, quite a few of them feature black/white villains freely without considering whether it would be viewed racist. I suppose it's partly to be blamed by the mentality of some Asian countries that "foreigners can be evil" due to past colonization and invasion.

Ah! Ok. :D
I think a few older American comics used to use 'racist' stereotypes as villians... There was the old Chinese character villain Foo Man Choo. A few Russian villians too... Wasn't there "Titaniam Man" in the Iron Man series. Yeah, a lot of nasty stuff came out of the second world war with Germans always being depicted as Nazi Villains. :lol:
I'm no expert though.
Tin Tin, the famous Belgian comic (not a superhero though of course), features quite a few rather dodgey racialist sterotypes as well. All based on the ideas of the time it came from.

ozoneocean
Ah! Ok. :D
I think a few older American comics used to use 'racist' stereotypes as villians... There was the old Chinese character villain Foo Man Choo. A few Russian villians too...

I watched a classic superman cartoon this morning and it's funny to see superman do anti-Japanese protest.